mjkacmom Posted July 20 #126 Share Posted July 20 Hopefully NCL will get the money they’re out from the actual tour operator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distinctive-Destinations Posted July 20 #127 Share Posted July 20 It is interesting to me that there seems to be no comment (that I have seen at least) from the tour operator. I don’t think anyone can come to a fully formed conclusion yet without knowing that piece of the puzzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trivia addict Posted July 20 #128 Share Posted July 20 A lot of opinions and assumptions here. Seems like there are three entities involved. The family, NCL, and the tour company. Probably all bear some responsibility, but who among us knows the real story? What should be noted is that there was a happy ending. No one got hurt, no one got sick, compensation was given for the two missed cruise days, total reimbursement was givenfor the two days in Ketchikan, ( no it is not a wilderness), all fees incurred by the family because of international laws was paid by the cruise line, and future credit for travel was given. Did the cruise line not stick to its contract of not leaving groups behind? Or did it see that all tour buses had returned and not know that some had not gotten on the bus? whose fault was it that they did not get on the bus ? Was it filled? Did they get on the wrong bus? Were others on the wrong bus? Who knows? Whose story do I believe? Mistakes were made but efforts have been made to mitigate the damage. Life happens. Most of us travel for new adventures and should expect the unexpected. I think that all of us have experienced glitches on our journeys. And sometimes those glitches lead to great outcomes! If safety is not an issue embrace the adventure! I would have looked upon this as a free two days in a new port and had quite a story to tell when I got home. Travel is filled with uncertainty. If you can’t adapt, don’t travel. And lessons learned for all of us: leave your passport in the safe and carry a photo copy and a passport card with you when leaving the ship. Carry a credit and debit card with you. Make sure you get back to your tour bus with extra time to spare and seek out the driver for instructions, not a fellow passenger! If meds are crucial take a small supply with you and leave others in the safe with the passport Take a picture of the port agent phone # with you. Be responsible for yourself. All shore excursions, private or ship sponsored, carry a degree of risk. Be aware of your surroundings and use a clear head. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panhandle Couple Posted July 20 #129 Share Posted July 20 17 minutes ago, karatemom2 said: How many of you commenting here have actually been to the absolute joke that is the NCL Ward Cove port? I have - twice. And let me tell you I would NEVER cruise with NCL in Alaska again. The Ketchikan port stop is a complete cluster with the short port times and crazy shuttle bus situation. By the time people are trying to return via these shuttles from town, it is literally every man for themself. We had the good sense the second time we were there to arrange private transportation because we knew what a complete mess it is based on actual experience. I feel for those who venture into this uninformed thinking that they will have a fun port day in Ketchikan. it’s pretty clear what happened here. This family booked an NCL excursion which should have been reliable and provided them peace of mind and protection. But in the mob scene of people pushing and shoving their way on any bus they can plant themselves on as the day gets short, the tour operator made the error of allowing non tour passengers on a bus dedicated to the lumberjack tour excursion participants, thus leaving this family out in the cold with the promise another bus would be coming for them. This is completely on NCL and the tour operator - they know it which is why they are being so upfront about reimbursement and trying to make things right. But the even bigger issue is the whole Ward Cove failure and how dismal it is to navigate as opposed to being on a ship that actually docks in Ketchikan. The solution isn't just "that simple". Ketchikan has limited berths, and is not going to expand anytime in the future. In fact, like many small towns, some of the population would prefer LESS cruise traffic vs more. Simply put, supply doesn't equal demand. So NCL has started their own facility at Ward Cove using an old industrial port. Without that NCL has three options Drop Ketchikan from many of their cruises. That places them at a disadvantage to competitors. Increase the time spent at Ward Cove and dropping cruising Glacier Bay or Endicott Arm. That removes some of the best scenery of the cruise, and what most people remember about Alaska. An alternative would be to use 8 or 9 day cruises, which don't fit into weekly vacation plans for most people. Outbid competitors for the dock space in Ketchikan, and pass the expense on to the customer. We also missed Ketchikan when on the Bliss per-shut down due to high winds. Simply saying "use a downtown berth" doesn't always solve all problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panhandle Couple Posted July 20 #130 Share Posted July 20 As an aside, based on 5 NCL ships using AK routes this year, there are around 15,000 passengers per week using , that is 60,000 per month, and with the early April sailings, around 175,000 or so this year. This is the first publicized instance of someone not making it back to the ship. