Raising Our Fare (four threads combined into one)

[ekerr19]

I really hesitate to jump in here, I read the first few pages only - having booked HAL cruises for the past six years (about 12 of them) and having had parents who booked our first HAL cruise in 1984 -I think you are way off base blaming HAL... we have used the same TA in Seattle for many years. When I book, I get an INVOICE that states the amount I agree to pay at that time. I pay my deposit based upon the number of cruisers, BUT I have until about 90 days out to pay the balance....

 

If I find a lower fare, I email my TA with the speciifics, if the lower fare is valid (it's only happened 2-3 times in all these years) my TA refunds the difference (or lowers the final price)....

[Kevinc6969]

I also will not use HAL in the future if they dont honor the price I have "paid in full" as my email states. They need to step up and make a decision.

We need to find out how to contact the president of HAL directly and everybody send him an email.

An earlier poster said thats why they only book directly thru the cruiseline....I guess you ruined that theory also. thanks

[Kevinc6969]

OK...I got an invoice emailed to me from TA showing "paid in full"....i then confirmed the booking number with HAL. Now a week later they show I owe an additional $1000???? I guess having a paid infull invoice doesnt mean anything to HAL??

[BillandJen]

Hello:

 

I just got a call from my agent concerning the 1/27 Noordam sailing. Agent is claiming HAL had a glitch....due to this post I already was aware of this matter but did not let her know what I know. I told her..and she agreed this is totally unacceptable. If a mistake was make HAL should eat it. If a mistake was made that is what they have the errors and ommisions insurnace for. The agent stated that the VPs were working with HAL to resolve the matter.....she did not have an ETA. She said she was leaving for a cruise on this FRIDAY....I told her I expected an answer much before then.

 

I booked on 9/12, HAL charged my CC the deposit, and I have a Booking number. I also told her I was looking at pricing for about 1 week before booking and the pricing was consistant during that time leading to when I booked....ie it was not a short period of time the glitch occured.

 

Overall, I am as most of you very uncomfortable with the outcome of this matter

[bankerbabe]

As of this posting there have been 5,687 views on this and a related post.

 

There are only 4 posters who claim they have been impacted by some kind of problem.

 

None of these posters have a history with this board.

 

At least one of these posts, the first, appears to be more of an issue with timing of action on the TA's part, than anything. This poster seems to have moved on and is actively planning her cruise and asking questions that can be answered by those who frequent these boards.

 

And the rest is, noise.

 

 

I think that as time rolls on and more people begin contacting their TAs and/or HAL directly we will see more than just 4 posters and certainly more than just noise.

 

Like I said previously, most people don't even realize that they have a problem because HAL isn't talking. Things are going to get really ugly and really noisy when everyone else finds out they have a problem. According to my husband's conversation with our TA yesterday (we've been calling at least once each day trying to push a resolution) there are 500 bookings at their agency alone. They are still claiming it was a pricing glitch in the HAL computers. But then again, our situation is complicated by the timing of the deposit, etc. etc. etc.

 

I'm letting my husband deal with this mess now, I'm too busy at work now to deal with all of this. I've got enough stress as it is. In the event that we do take the cruise anyway, I've got to begin making plans.

 

I appreciate everyone's advice, opinions, and the attention that you all have given this matter.

 

I've been using these boards for several years, by the way, under various names. We cruise about once every two years and I use these boards during my planning phase and then I post reviews immediately after each cruise - posting in between just makes me yearn for the seas too much. I've changed email addresses several times in the past few years - I get tired of spam and the filters only work so well - and since months can go by before I post to these boards again, I lose track of my password, my old email account gets cancelled for non-use, etc. so I just set up another user name. I am new to the HAL boards, though, as we've cruised NCL (didn't like it much, by the way) and Princess before. Our Carnival cruise was a freebee through my husband's employer.

[serendipity1499]

Betty - why the hostility and snippy-ness?

 

I *did* read the entire thread, contrary to your inferrals to the contrary.

 

Whether it was or wasn't a mistake on HAL's part, the rate did go up from the time it was booked. This is fact. Whether that rate was or wasn't supposed to have ever been loaded is another question.

