Raising Our Fare (four threads combined into one)

[mdaven]

Thank you for the quick reply's! And thank you for the welcome aboard! Our upcoming cruise is a surprise for my hubby, to celebrate his 45th b-day. We are booked on the MS Noordam, NYC RT - 10 days - to the Eastern Carribean. All new ports for us, so I am thoroughly excited! And keeping this secret from him is harder than ever - I hope I make it!!

 

I've been giving him little tiny gifts (1 of 45, 2 of 45, etc. etc.) to give him hints that we are doing something, but he has yet to figure it out. We're up to gift 16. :)

[twinkletoes4445]

Boy, this is a mess. I would be so angry if I found out that my cruise fare was increased (after I booked it and paid my deposit). This sure gives me something to think about for future cruises.

 

I know HAL probably has everything covered legally, but I think it's bad business to not honor the prices once a person has booked and paid a deposit (regardless of who they booked through).

 

We booked our cruise based on the price they gave us. If HAL upped the price, we'd cancel, and I doubt I cruise HAL again.

 

And it amazes me that kruisekathy booked directly with HAL and HAL didn't notify her of the price change. I'd be beyond miffed if I were her....

[AAAAmerican]

I have been following the boards and just wish to make a couple of observations.

I booked through Holland America directly. I was given a fabulous price which I immediately booked and deposited. That was the last I heard about it. 3 days later I called for a friend and found out the price went up. I checked on my reservation and the price had gone up $1000.00. I think that settles the question as to whether it was one agency or not.

I never heard anything from HAL. I called and spoke to a person who gave me one story. I continued to pursue, and continued to get different stories. The range of dates for the glitch is between 1 and 3 days, depending on who you talk to. The compensation they are offering ranges from a $50pp OBC to $100pp on board AND 1 category upgrade. No one has the same answer. My take is that HAL is handling this extremely poorly. If they are reading these boards they should see that THEIR customers are very upset and they are certainly doing more harm than good. When I think about the money that HAL spends on one mailing to entice customers, they could have easily spent that just to appease people who need no enticement, they are already customers. I for one will never sail this line again (and this is my first) unless something is done to make this right. Am I kicking someone when they are down? Not in the least. I have been in business for many years and I know what it is like to eat crow. They (HAL) had a bad situation. However it took them at least 72 hours to find out about it and that in itself speaks volumes. This is a large company that works weekends. I realized that the fare quoted to me was great. Why didn't the sales agent put her antennae up and say, wow, this looks too good to be true. Obviously the cruising public saw it and jumped on it. If no one at HAL saw it they either need new staff or they didn't care and thought that maybe they would keep it as a bait and sell tactic. Once people bit, and then made air transportation, it would be too costly to cancel the air and so they are biting the bullet and taking the cruise. There seems to be enough of us, just on this board, to get together and make enough noise that CEO Kruse will have no choice but to listen and act. He obviously has not put a whole lot of thought into his actions. They have notified nobody. The only ones that know are those who have called, or their TA's have, or those who read these boards. This is a bad situation, getting worse everyday. We may be only a little drip but together we make an ocean. Let's get together and make something happen

 

 

The Ships are wonderful as are the officers and crews...

 

Being in WaWa (Washington State) there may have a distinct factoring as the MisFit (MSFT:OTC) mentality takes hold and root.. ..

 

Who ever before sold something that didnt work ..charged you for it and charged you for so called upgrades which were just fixes to the original problems... do you remember the BOB , VOICE and HOVER GAME programs?

 

Service is vital to any firm which wants to stay and make profits... even MisFit farmed a lot of that out to the Sub Continent of India...

 

HAL at least is in America still. It used to be in NYC....

 

The greater NYC area is one of the most competitive marketplaces in the World and if you give lousy service and bad price quotes and deals which are erroneous people movce on quickly and find another firm and/or product which suits there needs and promises (prices paid for) agreed upon .

 

When I make a contact with just a handshake it is solid and a given. What does anyone have but there word.

 

Has any Network Television and/or Radio media picked the problems up?

:eek: :eek:

 

HAL has to move quickly .. yes the NY minute is kinda fast but at Par here.. then you have the NJ NANO Second which is even quicker.

[AAAAmerican]

Thank you for the quick reply's! And thank you for the welcome aboard! Our upcoming cruise is a surprise for my hubby, to celebrate his 45th b-day. We are booked on the MS Noordam, NYC RT - 10 days - to the Eastern Carribean. All new ports for us, so I am thoroughly excited! And keeping this secret from him is harder than ever - I hope I make it!!

