mcrcruiser Posted October 5 Author #51 Share Posted October 5 4 minutes ago, fizzy said: Would it be correct that the amount of onboard crew have to be increased and housed depending on how many handicapped people are sailing? In case of emergency, I would imagine more hands on deck would be required for physical assistance and that might present a considerable cost factor for the company. Crews are trained for emergencies all the time on all cruise ships . It is not a extra cost but a must have trained crew . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Niagarawine Posted October 5 #52 Share Posted October 5 Lots of good points, thinking I may cancel if I am unable to navigate safely , don’t like to put extra work on the crew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Niagarawine Posted October 5 #53 Share Posted October 5 I spent a lot of time in our cabin and ordered room service ,then enjoyed balcony. I am booked on a longer cruise while awaiting surgery which I thought would be done by then, you just never know here in Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted October 5 #54 Share Posted October 5 11 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said: Crews are trained for emergencies all the time on all cruise ships . It is not a extra cost but a must have trained crew . I actually think that crew can only be stretched so far in an emergency and lots of extra equipment for lots of special needs requires lots of extra time and diligence and manpower. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrcruiser Posted October 5 Author #55 Share Posted October 5 (edited) 5 minutes ago, fizzy said: I actually think that crew can only be stretched so far in an emergency and lots of extra equipment for lots of special needs requires lots of extra time and diligence and manpower. Again they have that special training & supervision .. It may even be a US Coast Guard requirement in order for any cruise ship to sail in US waters like Alaska , West coastal ie /The 12 mile limit is still US waters Edited October 5 by mcrcruiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrcruiser Posted October 5 Author #56 Share Posted October 5 according to doctors if you live long enough you can get arthritis & arthritis will present mobility issues .Thus ,a great percentage of aging people will have mobility issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman48 Posted October 5 #57 Share Posted October 5 21 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said: Keep an eye on this policy. Some of the Carnival brands are tightening restrictions on "mobility aids." There has been lots of posts on this as well as a few podcasts. So much so that Carnival's ambassador addressed it. The issue and reason some people were turned away was more to the fact that their scooters would not fit through the door of a standard cabin, and not the fact they did not complete the paperwork. Here is HAL FAQ link. Can I use my personal mobility equipment on board? (hollandamerica.com) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fizzy Posted October 5 #58 Share Posted October 5 41 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said: Again they have that special training & supervision .. It may even be a US Coast Guard requirement in order for any cruise ship to sail in US waters like Alaska , West coastal ie /The 12 mile limit is still US waters You are missing my point. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare 3rdGenCunarder Posted October 5 #59 Share Posted October 5 1 hour ago, fizzy said: Would it be correct that the amount of onboard crew have to be increased and housed depending on how many handicapped people are sailing? In case of emergency, I would imagine more hands on deck would be required for physical assistance and that might present a considerable cost factor for the company. I don't think it's a cost factor as much as availability. They can't just "staff up" if they have extra passengers who will need assistance. And they have a limited number of evacuation chairs. HAL has to operate within the bounds of their limitations. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmoo here Posted October 5 #60 Share Posted October 5 38 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said: HAL has to operate within the bounds of their limitations. From the website I quoted earlier: Foreign ships must also follow international maritime laws and guidelines. If a foreign ship’s obedience to the ADA would violate some other obligation or threaten ship safety, it is permitted to violate ADA requirements. So, in some circumstances the ship is not required to fully comply with the ADA. I'm one of those older, less mobile people (recent hip replacement). As my abilities lessen it's on me to work with how things are done to accommodate me, not on the other person/business to do so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackduck59 Posted October 5 #61 Share Posted October 5 (edited) Just for a moment let's talk about an actual emergency at sea. Think of it as a fire drill on land. Remember what a cluster those were? Now add a bunch of scooters into the evacuation paths which may be dark and full of smoke. The elevators won't be available so now these guests need to be carried down the stairs and lifted into life boats. I don't think that making allowances for even more mobility challenged guests is necessarily very safe. As others have mentioned there are special cabins available and I suspect staffing is such to accomodate according to those numbers. I think there comes a point when one must make the appropriate decission that our mobility issues have made it inappropriate to cruise. Edited October 5 by Blackduck59 7 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeh10641 Posted October 5 #62 Share Posted October 5 23 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said: Widening the doorway of a standard cabin won't help. In most cabins, you enter through a little hallway with closets to one side and the bathroom to the other. That hallway is the width of the existing doorway. If you widen the doorway, the closets would have to be removed, and then storage would have to go somewhere else, which would limit movement somewhere else in the cabin. I of course forgot the hallway inside the cabin! