Gratuity Allocation Question - Has it Changed??

[mikjr]

This is not a post about if you should or should not pay gratuities.  We have always paid using the "automatic" gratuities method, and recently started to PRE PAY our gratuities online.    BUT, recently I saw a post on another Cruise source that mentioned that ALL GRATUITIES are now pooled, and help to pay employee salaries FLEET WIDE??    Is this true??  

There used to be a distribution table, depending on your cabin type, as to where your gratuity money went:  X to your Cabin Steward; Y to MDR Servers; and Z went to everyone else.  Is this no longer the case?   When did this change??  And our gratuities go to supplement the employee's wage from Princess??    I'm not sure how I feel about that.   How does everyone else feel about this change??? 

[Bgwest]

19 minutes ago, mikjr said:

This is not a post about if you should or should not pay gratuities.  

Yet as surely as night follows day, that’s what it will become. 

[TRLD]

28 minutes ago, mikjr said:

This is not a post about if you should or should not pay gratuities.  We have always paid using the "automatic" gratuities method, and recently started to PRE PAY our gratuities online.    BUT, recently I saw a post on another Cruise source that mentioned that ALL GRATUITIES are now pooled, and help to pay employee salaries FLEET WIDE??    Is this true??  

There used to be a distribution table, depending on your cabin type, as to where your gratuity money went:  X to your Cabin Steward; Y to MDR Servers; and Z went to everyone else.  Is this no longer the case?   When did this change??  And our gratuities go to supplement the employee's wage from Princess??    I'm not sure how I feel about that.   How does everyone else feel about this change??? 

Princess went to a fleetwide pool several years ago. Well before Covid.

 

When they first went from envelopes to the automatic gratuity charge, the pool was by ship, by cruise.

 

However, the problem was that a crew could get vastly different tip amounts depending upon where the ship was stationed. For example a ship sailing out of Southampton with a higher percentage of UK passengers would usually get lower tips then a ship based in a US port. As a result some itineraries were more desirable than others. To solve that problem, to make sure that crew was not penalized by assignment, they changed to the fleetwide pool.

 

The members of the pool are basically the hotel side, both direct passenger facing such as waiters, and stewards, as well as those that support them, cooks, dishwashers, laundry, etc.

 

The people in the pool are basically the same, only the scope of pooling from ship/cruise to fleetwide.

 

The payouts from pool include base payout amounts as well as bonuses.

 

Identification of crew members in the post cruise survey is probably the most important way to make sure crew members get recognized.

 

Tips have always supplemented salary, even when they were handed out by envelops. Same as with most places where tips are normal. Tips are often a large share of income.

 

The cruise lines are US focused and the US is basically a tipping culture. There are some benefits due to US accounting law to use the tipping system, instead of going to including the amounts in the fare and paying out the same amount fully as salary.

Edited June 15 by TRLD

[Bgwest]

20 minutes ago, mikjr said:

And our gratuities go to supplement the employee's wage from Princess??    I'm not sure how I feel about that.   How does everyone else feel about this change??? 

Quite true. This is precisely why many refuse to participate in this shell game. 
Let the exchanges begin!!!

[Rick&Jeannie]

Please pass the popcorn...

 

[sunviking90]

Nooooo. Make it stop.

[cruzsnooze]

Gratuity is fleet wide and includes all revenue depts and entertainment dept as per their FAQ. It also goes to bonus' and crew parties and incentives and employee of the month which encompasses a lot more then tips to those who serve you. The amount suggested is just that a suggestion and can be changed at guest services to increase, decrease or remove at the passengers discretion. 

[mikjr]

9 hours ago, TRLD said:

Princess went to a fleetwide pool several years ago. Well before Covid.

 

 

TRLD...  thanks for this great explanation!!  I had NO CLUE this had taken place.   Not sure I really like the way it's done now...  Sounds the PAX are now doing the Cruiseline's job by supplementing the income of ALL employees and not thanking them individually for a job well done!   I wonder what the feed back from the employees has been?  Are they making more?

[azbirdmom]

There was another recent thread where this was debated extensively.  It is what it is and it's one of those things you deal with if you choose to keep your auto tip on (or have it included through the purchase of a package).