 

I've been giving him little tiny gifts (1 of 45, 2 of 45, etc. etc.) to give him hints that we are doing something, but he has yet to figure it out. We're up to gift 16. :)

 

 

It sounds like a box of American SWEET Chocolates... your so thoughtful, caring and kind.

 

The T & C port of call is nice now with a new pier and the MS Noordam IV is the one which opened the pier up there..

 

Have fun and explore... the ship is great and crewed so well .. :cool:

 

Oh and its not a secret anymore we all know now *S*:eek:

[happy cruzer]

Boy, Karen you are so right.

 

HAL's inaction on this one is the most damming thing.

 

I think if HAL had contacted each person and told them of the problem, before they found out by accident. They may have been able to save customers. But I know if I had to find out by checking my invoice some where and calling to see what happened and mostly likely getting a customer rep that didn't know anything, I would be very angry and not do business with that company again.

 

HAL needs to get going on this one. sounds like they may even need to do a press release.

 

They do have a big business problem because on another thread someone who had been reading the Carnival annual reports did the math and on average they profit only around $340 per berth so they probably are going to try to avoid $1000 hits to the profit. So even if HAL makes double the average for Carnival's subsideries, that's a big hit.

 

But they better make up their mind and start releasing info or it's going to be ugly.

[bankerbabe]

I'm sorry, sail7seas, but I have to disagree with your statement that if the mess affected her she would know by now.

 

At some point in my husband's conversations with the travel agent they indicated that they had not contacted everyone who was involved in this mess. In fact, they aren't contacting anyone at all yet, and we only know about it because we were contacting them. But it seems to affect only those people that have booked within the last week or week and a half.

 

Kevinc6969 who posted that he is having a similar problem on this thread, as well as a similar thread, indicated that he found out only after he contacted the agent.

 

One of the (many) excuses our TA has given us as to why this situation remains unresolved at the moment is because they have so many affected bookings. They keep telling my husband that he is just one of hundreds that they are trying to figure out.

[sail7seas]

I'm sorry, sail7seas, but I have to disagree with your statement that if the mess affected her she would know by now

 

 

Unless I am mistaken, I think she made her booking in August......that was before this situation arose, wasn't it? My understanding is all this mess occured during the last week.

 

Yes, she said August.

 

Here's 'some' of her post:

......In reading this thread, and the other threads relating to this topic, I'm just wondering if the time frame of sailings effected has been determined yet? I booked and paid for my Nov. cruise back in August - and I see from one poster that his/her Nov. cruise was effected, hence my concern. I haven't phoned my TA yet - if it isn't broke, don't fix it? or just fear of having them touch my reservation, lol. I believe I paid appropriately, but then again, pricing isn't something I know. Any idea of what cruises were effected yet?

 

[bankerbabe]

Yes, you are in fact correct that it did affect only those bookings made recently.

 

I apologize for the misunderstanding - what I meant to clarify was that most of the people who DO have a problem do not yet realize that there is a problem with their cruise. And the people that do have a problem are most likely to have booked within the last 7 to 10 days.

[bankerbabe]

I have been in contact with Anita Dunham-Potter with Tripso.com and with MSNBC regarding this matter. She has indicated interest in the topic. We'll see.

[kruisekathy]

HAL is keeping this a big secret, even from those that have booked. Most people have found out by accident, or by reading these boards. Why they have not been up front is a mystery to me. Why not just be honest? Furthermore, they have not been real open to their employees because my phone calls have produced reps either completely unaware or with conflicting info. But whoever at HAL is aware, the answer is the same. They are standing by their new prices and are not budging. We need a revolt of everyone involved. I truly believe that power is in numbers. Right now HAL is telling everyone that they have nothing to do with this and we should be dealing with our TA. That is a lot of Bunk. I can't believe HAL would be willing to lose so many customers and let that "bad" will trickle down to the general cruising population. It will ultimately mean loss of passengers leading to overall lose of revenue. Are they being pennywise but pound foolish. At least they could have offered some sort of split-we'll give some and they will give some. The $100 OBC just doesn't cut it with me when it is $1000 difference in price. If I spend $100 on drinks, the cost to the cruisline is probably only about $25. which brings their net lost only to $25.00. Sly on their part but most cruiser are too sophisticated to see that. I don't think a lawsuit is out of line. I owned a business in a field that was rife with lawsuits. They usually won because the court took the premise of the "least sophisticated consumer" which means their small print disclaimer probably won't hold up in today's court room. The only way to find out is to challange it. Anybody out there game?

