Raising Our Fare (four threads combined into one)

[turia]

These incredibly low prices were up for at least 5 days I don't understand how it took Hal 5 days to realize they had a glitch in their computer system.:confused:

[kryos]

As a former Travel Agent I'm sure you realize that system errors can occur & the passenger &/or Agent has no recourse..Yes if one error occurs the HAL Rep can possibly adjust it & split the difference for a small amount... However when System errors occur in pricing which affect many passengers,no Rep. is going to be able to handle it..

True. However, if the agent had promptly booked the reservation ... I mean like within the hour after taking it, the mistake could have immediately been discovered ... BEFORE the OP booked flights, and had a chance to really start getting excited about her trip. So, in this case, it may not be HAL's fault ... major system problem ... but it IS the TA's fault for sitting on the reservation for a couple of days. The OP should not have to bear the brunt of that. The TA should.

 

I'll give you an example. I booked hotel reservations a long time ago at a property in Los Angeles. I booked them through a big online broker and got a great deal. I wanted to stay at this particular property because there was a writer's conference going on at the hotel that week. But, I didn't like the rate for the rooms when booked through the conference's website. So, I used this online broker, got a great rate, and figured I was set. Made my plane reservations, paid my conference fee ... I'm good to go. I figured that the room I would be assigned would not be on the same floors where the conference participants were staying, but who cared? I was paying something like $60 a night less, so I'll be very happy assigned to a different floor.

 

About a month before the conference, I get some frantic emails and phone calls from this big online hotel broker. Apparently, there's been a mistake in their "system" and they can no longer "confirm" my reservation at said property. What obviously happened was that the hotel wouldn't release any rooms to this broker because, hey ... what should they sell them cheap to a broker, when they've got a big conference going on that week and can fill them on their own ... at much higher prices?

 

Now, I was screwed here. I had already arranged my flights and at this point my conference fee was non-refundable as well. Now I've got no place to stay. I can't even book a room through the conference at this point, because the hotel is 100% sold out.

 

I got ahold of an agent of this online broker by phone and asked him what we were gonna do about this. He made some lame offer about putting me up at a property near the airport. I almost exploded. This would cost me significant amounts of money in cab fares everyday to get to and from the conference (rental car not an option ... I don't drive). I told him that was unacceptable. He finally agreed ... after I made some nicely worded threats ... to put me up at a very nice property about three blocks from the original hotel, an easy walk over to the conference. He actually had the guts to cop an attitude that he was doing me this big favor ... because, as he explained, the other property was more expensive than the one I was originally booked in, and this "settlement" was going to cost his agency money. I was totally unimpressed. In fact, when he was finished ... or thought he was ... with me, I then hit him up for a $100 future credit voucher with their online site. My reasoning? I don't care how expensive the new hotel is compared to the old one. I was originally supposed to be staying right in the conference hotel, and now I've got to walk three blocks each way, everyday, to attend my conference. That was worth something for my trouble. Three days later I got my credit voucher in the mail and the poor agent was then truly finished having to deal with me. Nine months later I used my voucher for a three-day stay in an Orlando budget motel. That little stay wound up costing me something like $35 net. Not a bad deal. :)

 

Point of the story is that true, mistakes happen ... online agencies, cruise lines, you name it. But when those mistakes happen, they have to be settled in a way that doesn't hurt the customer ... or at least doesn't hurt them too badly. The OP's travel agent does not appear to be willing to work with her, despite a clear mistake on her part. True, HAL can raise the price. But I think we'd all agree that we haven't seen them do that when a reservation has been booked, and a HAL confirmation number issued. I think HAL would have done right by the OP if they had promptly received and accepted the booking. It was only when the TA tried to book it later that HAL simply refused to accept the booking at that price.

 

So, there is no "difference" for HAL to split in this case. The error was corrected before the TA booked ... and the "discounted" price was simply no longer available. Agent's bad. Agent pays.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Karen112999]

I now feel fortunate that I was not able to do the rebooking this for a great savings... If I was in this situation - I would be stressed out also.

 

Being these cruises are not until 2007, give all of the companies involved time to figure out for themselves what happened - get the suits from different companies, departments together to decide how to handle. Sorry to say - these decisions in large companies do not happen overnight. Managers from 1 dept - may say - no go, we can't honor these prices" And then PR managers get involved and say we must - even for such a loss.