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqvol Posted July 20 #131 Share Posted July 20 1 hour ago, BirdTravels said: Save your money. A passport card is useless unless you are cross the US/Canada or US/Mexico boarder by land. It has no use other than that. You could not fly home from a foreign country with it. It's the same as a driver's license (e.g., government issued ID), but much more expensive. Last time I looked AK was still in the US, and at times a passport card will work to get you home on a cruise if your passport is lost or stolen, at least it did for me when my passport was pick pocketed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqvol Posted July 20 #132 Share Posted July 20 14 minutes ago, Panhandle Couple said: The solution isn't just "that simple". Ketchikan has limited berths, and is not going to expand anytime in the future. In fact, like many small towns, some of the population would prefer LESS cruise traffic vs more. Simply put, supply doesn't equal demand. So NCL has started their own facility at Ward Cove using an old industrial port. Without that NCL has three options Drop Ketchikan from many of their cruises. That places them at a disadvantage to competitors. Increase the time spent at Ward Cove and dropping cruising Glacier Bay or Endicott Arm. That removes some of the best scenery of the cruise, and what most people remember about Alaska. An alternative would be to use 8 or 9 day cruises, which don't fit into weekly vacation plans for most people. Outbid competitors for the dock space in Ketchikan, and pass the expense on to the customer. We also missed Ketchikan when on the Bliss per-shut down due to high winds. Simply saying "use a downtown berth" doesn't always solve all problems. The distances between ports in SE Alaska is so short that NCL could easily add 5 or 6 hours to the stop and still make the next port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare karatemom2 Posted July 20 #133 Share Posted July 20 9 minutes ago, Panhandle Couple said: The solution isn't just "that simple". Ketchikan has limited berths, and is not going to expand anytime in the future. In fact, like many small towns, some of the population would prefer LESS cruise traffic vs more. Simply put, supply doesn't equal demand. So NCL has started their own facility at Ward Cove using an old industrial port. Without that NCL has three options Drop Ketchikan from many of their cruises. That places them at a disadvantage to competitors. Increase the time spent at Ward Cove and dropping cruising Glacier Bay or Endicott Arm. That removes some of the best scenery of the cruise, and what most people remember about Alaska. An alternative would be to use 8 or 9 day cruises, which don't fit into weekly vacation plans for most people. Outbid competitors for the dock space in Ketchikan, and pass the expense on to the customer. We also missed Ketchikan when on the Bliss per-shut down due to high winds. Simply saying "use a downtown berth" doesn't always solve all problems. I am not arguing NCL’s reasons for establishing Ward Cove. Clearly they had challenges that made it a preferred option for the cruise line. My observation is that for passengers, especially those who may be unfamiliar or inexperienced, it is very limiting and challenging, and NCL has not figured out how to run it well or efficiently - especially with the limited port hours they offer. This was a situation just waiting to happen and it was due in large part to the confusing and inadequate setup they have established for transporting people. It is an aspect of choosing a cruise line and itinerary for an Alaska cruise that people need to understand and consider. NCL is not the best option and Ward Cove is less than optimal for anyone who truly wants to have any meaningful time or experience in Ketchikan. I would imagine after this NCL Shore Excursions department will implement some improvements in the shuttle situation and with their partner tour companies in monitoring who is getting on their buses to hopefully avoid a repeat of leaving customers on an NCL excursion behind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julig22 Posted July 20 #134 Share Posted July 20 7 minutes ago, zqvol said: The distances between ports in SE Alaska is so short that NCL could easily add 5 or 6 hours to the stop and still make the next port. The distance between Ketchikan and Victoria is not short, they have to leave on time and move fast in order to make Victoria. Which is why the Bliss and the Encore have short times in ports - the only way they could expand the time in ports would be to eliminate a port or add another day to the trip. NCL does offer longer Alaska cruises, just not on those ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexddd Posted July 20 #135 Share Posted July 20 On 7/19/2024 at 7:12 AM, CILCIANRQTS said: When’s the last time missing the ship was worthy of national news exposure? I’m seeing a BIG lawsuit here. Apparently slow news day and the guy can manage social media. Saw another story and cost to them $30,000 now. One report for cruise cost alone was $3,000 pp so they must be