[AAAAmerican]

Is she kin to Postmaster General Potter? Massachuisetts Potters? :cool:

[arabrab]

I remember a situation when there were some pricing irregularities on one of the big travel sites (Orbitz or Travelocity, I think) and the resolution on that seemed pretty reasonable: if the pricing was a fabulous deal, but still plausible ($100 a night for a room in a Tokyo or Hong Kong hotel) they honored it, but in the cases where it was ridiculous (something like 1.00 per night) they said sorry, it was a pricing error and you should have known that, and we're not honoring it.

 

Sounds like the Holland America situation was closer to the first: a fabulous deal but still plausible.

 

I think Holland America is losing an awful lot of goodwill on this one.

[bankerbabe]

I think that if Holland America does not honor my price they will be losing even more goodwill - as I will make sure that everyone possible hears about it. I may go down, but I won't go down without a fight.

[happy cruzer]

I just was looking at the prices for the Noordam online for jan-mar they are listed as follows

 

Inside 1099

Outside 1199

balcony 1399

 

And these rates match the other HAL cruises for 10 nights. I'm having trouble understanding how much lower they were erroneously listed out but I think it might be $400 pp less?

 

So that means the inside would have been 699, which is exactly what I am paying for NOV on the Volemdam for 10 nights.

 

If that is what the error is, HAL may have a public image problem plus they may not be able to say it was an obvious underpricing.

 

They need to do a press release soon...

[familymom]

I still have not heard from either my TA or HAL that I have a problem with my reservation, which I booked on line last Tuesday. But given everything else that's been posted here, I suspect I do. Even having booked properly and paid IN FULL. I also checked my credit card company and the counterparty to the charge was HAL directly, not the TA.

 

I fully expected an e-mail notification of the problem from HAL today but have received nothing. The whole situation is raising my blood pressure and getting me angry with HAL. The longer this situation goes on, the angrier I get.

 

Can HAL really believe that they can come back and raise our fares and keep our goodwill? I wonder if the intention is just to wait this situation out and talk to people in groups so that the whole population doesn't understand the situation at the same time and can't react as a group. Or maybe they haven't decided how to handle the problem? Either way, I'd like a quick resolution to this issue. Or perhaps there is no issue at all? For HAL's sake, as well all the people who booked with them last week, I hope that's the truth.

[hammybee]

As of this posting there have been 5,687 views on this and a related post.

 

There are only 4 posters who claim they have been impacted by some kind of problem.

 

None of these posters have a history with this board.

 

At least one of these posts, the first, appears to be more of an issue with timing of action on the TA's part, than anything. This poster seems to have moved on and is actively planning her cruise and asking questions that can be answered by those who frequent these boards.

 

And the rest is, noise.

[hammybee]

There are at least three threads related to an alleged problem with prices on some cruises. There are many posters who are concerned about their cruises.

 

For perspective, refer to post #140 under the "raising our fares" thread.

 

Let's stop the insanity.

[kakalina]

OK Hammydear

[twinkletoes4445]

Unless I missed it, none of these reservations were made directly between HAL and the passenger.

 

Given the terms and conditions of all cruise lines, they have the ability to adjust fares at any time up to the point of departure. In this case, HAL is not increasing prices. Instead they are not recognizing those reservations made at an erroneous price.

 

Instead of wondering why it took 5 days for someone to notice this, I am surprised it did not take longer.

 

My analogy of your bank deposit of $1,000 showing up as $100,000 in your bank account does not give you the right to keep the money. The bank has the ability to " claw-back" what is rightfully their money. In this case, HAL has a right to not honor an erroneous price, regardless of who caused the mistake.

 

I believe kruisekathy booked directly with HAL.

 

I have another analogy...

 

We were in the Dallas airport when a customer called hubby and wanted to do an add-on to a job we're working on. He quoted it on the phone...and sadly, he quoted it too low. We were SOL. We had to sell the product for the amount he quoted. And that was that.

 

Say you go into Dillard's to purchase a dress. The tag shows the price as $100, but in reality, the dress is $500 (they just mis-marked it). You pay $100 for the dress, not knowing about this error, but when you receive your credit card statement you see that Dillard's tacked-on an additional $400 because they made a mistake. Now that wouldn't fly with me.

 

I see your point about the money, but that was never yours, so I can see them taking it back. This is a contract...be it purchasing a house, buying a car...or clothing...a price was listed, and then they realized a mistake was made...and now they are trying to get the difference back. Can you imagine trying to get the keys to the new house, only to be told you need to fork over an additional 10k because the seller or agent made a mistake?