 

 

[TRLD]

2 minutes ago, mikjr said:

TRLD...  thanks for this great explanation!!  I had NO CLUE this had taken place.   Not sure I really like the way it's done now...  Sounds the PAX are now doing the Cruiseline's job by supplementing the income of ALL employees and not thanking them individually for a job well done!   I wonder what the feed back from the employees has been?  Are they making more?

From my understanding employees like the fleetwide pool because the payouts are pretty stable, and they nolonger have to worry about getting a contract to a ship based in a non tipping area.

 

Land restaurants, cruiselines, etc. pretty much anywhere that tips are expected they are and always have been a major portion of income to those positions. It is why in many states tipped positions do not have to pay minimum wage as long as the tip amounts exceed it. So not sure you seem surprised by that fact.

 

On Princess the employment contract states when an employee is part of pool. So they accept the job knowing that it is part of their compensation.

 

As I stated above there are benefits to the passengers, cruiseline, and crew under the crew appreciation system compared to the cruise line raising fares by the same amount, doing away with crew appreciation, and making it all wages. For example for passengers if it was all wages then the fare would go up by the amount that is now CA. Since it would be fare the price of travel insurance would go up accordingly. At $16 per day one could expect the cost of travel insurance to be about 80 cents per day more. That is just one example of which there are others.

[mikjr]

11 minutes ago, azbirdmom said:

There was another recent thread where this was debated extensively.  It is what it is and it's one of those things you deal with if you choose to keep your auto tip on (or have it included through the purchase of a package).

 

I tried a SEARCH to see if this had been discussed, but couldn't find it.  thanks for posting!! 

[c-boy]

...

[TRLD]

On 6/15/2024 at 8:15 AM, cruzsnooze said:

Gratuity is fleet wide and includes all revenue depts and entertainment dept as per their FAQ. It also goes to bonus' and crew parties and incentives and employee of the month which encompasses a lot more then tips to those who serve you. The amount suggested is just that a suggestion and can be changed at guest services to increase, decrease or remove at the passengers discretion. 

Not quite right.

 

It says hotel, dining and entertainment, Housekeeping, Galley and customer services and onboard revenue areas.

 

The onboard revenue areas included are those such as excursions and the events coordinator that are staffed by Princess employees. It used to include future cruise sales back when it was a Princess employees, but not since it was changed to ONE contract positions.

 

https://www.princess.com/en-us/faq/onboard-experience#:~:text=A crew appreciation is a,is based on stateroom category.

 It does not include all revenue departments.

 

Just as it does not include employees on the ship side such as engineering, maintenance, and deck hands

 

For example spa, casino, retail, future cruise sales employees are not in the program, those contract employees may be in programs under their employer that are funded in some cases by their own service charges.

Edited June 16 by TRLD

[cr8tiv1]

For those passengers who see tipping as "supplementing" salary, would they, then, NOT patronize land restaurants that also pay below minimum wages (those that rely on tips)?  Or not tip at these restaurants?

 

California is one state that has mandated minimum wages for some workers (approaching $20/hour).  Look at the price of a Big Mac meal at McDonald's.  It's close to $15.00.  

 

As @azbirdmom has so clearly stated, " It is what it is and it's one of those things you deal with if you choose to keep your auto tip on (or have it included through the purchase of a package)."

 

There is a small contingency of passengers that belabor the tipping point.  I believe in my fellow (wo)man that I'd rather have crew appreciation added on to guest folios rather than pay more for insurance and taxes if it were included.  AND I hate to pay taxes! but do.

[Mike07]

On 6/15/2024 at 2:15 PM, cruzsnooze said:

Gratuity is fleet wide and includes all revenue depts and entertainment dept as per their FAQ. It also goes to bonus' and crew parties and incentives and employee of the month which encompasses a lot more then tips to those who serve you. The amount suggested is just that a suggestion and can be changed at guest services to increase, decrease or remove at the passengers discretion. 

 

I'd be down for chipping in an extra $5 towards the cost of a private, crew party at the end of every itinerary. It would give them something to look forward to.

[TRLD]

33 minutes ago, cr8tiv1 said:

For those passengers who see tipping as "supplementing" salary, would they, then, NOT patronize land restaurants that also pay below minimum wages (those that rely on tips)?  Or not tip at these restaurants?

 

California is one state that has mandated minimum wages for some workers (approaching $20/hour).  Look at the price of a Big Mac meal at McDonald's.  It's close to $15.00.  

