CCL places new ship order, none for HAL

[Laminator]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Wow, talk about cynical :).  First off, the Viking ads that show Torstein Hagen is showing the real thing.  He is actually a very interesting person in that he personally founded Viking River cruises and later Viking Ocean cruises.  He is also a hands-on CEO/owner.  When the Viking Sky had its disaster off of Norway, he quickly flew into the area to deal, face to face, with the passengers who had been evacuated off his ship (we had a relative on the ship who told us the tale).  I am also not sure what you mean by "high brow" although my own limited experience with Viking (and its fellow passengers) has all been positive.

 

The cruise industry is quite interesting with some folks, like Torstein Hagen, who have shaped the industry.  With Carnival Corp you have the Arison family (Ted and Micky), NCL has a long history with Knut Kloster, and MSC has the amazing Aponte family.  For those of us who love cruising, we have those folks to thank for much of what exists today.  Funny how folks that are fans of specific cruise lines (such as HAL) will say nasty things about the "mother company" and refuse to accept without the CCLs, NCLH, and RCI, there would be several less cruise lines.  In a sense, these companies rode to the rescue of companies that were failing (financially).  Do not think, for one minute, that cruise lines do not go out of business as we have companies like Regency, Renaissance, and CMV to show us what happens when nobody "rides to the rescue."

 

As to the future of HAL, I am concerned.  For more than a decade I have posted my belief that HAL has been operating like a ship without a rudder.  They seem to waffle all over the place on their target customer and the type ships they want to operate.  Lately, it seems like they are trying to position themself as a budget cruise line for the elderly and the type of gamblers who line-up for cheap bus trips to Atlantic City (sorry for being so harsh).  The truth is that "casino specials" are a growing trend on HAL (and we also see it on Princess).  By the way, since Viking has been mentioned it is interesting that is one of the few cruise lines (along with Disney) does not even have casinos or offer near free cruises to gamblers.

 

Hank

I get more casino offers from NCL, Royal and Celebrity than I do from HAL. From land based casinos I get 4 or 5 a year. From the brands themselves I probably get another 30 to 40 combined. I would make an educated guess that on any 7 day cruise you will have 10 to 20 times more cheap bus trip gamblers on one of the aforementioned cruise lines than HAL. MGM and Caesers properties alone offer tens of thousands of free cruises a year to their players on NCL, Royal and Celebrity depending on what cruiseline they are in bed with. HAL is trying to catch up with the cheap bus trip gamblers and I can assure you they are not even close. I am guessing from a business standpoint those cheap bus trip gamblers make the cruise lines a helluva lot more money than most HAL pax as all of the lines cater heavily to them. 
I started cruising on HAL in 2007 with a free cruise offer from the Riviera Hotel in Las Vegas. There were maybe 20 pax total from the Riviera. Since then I have been receiving offers directly from HAL. They would hold special event cruises where at most there were 40 to 50 that attended. Back in 2013 or 2014 I went on a special event cruise on NCL where there were 400 in attendance, 10 years later HAL occasionally gets close to that number. Prior to covid I met a Carnival casino corporate big wig on a HAL event cruise. She told me at that time HAL's goal was to get 300 to 400 for each of their events. Occasionally they get close. Not often though. They still have quite a bit of catching up to do. 

Edited July 25 by Laminator

[TheEmerson]

On 7/23/2024 at 12:45 PM, POA1 said:

Darn! I was hoping for an Enormodam with a rock wall and go carts.

I think the new name would be Whatthedam 

[TRLD]

14 hours ago, Desert Cruisers said:

Thanks for correcting me on the correct designation for Carnival Corporation and that the comments were made by the CEO rather than the CFO.

 

I actually got up at the crack of dawn on the West Coast to listen to the analyst call.  I've also listened to previous calls as I'm a shareholder. The CEO & CFO are always adept at putting the most positive spin on results.  My comments were not meant to indicate that HAL is on its deathbed.  However, HAL leadership still needs to successfully implement whatever plans there are for HAL to improve its financial performance. Meeting HAL's "potential" & exceeding the ROI target would encourage Carnival Corporation to invest further in new-builds.