[twinkletoes4445]

I meant to add...

 

I hope this all works out for the posters who are having problems. :)

[hammybee]

Is she kin to Postmaster General Potter? Massachuisetts Potters? :cool:

 

Good one

[MercedMike]

We booked it through an internet wesite ... the price we were charged is not being honored by Holland America ...

 

"We booked it through an internet website ..."

 

:-X

[newmexicoNita]

I believe kruisekathy booked directly with HAL.

 

I have another analogy...

 

We were in the Dallas airport when a customer called hubby and wanted to do an add-on to a job we're working on. He quoted it on the phone...and sadly, he quoted it too low. We were SOL. We had to sell the product for the amount he quoted. And that was that.

 

Say you go into Dillard's to purchase a dress. The tag shows the price as $100, but in reality, the dress is $500 (they just mis-marked it). You pay $100 for the dress, not knowing about this error, but when you receive your credit card statement you see that Dillard's tacked-on an additional $400 because they made a mistake. Now that wouldn't fly with me.

 

I see your point about the money, but that was never yours, so I can see them taking it back. This is a contract...be it purchasing a house, buying a car...or clothing...a price was listed, and then they realized a mistake was made...and now they are trying to get the difference back. Can you imagine trying to get the keys to the new house, only to be told you need to fork over an additional 10k because the seller or agent made a mistake?

your analogies are just not the same: a computer glitch is a totally different thing and we still do not know the entire story. TA claims I did what I should: my experience as a TA, had it been entered at the time it would have spit out "wrong pricing" On the other hand if the computer accepted the price then we are talking about a whole new challenge. NMnita

[YYC F/A]

Don't understand why you keep saying that the rates went up ?...:confused: The rates did not go up! This was a complete system error & HAL refused to accept the lower rate which was incorrect in their computers..

 

If you had read the entire thread you would have seen there was an error in pricing in the system that apparently affected many ships, many Passengers & involved Hundreds of Dollars..No Rep. is going to split $300-$400 Per passenger with an agent..There is another thread which discusses large refunds on Hal cruises for 2007..Suspect this would be the same problem..It is going to take a great deal of work for Hal to handle this if that many people were involved..

 

As a former Travel Agent I'm sure you realize that system errors can occur & the passenger &/or Agent has no recourse..Yes if one error occurs the HAL Rep can possibly adjust it & split the difference for a small amount... However when System errors occur in pricing which affect many passengers,no Rep. is going to be able to handle it..

 

Even if the Agent was able to get the booking in immediately the passenger would have been told much later that the fare in the computer was incorrect.. And as a former Agent you would know that all Carriers & Agents have notices in their Company's Literature which state they will not be held responsible for errors in pricing & will collect additional amounts...This is not a new policy, it's been in effect since I went into the Travel Business 35 years ago..

 

However the passengers should fight for any monies they lose because of canceled Airline Reservations..They are entitled to get that amount back..

Betty

 

Betty - why the hostility and snippy-ness?

 

I *did* read the entire thread, contrary to your inferrals to the contrary.

 

Whether it was or wasn't a mistake on HAL's part, the rate did go up from the time it was booked. This is fact. Whether that rate was or wasn't supposed to have ever been loaded is another question.

 

Second - your comments about companies not honouring pricing mistakes. perhaps in your 35 years of business, you've never pushed that hard for companies to honour mistakes - particularly when it is not clear that there was a mistake in the first place!

 

A trip over to the flyertalk website will reveal MANY MANY threads on airline pricing errors, and the (in some cases) hundreds of people that purposely exploit them. In some cases, they are OBVIOUSLY erroneus system errors - first class from Toronto - Hawaii on Air Canada for $1.01 round trip for instance.

 

Yet, despite this, in many cases even when the error is OBVIOUSLY a mistake, many travel suppliers (including Air Canada in the instance above) DO honour the travel booked.

 

In the case with HAL, the error was not neccessarily an obvious mistake, it could have just been a deep discount sale. The Agent certainly didn't say "oh, this price is obviously wrong - it's way to low". So I cannot agree with you on the fact that suppliers will automatically not honour mistakes they have made. And $300-$400 a passenger is not a big deal in the big picture. I've split errors far greater than that before now. And that's in my humble 13 years in the business...

 

In any event, to get back on topic, it seems like only a handful of people have been affected, and I hope for everyone including the OP that they get the rate they signed up for and they enjoy their cruise!

[AAAAmerican]

Good one

 

His Brother lives in the Village of Ridgewood. :D