 

I know it hard to be patient, especially those who did a new booking, and would NOT have had the funds to book at the higher price, but wait a week before you go into panic mode. I am not saying to stop the inquires and getting all involved on notice, but I see so much distress in some of these posters heads, just give it time and wait for a final outcome.

 

Sorry you all have to go through this for a vacation....Good side is that this is so far in advance - maybe you will be able to forget all the headaches before you actually cruise.

 

Karen

 

Karen

[mfanderso]

Just curious - Why do you use the term "rebook"? I too am one of the lucky ones who got a price reduction this past week by contacting the TA. But there was no cancellation & rebooking. She e-mailed a note to say we had gotten a reduction & that once she got the confirmation fax from HAL, would send that to us. We received a printout on TA letterhead today. It shows "Cruise price reduced," the amount, & our new final payment amout due, but the original booking & deposit paid dates remain the same.

 

I used the term rebook because when we called our TA to get the lower rate, they rebooked us through HAL with a different booking number to get the lower rate. They didn't just lower the rate with the existing booking number. Our existing deposit transferred over to the new booking number.

[happy cruzer]

The prices were reduced on 10 sailings out of New York From Jan 6 - Apr 11, 2007. If they were reduced on ships leaving other cites I don't know. The went back up on Tuesday and When I phoned my TA yesterday they said they were honoring the bookings with a deposit made but that's all. Lord knows if that will change only time will tell.

 

Hi, I think we are starting to get the full picture.

 

1. The error probably affected at least 1 ship from Jan 6 to apr 11.

2. HAL currently says it is honoring bookings with a deposit made.

 

So if the error really does affect only a few ships for a short period of time, HAL probably really can stand behind the bookings. Even if it was a good deal, there will not be that many bookings at the reduced price.

 

So based on what we have heard so far of HAL standing behind bookings with deposits, I think they have done well by their booked customers.

 

The OP's problem was caused by the "delayed" deposit. And if the OP can get over the anger at HAL, the upcoming cruise should be alot of fun!!

[turia]

It isn't for a world cruise (darn it). It is for an 10 night cruise out of New York City in April. My father-in-law actually purchased the cruise for us on Tuesday, using a credit card. He made whatever the initial deposit was that was due and was told that he had until about December (I think) to make the final payment.

 

The travel agency that we use actually books us directly into the cruise line's system (we have used them before, and the credit card statements always show the cruise line as running the credit card, not the travel agent, so I do believe them).

 

I can't see the $400 being a direct expense or a tax.

 

Where I bought my tickets the price was 1,349 yesterday and is now 999 for the April 11 trip out of New York so the prices are going up and down by large amounts but if you got your ticket at the same place I did (it's based out of Texas as well, the one that offers the $50 credit and the bottle of champagne) I was told they are honoring those with deposit made so get proof from Hal of the date and then inform her boss that you have proof of the date you gave the permission to charge the card.

[rps2004]

Hi, I think we are starting to get the full picture.

 

1. The error probably affected at least 1 ship from Jan 6 to apr 11.

2. HAL currently says it is honoring bookings with a deposit made.

 

So if the error really does affect only a few ships for a short period of time, HAL probably really can stand behind the bookings. Even if it was a good deal, there will not be that many bookings at the reduced price.

 

So based on what we have heard so far of HAL standing behind bookings with deposits, I think they have done well by their booked customers.

 

The OP's problem was caused by the "delayed" deposit. And if the OP can get over the anger at HAL, the upcoming cruise should be alot of fun!!

 

I think you’ve got it sized up pretty well. My TA told me the same thing, as did HAL (unofficially) although I’ve asked him to double check. I’ll report back tomorrow on his findings. We actually booked on Monday evening late, so our deposits (2 staterooms) must have posted shortly before the prices went back up. I know that my TA processed the deposit right through HAL and right away, because I was immediately given a HAL booking # and checked the HAL sight within 15 minutes and saw the booking. I will not deal with a TA that does not process money directly through the cruise line and I ask before I give up the credit card #.

