Wonderland now has a surcharge with the UDP?

[firefly333]

I enjoyed wonderland. From reviews I wasnt sure I would but I had a selection of small appetizers and ordered the pork belly and really liked everything I had. Some saidmyounget more food with the short ribs but I get that free at the b2b lunch and wanted something different than I can get free. 

[ajtaylor29]

We've eaten at Wonderland twice.

my personal opinion: the venue on Symphony is beautiful,the 2 story space with a wall of glass looking out over the ship! it adds to the whole dining experience! We loved the cocktails, loved our server, enjoyed most of the dishes we tried (some more than others, of course!)

But, on Odyssey, the restaurant space is not the same, and to me it felt like just another restaurant. Dark, low ceiling, just nothing really memorable about it. Not good, not bad. But, it also contributed to us feeling, well, just not as magical and fun as we did when we dined on Symphony.

Would be dine at Wonderland again? Sure, if we are travelling with others who have never been for sure. But, if it's just me and hubby, probably not. There are so many other dining choices that i like better on the Oasis class ships.

One tip, tho - you can always go into the bar and have a drink without dining there! We did that on last Symphony cruise, and we all loved the cocktails!

[Tree_skier]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:32 AM, ocdb8r said:

Wonderland by DaDong is only found on Spectrum of the Seas (sailing in Asia) so it is indeed a separate experience....hoping they're not trying to upcharge for regular Wonderland now.

If they are it'll be a ghost town.  It always seems to be the least utilized specialty restaurant.  

[celoplyr]

On 5/9/2024 at 4:15 AM, LilBlackDress said:

The Hibachi has always had a $15 upcharge pp for the UDP 

The one time I planned on doing Hibachi for the 3 night dining package, the ship tried to tell me that it's wasn't a restaurant option for the dining packages.  That was quite annoying.  They did eventually let us eat there with the upcharge, but dude.

[firefly333]

32 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

If they are it'll be a ghost town.  It always seems to be the least utilized specialty restaurant.  

It was quite crowded on harmony when I went. I had to wait for a table. 

[LilBlackDress]

6 hours ago, Tree_skier said:

If they are it'll be a ghost town.  It always seems to be the least utilized specialty restaurant.  

Wonderland might be a ghost town on Quantum Class, but it was always full on all the Oasis Class I have been on. 
Even when we were on Symphony, the 2nd sailing after the restart (1137 pax), it was at capacity every night. We were able to get seated at very odd times. 

[PhillyFan33579]

On 5/9/2024 at 5:29 PM, bajathree said:

On a side note...Utopia did away with Wonderland all together and replaced its location on 11/12 with Giovanni's....think that may be telling for the future of Wonderland.

I realize food is very subjective, but Wonderland is my second least favorite speciality restaurant (Mason Jar is number one by a huge margin). 

[ocdb8r]

I enjoy Wonderland, but would like to see them switch up the menu occasionally as the whole point of the experience is "novelty" which is lost after you've done it a couple of times.  

 

In general I don't think RCCL refreshes their menu's as much as they should.  There is clearly a very committed and installed repeat customer base. I think they would further entrench that base if they kept things "fresh", at least at the specialty restaurants.

 

Look at the response to some of the new things on the Icon - none of these are radical departures but the slightly new offerings draw enormous response.  For example, very little in the Aquadome market is completely "new" - the sandwich station offers a slight variation of things seen in the Park Cafe and Café Promenade, the Mac&Chesse and Asian stations are repackaged Windjammer offerings and the crepe station has existed in the Windjammer at select times. 

 

I'd like to see more of this type of "innovation" from RCCL.

[bucfan2]

On 5/14/2024 at 9:29 PM, PhillyFan33579 said:

I realize food is very subjective, but Wonderland is my second least favorite speciality restaurant (Mason Jar is number one by a huge margin). 

Subjective indeed, as we love them both.

[Ocean Boy]

On 5/9/2024 at 5:29 PM, bajathree said:

On a side note...Utopia did away with Wonderland all together and replaced its location on 11/12 with Giovanni's....think that may be telling for the future of Wonderland.