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sojodave Posted October 5 #63 Share Posted October 5 Unfortunately, I had a fall that caused nerve damage in my leg. I reserved a scooter through Special Needs At Sea. They said that they would be able to take the arms of the scooter to fit into a Veranda cabin. I hope they are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeh10641 Posted October 5 #64 Share Posted October 5 18 hours ago, shiner6 said: Well, if this is indeed the case, then it looks like she should have planned in advance and not expect accommodations based on her handicap. Maybe she could try another cruise where ADA rooms are available. It was quite uncomfortable on the Zuiderdam cruise in August, trying to navigate the hallways with scooters left parked there. Some of us have mobility issues that do not require a scooter, but still need an unencumbered hallway to navigate. I know the OP and he was on the cruise in question but health issues required a cancelation. Now he is trying to rebook it. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modem9 Posted October 5 #65 Share Posted October 5 We use a mobility scooter and always book an accessible cabin. If one isn't available, we look for another sailing. It is very frustrating at times but that is our requirement. We decided years ago to purchase our own scooter that is narrow and folds once in the cabin. Still holds up to 300 pounds. While the accessible doorway does not matter when using the scooter, we cannot use a bathtub and need the low floor shower. Fortunately, HAL offers several other rooms that have a roll in shower even though not fully accessible. For those who rent a large scooter each cruise, I suggest considering the purchase of a folding travel scooter. It made all the difference for us and saved money as well. I wish the cruise ships had more accessible cabins available but that is not economically feasible. To be honest, I wish they would place some recliners or even lift chairs in some cabins. I would pay extra for that. Even HAL with its older cruisers doesn't have common room chairs or pool loungers that work for those who can't sit close to the ground. I would love to have a more comfortable place to just sit. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackduck59 Posted October 5 #66 Share Posted October 5 7 minutes ago, jeh10641 said: I know the OP and he was on the cruise in question but health issues required a cancelation. Now he is trying to rebook it. Jim While this is an unfortunate situation. I suspect that at this late date it wouldn't matter how many accessable cabins the ship had, they would all be booked. It is a simple fact that there are only so many accomodations that can be made and after a given point we all miss the boat. We just booked a cruise tour yesterday (ironically on Koningsdam) and there were no cabins in the class we wanted in the location we wanted so we had to go up a class to get the location. Even as relatively able bodied individuals we were faced with a choice; pay for the more expensive cabin or don't. Others are faced with the fact there are no special cabins left for them, and suggesting that HAL or any cruise line for that matter needs to accomodate them seems pretty entitled to many. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeh10641 Posted October 5 #67 Share Posted October 5 1 minute ago, Blackduck59 said: While this is an unfortunate situation. I suspect that at this late date it wouldn't matter how many accessable cabins the ship had, they would all be booked. It is a simple fact that there are only so many accomodations that can be made and after a given point we all miss the boat. We just booked a cruise tour yesterday (ironically on Koningsdam) and there were no cabins in the class we wanted in the location we wanted so we had to go up a class to get the location. Even as relatively able bodied individuals we were faced with a choice; pay for the more expensive cabin or don't. Others are faced with the fact there are no special cabins left for them, and suggesting that HAL or any cruise line for that matter needs to accomodate them seems pretty entitled to many. I agree in principle but extenuating circumstances sometimes alter reality. I book our cruises 18 months or two years in advance. Once I had to cancel for back surgery. Once I had to cancel because of THE COVID pandemic (not my choice!). Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackduck59 Posted October 5 #68 Share Posted October 5 (edited) 9 minutes ago, jeh10641 said: I agree in principle but extenuating circumstances sometimes alter reality. I book our cruises 18 months or two years in advance. Once I had to cancel for back surgery. Once I had to cancel because of THE COVID pandemic (not my choice!). Jim I think many people had to cancel cruises due to Covid, We planned the same trip twice and were cancelled both times for covid. We will finally make that voyage (which is now much longer) early next year, 4 years after the original date. I think many people have had to cancel cruises due to unfortunate circumstances; I doubt many would expect that a specific type of cabin would be available to them when they happen to want to book it. Edited October 5 by Blackduck59 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopree Posted October 5 #69 Share Posted October 5 I read this post and others by the OP. Within the replies are many common sense solutions. When someone poses a question we should assume that they are interested in hearing a solution or a work around that others have implemented. This does not appear to be the case with the OP. With single minded determination they seem to feel that by repeating the same questions a solution will be found that suits them. It won't. If you use a full size scooter you need to book an accessible room. If you need an accesible room you need to book early or perhaps after final payment as there maybe cancellations. I apologize if I seem hard hearted and insensitive. I assure you I am neither. My husband is a full time wheelchair user. We can only go on a cruise if we book a fully accessible room. He uses a manual wheelchair which I push for him. We accept the limitations that this places on us and feel privileged that going on a cruise is something that is even possible. We expect nothing extra from the crew and appreciate every kindness shown to us. Life can change quickly perhaps the focus should be on real problems. Again, apologies if I have offended anyone. 16 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Niagarawine Posted October 5 #70 Share Posted October 5 1 hour ago, sojodave said: Unfortunately, I had a fall that caused nerve damage in my leg. I reserved a scooter through Special Needs At Sea. They said that they would be able to take the arms of the scooter to fit into a Veranda cabin. I hope they are right. I had them and indeed the scooter did fir inside the cabin, no worries 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner6 Posted October 5 #71 Share Posted October 5 19 minutes ago, Mopree said: I read this post and others by the OP. Within the replies are many common sense solutions. When someone poses a question we should assume that they are interested in hearing a solution or a work around that others have implemented. This does not appear to be the case with the OP. With single minded determination they seem to feel that by repeating the same questions a solution will be found that suits them. It won't. If you use a full size scooter you need to book an accessible room. If you need an accesible room you need to book early or perhaps after final payment as there maybe cancellations. I apologize if I seem hard hearted and insensitive. I assure you I am neither. My husband is a full time wheelchair user. We can only go on a cruise if we book a fully accessible room. He uses a manual wheelchair which I push for him. We accept the limitations that this places on us and feel privileged that going on a cruise is something that is even possible. We expect nothing extra from the crew and appreciate every kindness shown to us. Life can change quickly perhaps the focus should be on real problems. Again, apologies if I have offended anyone. You are so correct. I worked as a bedside RN for 50 years and I can verify that hospitals are not equipped as well as cruise ships to handle emergency evacuations as far as having qualified people to move mobility impaired guests. It is just not cost effective to staff at that level. Some of these guests require assisted living amenities. Perhaps another form of travel would be better suited for them. I am not trying to dismiss handicapped people from cruising. I do believe that there comes a point where it is no longer in everyone's best interest for them to travel in this manner. It is up to each individual to determine their level of compliance with standards. 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunther1 Posted October 6 #72 Share Posted October 6 Like the thoughtless individuals that insist on leaving their room service trays in the hallway, there are those that leave their wheelchairs out there. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrcruiser Posted October 7 Author #73 Share Posted October 7 19 hours ago, Gunther1 said: Like the thoughtless individuals that insist on leaving their room service trays in the hallway, there are those that leave their wheelchairs out there. Ervhave taqken over 100 cruises in the past when we were able . We never saw wheel chairs unattended in the hall ways .We have seen empty food trays from time to time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrcruiser Posted October 7 Author #74 Share Posted October 7 We understand other peoples points of view on this issue . Should it ever happen that you need mobility assistance plaease remeber this discussion . The bottom line was with HAL personnel asigning a vista suite & telling me my electric scooter of 21 inches will fit , It was just too close tp the entry foor & walls cin the cabin where as the real handicap cabins have wide doors which are also automatica;;y controlled & very adequate space When it comes to a real emergency in any location ,it seems to me that there are those people who care & make the effort to assist others & there are those who only think about themselves . This has been evidenced numerous times in history . There truly is not any more to say about this subject . Perhaps some future generations will find things different that what is now the norm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsurman Posted October 7 #75 Share Posted October 7 7 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said: There truly is not any more to say about this subject . Want to make a bet? $5 you post something similar soon... 4 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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