Do not disagree that the CEO would  be happier if they were at target and that it would raise their priority in the capital expenditure queue. That said the queue is where it is because they have to be very tight with new capital (new debt) until they get the debt paid down to some degree. I expect some loosening in 2026, with most handcuffs coming off by 2030. Which fits with their order dates even with the Carnival orders.

[HappyInVan]

On 7/24/2024 at 10:08 AM, Mary229 said:

Princess just announced a new ship

https://www.carnivalcorp.com/news-releases/news-release-details/princess-cruises-reveals-epic-2026-alaska-season

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Sign of the times. Ordered in 2018. Size 175k GT and LNG powered. 4,300 pax and 1,500 crew.

 

Gotta to wonder if this is HAL's future?

 

 

[ellieanne]

6 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Sign of the times. Ordered in 2018. Size 175k GT and LNG powered. 4,300 pax and 1,500 crew.

 

Gotta to wonder if this is HAL's future?

 

 

5800 people is larger than the (3 different) towns my parents, brothers, and I live in!
No wonder so many ports are limiting cruise ship calls. Even the capacity of the Zaandam can overfill smaller port stops.

[HappyInVan]

5 hours ago, ellieanne said:

5800 people is larger than the (3 different) towns my parents, brothers, and I live in!
No wonder so many ports are limiting cruise ship calls. Even the capacity of the Zaandam can overfill smaller port stops.

 

I'm sympathetic.

 

That said, I was surprised by my sole journey on MSC's Meraviglia in Yacht Club. Stepping out from the YC, I was really surprised at the difference between the Meraviglia and the Koningsdam.

 

The larger ship (171k GT 4,428 pax double occupancy) actually felt more comfortable than the smaller ship (100k 2,650 pax). While the ship space per pax was similar, the MSC ship had much larger public areas.

 

The interior was designed like a large mall with an long open atrium (photo below). You access the F&B venues from this large open space that resembles a piazza. In contrast, Koningsdam pax are funnelled into a central tunnel, often jammed.

 

IMHO, HAL's Pinnacle ships are at a dead-end because of its traditional design. The big new ships are like resort complexes.

 

Unfortunately, the new Princess Sun (175k GT) seems to follow the old layout.

 

The big downside are the long queues to embark and disembark. But, you can get priority by being a YC or Aurea guest, or if you get status matched to top tier membership.

 

https://www.msccruises.ca/manage-booking/msc-voyagers-club

 

I would suggest that we need to take a positive attitude to ongoing developments. It is what it is.

 

[Mary229]

Design really depends on what overall business model they choose.  For the traveler the larger stateroom is much preferred, one needs storage and occasional solitude.   I can understand that the 7-10 day vacationer would prefer the resort at sea.   There are restraints on design by concept.  Luxury yacht, expedition, ocean traveler, resort or party barge, which will it be?

[BermudaBound2014]

6 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

IMHO, HAL's Pinnacle ships are at a dead-end because of its traditional design. The big new ships are like resort complexes.

 

I agree.

 

IMO, The Pinnacle ships are a bad design. The ships just do not flow well, and because of this, felt much more crowded than most of the mega ships I have sailed.

 

In the evenings, the entire ship is funneled into three music venues. The RSRR is actually a small venue considering there is a wall dividing the space greatly limiting site lines (unless that wall is weight baring that design is a blunder). People would scatter across the floor when one venue stopped and the other started. Unless you get to BBK early, your sight lines are terrible there too, and the upstairs is nice for watching the band, but useless for dancers.

 

The long, straight, cafeteria design of the lido has also evolved on some of the mega ships which offer 9-10 different complimentary venues scattered around the ship leaving very minimal lines even during the most busy times. Each station in the lido overflowed into other stations particularly at the forward section making even walking thru a bit challenging. The top decks of the ship were also chopped up with multiple dead end areas that had zero flow.

