Is Princess having a Brand/Identity crisis - your thoughts?

[Skippy]

4 hours ago, BTfan said:

I would love to just watch the branding meetings at Carnival Corp..

 

I would also love to see the marketing stats.. I think the direction of Princess would be more focus on the strengths of what people leave Princess for.

 

If people are leaving for Virgin or an Edge Class ship..then expect more modern touches.  If people are leaving for Cunard, then more traditional themes..If people are leaving for Royal, then the focus on kids while trying not to alienate the others (that would be a feat!).

 

Carnival Corp needs to have some cross loyalty benefits like Royal recently did.. Better to lose a customer to HAL vs Celebrity..and dangling loyalty perks might make the win.

That’s a bummer there’s no point sharing. We have a few carnival cruises under our belt. Will be first time princess cruisers next year. 
 

[TRLD]

34 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

As is the discussion on the thread.  Times change and tastes change.  I repeat, it’s now derogatory to call contemporary European design IKEA inspired unless the pieces are from there.  It’s pejorative to those who make furniture in that style that are leaps and bounds above the quality of IKEA and to the designers who specialize in that style.  Cruise lines would fit their new builds with this design aesthetic if it weren’t relevant to today’s tastes.

 

Passionate about this because I have a friend who specializes in contemporary European design and has outfitted many large projects including airline lounges.

As I said my use was intentional take it how ever you want to.

 

Certainly some make very good quality. Too bad the cabins I was referring too look cheap and are not that functional which is unfortunate because functionality and simplicity are normally key elements of that style.

[Iamcruzin]

11 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

My thoughts? Not very original, but...

 

The only constant is change. Everything adapts or dies, including cruise lines. You can't live in the past. You can run (to another cruise line) but not hide. You lost me at "woke".

They have no clue what woke means. Had me scratching my head. Also they dated them selves by using the term "Hip". May as well say Groovy. At 63 I think Princess skews too old for me.

Edited July 16 by Iamcruzin

[SCX22]

53 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Too bad the cabins I was referring too look cheap and are not that functional which is unfortunate because functionality and simplicity are normally key elements of that style.

I’m of the belief that Princess cabins before the Sun aren’t functional.  The closet was wasted space.  I would much rather have had sofas in lieu and not have had to upgrade to a more expensive cabin category to be furnished with one.  Unless on a long cruise, many cruisers now a days don’t really bring a lot of stuff.  Bringing less stuff when traveling is reinforced by airlines because they’ve dropped bag limits to 50 lbs and are charging for bags or wanting passengers to upgrade to a higher class to get higher baggage allowances.  It helps that many cruise lines haves done away with the tradition of formal night and is only loosely enforced on Princess, much to the dismay of some loyalists.

[Iamcruzin]

6 hours ago, BTfan said:

I would love to just watch the branding meetings at Carnival Corp..

 

I would also love to see the marketing stats.. I think the direction of Princess would be more focus on the strengths of what people leave Princess for.

 

If people are leaving for Virgin or an Edge Class ship..then expect more modern touches.  If people are leaving for Cunard, then more traditional themes..If people are leaving for Royal, then the focus on kids while trying not to alienate the others (that would be a feat!).

 

Carnival Corp needs to have some cross loyalty benefits like Royal recently did.. Better to lose a customer to HAL vs Celebrity..and dangling loyalty perks might make the win.

With All inclusive programs that the cruise lines have introduced the loyalty programs offer few if any benefits. Only those who have already reached the highest tier care about them. Millennials and Gen Z aren't brand loyal. They want the best experience at the best price. Free laundry isn't going to sway them. Free laundry is hardly a benefit since Princess has laundromats on board.  Boomers and Gen X would be the target for a loyalty program. Being a Boomer myself I can tell you I shop around for the same itinerary and go for the best price. I'm at the mid point tier on Princess, Royal and Celebrity. The benefits mean nothing. I book AI so the cocktail parties, free bar setup and discounted internet minutes mean nothing. The benefits only appeal to the  demographic that doesn't drink and only use  internet minutes to print an airline boarding pass. With remote work, unlimited internet access is something that the younger working generation is going to want and will pay for.