I feel bad for the OP, but apparently there were two disconnects that didn’t involve HAL. The TA didn’t do their job, and the FIL (I am one and empathize here) did not confirm the deal – allowed the credit card to be taken w/o checking to be sure the TA did their job. Main fault, though, is with the TA. They knew better and should have done better and should be pressed to make good.

As for the comments that we shouldn’t believe something that is too good to be true – I saw the prices as very low, but not inconsistent with the market realities:

Increased Competition - Manhattan piers are only one of three cruise ports in NYC area now– and by far the least modern and efficient. I didn’t check, but logical that competitor’s cruises out of Bayonne and Brooklyn might be cutting into bookings.

Winter in the Atlantic – not everyone is thrilled with spending at least a day each way in cold, potentially rough seas. Logical, again, that HAL might be creating incentives to fill cabins.

Promotions and Blowouts – We are seeing more and more flash promos and the like. No reason to question if price is coming from a reputable TA that books and deposits directly with cruise line and gets a booking # from them.

One last point. There has been some discussion about HAL’s contractual rights; although all have pointed out that they are not lawyers. I am one, although I don’t practice in that particular area. Nevertheless, there is one compelling fact that mitigates against HAL reneging on an accepted booking. The numbers came from them and were up for days. This is different than where a third party (newspaper or web page) makes a mistake in posting wrong price and vendor refuses to honor it. These were HAL's numbers and they did honor them. They were accessed by TAs that HAL allows to access their computers, process deposits and select staterooms. As a lawyer, I would not view it as a difficult task to convince Hal that they should honor the booking, regardless of the fine print in their contract. HAL had ample opportunity in those cases where TAs deposited and booked directly through them to make the correction. Where it didn’t, it should be estopped from claiming it was not its mistake and liability. I hope I do not turn out to be my own client here.

Will check back on Monday when I hear from the TA.

 

Richard

[Karen112999]

I am sure glad that some are seeing a positive response from HAL & the TA's. I guess the "suits" must have worked it out and the realization that in most cases, they will be selling these cabins for most of the lower prices in the future... just giving them a little early.

 

Bankerbabe- yours is unique in the fact that there is uncertainty when its booked....But staying aware of other peoples resolution may help you in your battle with your TA.

 

A little poll - When you get a good deal on the cabin - do you tend to spend more on the cruise itself - facial - shore excursions, etc...

 

Karen

[hammybee]

Is it our nature to feel entitled to the opportunity created by someone's error?

[Randyk47]

Karen - Yes to your question. We do tend to do a bit more when we've gotten a "better" price on our cabin.

 

Hammybee - Yes, that's basically "our" nature. Interestingly, having been in private business in Washington state, I can tell you that there is a somewhat vague and seldom heard of law in the commercial code that permits a business to withdraw or not honor a mismarked item price. As I recall it was put in the code so businesses didn't get "hurt" by an employee's mistake. Generally speaking we'd honor the mismarked item for the first sale and quickly remark or remove the rest of the item until we could get it properly priced but we weren't required to by law. Since HAL is headquartered in Washington I'm not sure whether or not the law applies with them. Might add I haven't been in private business there for 20 years so things change.

[hammybee]

My local grocery store will honor a bad price and fix the problem. If however, a store employee or intermediary or even the local paper made a mistake and advertized a 75% off sale, you can bet the shoppers would line up early and you can bet the grocer would say sorry, there was an unfortunate mistake in advertizing.

[turia]

The thing I don't understand is how the places remained in place for a week you think they would have noticed the glitch before then?

[serendipity1499]

True. However, if the agent had promptly booked the reservation ... I mean like within the hour after taking it, the mistake could have immediately been discovered ... BEFORE the OP booked flights, and had a chance to really start getting excited about her trip. So, in this case, it may not be HAL's fault ... major system problem ... but it IS the TA's fault for sitting on the reservation for a couple of days. The OP should not have to bear the brunt of that. The TA should.

 

I'll give you an example. I booked hotel reservations a long time ago at a property in Los Angeles. I booked them through a big online broker and got a great deal. I wanted to stay at this particular property because there was a writer's conference going on at the hotel that week. But, I didn't like the rate for the rooms when booked through the conference's website. So, I used this online broker, got a great rate, and figured I was set. Made my plane reservations, paid my conference fee ... I'm good to go. I figured that the room I would be assigned would not be on the same floors where the conference participants were staying, but who cared? I was paying something like $60 a night less, so I'll be very happy assigned to a different floor.