in Haven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexddd Posted July 20 #136 Share Posted July 20 On 7/19/2024 at 7:12 AM, CILCIANRQTS said: When’s the last time missing the ship was worthy of national news exposure? I’m seeing a BIG lawsuit here. To add, the Dawn made news when group left ashore recently. One of current group on that sailing but apparently not left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare luv2kroooz Posted July 20 #137 Share Posted July 20 3 hours ago, Mike07 said: Curious why so many on here defend NCL Basically, it is called blind loyalty. Their judgment becomes clouded and they are unable to process information fairly. Fair minded cruisers quickly figure out who the loyalists are and can decide the level of credibility given to some of the hilarious responses. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare luv2kroooz Posted July 20 #138 Share Posted July 20 53 minutes ago, Distinctive-Destinations said: It is interesting to me that there seems to be no comment (that I have seen at least) from the tour operator. I don’t think anyone can come to a fully formed conclusion yet without knowing that piece of the puzzle. Do you expect them to announce their fault? What would that comment look like? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julig22 Posted July 20 #139 Share Posted July 20 2 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said: Do you expect them to announce their fault? What would that comment look like? A little research shows there were 2 ships docked at Ward Cove - the Encore and Seven Seas Explorer (Regent). Encore set to sail at 1:15 pm, Regent at 5 pm. So it is entirely possible that the tour guide/attendant was absolutely correct that there would be another shuttle, just later, plus the regular shuttle should have still been available. What isn't clear is timing - were they trying to get on the NCL shuttle that had Regent passengers - or were they trying to get on the Regent shuttle that was full of Regent passengers?? An actual timeline would help for all of the back-seat detectives LOL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panhandle Couple Posted July 20 #140 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 25 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said: Basically, it is called blind loyalty. Their judgment becomes clouded and they are unable to process information fairly. Fair minded cruisers quickly figure out who the loyalists are and can decide the level of credibility given to some of the hilarious responses. Except I am fairly certain you are in the "Never Sail NCL Again" group, so why do you continue to post on the NCL site? As for "blind loyalty" I have been on Discovery Princess in 2022 for AK cruise (their newest ship at the time). and while we had a good cruise (a get together with many long time friends) overall the ship, cabin, food and some of the crew did not add up to our better NCL experiences. The ship design has an inside focus, vs outside the way BA+ ships do. No observation lounge. No deck 8 ocean walk. Their aft deck similar to Spice H2O has a small infinity pool, unusable for Alaska, that limited the sheltered deck space. Only the upper decks had room for viewing, the problem was several stretches of water are very windy, making them useless for viewing more than a few minutes. The theater entertainment we liked, but there is no Syd Norman's equivalent, and no outdoor bars other than the pool bars. The Princess medallion didn't live up to advertised capabilities. The ship's wi-fi was no better (or worse) than NCL's, although in AK you can use shore services most days. Having priced comparable cruises between the two lines several times since then, Princess is always more expensive to get the similar amenities. Which is why we haven't sailed with them again. And despite all this, I have NOT complained on the Princess board. Edited July 20 by Panhandle Couple 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare karatemom2 Posted July 20 #141 Share Posted July 20 3 minutes ago, julig22 said: A little research shows there were 2 ships docked at Ward Cove - the Encore and Seven Seas Explorer (Regent). Encore set to sail at 1:15 pm, Regent at 5 pm. So it is entirely possible that the tour guide/attendant was absolutely correct that there would be another shuttle, just later, plus the regular shuttle should have still been available. What isn't clear is timing - were they trying to get on the NCL shuttle that had Regent passengers - or were they trying to get on the Regent shuttle that was full of Regent passengers?? An actual timeline would help for all of the back-seat detectives LOL. These are the facts reported; Family booked an NCL ship excursion to lumberjack show. Tour operator had dedicated transport for this group of NCL passengers ON THIS TOUR. Passengers who were not a part of this paid NCL excursion made their way onto the return tour bus dedicated to the lumberjack tour group. Family with paid NCL shore excursion was prohibited from getting on their reserved tour bus because people who were not part of the tour were mistakenly allowed to board, taking their seats. Tour operator indicated another bus would be taking them back to the ship which did not materialize in timely fashion and they missed boarding time, even though they were on a ship sponsored tour. NCL has acknowledged responsibility and is covering all costs and offering future cruise compensation as well because they are attempting as best as possible to make things right for this family that had a pretty big ordeal because mistakes were made. Your comments about Regent being in port have literally zero to do any of this and it doesn’t take any detective work to figure it out because NCL has basically acknowledged exactly what happened! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare luv2kroooz Posted July 20 #142 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Panhandle Couple said: Except I am fairly certain you are in the "Never Sail NCL Again" group, so why do you continue to post on the NCL site? Totally false. We sail where we find value and have had memorable experiences on NCL. Moreso in the distant past, not so much recent past. We wouldn't write off NCL and would sail NCL with the understanding that itinerary changes happen frequently. I post on here to provide information and receive information and intend to continue doing so. If that bothers you, then I can't help you. Your princess review is offtopic on these boards. Edited July 20 by luv2kroooz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distinctive-Destinations Posted July 20 #143 Share Posted July 20 28 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said: Do you expect them to announce their fault? What would that comment look like? I’m saying that I haven’t read anything that says anyone has even asked the tour operator for a comment. Not even “the tour company declined to comment.” But maybe they could offer some details, like the family came back after the last scheduled departure time. Or blame…whoever. My point is, we (or at least I) have not heard one instance of them being asked any question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare karatemom2 Posted July 20 #144 Share Posted July 20 5 minutes ago, Panhandle Couple said: Except I am fairly certain you are in the "Never Sail NCL Again" group, so why do you continue to post on the NCL site? As for "blind loyalty" I have been on Discovery Princess in 2022 for AK cruise (their newest ship at the time). and while we had a good cruise (a get together with many long time friends) overall the ship, cabin, food and some of the crew did not add up to our better NCL experiences. The ship design has an inside focus, vs outside the way BA+ ships do. No observation lounge. No deck 8 ocean walk. Their aft deck similar to Spice H2O has a small infinity pool, unusable for Alaska, that limited the sheltered deck space. Only the upper decks had room for viewing, the problem was several stretches of water are very windy, making them useless for viewing more than a few minutes. The theater entertainment we liked, but there is no Syd Norman's equivalent, and no outdoor bars other than the pool bars. The Princess medallion didn't live up to advertised capabilities. The ship's wi-fi was no better (or worse) than NCL's, although in AK you can use shore services most days. Having priced comparable cruises between the two lines several times since then, Princess is always more expensive to get the similar amenities. Which is why we haven't sailed with them again. And despite all this, I have NOT complained on the Princess board. But you could! It’s ok. As a frequent Princess cruiser I can assure you that people complain there all the time. We love Princess, but many of your points about the Discovery are absolutely valid and I agree. It is definitely not our favorite Princess ship - in general we prefer the older Grand Class ships. But the right cabin on the Royal Class ships helps, and we love the forward facing balconies for scenic cruises. We also really like NCL - we have had great cruises. We enjoy the food and particularly the entertainment. However, for Alaska, itinerary is 100 percent our priority and NCL itineraries and port times are just not up to par. We are looking at other options with NCL and look forward to cruising with them again - maybe in Europe or East Coast. We would even do Mexican Riviera with NCL again. Just not Alaska. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distinctive-Destinations Posted July 20 #145 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, zqvol said: Last time I looked AK was still in the US, and at times a passport card will work to get you home on a cruise if your passport is lost or stolen, at least it did for me when my passport was pick pocketed. Correct. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-passport/card.html The card is for U.S. citizens who travel by land and sea from Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, and Caribbean countries. The card is not valid for international travel by airand is cheaper than the passport book. Edited July 20 by Distinctive-Destinations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julig22 Posted July 20 #146 Share Posted July 20 3 minutes ago, karatemom2 said: These are the facts reported; Family booked an NCL ship excursion to lumberjack show. Tour operator had dedicated transport for this group of NCL passengers ON THIS TOUR. Passengers who were not a part of this paid NCL excursion made their way onto the return tour bus dedicated to the lumberjack tour group. Family with paid NCL shore excursion