Edited July 16 by Iamcruzin

[MyriamS]

1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

With All inclusive programs that the cruise lines have introduced the loyalty programs offer few if any benefits. Only those who have already reached the highest tier care about them. Millennials and Gen Z aren't brand loyal. They want the best experience at the best price. Free laundry isn't going to sway them. Free laundry is hardly a benefit since Princess has laundromats on board.  Boomers and Gen X would be the target for a loyalty program. Being a Boomer myself I can tell you I shop around for the same itinerary and go for the best price. I'm at the mid point tier on Princess, Royal and Celebrity. The benefits mean nothing. I book AI so the cocktail parties, free bar setup and discounted internet minutes mean nothing. The benefits only appeal to the  demographic that doesn't drink and only use  internet minutes to print an airline boarding pass. With remote work, unlimited internet access is something that the younger working generation is going to want and will pay for.

When I first joined those forums, what surprised me was the strong brand loyalty from some posters towards a cruise line. I don't think I've seen such loyalty in the travel and leisure space before, e.g. towards an airline or hotel chain. I wonder if it's age dependent or just something specific to the cruising community. 

 

We are millennials and we are not brand loyal. My partner and I need to consider cruise price, itinerary, dates as well as the cost of flights to the cruise port since we live in Munich. Only after all of this can we potentially consider the ship or brand. I sign up to loyalty schemes but I know I will likely never benefit from them (except the 5% off discount from MSC as it is valid after your first MSC cruise). 

 

When I talked to him about this, my partner laughed and said cruise lines off all the same services anyway, so why would anyone be loyal to a single cruise line? While I don't quite agree with him, I do think people who cruise on a mainstream line would probably like other mainstream lines, premium line cruisers other premium lines, luxury cruisers other luxury lines (or luxury ship within a ship experiences) etc. It seems worth trying at least. No need to wait until your favourite line disappoints you and you leave them in a huff (which also seems very common here!).

[SCX22]

19 minutes ago, MyriamS said:

When I first joined those forums, what surprised me was the strong brand loyalty from some posters towards a cruise line. I don't think I've seen such loyalty in the travel and leisure space before, e.g. towards an airline or hotel chain. I wonder if it's age dependent or just something specific to the cruising community. 

 

You're on to something there.  I think Baby Boomers are brand loyal because they didn't have all the media growing up and don't really know how to use media at their age.  They had the news and product commercials/advertisements.  They're not used to taking to the Internet to find out about new brands.

 

I'm a Millennial that has been exposed to social media, but not like Gen Z.  I'm more open to learning about and trying new brands.  When I see something new that piques my interest, I take out my phone, open a browser, and read reviews.  If it has good reviews, I'm more willing to try it.  For travel, instead of a brochure, I'll open YouTube or TikTok and watch videos that people made in real time--the concept of influencers.  In addition read reviews left by others.  My generation was brought up with this with the introduction of the Internet.  The Baby Boomers weren't exposed to this growing up and Gen X has only recently been exposed to the trend. 

 

The Internet in general has opened up a new world.  Everything is social media now a days, and if you're not part of it or have a poor understanding of how it works, like many Baby Boomers, you're missing out.  Having said that the Internet has also had a lot of negative impacts on society in regards to the spread of misinformation.

 

I'm brand loyal to few brands.  Coca-Cola is one of them.  Not a Pepsi person at all.  Once in a while I'll have a hankering for a Dr. Pepper.  Fighting words, I know.

[Grego]

Amazing to see the amount of interest in posting to this topic.  It only started recently and there are over 5 pages of posts in response.

I will admit that there are some recent changes in direction over the last couple of years that I don't agree with only because I don't see the reason for change if it isn't broken.

Over our more than 30 years of sailing with Princess Cruises and our more than 60 voyages we have always had the attitude that this cruise line was part of our family.  We have gotten to know so many of the staff on most of the ships and are always happy to be back with them and enjoy the voyage.

For us we enjoy the thrill of embarking on our next adventure and taking advantage of all the good things that Princess does to make our journey the best we can make it.  Yeah, I don't quite get it regarding Princess getting into NASCAR and trying another Love Boat series except for their need to go after another segment of potential cruisers.  We choose to ignore this and concentrate on the good things and provide some possible solutions to the things that don't work.

Certainly our upcoming 7-day voyage on the Sun Princess is the result of what we think is a new challenge for us.  We have a 21-day booking next year on the Sun Princess and are using this short booking to get adjusted to the changes it represents.  Don't get me wrong, I do see some nice changes and new ideas that it may have, but overall I'm not that excited about the ship getting bigger and more convoluted.

All that get's to we have more reasons to stay and not a reason to leave our family at this time.......but who knows?  