 

As @azbirdmom has so clearly stated, " It is what it is and it's one of those things you deal with if you choose to keep your auto tip on (or have it included through the purchase of a package)."

 

There is a small contingency of passengers that belabor the tipping point.  I believe in my fellow (wo)man that I'd rather have crew appreciation added on to guest folios rather than pay more for insurance and taxes if it were included.  AND I hate to pay taxes! but do.

Actually in most places in CA a big Mac meal is around $11. I am currently in a remote mountain tourist area and it is 11.49.

 

At home near the coast it is 10.49.

 

Can you find a McD where is is close to $15. If one is willing to search hard enough, such as in air port terminals.

 

I would suspect that the new minimum wage requirement for fast food restaurants probably adds about 10 to 20% to the prices. More of an impact is staff cuts. Many fast food places expect you to order by kiosk or by your phone and do not have anyone at in restaurant cash register unless they see someone waiting there.

 

 

Edited June 16 by TRLD

[cr8tiv1]

Thanks, I should have checked.  A Big Mac Meal is $11.19 on my app in CA.  It is actually cheaper in Honolulu at $10.69.

 

But ran into this article...

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/20/mcdonalds-big-mac-prices-state-by-state.html#:~:text=The most expensive Big Mac,for a comparatively cheap %243.91.

 

And yes, the Taco Bell in Honolulu went to ordering by kiosk because they did not have enough staff to man the counter.  I ended up helping someone try to order from the machine.  AND they said teachers would be replaced by robots....ha! No longer a pipe dream.  Glad I retired before this happens.

 

But let's get back to the OP.  There are many businesses that have a base fare and then add on "extras" like crew appreciation, back kitchen service fees, baggage fees for airlines, etc.  We can expect this to keep rising just like everything else.  

 

[J13C85]

Have an odd question. If a guest pays for "plus" or "premier" technically said guest does not pay gratituities (as they arevpart of the package) Does the actual money for the tipping pool come from the $60/$80 per day Princess collects for the package?

[TRLD]

48 minutes ago, J13C85 said:

Have an odd question. If a guest pays for "plus" or "premier" technically said guest does not pay gratituities (as they arevpart of the package) Does the actual money for the tipping pool come from the $60/$80 per day Princess collects for the package?

My understanding, according to a friend of mine who works for Princess finance department, an amount equivalent to the daily total for the cabin they are in  is subtracted from the package total and credited to the CA pool account. The CA is considered to be a pass through account held for the employees and is not considered to be part of the cruise line expense or revenue.

 

If Princess has a special cruise fare that includes CA (was fairly common before the packages less so now), the same process is followed and the daily amount of CA are subtracted from the fare and created to the CA pass through account.

 

So basically the amount credited is the same if some one pays the CA, or if they buy the package. The only time a lower amount goes in is if someone not on a package decides to cut the amount paid.

 

Actually because of packages, the CA has gotten more stable due to fewer opportunities for people to cut the CA. 

Edited June 17 by TRLD

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, cr8tiv1 said:

Thanks, I should have checked.  A Big Mac Meal is $11.19 on my app in CA.  It is actually cheaper in Honolulu at $10.69.

 

But ran into this article...

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/20/mcdonalds-big-mac-prices-state-by-state.html#:~:text=The most expensive Big Mac,for a comparatively cheap %243.91.

 

And yes, the Taco Bell in Honolulu went to ordering by kiosk because they did not have enough staff to man the counter.  I ended up helping someone try to order from the machine.  AND they said teachers would be replaced by robots....ha! No longer a pipe dream.  Glad I retired before this happens.

 

But let's get back to the OP.  There are many businesses that have a base fare and then add on "extras" like crew appreciation, back kitchen service fees, baggage fees for airlines, etc.  We can expect this to keep rising just like everything else.  

 

I expect you will see the non optional fees to be under increasing regulation. In some cases making sure that they are fully disclosed or in some cases included in listed price. 

 

Some Cal. restaurants started adding non optional service charges last year to cover increased  costs due to various laws. The latest law will force those increases into their base price.

 

 

However, keep in mind that CA is optional and therefore not impacted by most of the laws.

 

In the case of packaged where they can not be split out they are included in the price and the entire package is an optional purchase.

Edited June 17 by TRLD