 

@Mary229 I'm glad you brought up room size as it triggered me to do a comparison. With the exception of inside cabins, the rooms also run smaller on Pinnacle class when compared to some of the mega ships I've sailed. Of course, some mega ships have much smaller rooms (NCL, MSC,  and the new Princess ships come to mind, as those are run really small). Ironically, the Vista class cabins are also smaller compared to some of the mega ships. The much smaller Zaandam does offer larger insides and balconies which would appeal to the 'traveler' . (taken from cruiseshipdeckplans):

 

61 Ton Zaandam inside 182 square feet (biggest inside cabins)

82 Ton Zuiderdam inside 170 square feet

100 Ton K'dam inside 170 square feet

130 Ton Celebrity Edge: 202 square feet

183 ton Carnival Celebration inside: 158 square feet

225 ton Allure of the seas: 172 square feet

 

Zaandam outside 197 square feet

Zuiderdam outside 170 square feet

K'dam outside 170 square feet

Celebrity Edge outside: 200 square feet

Carnival Celebration outside 243 square feet

Allure of the seas: 179 square feet

 

Zaandam Vista Suite balcony (no standard balconies on ship): 229 square feet

Zuiderdam balcony 174 square feet

K'dam balcony 180 square feet

Celebrity Edge balcony 201 square feet

Celebration balcony 205 square feet

Allure of the Seas: 182 Square feet

 

And don't even get me started on the small bathroom counter space. Below are two photos from ships I sailed last year. The first is Kdam and the second is Carnival's excel class. The bathroom counter space on the K'dam was significantly smaller (although the shower was larger).I suppose some may prefer a larger shower, but to me the bathroom was a very poor design in terms of function.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, don't get me wrong. The design of the Pinnacle ships did not stop me from booking 35 nights on her next year. I've never met a cruise ship I didn't like and HAL longer itineraries are an excellent value. But I do agree with happinvan in that I do not believe HAL will duplicate another pinnacle class. The Pinnacle class design is already 10 years old and cruise ships have evolved greatly since then. 

 

 

Edited July 27 by BermudaBound2014

[clueless2]

Celebrity updated their Millennium Class ships which debuted in 2000.  They basically "took them down to the studs".  We took a NE/Canada cruise a couple of years ago on one and it was very nice.   It's a shame HA doesn't do that to their older ships.  I believe they redid all the plumbing, electrical, etc. 

Edited July 27 by clueless2

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

I agree.

 

IMO, The Pinnacle ships are a bad design. The ships just do not flow well, and because of this, felt much more crowded than most of the mega ships I have sailed.

 

In the evenings, the entire ship is funneled into three music venues. The RSRR is actually a small venue considering there is a wall dividing the space greatly limiting site lines (unless that wall is weight baring that design is a blunder). People would scatter across the floor when one venue stopped and the other started. Unless you get to BBK early, your sight lines are terrible there too, and the upstairs is nice for watching the band, but useless for dancers.

 

The long, straight, cafeteria design of the lido has also evolved on some of the mega ships which offer 9-10 different complimentary venues scattered around the ship leaving very minimal lines even during the most busy times. Each station in the lido overflowed into other stations particularly at the forward section making even walking thru a bit challenging. The top decks of the ship were also chopped up with multiple dead end areas that had zero flow.