The place looks creepy to me.

[PhillyFan33579]

2 hours ago, ocdb8r said:

I enjoy Wonderland, but would like to see them switch up the menu occasionally as the whole point of the experience is "novelty" which is lost after you've done it a couple of times.  

 

In general I don't think RCCL refreshes their menu's as much as they should.  There is clearly a very committed and installed repeat customer base. I think they would further entrench that base if they kept things "fresh", at least at the specialty restaurants.

 

Look at the response to some of the new things on the Icon - none of these are radical departures but the slightly new offerings draw enormous response.  For example, very little in the Aquadome market is completely "new" - the sandwich station offers a slight variation of things seen in the Park Cafe and Café Promenade, the Mac&Chesse and Asian stations are repackaged Windjammer offerings and the crepe station has existed in the Windjammer at select times. 

 

I'd like to see more of this type of "innovation" from RCCL.

I think one of the reasons people continue to cruise on RCI is because they like the product. I understand your point about keeping things fresh, but at the same time you don’t want to make too many changes to a product that is obviously working well. Like you stated, even some of the changes on Icon aren’t really changes. With people paying more to cruise on Icon than several luxury cruise lines, it would be foolish for RCI to make any significant changes with their current product in my opinion. 

[pattak619]

2 hours ago, ocdb8r said:

I enjoy Wonderland, but would like to see them switch up the menu occasionally as the whole point of the experience is "novelty" which is lost after you've done it a couple of times.  

 

In general I don't think RCCL refreshes their menu's as much as they should.  There is clearly a very committed and installed repeat customer base. I think they would further entrench that base if they kept things "fresh", at least at the specialty restaurants.

 

Look at the response to some of the new things on the Icon - none of these are radical departures but the slightly new offerings draw enormous response.  For example, very little in the Aquadome market is completely "new" - the sandwich station offers a slight variation of things seen in the Park Cafe and Café Promenade, the Mac&Chesse and Asian stations are repackaged Windjammer offerings and the crepe station has existed in the Windjammer at select times. 

 

I'd like to see more of this type of "innovation" from RCCL.

Totally agree!!!

[ocdb8r]

7 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I think one of the reasons people continue to cruise on RCI is because they like the product. I understand your point about keeping things fresh, but at the same time you don’t want to make too many changes to a product that is obviously working well. Like you stated, even some of the changes on Icon aren’t really changes. With people paying more to cruise on Icon than several luxury cruise lines, it would be foolish for RCI to make any significant changes with their current product in my opinion. 

I understand the logic, but I have two thoughts:

 

1) from my observation on these and other travel forums as well as interaction with other cruisers, the food on RCCL is the least cited reason people return.  I rarely hear that people are coming back because they just can't wait to get into Windjammer or because they had an amazing meal in the MDR.  Even including the specialty dining, other than Chops or Central Park 150, I rarely hear exultations of the food offerings.... until Icon Launched.

 

2) the "next generation" cruiser that RCCL is trying to court is much more fickle, "experience" focused (even when it comes to food) and with a shorter attention span.  Things that become "stale" will suffer with this demographic.  I also think they are more accustomed to fresher, more exotic and more sustainable ingredients than one generation older.  Simply a result of wider availability of these sorts of products compared to 20+ years ago.

 

Like I mentioned, I'm not advocating "drastic" changes...simply more "innovation" and "evolution" like what we have seen on Icon.  The main point if my argument was that RCCL doesn't need a massive new ship design to implement some of these changes more regularly.

[nferr]

On 5/13/2024 at 6:28 PM, Mum2Mercury said:

I'm with those who wouldn't mind seeing Wonderland go.  The food looks ... weird and unappealing.  Of course, we don't usually hit the Specialty Restaurants, so we're not the target audience.  

LOL.  Thanks for sharing

[nferr]

9 hours ago, bucfan2 said:

Subjective indeed, as we love them both.

 

I find the main courses at Wonderland to be really good. Some of the appetizers are kinda "strange", but that's really the whole point of it IMO. 