 

About a month before the conference, I get some frantic emails and phone calls from this big online hotel broker. Apparently, there's been a mistake in their "system" and they can no longer "confirm" my reservation at said property. What obviously happened was that the hotel wouldn't release any rooms to this broker because, hey ... what should they sell them cheap to a broker, when they've got a big conference going on that week and can fill them on their own ... at much higher prices?

 

Now, I was screwed here. I had already arranged my flights and at this point my conference fee was non-refundable as well. Now I've got no place to stay. I can't even book a room through the conference at this point, because the hotel is 100% sold out.

 

I got ahold of an agent of this online broker by phone and asked him what we were gonna do about this. He made some lame offer about putting me up at a property near the airport. I almost exploded. This would cost me significant amounts of money in cab fares everyday to get to and from the conference (rental car not an option ... I don't drive). I told him that was unacceptable. He finally agreed ... after I made some nicely worded threats ... to put me up at a very nice property about three blocks from the original hotel, an easy walk over to the conference. He actually had the guts to cop an attitude that he was doing me this big favor ... because, as he explained, the other property was more expensive than the one I was originally booked in, and this "settlement" was going to cost his agency money. I was totally unimpressed. In fact, when he was finished ... or thought he was ... with me, I then hit him up for a $100 future credit voucher with their online site. My reasoning? I don't care how expensive the new hotel is compared to the old one. I was originally supposed to be staying right in the conference hotel, and now I've got to walk three blocks each way, everyday, to attend my conference. That was worth something for my trouble. Three days later I got my credit voucher in the mail and the poor agent was then truly finished having to deal with me. Nine months later I used my voucher for a three-day stay in an Orlando budget motel. That little stay wound up costing me something like $35 net. Not a bad deal. :)

 

Point of the story is that true, mistakes happen ... online agencies, cruise lines, you name it. But when those mistakes happen, they have to be settled in a way that doesn't hurt the customer ... or at least doesn't hurt them too badly. The OP's travel agent does not appear to be willing to work with her, despite a clear mistake on her part. True, HAL can raise the price. But I think we'd all agree that we haven't seen them do that when a reservation has been booked, and a HAL confirmation number issued. I think HAL would have done right by the OP if they had promptly received and accepted the booking. It was only when the TA tried to book it later that HAL simply refused to accept the booking at that price.

 

So, there is no "difference" for HAL to split in this case. The error was corrected before the TA booked ... and the "discounted" price was simply no longer available. Agent's bad. Agent pays. Blue skies ...--rita

 

Rita you only quoted one portion of my post..In my last paragraph I stated..

 

Quote However the passengers should fight for any monies they lose because of canceled Airline Reservations..They are entitled to get that amount back..UNQUOTE

 

And you are comparing Apples to Oranges...Your's was one mistake for one Person which your travel agent blamed on a computer error which is HOGWASH..

 

The OP & subsequent posters have been caught up in a complete computer pricing error on HAL's Part...Even if the agent had booked it in a timely manner, this is not the Agent's fault!

 

The OP had a HAL booking No. which means that HAL was given the Credit Card info..HAL does not process the Credit Cards immediately..Obviously the error was discovered later by HAL..This computer error affected many passengers & many ships.. Look at any of your HAL booklets Details, Details Pages...You will find this disclaimer under the heading: Fares, Non-discountable amounts, taxes & surcharges..All carriers have a disclaimer about Pricing errors & it has been court tested..Legally nothing can be done!

 

I'm not saying it's right, just saying that is the way it is..Betty

[Jimjam]

Sorry about your troubles Bankerbabe but you have received sympathy, advice, opinions and suggestions galore and all were very enlightening. I have been on 21 cruises on many different lines and only one with Holland America and the second recently booked..I have used the same TA over these many, many years without ever a problem. On every reservation I receive an e-mail confirmation that has the TA's Cruise Deposit Confirmation number but ALSO the cruise lines BOOKING number. I immediately do my pre-registration / immigration questionaire direct with the cruise line.

 

Has anyone ever read and understood a cruise lines contract???