 

@Mary229 I'm glad you brought up room size as it triggered me to do a comparison. With the exception of inside cabins, the rooms also run smaller on Pinnacle class when compared to some of the mega ships I've sailed. Of course, some mega ships have much smaller rooms (NCL, MSC,  and the new Princess ships come to mind, as those are run really small). Ironically, the Vista class cabins are also smaller compared to some of the mega ships. The much smaller Zaandam does offer larger insides and balconies which would appeal to the 'traveler' . (taken from cruiseshipdeckplans):

 

61 Ton Zaandam inside 182 square feet (biggest inside cabins)

82 Ton Zuiderdam inside 170 square feet

100 Ton K'dam inside 170 square feet

130 Ton Celebrity Edge: 202 square feet

183 ton Carnival Celebration inside: 158 square feet

225 ton Allure of the seas: 172 square feet

 

Zaandam outside 197 square feet

Zuiderdam outside 170 square feet

K'dam outside 170 square feet

Celebrity Edge outside: 200 square feet

Carnival Celebration outside 243 square feet

Allure of the seas: 179 square feet

 

Zaandam Vista Suite balcony (no standard balconies on ship): 229 square feet

Zuiderdam balcony 174 square feet

K'dam balcony 180 square feet

Celebrity Edge balcony 201 square feet

Celebration balcony 205 square feet

Allure of the Seas: 182 Square feet

 

And don't even get me started on the small bathroom counter space. Below are two photos from ships I sailed last year. The first is Kdam and the second is Carnival's excel class. The bathroom counter space on the K'dam was significantly smaller (although the shower was larger).I suppose some may prefer a larger shower, but to me the bathroom was a very poor design in terms of function.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, don't get me wrong. The design of the Pinnacle ships did not stop me from booking 35 nights on her next year. I've never met a cruise ship I didn't like and HAL longer itineraries are an excellent value. But I do agree with happinvan in that I do not believe HAL will duplicate another pinnacle class. The Pinnacle class design is already 10 years old and cruise ships have evolved greatly since then. 

 

 

Compare the HAL ships to the similarly sized, 24 year old Grand Princess.  The public areas on Princess are designed for more general use, on HAL they are currently set up for music walk with a lot of sound deadening material that makes the area less useful for other activities and gives it a very closed in feeling. The one very attractive feature of HAL ships is the Crows Nest. 

 

We sail on HAL in spite of music walk, not because of it.

 

 

[howiefrommd]

We tend to be destination vs cruiseline cruisers.  Recently we have taken two HAL cruisers.  One being the 94 day Grand Australia (Volendam), second the 28 day Alaska (Westerdam).  Have taken HAL a few times before and was surprised at the decline in this line.  I will say that we were able to get Neptune Suites on both of these cruises at amazing discounts.  On both of these cruises, the casino was empty, restaurants were empty (except on the Alaska cruise as over 700 guests had the HIA package) and other potential revenue sources (ie Spa, Excursions, Stores,  etc.) were noticeably underutilized.

 

Considering the demographic, the amount of previous cruises that the guests have taken,  it is understandable that the spas, pictures, excursions etc. did not have much activity.

 

Overwhelming most of the cruisers on both cruises were 4, 5 (stars) or presidential cruisers.  In discussions with people, many people got amazing last minute offers to move or upgrade. If HAL is to survive utilizing the business model of tremendous last minute discounts it will be interesting to see the outcome.

 

On the Grand Australia cruise the CEO (with senior HAL staff in tow) came and did a Q & A session, and listening to the vague responses and watching the facial expressions and body language of the senior staff I truly think time will tell if there will be a HAL forget newbuilds.

 

On even a stranger note, on the Grand Australia cruise they cancelled Bora Bora because we had too many passengers.  We knew about this way before leaving on the cruise.  We had so many medical evacuations, it took us below the threshold so we were able to go to Bora Bora.  It should also be noted.

 

According to staff we ended up with under 1,000 passengers.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27 by howiefrommd
Typo

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, TRLD said:

Compare the HAL ships to the similarly sized, 24 year old Grand Princess. 

 

The discussion evolved into whether or not HAL would remake the Pinnacle class. My comments weren't comparing Pinnacle ships to other old ships, I was comparing Pinnacle to new ships on other lines that disperse crowds better. The room size was just an addition 😉 

 

I thought crows nest was terrible on the K'dam. It's very small and all chopped up into shore excursion area, art area, and tables for games/puzzles. Very crowded almost all the time. Also, there was no food offered :-(. 