[PhillyFan33579]

27 minutes ago, ocdb8r said:

2) the "next generation" cruiser that RCCL is trying to court is much more fickle, "experience" focused (even when it comes to food) and with a shorter attention span.  Things that become "stale" will suffer with this demographic.  I also think they are more accustomed to fresher, more exotic and more sustainable ingredients than one generation older.  Simply a result of wider availability of these sorts of products compared to 20+ years ago.

I understand your point and agree with it to a degree, but I don’t know if it applies to new cruisers. I cruise at least once a month and one thing that has really stood out to me at Top Tier events is how many new cruisers are on the current cruise (technically they are new cruisers to RCI). I would argue these new cruisers don’t have expectations on what a cruise should entail because they haven’t cruised for a long time like most posters on this site. So while I can go on a cruise and easily identify multiple cuts over the years, a new cruiser can’t do that because they have nothing to compare it to (if that makes sense). 
 

EDIT: I would also argue the higher fare prices, especially on Icon, are being driven by new cruisers. The 20 or so people I cruise with often (not all at the same time) have no interest in booking Icon right now because the current prices are ridiculous. But someone new to cruising is likely to pay higher fares because they have nothing to compare it to in the past. 

Edited May 16 by PhillyFan33579

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, ocdb8r said:

I understand the logic, but I have two thoughts:

 

1) from my observation on these and other travel forums as well as interaction with other cruisers, the food on RCCL is the least cited reason people return.  I rarely hear that people are coming back because they just can't wait to get into Windjammer or because they had an amazing meal in the MDR.  Even including the specialty dining, other than Chops or Central Park 150, I rarely hear exultations of the food offerings.... until Icon Launched.

 

2) the "next generation" cruiser that RCCL is trying to court is much more fickle, "experience" focused (even when it comes to food) and with a shorter attention span.  Things that become "stale" will suffer with this demographic.  I also think they are more accustomed to fresher, more exotic and more sustainable ingredients than one generation older.  Simply a result of wider availability of these sorts of products compared to 20+ years ago.

 

Like I mentioned, I'm not advocating "drastic" changes...simply more "innovation" and "evolution" like what we have seen on Icon.  The main point if my argument was that RCCL doesn't need a massive new ship design to implement some of these changes more regularly.

If what you are saying about the "next generation" is true then the cruise lines have big problems on the horizon. Ships don't change much over their life span and the Caribbean islands most certainly don't.

 

How many cruises will they do on Icon before it becomes "stale" as you say. How many times will they go to the Caribbean before the islands also suffer the same fate?

 

RCI should court those of us who will sail the same ships to the same islands over and over again and  never feel like it is stale. 

 

I can't wait for my next Windjammer meal as I sail to the same islands that I have been to multiple times. And I'm happy to do it not on Icon with all the money RCI spent on it.

[ocdb8r]

11 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I understand your point and agree with it to a degree, but I don’t know if it applies to new cruisers. I cruise at least once a month and one thing that has really stood out to me at Top Tier events is how many new cruisers are on the current cruise (technically they are new cruisers to RCI). I would argue these new cruisers don’t have expectations on what a cruise should entail because they haven’t cruised for a long time like most posters on this site. So while I can go on a cruise and easily identify multiple cuts over the years, a new cruiser can’t do that because they have nothing to compare it to (if that makes sense). 
 

EDIT: I would also argue the higher fare prices, especially on Icon, are being driven by new cruisers. The 20 or so people I cruise with often (not all at the same time) have no interest in booking Icon right now because the current prices are ridiculous. But someone new to cruising is likely to pay higher fares because they have nothing to compare it to in the past. 

Absolutely agree, however, I don't think RCCL will retain those new people as "repeat" cruisers unless they continue to evolve the product.

 

10 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

RCI should court those of us who will sail the same ships to the same islands over and over again and  never feel like it is stale. 

 

That's a fair point, but I don't think that fits within the current trajectory of RCCL.  There simply aren't enough people like you to support the growth they want ...and to be honest, there might not be enough to keep the company viable (with NO new ships) given the amount of debt they had to take on during COVID.  Someone has got to facilitate RCCL being able to continue to pay on those debts (which go much beyond the cost of Icon). 