 

Second - your comments about companies not honouring pricing mistakes. perhaps in your 35 years of business, you've never pushed that hard for companies to honour mistakes - particularly when it is not clear that there was a mistake in the first place!

 

A trip over to the flyertalk website will reveal MANY MANY threads on airline pricing errors, and the (in some cases) hundreds of people that purposely exploit them. In some cases, they are OBVIOUSLY erroneus system errors - first class from Toronto - Hawaii on Air Canada for $1.01 round trip for instance.

 

Yet, despite this, in many cases even when the error is OBVIOUSLY a mistake, many travel suppliers (including Air Canada in the instance above) DO honour the travel booked.

 

In the case with HAL, the error was not neccessarily an obvious mistake, it could have just been a deep discount sale. The Agent certainly didn't say "oh, this price is obviously wrong - it's way to low". So I cannot agree with you on the fact that suppliers will automatically not honour mistakes they have made. And $300-$400 a passenger is not a big deal in the big picture. I've split errors far greater than that before now. And that's in my humble 13 years in the business...

 

In any event, to get back on topic, it seems like only a handful of people have been affected, and I hope for everyone including the OP that they get the rate they signed up for and they enjoy their cruise!

 

 

I did not realize that I was being snippy or hostile & if you took it that way I apologize..

 

First of all it was not just a handful of people affected...It was many ships & many passengers..You might want to go over the four threads that have been commenting on refunds & incorrect fares...You will note it was stated by one of the people involved in this price glitch that more than a hundred passengers reservations are incorrect..Bookings with TA's and direct HAL bookings are included in this problem..And I still stand behind the fact that this was not a price increase..

 

Of course most of these passengers have never heard of Cruise Critic & have not posted here..If a handful of people were caught up in this thing I agree something should be done but with the number of people involved I honestly don't think HAL can do anything..

 

Also to clarify my position..I was not a Travel Agent..I was in the Airline business for 35 years & directly involved with Reservations & Sales throughout the United States..System Errors have occurred since computers came into being...That's why all Carriers & suppliers have disclaimers which have been upheld in the US courts..

 

In Hal's Published Policies (see their brochures) under the Heading:

Fares, Non-Discountable Amounts, Taxes and Surcharges it reads:

 

(Quote) Holland America Line reserves the right not to honor any published prices that it determines were erroneous due to printing , electronic or clerical error. (Unquote) etc etc...This section goes on to give the policy on "Non-Discountable Amounts" Taxes & surcharges..

KevenC..I honestly don't believe an e-mail will help..Your best bet would be to send a Certified Return Receipt Letter to the Pres. of HAL clearly stating the problem & telling him what you expect HAL to do..You can't prove that an e-mail ever was received..But a certified letter is proof & will stand up to legal scrutiny..Good luck..Betty

[BillandJen]

Stein Kruse

President/CEO

Holland Merican Line, Inc.

300 Elliott Avenue West

Seattle, WA

98119

 

206-281-3535

 

Lets get on them!

[Kevinc6969]

I agree...unless we continue to pursue this, we will loose.

 

HERE"S HAL'S TOLL FREE NUMBER 1-877-932-4259

 

I have already called them and filed a complaint..they said they will respond in 2-3 days.

[turia]

As of this posting there have been 5,687 views on this and a related post.

 

There are only 4 posters who claim they have been impacted by some kind of problem.

 

None of these posters have a history with this board.

 

At least one of these posts, the first, appears to be more of an issue with timing of action on the Ta's part, than anything. This poster seems to have moved on and is actively planning her cruise and asking questions that can be answered by those who frequent these boards.

 

And the rest is, noise.

 

The on line agency where I booked says that they (Hal) are not honoring the prices and that there are 30's affected by this and a lot don't even know, there are also people who aren't saying anything so as not to bring light to their situation since some have said Hal reads these boards. My Ta's manager is finding out if Hal is finished adjusting the prices. One of the guys my TA works with had all his reservations canceled and that was over 70 people (that's one TA) there are a couple that they missed only time will tell what will happen with them. I will be speaking to my TA later today and at that point will hopefully know if I'm Kay or not as I need to plan my wedding and need to know the date.

 

As for being new to this board yes that's true we just discovered cruising this will be our second cruise in 6 months I didn't know you needed a history to post. Just because we are new does that mean we are less important?