 

 

 

 

I much prefer the 'crows nest' on the new NCL ships that also offer smaller tapas type buffets all day (their breakfast was wonderful) and I thought the furniture was way more comfortable. Plenty of tables for those who want games. Plus, they are just aesthetically more pleasing to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And since the ship is a 'mega' ship, the observation lounge is significantly larger and was rarely crowded because passengers had so many other areas to select around the ship to congregate.

 

The waterfront on this design ship is exceptional. It's a totally redesigned promenade (yes you can still walk it) but they have added several bars and restaurants to eat/drink at. Nightly entertainment. Plus some specialty restaurants where you can eat outside if that's your preference. Of course, there is also table service on the promenade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point is Ships have evolved and the Pinnacle class is outdated in terms of design. I get that many people don't want mega ships, but HAL can build something a bit smaller than mega ship using some of the design features that mega ships use to disperse passengers to reduce the feeling of being crowded.  Absolutely mega ships have more people, but they also can disperse the people into multiple different areas and feel less crowded (My opinion based on personal experience).

 

 

I think some of the HAL passengers may enjoy a more modern promenade that also includes amenities like bar service, a band, and super comfy furniture. It doesn't have to be a mega ship. It can just be a redesigned 100gt ship that has modern features.

 

 

 

 

 

That's not to say Pinnacle ships are a bad (again, I'm choosing to sail on one for 35 nights in January) and I know people love them.  But many people just assume that 5,000 passenger ships will feel crowded and it's just not necessarily the case. 

 

I'm not suggesting HAL build a mega ship, but I do recommend they consider implementing some of the features of the mega ships which actually work well into a nice sized 100GT ship with modern features. 

Edited July 27 by BermudaBound2014

[TRLD]

52 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

The discussion evolved into whether or not HAL would remake the Pinnacle class. My comments weren't comparing Pinnacle ships to other old ships, I was comparing Pinnacle to new ships on other lines that disperse crowds better. The room size was just an addition 😉 

 

I thought crows nest was terrible on the K'dam. It's very small and all chopped up into shore excursion area, art area, and tables for games/puzzles. Very crowded almost all the time. Also, there was no food offered :-(. 

 

 

 

 

I much prefer the 'crows nest' on the new NCL ships that also offer smaller tapas type buffets all day (their breakfast was wonderful) and I thought the furniture was way more comfortable. Plenty of tables for those who want games. Plus, they are just aesthetically more pleasing to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And since the ship is a 'mega' ship, the observation lounge is significantly larger and was rarely crowded because passengers had so many other areas to select around the ship to congregate.

 

The waterfront on this design ship is exceptional. It's a totally redesigned promenade (yes you can still walk it) but they have added several bars and restaurants to eat/drink at. Nightly entertainment. Plus some specialty restaurants where you can eat outside if that's your preference. Of course, there is also table service on the promenade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My point is Ships have evolved and the Pinnacle class is outdated in terms of design. I get that many people don't want mega ships, but HAL can build something a bit smaller than mega ship using some of the design features that mega ships use to disperse passengers to reduce the feeling of being crowded.  Absolutely mega ships have more people, but they also can disperse the people into multiple different areas and feel less crowded (My opinion based on personal experience).

 

 

I think some of the HAL passengers may enjoy a more modern promenade that also includes amenities like bar service, a band, and super comfy furniture. It doesn't have to be a mega ship. It can just be a redesigned 100gt ship that has modern features.

 

 

 

 

 

That's not to say Pinnacle ships are a bad (again, I'm choosing to sail on one for 35 nights in January) and I know people love them.  But many people just assume that 5,000 passenger ships will feel crowded and it's just not necessarily the case. 

 

I'm not suggesting HAL build a mega ship, but I do recommend they consider implementing some of the features of the mega ships which actually work well into a nice sized 100GT ship with modern features. 

