Emails from p and o

[TigerB]

19 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

As a matter of interest are we being told if they consider the cabins unsuitable you either get cancelled or have to move to a possibly more expensive cabin, ie if your inside is decreed no good and you have to go up grades?

 

From the wording of the new policy, that you need to be in a fully accessible cabin or selected suite or mini-suite if you have powered mobility device, yes.  

As I have written in my earlier post (rant), we are in a partially adapted inside cabin on a future cruise, and our lass uses a powered wheelchair. Under the new guidelines, P&O are stating that cabin is no longer suitable for us, despite it being perfectly suitable for us on four previous sailings.

[Selbourne]

5 minutes ago, TigerB said:

As I have written in my earlier post (rant), we are in a partially adapted inside cabin on a future cruise, and our lass uses a powered wheelchair. Under the new guidelines, P&O are stating that cabin is no longer suitable for us, despite it being perfectly suitable for us on four previous sailings.

As well as being infuriating for you, this policy change, as with the insistence that all scooter users must book accessible cabins, is infuriating for us too. If we cannot get a fully accessible cabin then we simply cannot go on the cruise, yet those who don’t really need them are being forced into one which reduces the availability. 

[TigerB]

2 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

As well as being infuriating for you, this policy change, as with the insistence that all scooter users must book accessible cabins, is infuriating for us too. If we cannot get a fully accessible cabin then we simply cannot go on the cruise, yet those who don’t really need them are being forced into one which reduces the availability. 

 

Exactly!  

Both you and I, as husbands and carers of a partner with a seriously debilitating and life limiting disability, know only too well how hard it is navigating through life as it is, and trying to ensure our partners are not disadvantaged any more than they already are; so this new policy by P&O is a real kick in the teeth.

[terrierjohn]

8 minutes ago, TigerB said:

 

Exactly!  

Both you and I, as husbands and carers of a partner with a seriously debilitating and life limiting disability, know only too well how hard it is navigating through life as it is, and trying to ensure our partners are not disadvantaged any more than they already are; so this new policy by P&O is a real kick in the teeth.

If you read down almost to the end you will find the following, it would make more sense to have that as a mich earlier paragraph.

 

"If you’ve filled it in previously and your circumstances have changed, please fill it in again. If your circumstances have not changed, you don't need to do anything".

[Selbourne]

11 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If you read down almost to the end you will find the following, it would make more sense to have that as a mich earlier paragraph.

 

"If you’ve filled it in previously and your circumstances have changed, please fill it in again. If your circumstances have not changed, you don't need to do anything".

My email from Cunard said that John, but when I phoned our TA (I think you use the same one) they said that the one we had previously completed had been superseded by a newer form and, as such, Cunard had it down as us not having completed the questionnaire at all. Hence my comments earlier that the email is incorrect. 

[daiB]

3 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

My email from Cunard said that John, but when I phoned our TA (I think you use the same one) they said that the one we had previously completed had been superseded by a newer form and, as such, Cunard had it down as us not having completed the questionnaire at all. Hence my comments earlier that the email is incorrect. 

The new form has been in place for some months i Have filled this in for our cruises. I have an evack chair booked for each one with an invoice from the company indicating that. If you have filled a form asking about the weight of the user for the evac chair then you should be up to date. 

[TigerB]

24 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If you read down almost to the end you will find the following, it would make more sense to have that as a mich earlier paragraph.

 

"If you’ve filled it in previously and your circumstances have changed, please fill it in again. If your circumstances have not changed, you don't need to do anything".

 

I'm aware of that John, and no, our circumstances haven't changed; our lass will still be using the same powered wheelchair that she has used previously when we have stayed in a partially adapted inside cabin. However, the revised policy states, as I have quoted in post #12, that a guest with a powered mobility device must be now booked into a fully accessible cabin, or selected suite or mini-suite.  The email sent to us specifically states that we must resubmit the questionnaire, listing an alternative device, or submit a contact form to advise that we cannot bring an alternative device.   

[TigerB]

3 minutes ago, daiB said:

The new form has been in place for some months i Have filled this in for our cruises. I have an evack chair booked for each one with an invoice from the company indicating that. If you have filled a form asking about the weight of the user for the evac chair then you should be up to date. 

 

That is correct, the on-board questionnaire referred to has been in place for a few months, and it has not changed.