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, ocdb8r said:

Absolutely agree, however, I don't think RCCL will retain those new people as "repeat" cruisers unless they continue to evolve the product.

 

That's a fair point, but I don't think that fits within the current trajectory of RCCL.  There simply aren't enough people like you to support the growth they want ...and to be honest, there might not be enough to keep the company viable (with NO new ships) given the amount of debt they had to take on during COVID.  Someone has got to facilitate RCCL being able to continue to pay on those debts (which go much beyond the cost of Icon). 

So the cruise lines will have to keep building muti billion dollar cruise ships with shorter life spans in order to keep the fleet fresh. All the while further limiting the number of ports that can accommodate their behemoth size. RCI will continually have to also be upgrading their private islands. How many times will this new generation want to go to Labadee or Coco Cay before staleness sets in? 

 

I may be well off the mark but this sounds like a recipe for disaster.... except maybe for the foreign ship yards.

[PhillyFan33579]

3 hours ago, ocdb8r said:

That's a fair point, but I don't think that fits within the current trajectory of RCCL.  There simply aren't enough people like you to support the growth they want ...and to be honest, there might not be enough to keep the company viable (with NO new ships) given the amount of debt they had to take on during COVID.  Someone has got to facilitate RCCL being able to continue to pay on those debts (which go much beyond the cost of Icon). 

At a Q&A with the Captain (and other senior officers) on Odyssey last year, someone asked a question about how would RCI continue to fill their ships with several new ones on the horizon. One of the officers said 97% of people living in the USA have never been on a cruise before. Assuming that figure is correct, that is a lot of potential new customers. He didn’t go into details, but it was heavily implied that RCI wants to market themselves to them. 

[ocdb8r]

8 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

So the cruise lines will have to keep building muti billion dollar cruise ships with shorter life spans in order to keep the fleet fresh. All the while further limiting the number of ports that can accommodate their behemoth size. RCI will continually have to also be upgrading their private islands. How many times will this new generation want to go to Labadee or Coco Cay before staleness sets in? 

 

I may be well off the mark but this sounds like a recipe for disaster.... except maybe for the foreign ship yards.

I don't think this is what I suggested at all...in fact, quite the opposite.  This whole discussion evolved from a suggestion RCCL could do a better job of more regularly refreshing their Wonderland menu's.  I don't think they need to constantly be building new ships...but they may consider ways to refresh the product more regularly on existing ships.

 

Further, I explicitly said 
"The main point of my argument was that RCCL doesn't need a massive new ship design to implement some of these changes more regularly."

[Gracie115]

On 5/9/2024 at 5:29 PM, bajathree said:

On a side note...Utopia did away with Wonderland all together and replaced its location on 11/12 with Giovanni's....think that may be telling for the future of Wonderland.

 

Smart move by Royal, we didn't enjoy Wonderland, very gimmicky and food was pretty much either tasteless or unrecognizable.  Giovanni's so  much better.

[steveru621]

Like everything else in RCI's product, passengers like or dislike, and new customers or Pinnacles are all different.

 

Wonderland and the Bionic Bar are gimmicks that rely on new customers to RCI. I would prefer to see them go away.  

[firefly333]

You dont have to be a huge fan of the food to continue to cruise. I enjoy not having to cook or clean up. I love salad and it's a pain to fix so that makes me happy. Doesnt have to be super good. Just nice that I dont have to cook and clean.

 

I'd do wonderland again as a bogo at half price. 

[Vagabond Knight]

On 5/17/2024 at 4:27 PM, Gracie115 said:

 

Smart move by Royal, we didn't enjoy Wonderland, very gimmicky and food was pretty much either tasteless or unrecognizable.  Giovanni's so  much better.

 

Our opinion is that THEY should have paid US to eat that mess. I know that others seem to enjoy Wonderland, but we went away disgusted at what we'd paid for what we considered a horrible meal (if you could even call it a meal). The funny thing is, we're usually very adventurous when it comes to food but, with the exception of that marvelous chocolate globe dessert, we thoroughly regretted not being in one of the other restaurants enjoying a delicious meal. To each his own though...