My point was that the 24 year old grand a similarly size ship was a better design than the HAL ships.

 

Hard to compare with larger new ships because they have far more room to work with for design elements. Who wouldn't want to have the grand open two deck spaces like the P&O Iona has, but guess what no space in a 2700 size ship.

[BermudaBound2014]

2 hours ago, TRLD said:

My point was that the 24 year old grand a similarly size ship was a better design than the HAL ships.

 

Hard to compare with larger new ships because they have far more room to work with for design elements. Who wouldn't want to have the grand open two deck spaces like the P&O Iona has, but guess what no space in a 2700 size ship.

 

Cruise ships have evolved so much in the latest designs that I don't believe anything is impossible.

 

. All they need to do to make a more useful promenade is shrink the width of the inside bars and shopping just a bit to make the outside promenade wider. The rolling stones rock room would have doors to outside space for seating (the outside space just becomes part of the RSRR seating in the evening) so the seating might not be THAT much different and the music would be piped outside with live cams for the band to watch. It's really a great concept especially in warm weather or scenic sailings.

 

With the amount of people who love promenade decks sailing on HAL, I would think this design would be very popular, especially the quiet super comfy places to curl up with a book during the day.

 

Just thinking out loud and dreaming of a new ship design for HAL that isn't a mega ship, but is more functional. I'm sure my ideas aren't popular with everyone. 

 

 

Edited July 27 by BermudaBound2014

[BermudaBound2014]

4 hours ago, howiefrommd said:

We tend to be destination vs cruiseline cruisers.  Recently we have taken two HAL cruisers.  One being the 94 day Grand Australia (Volendam), second the 28 day Alaska (Westerdam).  Have taken HAL a few times before and was surprised at the decline in this line.  I will say that we were able to get Neptune Suites on both of these cruises at amazing discounts.  On both of these cruises, the casino was empty, restaurants were empty (except on the Alaska cruise as over 700 guests had the HIA package) and other potential revenue sources (ie Spa, Excursions, Stores,  etc.) were noticeably underutilized.

 

Considering the demographic, the amount of previous cruises that the guests have taken,  it is understandable that the spas, pictures, excursions etc. did not have much activity.

 

Overwhelming most of the cruisers on both cruises were 4, 5 (stars) or presidential cruisers.  In discussions with people, many people got amazing last minute offers to move or upgrade. If HAL is to survive utilizing the business model of tremendous last minute discounts it will be interesting to see the outcome.

 

On the Grand Australia cruise the CEO (with senior HAL staff in tow) came and did a Q & A session, and listening to the vague responses and watching the facial expressions and body language of the senior staff I truly think time will tell if there will be a HAL forget newbuilds.

 

On even a stranger note, on the Grand Australia cruise they cancelled Bora Bora because we had too many passengers.  We knew about this way before leaving on the cruise.  We had so many medical evacuations, it took us below the threshold so we were able to go to Bora Bora.  It should also be noted.

 

According to staff we ended up with under 1,000 passengers.  

 

 

 

 

 

HAL is struggling with an identity crisis right now. They have a niche in the longer itineraries but is that enough? Only time will tell. 

 

Let's put it this way, I'm not buying gift cards long before I'm actually sailing. 

Edited July 27 by BermudaBound2014

[TRLD]

9 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Cruise ships have evolved so much in the latest designs that I don't believe anything is impossible.

 

. All they need to do to make a more useful promenade is shrink the width of the inside bars and shopping just a bit to make the outside promenade wider. The rolling stones rock room would have doors to outside space for seating (the outside space just becomes part of the RSRR seating in the evening) so the seating might not be THAT much different and the music would be piped outside with live cams for the band to watch. It's really a great concept especially in warm weather or scenic sailings.

 

With the amount of people who love promenade decks sailing on HAL, I would think this design would be very popular, especially the quiet super comfy places to curl up with a book during the day.

 

Just thinking out loud and dreaming of a new ship design for HAL that isn't a mega ship, but is more functional. I'm sure my ideas aren't popular with everyone. 