 

This is a tread that people that are affected are finding out information I for one am very thankful to bankerbabe for starting it.

[Kevinc6969]

My TA called and said price was going up $400 pp...total of $1000 for 3 of us. HAL'S compensation was $200 on board credit. I promptly refused...and now looking for cruise on RCCL or Celebrity. BYE BYE HAL...never again!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Welcome to the cc boards turia.

[SarahQ]

For perspective, refer to post #140 under the "raising our fares" thread.

 

Let's stop the insanity.

hammybee, I'm sure many people understand where you are coming from, but your statements and inferences in that post are the reason why so many 'lurkers' do not post on the HAL board or CC in general.

 

Believe me, this is in no way a personal thing, as I enjoy your posts and I know you have everyone's best interests at heart (I realize you've personally done a lot of legwork to try and figure this particular issue out).

 

Your post just reminded me how many 'regulars' on this board are so quick to label anyone with a low post count a 'troll' - often no matter how long they have actually been registered with CC.

 

I could easily be a victim of this type of treatment - my post count isn't what anyone would consider impressive; however, what it doesn't tell you is that I've been reading CC on an almost daily basis for the last 2 years.

 

So yes, that means I've seen my share of trolls come and go...and they do always go, so I just wish we could allow posters to be "innocent until proven guilty". With the treatment that many 'new' posters get on this board (and others), who knows how much important information/experiences we're all missing out on due to those who just don't have the energy or fortitude to withstand personal attacks?

 

Food for thought, I guess...

[Kevinc6969]

My TA called and said price was going up $400 pp...total of $1000 for 3 of us. HAL'S compensation was $200 on board credit. I promptly refused...and now looking for cruise on RCCL or Celebrity. BYE BYE HAL...never again!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Happy cruzer.....thats right inside shown as 699 outside 759...balcony 879....sounds like old bait and switch to me.

[bankerbabe]

Thank you Turia - I appreciate your comments. Good luck planning your wedding! If we go on the cruise next year it will be to celebrate 14 years.

 

I'm in the process of drafting a letter to be sent via certified mail to the President/CEO of Holland America.

[turia]

Thanks for the welcome Kevin. I'm still waiting to see what happens if they do raise mine I don't know if I will go with Hal or change we'll see keeping my fingers crossed.

 

 

It was supposed to read 100's in my last post not 30's sorry.

[turia]

Congrats on the 14 years. We will be together for 14 years in January and are finally making it official, I don't know if you can see the guns at our back they're being held by our parents (they think we waited to long).

 

I hope it all works out and I'll let you know what my TA says later on today. You never know I might be joining you in writing a letter.

 

Hal could really gain a lot of life long customers buy biting the bullet on this one, there are a lot of us 30 something crowd that have many years left for vacationing (knock on wood) that are wrapped up in this and it might leave a sour taste in our mouth.

 

We just discovered cruising and intend continuing on vacationing this way (other then when we go to visit family in Europe).

[BillandJen]

I spoke to a a reservation agent who told me she is well aware of the matter and that over 500 bookings have been effected. She said she saw an onboard credit on our booking of $125 pp. Further she said it came from the top down that they are NOT goin to honor the pricing. I know more than my agent so I'm taking charge of this. Nobody will fight harder for this than I. The HAL switchboad refuses to put you up to the executive level.

[wander]

I agree with the "innocent until proven guilty" concept, BUT I believe it must be applied to ALL parties possibly involved - the Poster, the TA AND HAL! From what I read, many of the posters are jumping to suspected conclusions, "damming" either other posters, HAL or the TA. IMHO, WE DO NOT have enough factual information for conclusions at this time. We have only the OP's statements. While I believe that this is sufficient to offer empathy for the OP, I DO NOT feel the information sufficient to condem any of the parties involved (OP, TA, HAL).

 

I spent about 6 years at the end of my career investigating employment complaints in the Western US. My experiences there taught me to NEVER take sides in a dispute UNTIL I had equal access to FACTUAL information from all parties involved, including witnesses and relevant documentation. In taking depositions, one frequently could not believe they were hearing about the same incident. I had to keep collecting documentation and testimony until I could draw a conclusion as to "fair or unfair under law". Not always easy even with all of the testimony and supporting documentation.