[Cruisemeister2002]

18 hours ago, Globaler said:

The Carnival Corporation owns Carnival (family/kids), Holland America (older cruisers), Seabourn (luxury), Costa (budget), Aida and P&O (not sure) and then Princess (middle age, semi upscale, value). Given this line up; why is the Carnival Corporation messing with Princess by trying to appeal to everyone? 
 These are my thoughts what do you think?

The very same question has been asked of P&O. As a Brit I started cruising back in 2002 and although some point out, rightly or wrongly, that cruising has got cheaper compared with the "Old days". P&O was quite traditional but I did feel better than today. No turn down on beds or little chocolates on your pillow. No chocoholics where you went to the MDR and an array of cakes, pastries and desserts awaited you. Plus tea and coffee served at your table. Late night sandwiches with hot chocolate and in your bathroom a bag with P&O on the front for ladies to take home. Tours of the galley and bridge were free (now a fairly hefty fee). Over the years they have also put out questionnaires which I feel were loaded to make passengers go over more to freedom dining and also to reduce the amount of formal nights. Funny really that Princess are now reintroducing fixed time dining. Cruising I feel is being geared to the younger generation, but cruise lines need to be aware that when children are back at school and summer holidays (vacation) is finished it's their older clientele that fill their ships. 

[Cruisemeister2002]

2 hours ago, SCX22 said:

 

You're on to something there.  I think Baby Boomers are brand loyal because they didn't have all the media growing up and don't really know how to use media at their age.  They had the news and product commercials/advertisements.  They're not used to taking to the Internet to find out about new brands.

 

I'm a Millennial that has been exposed to social media, but not like Gen Z.  I'm more open to learning about and trying new brands.  When I see something new that piques my interest, I take out my phone, open a browser, and read reviews.  If it has good reviews, I'm more willing to try it.  For travel, instead of a brochure, I'll open YouTube or TikTok and watch videos that people made in real time--the concept of influencers.  In addition read reviews left by others.  My generation was brought up with this with the introduction of the Internet.  The Baby Boomers weren't exposed to this growing up and Gen X has only recently been exposed to the trend. 

 

The Internet in general has opened up a new world.  Everything is social media now a days, and if you're not part of it or have a poor understanding of how it works, like many Baby Boomers, you're missing out.  Having said that the Internet has also had a lot of negative impacts on society in regards to the spread of misinformation.

 

I'm brand loyal to few brands.  Coca-Cola is one of them.  Not a Pepsi person at all.  Once in a while I'll have a hankering for a Dr. Pepper.  Fighting words, I know.

Well I am coming up to 74, I go on the internet every day, I do internet banking and watch You Tube, I watch podcasts and on many sites have a second layer of security whereby I get a code on my phone to either get into a website or make a payment. One thing I don't have and that's my choice is access to social media sites like Twitter or facebook as I have no interest in the daily goings on of others. I do text and have Apps on my phone although I'd never consider my self a tech geek.My wife who is six years younger and uses Facebook, but then doesn't have the first idea of using a PC.

[PoppyVelvet]

4 hours ago, MyriamS said:

When I first joined those forums, what surprised me was the strong brand loyalty from some posters towards a cruise line. I don't think I've seen such loyalty in the travel and leisure space before, e.g. towards an airline or hotel chain. I wonder if it's age dependent or just something specific to the cruising community. 

 

We are millennials and we are not brand loyal. My partner and I need to consider cruise price, itinerary, dates as well as the cost of flights to the cruise port since we live in Munich. Only after all of this can we potentially consider the ship or brand. I sign up to loyalty schemes but I know I will likely never benefit from them (except the 5% off discount from MSC as it is valid after your first MSC cruise). 

 

When I talked to him about this, my partner laughed and said cruise lines off all the same services anyway, so why would anyone be loyal to a single cruise line? While I don't quite agree with him, I do think people who cruise on a mainstream line would probably like other mainstream lines, premium line cruisers other premium lines, luxury cruisers other luxury lines (or luxury ship within a ship experiences) etc. It seems worth trying at least. No need to wait until your favourite line disappoints you and you leave them in a huff (which also seems very common here!).

We’re Gen X (56/58) and can see the point in loyalty to an airline but never cruises. Airline loyalty can get you meaningful benefits but very little appeals to me about cruise loyalty programs. Our next five cruises are Princess, Oceania, Norwegian, Viking River and Silversea.

 

We prefer the “IKEA” decor, e.g., Norwegian Prima, over the old orange wood style, e.g., Diamond Princess. Our next Princess cruise will probably be our last, unless it’s truly impressive. Of course, sailing out of Australia we mostly get the older ships ☹️

[Camberley]

I feel now is the time to apologise for that time on Princess where me and another male friend took off our shirts and danced in public and I fear our elbows touched. Ok, we had also shared crabs at Rudi’s, but keep that quiet as I fear that’s too racy for the likes of some.