 

 

I recall that there was also a change in Solas rules about 15 years ago impacting life boats that made it more difficult to have the old style promenade deck with the boats above it.  Some chanfe in how the boats had to launch. Though I cannot find the rule today, but I remember the chief talking about it on CC.

[TRLD]

21 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

HAL is struggling with an identity crisis right now. They have a niche in the longer itineraries but is that enough? Only time will tell. 

 

Let's put it this way, I'm not buying gift cards long before I'm actually sailing. 

Well in addition to their long cruises they seem to be pretty sailing full this Alaska season. Could find very few openings for a last minute summer cruise.

 

The short  7 day cruises in competitive markets seem to be functioning as design introducing the line to new passengers based upon the loads in those cruises.

[BermudaBound2014]

6 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Well in addition to their long cruises they seem to be pretty sailing full this Alaska season. Could find very few openings for a last minute summer cruise.

 

The short  7 day cruises in competitive markets seem to be functioning as design introducing the line to new passengers based upon the loads in those cruises.

 

Agreed. No argument from me. HAL has done surprisingly well in Alaska this season. 

 

I still think HAL is struggling with an identity crisis. Lots of variable that aren't told in a 10K. I think you hit the nail on the head. If HAL doesn't order new ships by 2026 that will be very telling. 

 

 

[TRLD]

37 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

HAL is struggling with an identity crisis right now. They have a niche in the longer itineraries but is that enough? Only time will tell. 

 

Let's put it this way, I'm not buying gift cards long before I'm actually sailing. 

I believe that the one area where HAL is going through some changes now, and clarity is lacking is in their weakest area, entertainment. They used to have more activities and general entertainment such as guest entertainers and production shows. Then they shifted away to a focus on music walk. Now it appears that they are changing again away from music walk.

 

That is the one area where they rate below their competition  We found their entertainment better than our last cruise on Oceania (a cruise that was more sedated than sedate), but far less than their mass market competition.

Edited July 27 by TRLD

[BermudaBound2014]

17 minutes ago, TRLD said:

I believe that the one area where HAL is going through some changes now, and clarity is lacking is in their weakest area, entertainment.

 

Totally agree. Entertainment is their weakest. Well, entertainment and the ridiculous website 😉 

 

I also think HAL is going thru some changes in terms of offering two different products. One for longer legendary voyages and one for the 'bus runs'. 

 

I am also underwhelmed by the fleet in general, but not underwhelmed enough to keep me from booking HAL for the longer itineraries. I had an amazing time on the Kdam even though I think that ship design is quite poor. I don't always cruise for the ship, but when I do, it likely won't be on  HAL. 

 

But for the longer, more unique itineraries, it's very hard to beat the value HAL is offering. 

 

 

Edited July 27 by BermudaBound2014

[TRLD]

8 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Totally agree. Entertainment is their weakest. Well, entertainment and the ridiculous website 😉 

 

I also think HAL is going thru some changes in terms of offering two different products. One for longer legendary voyages and one for the 'bus runs'. 

 

I am also underwhelmed by the fleet in general, but not underwhelmed enough to keep me from booking HAL for the longer itineraries. I had an amazing time on the Kdam even though I think that ship design is quite poor. I don't always cruise for the ship, but when I do, it likely won't be on  HAL. 

We book HAL for the itineraries.

 

We find the food to be better than on Princess or Celebrity. While Oceania is supposed to have great food, and they do have some good food features, The best MDR meal I have had on any cruise line was on HAL.

 

 We find service on HAL ships to be competitive with their competition. 

 

Their fares tend to be higher than Princess, depending upon cruise may be a bit lower or higher then Celebrity. HAL is the one line where we will get a package if we book early and get the better features.

 

HAL lags behind some of the others in the ship design, but mostly because they were design to be true to their past and provide continuity.