was prohibited from getting on their reserved tour bus because people who were not part of the tour were mistakenly allowed to board, taking their seats. Tour operator indicated another bus would be taking them back to the ship which did not materialize in timely fashion and they missed boarding time, even though they were on a ship sponsored tour. NCL has acknowledged responsibility and is covering all costs and offering future cruise compensation as well because they are attempting as best as possible to make things right for this family that had a pretty big ordeal because mistakes were made. Your comments about Regent being in port have literally zero to do any of this and it doesn’t take any detective work to figure it out because NCL has basically acknowledged exactly what happened! Methinks you've creatively expanded on the "facts" as reported. "Their" reserved tour bus is something assumed IMHO. Have you ever actually been on the lumberjack tour from the cruise? Or even to Ward Cove? It's a S***show trying to get on the CORRECT bus. You are assuming that people not on the NCL excursion made it to the NCL bus - how would the last people to arrive even know that? It's entirely possible that family on the NCL excursion were trying to make it onto the Regent bus - pretty easy to assume that both ships offered excursions to the same showing. As to Regent being in port, it has everything to do with the story, as the family stated that there were others from another ship on the bus they were trying to board. So my comments actually support part of the story that wasn't originally making sense. Nobody is saying mistakes weren't made and that NCL isn't taking responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare karatemom2 Posted July 20 #147 Share Posted July 20 6 minutes ago, julig22 said: Methinks you've creatively expanded on the "facts" as reported. "Their" reserved tour bus is something assumed IMHO. Have you ever actually been on the lumberjack tour from the cruise? Or even to Ward Cove? It's a S***show trying to get on the CORRECT bus. You are assuming that people not on the NCL excursion made it to the NCL bus - how would the last people to arrive even know that? It's entirely possible that family on the NCL excursion were trying to make it onto the Regent bus - pretty easy to assume that both ships offered excursions to the same showing. As to Regent being in port, it has everything to do with the story, as the family stated that there were others from another ship on the bus they were trying to board. So my comments actually support part of the story that wasn't originally making sense. Nobody is saying mistakes weren't made and that NCL isn't taking responsibility. As a matter of fact, if you read my earlier post you would note I have in fact been to Ward Cove twice. It’s a full nightmare. I have also been on many ship excursions, including to the lumberjack show. So I am speaking from experience and the shuttle situation for Ward Cove is ridiculous and chaotic - no question about it. However, when you are on a ship sponsored excursion you should expect dedicated transport for your group. Generally you have a number and color with corresponding bus - for example on one of our recent Princess tours we were group Blue 7 - our bus had a sign in the front window - Blue 7. Only people with the corresponding ticket or sticker were on this bus. This is where, somehow, the system failed here. And it is very likely because of the chaotic mess created by the whole Ward Cove transit issue. But that does not alleviate the responsibility of the tour operators to monitor who is getting on the bus and it doesn’t alleviate the responsibility of NCL to live up to their promises to people who book ship excursions and do their part to attempt to return on their designated transportation that they are guaranteed return to the ship. I'm glad for the family that NCL seems to be really doing their best to make it right and hopefully they can enjoy a future cruise with the compensation being offered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILCIANRQTS Posted July 20 #148 Share Posted July 20 With over 7,000 views and 151 postings, let’s keep posting on what MAY have happened, in our opinion. I’m sure we’ll eventually get to the truth one day. This is wicked fun!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trivia addict Posted July 20 #149 Share Posted July 20 I’ve never been to the Lumberjack Show, but I have been to Ward Cove twice. Both times with RCCL. Respectively, to all, I have never had a problem navigating it. I don’t know why people dislike it so much. It’s inconvenient but that’s the worst I can say about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqvol Posted July 20 #150 Share Posted July 20 1 hour ago, julig22 said: The distance between Ketchikan and Victoria is not short, they have to leave on time and move fast in order to make Victoria. Which is why the Bliss and the Encore have short times in ports - the only way they could expand the time in ports would be to eliminate a port or add another day to the trip. NCL does offer longer Alaska cruises, just not on those ships. Then switch the order of the ports, make Ketchikan the first stop not the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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