 

Since I recently booked another cruise with Holland America I have been reading the cruise critic site almost every day about Holland America. I have never read so many "positive" comments about Holland America i.e. service, quality, class returning cruisers etc. etc. etc. Something just sounds funny about your situation if Holland America is really that good, fair and honest.

 

Could this be "bait & switch" selling tatics?? Get the booking than raise the price !!! I don't know but I wish you luck and keep up the good fight.

[serendipity1499]

These incredibly low prices were up for at least 5 days I don't understand how it took Hal 5 days to realize they had a glitch in their computer system.:confused:

 

Now that's a good question!

 

Calling TV stations, Attorney's, Consumer advocates, posting on this thread, & obsessing about this is doing you no good..Talking to HAL supervisors does no good either as they don't have the power to give you the erroneous fare..

 

The People involved in this should write a real letter (not e-mail) to the President of HAL & ask him these questions..

 

Don't delay! Write that letter now & don't forget to ask for any monies you have lost to airlines, hotels etc due to the error! You should also try to get an OBC on your cruise..

 

Only give the facts, be Consice, Non-emotional, tell him what you want HAL to do for you..Try to keep the letter to one page..

 

Tomorrow go to the Post Office & Mail it "Certified, return Receipt requested"

 

If he gets enough of these letters, perhaps you will get some sort of relief!

[S1drfl]

Rita you only quoted one portion of my post..In my last paragraph I stated..

 

Quote However the passengers should fight for any monies they lose because of canceled Airline Reservations..They are entitled to get that amount back..UNQUOTE

 

And you are comparing Apples to Oranges...Your's was one mistake for one Person which your travel agent blamed on a computer error which is HOGWASH..

 

The OP & subsequent posters have been caught up in a complete computer pricing error on HAL's Part...Even if the agent had booked it in a timely manner, this is not the Agent's fault!

 

The OP had a HAL booking No. which means that HAL was given the Credit Card info..HAL does not process the Credit Cards immediately..Obviously the error was discovered later by HAL..This computer error affected many passengers & many ships.. Look at any of your HAL booklets Details, Details Pages...You will find this disclaimer under the heading: Fares, Non-discountable amounts, taxes & surcharges..All carriers have a disclaimer about Pricing errors & it has been court tested..Legally nothing can be done!

 

I'm not saying it's right, just saying that is the way it is..Betty

 

I believe if you check post #18 by the OP you will find that the OP had a reservation no., not a HAL booking no. Subsequently, again as per the OP in post #18, the TA delayed, for whatever reason, 2 days in making the reservation with HAL. During this delay, when HAL had no knowledge of the booking by the TA, HAL discovered and corrected the "glitch" in pricing. It is my understanding from other posts that HAL is honoring bookings made while the "glitch" was in place, but that is not the case here. IMO, it sounds as if the TA did not perform its duties in a timely manner and is honorably liable to the client for the difference in price.

[sail7seas]

I think that OP should refer her TA here, to this site, to this thread.

 

If my speculation is correct (and, of course, I can't know that .........but I think it possible TA dragged her feet making the booking.) Let TA read this thread and learn 'her jig is up'. That OP may know why she has lost the 'bargain booking' she thought F-I-L had made. She may get the picture that OP (and everyone who has read this thread) realizes there are several scenarios as to why her price has gone up and one of them may be that TA did not promptly place the booking with HAL.

 

If TA reads this thread, she will realize we think it possible that she put the papers on her desk and didn't get around to booking with HAL until it was too late for the 'bargain' rate. It appears TA does not want to take responsibility and is trying to make OP think she's the innocent and HAL is the bad guy.

 

Maybe then TA may be willing to speak honestly and work with OP to reach a solution.

 

Of course, all of these comments are speculation that is what happened. Maybe someday OP will really know; maybe not.

 

[serendipity1499]

I believe if you check post #18 by the OP you will find that the OP had a reservation no., not a HAL booking no. Subsequently, again as per the OP in post #18, the TA delayed, for whatever reason, 2 days in making the reservation with HAL. During this delay, when HAL had no knowledge of the booking by the TA, HAL discovered and corrected the "glitch" in pricing. It is my understanding from other posts that HAL is honoring bookings made while the "glitch" was in place, but that is not the case here. IMO, it sounds as if the TA did not perform its duties in a timely manner and is honorably liable to the client for the difference in price.