 

Most of their differences between long and short are in 2 areas, as far as we can tell, per day fares (longer is higher) and entertainment which is even more lacking on short cruises.

Edited July 27 by TRLD

[BermudaBound2014]

25 minutes ago, TRLD said:

We book HAL for the itineraries.

 

We find the food to be better than on Princess or Celebrity. While Oceania is supposed to have great food, and they do have some good food features, The best MDR meal I have had on any cruise line was on HAL.

 

 We find service on HAL ships to be competitive with their competition. 

 

Their fares tend to be higher than Princess, depending upon cruise may be a bit lower or higher then Celebrity. HAL is the one line where we will get a package if we book early and get the better features.

 

HAL lags behind some of the others in the ship design, but mostly because they were design to be true to their past and provide continuity.

 

Most of their differences between long and short are in 2 areas, as far as we can tell, per day fares (longer is higher) and entertainment which is even more lacking on short cruises.

 

What do you know. I almost agree 100% 🙂

 

I would add that food appears to be another area with discrepancies. On the 35 night cruise, I was told that the food budget had been increased substantially. We were offered lobster and escargot on the buffet all five gala nights. People were walking away with piles (and piles) of lobster on their plate. Not saying cruise lobster is any good, just that i don't believe lobster is offered as a buffet item on shorter cruises? We also had prime rib about every 4/5 night and had fresh grilled options of fish, beef, and chicken every night. From what I have read that isn't available on shorter cruises (although I think the person squawking about lack of fresh grill item was just wrong). We also had two (three?) ice cream socials where the gelato station was equipped with several types of ice cream (none gelato) and TONS of different toppings and fancy cones. I don't believe this is an option on shorter cruises?? I could go on with more examples but I think you get the idea. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27 by BermudaBound2014

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

What do you know. I almost agree 100% 🙂

 

I would add that food appears to be another area with discrepancies. On the 35 night cruise, I was told that the food budget had been increased substantially. We were offered lobster and escargot on the buffet all five gala nights. People were walking away with piles (and piles) of lobster on their plate. Not saying cruise lobster is any good, just that i don't believe lobster is offered as a buffet item on shorter cruises? We also had prime rib about every 4/5 night and had fresh grilled options of fish, beef, and chicken every night. From what I have read that isn't available on shorter cruises (although I think the person squawking about lack of fresh grill item was just wrong). We also had two (three?) ice cream socials where the gelato station was equipped with several types of ice cream (none gelato) and TONS of different toppings and fancy cones. I don't believe this is an option on shorter cruises?? I could go on with more examples but I think you get the idea. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Might be a change since my last longer cruise last year. It was 21 days, but was not a Grand Voyage.  Will see this fall.

 

If it is consistent on long itineraries then I would consider it to be a good thing.

Edited July 28 by TRLD

[BermudaBound2014]

17 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Might be a change since my last longer cruise last year. It was 21 days, but was not a Grand Voyage.  Will see this fall.

 

If it is consistent on long itineraries then I would consider it to be a good thing.

 

I believe it is only the legendary cruises that have the extended menu options. I'm sailing on a 22 night (non-legendary Antarctica) in January and immediately following with February 35 night Tahiti ( that cruise is a legendary). 

 

We've had this discussion on several online platforms and best I can tell being legendary is the difference but I will be able to reply with first hand knowledge in a few months. 

 

 

[kevingastreich]

On 7/24/2024 at 1:43 AM, HappyInVan said:

Not a surprise.

 

Larger new ships are cheaper to operate, and come with all the features that new cruisers expect.

 

In addition, it is cheaper to run LNG ships. One estimate I read was that Low Sulphur Fuel was 40% more expensive than standard fuel; whilst LNG was 20% less expensive. So, no-brainer   to use LNG to lower costs and meet emissions targets.

 

The problem for older ships is that they become even more uncompetitive to run. What will CCL do?

 

LNG is not widely available in all cruise ports so that is a consideration for new builds..  I got this from a Chief Engineer on a HAL ship.