Edited July 16 by Camberley

[Thunderbird19]

1 hour ago, PoppyVelvet said:

Airline loyalty can get you meaningful benefits but very little appeals to me about cruise loyalty programs.

So true!  

[Globaler]

8 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

They have no clue what woke means. Had me scratching my head. Also they dated them selves by using the term "Hip". May as well say Groovy. At 63 I think Princess skews too old for me.

I’m not that old - just trying to be nice looking for politically correct words. Obviously, you would rather pick at the words instead of having a discussion about the intended topics.

[Globaler]

1 hour ago, Camberley said:

I feel now is the time to apologise for that time on Princess where me and another male friend took off our shirts and danced in public and I fear our elbows touched. Ok, we had also shared crabs at Rudi’s, but keep that quiet as I fear that’s too racy for the likes of some.

Either you missed the point of the comment or just trying to be funny - again just a comment and you can chose to be sarcastic or chose to participate in a discussion. However, thanks for joining in.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

8 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

At 63 I think Princess skews too old for me.

and at 50 I think it's just right for us (and my husband is practically a baby at 48, lol). Of course, we cruise with our kid on week long cruises during school breaks, which definitely makes the crowd much younger than on longer cruises outside of school breaks. 🙂

Edited July 16 by Itchy&Scratchy

[Itchy&Scratchy]

28 minutes ago, Globaler said:

I’m not that old - just trying to be nice looking for politically correct words. Obviously, you would rather pick at the words instead of having a discussion about the intended topics.

well, we all tried to have a discussion with you by asking you what you meant by "woke Princess" but so far you have ignored our questions.

[Globaler]

6 hours ago, MyriamS said:

When I first joined those forums, what surprised me was the strong brand loyalty from some posters towards a cruise line. I don't think I've seen such loyalty in the travel and leisure space before, e.g. towards an airline or hotel chain. I wonder if it's age dependent or just something specific to the cruising community. 

 

We are millennials and we are not brand loyal. My partner and I need to consider cruise price, itinerary, dates as well as the cost of flights to the cruise port since we live in Munich. Only after all of this can we potentially consider the ship or brand. I sign up to loyalty schemes but I know I will likely never benefit from them (except the 5% off discount from MSC as it is valid after your first MSC cruise). 

 

When I talked to him about this, my partner laughed and said cruise lines off all the same services anyway, so why would anyone be loyal to a single cruise line? While I don't quite agree with him, I do think people who cruise on a mainstream line would probably like other mainstream lines, premium line cruisers other premium lines, luxury cruisers other luxury lines (or luxury ship within a ship experiences) etc. It seems worth trying at least. No need to wait until your favourite line disappoints you and you leave them in a huff (which also seems very common here!).

Well for us we book on a casino rate, use the FCD and take advantage of the stockholder credit. Paying in full and being Platinum now, we get to book our dining ahead of time. All of these perks make the difference for us currently.

[Globaler]

2 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

well, we all tried to have a discussion with you by asking you what you meant by "woke Princess" but so far you have ignored our questions.

I am not ignoring it - I just don’t care to discuss culture issues. People are really divided on the topic and now I regret using the word. I only wanted to see where people are on Princess and what makes them like it so much. I have my reasons and I was curious about the whole market segmentation/strategy issues.

[Skippy]

Young gen X here. We don’t cruise enough to have loyalty status on a cruise line. We look more at dates, ship, itinerary, and prices. We’ve sailed carnival, celebrity, and Royal. Each have their own pros and cons. 
 

[JamieLogical]

9 hours ago, SCX22 said:

I’m of the belief that Princess cabins before the Sun aren’t functional.  The closet was wasted space.  I would much rather have had sofas in lieu and not have had to upgrade to a more expensive cabin category to be furnished with one.  Unless on a long cruise, many cruisers now a days don’t really bring a lot of stuff.  Bringing less stuff when traveling is reinforced by airlines because they’ve dropped bag limits to 50 lbs and are charging for bags or wanting passengers to upgrade to a higher class to get higher baggage allowances.  It helps that many cruise lines haves done away with the tradition of formal night and is only loosely enforced on Princess, much to the dismay of some loyalists.