 

Post No. 95 by Bankerbabe the original OP clearly states:

Quote:

 

Booking Number

We got a booking number that works on HAL's website, gives us a cabin number, etc. but unfortunately does not indicate when it was booked.

 

Unquote

 

Any number which can be entered in HAL's system is a HAL Booking Number!

 

Also the OP's post No. 25 states

 

Quote:

 

Apparently there are 500 bookings and 780 passengers with HAL that have this problem, due to a supposed computer glitch in HAL's booking system.

 

Unquote

 

I don't know how any one could misinterpret these posts unless you have not read the complete thread.. :confused: Betty

[sail7seas]

Not knowing WHEN that booking was made .....when that booking number was issued.......makes it impossible to know if TA sat on the booking and let the 'good price' expire. Just because there is NOW a valid booking number does not mean TA didn't wait too long in getting it. The only way to know that answer is to have a written copy of the HAL confirmation issued by HAL to the TA confirming the booking. That will be dated as to when the booking was made.

 

 

[sail7seas]

Unless TA has something to hide, what would be a reason for her to not produce the written HAL confirmation which will show date of booking?

 

[serendipity1499]

I only quoted part of the OP's Post No. 25:

 

Quote

Apparently there are 500 bookings and 780 passengers with HAL that have this problem, due to a supposed computer glitch in HAL's booking system.

 

My reservation number does pull up a booking and a cabin number, but it does not indicate a price or deposit amount.

Unquote

 

She calls it a Reservation No. but says it can be pulled up in HAL's sytem..That to me indicates it is a Booking Number..I still honestly believe that this is strictly a HAL problem & her reservation was booked at the time they caught the error..That's why HAL bounced it back to the TA & refused the booking..She was caught between a Rock & a Hard Place..

 

Also you must admit the OP is very stressed over this & I believe we are getting the story 2nd hand & in dribs & drabs..It's not going to help her by us giving our opinions on what might have occurred & our 2nd guesses, unless we know the whole story..She should write that letter to

HAL...Betty

[S1drfl]

Post No. 95 by Bankerbabe the original OP clearly states:

Quote:

 

Booking Number

We got a booking number that works on HAL's website, gives us a cabin number, etc. but unfortunately does not indicate when it was booked.

 

Unquote

 

Any number which can be entered in HAL's system is a HAL Booking Number!

 

Also the OP's post No. 25 states

 

Quote:

 

Apparently there are 500 bookings and 780 passengers with HAL that have this problem, due to a supposed computer glitch in HAL's booking system.

 

Unquote

 

I don't know how any one could misinterpret these posts unless you have not read the complete thread.. :confused: Betty

 

Good question.

 

Perhaps because in post 95 there is no mention of the time during the process in which the booking no. was produced. Given the detail presented in post 18 it seems to be likely that, since the TA did eventually make the booking, it was then.

 

And the other cases (whence the statistics in post 25?) that I have heard mentioned on this and other boards seem to be amicably resolved by HAL.

 

Might we now agree to disagree?

[sail7seas]

I sincerely believe it would be very useful for her to physcially see, with her own eyes, the written HAL confirmation. It is my understanding they are usually faxed or e-mailed to TA. OP may even get to see time and date of that transmission but at the least, it will provide the date of the booking.

 

If F-I-L made the arrangements on (for example) Tuesday, but the booking shows Wednesday, TA sat on that reservation for a day before contacting HAL and putting down the deposit.

 

 

If, on the other hand, TA shows the HAL confirmation to be same day as F-I-L and she agreed upon the booking, I then would not be blaming TA quite as much as it is my tendency to do now.

 

[Kamloops50]

When we booked our cruse . I asked the TA about increases.

She said cruse price can go until the final payment is made , then

the cost is fixed. Until final payment is made any increases can be passed

on .The most common increases is a fuel surcharge and/or taxes.

 

:)

[Kevinc6969]

We found an awesome price on Noordam for March 31st of 2007. We booked it through an internet wesite that we have used several times in the past. We were contacted by them saying that the price we were charged is not being honored by Holland America and that are reservation was being cancled and money would be refunded. We were told that there were around 200 reservations that will not be honored because of a price mix up between this agency and Holland America.

Has anyone else heard this, or had this problem in the past?