 

Sometimes the distortion of facts was intentional, but usually it was a sincere presentation of "facts" by one party (or both parties) with "selective truth telling". What they said may well have been true, but vital bits were conveniently left out. (They were officially sworn in to "tell the truth, the whole truth......". Then again, sometimes evidence showed testimony to be "spot on". But, one never knew until all sources of testimony and evidence was collected and analyzed as a package.

[newmexicoNita]

I don't think in this situation anyone is labeling anyone a troll, but I agree about the time out. There are too many threads, too many opinions, no one knows what the outcome will be: taking this to the media, etc will do very little good and the few who won't sail HAL again won't make much of a dent to them. They have been around too long and have too good of a reputation. Don't get me wrong, I am not siding with them cause I don't know what is right or wrong. I see both sides of this; that being said hammiebee is right: let's go on with other things. All we are doing in re-hashing the same thing over and over. NMnita

[wander]

I am confused. How can one blame HAL for not honoring a "TA's posted" fare? Now if it was on the HAL website - that is a different story, but from what I read - it was a fare posted by one or more online agencies. Is there any proof that the TA had an agreement with HAL to sell at such a low price? If there is written proof of that, then yes, HAL should make good. But, short of that, I would question the TA.

 

At least in my experience, the "Paid in Full" paperwork I gets comes from the TA, not HAL. The same goes for our "deposit paid" paperwork. While I have faith my TA has actually gotten the same word from HAL (or whatever line), unless I check with my CC company, the statements only prove that my TA says I am paid in full, not HAL. Does HAL even know what price the TA was advertising?

 

Once we made a full price offer on some land. The offer was turned down - but how could that be? Well, it was a partnership and one partner had represented himself (in writing with the RE agent and us) as having the authority to negotiate sale prices. Before we made our offer he had lowered the asking price without consulting the other partners, so when he took the "full price offer" to them they thought is was an "offer proposal" and thus turned it down. Since the RE had it in writing that he presented himself as able to negotiate sales, the partnership had to honer our offer. (How they dealt with him I do not know.)

[bankerbabe]

I am sending a certified letter to HAL's president/CEO. I want to CC the parent company (Carnival Corp.) CEO, but I'm having a hard time finding an address to send the letter to. Any ideas?

[turia]

Some people have booked directly with Hal and have confirmations, booking #'s and proof and have paid in full and they are not honoring it.

[bankerbabe]

Found this in the SEC filings:

 

Micky Arison

Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer

Carnival Corporation

C/O Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton

1285 Avenue of the Americas 2nd Floor

New York, NY 10019-6064

 

Hope mail sent here will make it to him.

[dakrewser]

While we're reading a lot of heat in this thread, I'm still seeing very little light. Would one of the affteced people (or all of oyu, heck, the more the merrier) please layout a simple chronology of what happened?

 

Ship and sailing date. Cabin booked and price booked at. Date of reservation. Date on confirmation invoice. Date they found out about the discrepency. Corrected price.

 

Let us all see exactly what the situation is.

[dakrewser]

Some people have booked directly with Hal and have confirmations, booking #'s and proof and have paid in full and they are not honoring it.

 

I've not seen anyone posting here who claimed to have booked directly with HAL, could you give a link to that message?

[sail7seas]

This is what BillandJen wrote:

 

I spoke to a a reservation agent who told me she is well aware of the matter and that over 500 bookings have been effected. She said she saw an onboard credit on our booking of $125 pp. Further she said it came from the top down that they are NOT goin to honor the pricing. I know more than my agent so I'm taking charge of this. Nobody will fight harder for this than I. The HAL switchboad refuses to put you up to the executive level.

 

 

This is what Bankerbabe wrote:

 

According to my husband's conversation with our TA yesterday (we've been calling at least once each day trying to push a resolution) there are 500 bookings at their agency alone. They are still claiming it was a pricing glitch in the HAL computers.

 

So.....were all of the bookings with only this one TA?

 

Does anyone really have a clue how many bookings are effected?

 

If it's 500 with one Agency and the Rep said it was 500 in total....... So all of the effected bookings were with only that agency?

 

(I supplied the underlines.)