However, the policy regarding mobility devices has changed. As per post #12, powered wheelchairs and mobility scooters are now classified in the same group, and users of them must now be in booked into a fully accessible cabin.

The emails that some, including us, have received advises of the new policy, and requests that a questionnaire be resubmitted where applicable, indicating a change of mobility device. 

[Selbourne]

2 minutes ago, daiB said:

The new form has been in place for some months i Have filled this in for our cruises. I have an evack chair booked for each one with an invoice from the company indicating that. If you have filled a form asking about the weight of the user for the evac chair then you should be up to date. 

We filled the form in last November Dai and ticked that we needed a evac chair with the relevant weight. We had no way of knowing that the form was the old one and was no longer valid. The email even said that if we’d completed it previously we didn’t need to do it again. It was only by me phoning the TA due to the publicised problems that I discovered that this was incorrect and we did actually need to do it again. This was Cunard, but the email and the system is identical to those issues reported above re P&O.
 

At least in the case of P&O you can see if an evac chair has been allocated by clicking on the first day of the cruise calendar in the cruise Personaliser. For some reason, even though it’s the same IT system, Cunard bookings don’t show this, but thankfully the booking confirmation does. 

[daiB]

Just now, TigerB said:

 

That is correct, the on-board questionnaire referred to has been in place for a few months, and it has not changed.

However, the policy regarding mobility devices has changed. As per post #12, powered wheelchairs and mobility scooters are now classified in the same group, and users of them must now be in booked into a fully accessible cabin.

The emails that some, including us, have received advises of the new policy, and requests that a questionnaire be resubmitted where applicable, indicating a change of mobility device. 

Yes my reply was for Selbourne who should be OK. You on the other hand seem to be badly affected.

[daiB]

2 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

We filled the form in last November Dai and ticked that we needed a evac chair with the relevant weight. We had no way of knowing that the form was the old one and was no longer valid. The email even said that if we’d completed it previously we didn’t need to do it again. It was only by me phoning the TA due to the publicised problems that I discovered that this was incorrect and we did actually need to do it again. This was Cunard, but the email and the system is identical to those issues reported above re P&O.
 

At least in the case of P&O you can see if an evac chair has been allocated by clicking on the first day of the cruise calendar in the cruise Personaliser. For some reason, even though it’s the same IT system, Cunard bookings don’t show this, but thankfully the booking confirmation does. 

I dont think it was an old one. I am on holiday now so all my paperwork is at home so I can’t check the dates. The last one I filled in was 24/4/24 and I think it was the same as the ones in Nov 23.

[TigerB]

13 minutes ago, daiB said:

Yes my reply was for Selbourne who should be OK. You on the other hand seem to be badly affected.

 

Ah yes, I see that now. Having re-read his post I note that he completed one last November, so it may have been in the old format.

Edited September 3 by TigerB

[TigerB]

24 minutes ago, daiB said:

I dont think it was an old one. I am on holiday now so all my paperwork is at home so I can’t check the dates. The last one I filled in was 24/4/24 and I think it was the same as the ones in Nov 23.

 

I can save you a job.  I have just checked one I submitted on 30th November 2023, and it is the same one that is in use now; the revision date is shown as November 2023.  To the best of my knowledge, I was prompted to resubmit using that form because the one I had submitted a few months earlier was the old one.

If Selbourne's TA advised him that he had submitted an old form, although he submitted it in November 2023, it could be that it was submitted just before the new version came into force.

[Mrsmas]

I would advise everyone affected to contact disability rights enquiries@disabilityrightsuk.org as I have done. Booked my cruise when they came out bought an electric wheelchair to fit their requirements and now they change their policy. I'm not interested in another cabin or another date specifically wanted the conservatory cabin as It was something different 

[Selbourne]

7 hours ago, TigerB said:

 

I can save you a job.  I have just checked one I submitted on 30th November 2023, and it is the same one that is in use now; the revision date is shown as November 2023.  To the best of my knowledge, I was prompted to resubmit using that form because the one I had submitted a few months earlier was the old one.

If Selbourne's TA advised him that he had submitted an old form, although he submitted it in November 2023, it could be that it was submitted just before the new version came into force.