 

I wish I could like your post about 15 times! The cabin designs on Princess ships (prior to the Sun) are atrocious and I hate them passionately. How were they still building new ships into the 2020's with shower curtains?!?!! The terrible cabin layout is the #1 reason why I haven't sailed Princess as much, refusing to sail in anything below a mini-suite because I can't physically fit into their absurdly tiny showers without being immediately cocooned in their unhygienic shower curtains. The closets are just dumb. Take half that space and make the bathroom a functional size!

 

The other reason I haven't sailed Princess and will never sail any ship of theirs built before the 2020s is that the decor throughout their ships just reminds me of what people thought "opulence" was in the 80s and 90s. It's truly ugly and just reminds me of my great aunt's mansion from when I was a child in the 80s. They have definitely tried to improve this with most of the interior spaces on the newer ships like the Enchanted and Sky. Definitely took a big leap forward with the decor on the Sun.

 

The vast majority of Princess' fleet feels old and tired and dated and they really really really need to either decommission or vastly revamp most of their ships to be able to compete with other lines for anyone under the age of 60 or 70.

 

Edited July 16 by JamieLogical

[ldubs]

21 hours ago, Paula_MacFan said:

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by 'woke'. 

 

We've been cruising Princess for 20 years. I've noticed lately their marketing is geared toward younger people. We've cruised 3 times in past few months, haven't noticed any huge shifts in the Princess product onboard.

 

I was part of Princess' marketing demographic 20 years ago, so I guess now that I'm 20 years older, they must be marketing to younger folks.   No getting around getting older I guess.  😃

[Globaler]

19 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I wish I could like your post about 15 times! The cabin designs on Princess ships (prior to the Sun) are atrocious and I hate them passionately. How were they still building new ships into the 2020's with shower curtains?!?!! The terrible cabin layout is the #1 reason why I haven't sailed Princess as much, refusing to sail in anything below a mini-suite because I can't physically fit into their absurdly tiny showers without being immediately cocooned in their unhygienic shower curtains. The closets are just dumb. Take half that space and make the bathroom a functional size!

 

The other reason I haven't sailed Princess and will never sail any ship of theirs built before the 2020s is that the decor throughout their ships just reminds me of what people thought "opulence" was in the 80s and 90s. It's truly ugly and just reminds me of my great aunt's mansion from when I was a child in the 80s. They have definitely tried to improve this with most of the interior spaces on the newer ships like the Enchanted and Sky. Definitely took a big leap forward with the decor on the Sun.

 

The vast majority of Princess' fleet feels old and tired and dated and they really really really need to either decommission or vastly revamp most of their ships to be able to compete with other lines for anyone under the age of 60 or 70.

 

Thanks for the comments, they made me think of Las Vegas which I am a major fan. In Vegas, you have downtown and the strip. Each one has pluses and minus for me. I miss the dive casinos like Slots a Fun where the 3 dollar crap table backed up to the street. However; I love the new casinos and shows on the strip. Certain ships appeal to certain people and that’s great.  Options are good and I for one am happy about that.

[TRLD]

10 hours ago, SCX22 said:

I’m of the belief that Princess cabins before the Sun aren’t functional.  The closet was wasted space.  I would much rather have had sofas in lieu and not have had to upgrade to a more expensive cabin category to be furnished with one.  Unless on a long cruise, many cruisers now a days don’t really bring a lot of stuff.  Bringing less stuff when traveling is reinforced by airlines because they’ve dropped bag limits to 50 lbs and are charging for bags or wanting passengers to upgrade to a higher class to get higher baggage allowances.  It helps that many cruise lines haves done away with the tradition of formal night and is only loosely enforced on Princess, much to the dismay of some loyalists.

Opinions differ.  We like the closets and storage space. 

[SCX22]

20 minutes ago, Globaler said:

Thanks for the comments, they made me think of Las Vegas which I am a major fan. In Vegas, you have downtown and the strip.

 

Even Vegas is transforming/has transformed.  The Vegas of Rat Pack has been demolished.  The themed hotels that were popular in the 1990s are trying to ditch their destination theming (Luxor, Paris, etc.) on their interiors for a more neutral contemporary theme to compete with the newer hotels on the block that lack this.  The themes might have been cool and novel in the 1990s but it's no longer that.  Unless you're Disney, such theming doesn't age well.

 

If a company isn't changing with the market and the times, it's survival and relevance is at stake.  Look at Kodak.  It failed to come up with a product other than film and photographic printing, and now that these have gone out of fashion, Kodak's relevance has diminished.  Kodak is still around, BTW, just a much smaller footprint and it really caters to the professional market, not home users like it once did.