Having completed the ‘new’ form yesterday with the ‘old’ one in my hand as reference (for wheelchair dimensions etc) I could only spot one minor difference, where if you want something like a raised toilet seat you tick a box rather than state that you want one in a free text box. Why that tiny change would render the submitted “old’ form redundant I have no idea, but I have done as requested 🙄 Reports of people being refused boarding at Southampton continue, so I wasn’t going to take any chances. I hope that you manage to resolve your situation, but I fear that it may be a “computer says no” situation!

[molecrochip]

I don’t know what’s going on. Confusion internally.

 

Important that the online needs form via the cruise personaliser is complete. The older manual pdf forms might not have carried over.

 

When you now make new bookings, evac chairs are added to day one of the itinerary on the booking confirmation.

 

It feels like there is an active push to reduce the number of mobility devices on board…. but I have no proof.

Edited September 4 by molecrochip

[TigerB]

Thanks for the input, Moley.👍🏻

 

I thought that perhaps the change in policy may be to try and reduce the number of mobility scooters, or at least stop them being left outside cabins.  After all, and at the risk of incurring the wrath of others, shouting about non-visible disabilities, there are a minority who don't need them and try and abuse the system. I've seen it, I know Selbourne has, and I'm sure others with genuinely disabled relatives have. 

Efforts to reduce non-essential mobility devices onboard is probably a good thing, but to include compact power chairs, like our lass uses, in the same category as mobility scooters is, in my view, an arbitrary decision, possibly made by someone without genuine experience of the needs of a severely disabled person, that will have a detrimental effect on many passengers, not least the stress caused to those passengers and their carers.

 

Your comment about internal confusion suggests to me that it has not been properly thought out, and has been implemented without the knowledge of, or without the further training of many customer services agents, who will undoubtedly suffer the wrath of angry passengers. 

 

[TigerB]

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Having completed the ‘new’ form yesterday with the ‘old’ one in my hand as reference (for wheelchair dimensions etc) I could only spot one minor difference, where if you want something like a raised toilet seat you tick a box rather than state that you want one in a free text box. Why that tiny change would render the submitted “old’ form redundant I have no idea, but I have done as requested 🙄 Reports of people being refused boarding at Southampton continue, so I wasn’t going to take any chances. 

 

You do right. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, others could fall foul of thinking they don't need to submit a new one, and risk being denied boarding. It's all down to very poor communication from P&O, not explaining properly just why a new submission is needed.

 

 

2 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I hope that you manage to resolve your situation, but I fear that it may be a “computer says no” situation!

 

I fear you're probably right, especially given Moley's comment about internal confusion.  Many a time I have spoken with a customer service agent who cannot effectively answer my questions about accessibility issues. That is a direct result of P&O, and other operators too, getting rid of dedicated special assistant agents and expecting general CSAs to deal with potentially complex issues without proper training.

[Mrsmas]

27 minutes ago, TigerB said:

Thanks for the input, Moley.👍🏻

 

I thought that perhaps the change in policy may be to try and reduce the number of mobility scooters, or at least stop them being left outside cabins.  After all, and at the risk of incurring the wrath of others, shouting about non-visible disabilities, there are a minority who don't need them and try and abuse the system. I've seen it, I know Selbourne has, and I'm sure others with genuinely disabled relatives have. 

Efforts to reduce non-essential mobility devices onboard is probably a good thing, but to include compact power chairs, like our lass uses, in the same category as mobility scooters is, in my view, an arbitrary decision, possibly made by someone without genuine experience of the needs of a severely disabled person, that will have a detrimental effect on many passengers, not least the stress caused to those passengers and their carers.

 

Your comment about internal confusion suggests to me that it has not been properly thought out, and has been implemented without the knowledge of, or without the further training of many customer services agents, who will undoubtedly suffer the wrath of angry passengers. 

 

You do know that some people in wheelchairs can walk it's not faking i can walk around a cabin and to an extent a small distance round the ship but need a wheelchair off the ship for enjoying excursions. I have an electric wheelchair which is basically a manual wheelchair with a battery pack that you remove to charge but that's not even acceptable. Their treatment of the disabled is shocking and for that reason I will never choose this cruise line again

 

[terrierjohn]

9 hours ago, Mrsmas said:

You do know that some people in wheelchairs can walk it's not faking i can walk around a cabin and to an extent a small distance round the ship but need a wheelchair off the ship for enjoying excursions. I have an electric wheelchair which is basically a manual wheelchair with a battery pack that you remove to charge but that's not even acceptable. Their treatment of the disabled is shocking and for that reason I will never choose this cruise line again

 

I do agree that the way P&O is handling this mobility wheelchair and scooter issue, as well as the allocation of evacuation chairs, shows an amazing lack of understanding of the needs of their disabled passengers. It may well be part of a desire to control the number of mobility devices, but as usual P&Os heavy handed way of doing things is making things far worse.

They really need to think about asking their disabled passengers to get a clearer understanding of just what their needs and requirements are, rather than going off half *****, as usual.

[david63]

This whole business of wheelchairs/scooters/walking sticks/accessibility reminds of when I was at work.

 

If there was a problem then those who did not understand the problem (a.k.a. senior managers) brought in consultants who had even less understanding of the problem, but as these consultants were being paid megabucks to provide a solution (to the problem that they did not understand) then it was a given that their solution was the right answer!

 

Six months down the road when the dust had settled those of us who understood the problem quietly got on with the job and sorted it all out.

[TigerB]

13 hours ago, Mrsmas said:

You do know that some people in wheelchairs can walk it's not faking i can walk around a cabin and to an extent a small distance round the ship but need a wheelchair off the ship for enjoying excursions.

 

 

Yes, I am well aware that there are many wheelchair users who are not full time users, and the same for mobility scooters.  My comment is not a blind generalisation, it is based on observations. Here are just two examples from recent cruising history:

January 2023 - Arvia: Guy on rented scooter leaves it near the golf nets on the Panorama deck, walks to and then skips up the nearby steps, and joins me and my sister on the sky-walk. Afterwards, he plays a round of mini golf like he's Jack Nicklaus.

November 2023 - Iona:  Lady in her 50s(?) on a rented scooter; we saw her quite a few times and she often had difficulty driving it. A male in his 20s/30s, her son perhaps(?) sometimes had to take over the controls for her. At the end of the cruise we saw the same couple in the disabled area of the CPS car park. She alights from the scooter and runs about forty yards to her car; he gets on the scooter and rides off on it, presumably to return it.

 

I say it as I see it.  And as I see it, with the newly implemented rules, these are two people who would now have to be in a fully accessible cabin, thus preventing a passenger with a genuine need for such a cabin being able to take a cruise.

[Mrsmas]

29 minutes ago, TigerB said:

 

Yes, I am well aware that there are many wheelchair users who are not full time users, and the same for mobility scooters.  My comment is not a blind generalisation, it is based on observations. Here are just two examples from recent cruising history:

January 2023 - Arvia: Guy on rented scooter leaves it near the golf nets on the Panorama deck, walks to and then skips up the nearby steps, and joins me and my sister on the sky-walk. Afterwards, he plays a round of mini golf like he's Jack Nicklaus.

November 2023 - Iona:  Lady in her 50s(?) on a rented scooter; we saw her quite a few times and she often had difficulty driving it. A male in his 20s/30s, her son perhaps(?) sometimes had to take over the controls for her. At the end of the cruise we saw the same couple in the disabled area of the CPS car park. She alights from the scooter and runs about forty yards to her car; he gets on the scooter and rides off on it, presumably to return it.

 

I say it as I see it.  And as I see it, with the newly implemented rules, these are two people who would now have to be in a fully accessible cabin, thus preventing a passenger with a genuine need for such a cabin being able to take a cruise.

OH I know what you mean I think a better way would be ensuring people have a blue badge/medical diagnosis for a wheelchair. as an ambulant wheelchair user it's one reason why I always avoid fully accessible rooms as I see those that are permanent wheelchair users need those rooms. I have booked an accessible cabin on sky Princess for 2026 because I will benefit from the bathroom and shower facilities and this situation has left me worried that other companies will follow suit.

[kalos]

@TigerB The problem is even when the need is genuine ,some family folk

now decide they are ok to use mums/Nans scooter for a bit of fun and even post

it on social media ...

 

See .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj1pq98xFuE&t=4861s

 

Also https://youtu.be/lj1pq98xFuE?si=K20GLASL4je-WdzQ&t=2566

 

 

To be fair they are not alone seen this loads of times .

 

[Mymarina Bay]

Today I was in discussion with my TA and by chance this issue was raised.  He did say he thought PO were tightening the rules due to an incident last October on Iona when there was a fire due to a lithium battery pack setting alight. (Un)Fortunately it happened in port but I believe the ship was evacuated while it was extinguished however it could so easily have happened at sea.