Great Danger with European River Cruises

[Hlitner]

I have had an internal debate whether to post this warning, but after lots of thought I feel compelled to aire my thoughts. We just returned from a 14 day river cruise (Viking River Cruises) from Amsterdam to Budapest. We did enjoy the cruise and this is not about Viking. Its about the lack of any (I repeat "any") security on European river cruises. We saw Peter Deilmann, Gate1, Amadeus, Uniworld and all the others since we were tied-up next to, or close to their boats in most of our ports. The reality is that there is absolutely no security on any of these boats. There is generally zero port security at European river ports. We spent quite a few days crusing through Germany, which has long been a breeding ground for Muslim tourist groups...and yet, at any port anyone could have easily walked onto our boat or any other boat in the ports. There were no police, no guards, no security (unlike ocean cruises) other than an unarmed staff person at the front desk of the cruise boats. In most ports boats will moor against each other (not uncommon to have to walk through two boats to get to your own boat) and there is absolutely nobody checking any IDs until you reach your own boat and ask for your key. The reality is that anybody (and I mean anybody) could easily board any of the European river boats and create havoc. It is not my intention to alarm anyone, but I am simply stating the reality of the current situation. European river boats are like ducks just sitting in a shooting gallery waiting for someone to start the action. For whatever reason they seem to think they do not need real security...despite the fact that they operate in some countries popular with some major terrorist groups. And we must also consider that many of these river boat companies cater primarily to citizens of the USA and UK.....not the most popular places these days. When we cruised the Nile in Egypt the Egyptian government always had armed guards stationed at the various ports. In Europe, there was nobody other than our friendly boat staff. I do understand that there are many that continue to deny that there are any security problems in our world (guess you could ask the Spanish railroad about that issue) but the truth is that there are some folks that want to hurt Americans, British, and others. So, why do the European river cruise companies continue to pretend that there is no potential threat? Darned if I know the answer..but this should be a consideration for anyone booking these trips. Three boats tied up together equals 450 souls,,who are literally sitting ducks on a river. Sorry to be so darn alarmist, but I am open to anyone telling me that I am wrong. If any representatives of any of the European river lines can tell me where I am wrong I will gladly apologize.

 

Hank

[Steamboatin]

Thanks for letting them know of the lack of security. I am sure they appreciate your "heads up" to them.:D

[p598738]

Not wrong Hank. My experience and concern as well. Point well taken.

[letsgo39]

Did you mean Muslim tourist or terroist? You said tourist.

 

I am sure you are correct but being someone who flew shortly after 9/11,takes the tube in London and the bus I will tell you that if we are going to have to spend our life worried all the time about things we can't control we would just be staying home and never traveling at all. I think most of us are aware of the risks and if anyone really wants to harm us they will be able to do so regardless of security . Anytime you have people who are willing to die to accomplish their goal anyone at any time can be at risk. That is just a fact of life these days.

[Hlitner]

Steamboatin, I do not think they appreciate anyone pointing out this lack of security. The reality is that good security is expensive and nobody (the river cruise lines or various governments) wants to spend the money until there is a true crisis. We had the pleasure of spending some of our time on-board the Viking Pride with a retired Secret Service Agent (great guy) and we both were somewhat surprised at the lack of security. Of course our appropriate reaction was to simply have a few extra drinks and enjoy the cruise. As is the case with most security issues, it will take some kind of major incident for anyone to pay attention, and than all the appropriate folks will have their usual excuses. For us, in the future we will continue to travel independently in Europe and avoid being with groups of tourists in tours...which have a bullseye written on their heads. Why anyone would feel safer while traveling in a group is beyond my ability to comprehend, but than many have called me an idiot.

 

Hank

 

Hank

[letsgo39]

Did you mean Muslim tourist or terroist? You said tourist.

 

I am sure you are correct but being someone who flew shortly after 9/11,takes the tube and bus in London I feel if have to spend my life worried all the time about things I can't control I would just be staying home and never traveling at all. Guess I would be "safe" there.I think most of us are aware of the risks and if anyone really wants to harm us they will be able to do so regardless of security . Anytime you have people who are willing to die to accomplish their goal anyone at any time can be at risk. That is just a fact of life these days.

[Hlitner]

Did you mean Muslim tourist or terroist? You said tourist.

 

Hmmm. I will let you wonder if it was a freudian slip or my actual thought. Keep in mind that Muslim Terrorists do not go around acting like terrorists. As to living in fear, thats not our style. We continue to travel quite freely (we recently spent 2 weeks in Egypt) and prefer to take basic precautions such as avoiding large groups of tourists (as in tour groups). The river cruise in Europe was a new experience, and although we lost no sleep worrying about security, it was hard not to notice the lack of any precautions or protection. Its the same old story, its perceived as cheaper to react to a crisis rather than to take the proper steps to prevent a crisis. of us

[letsgo39]

Well thanks for pointing this out for the rest of us that are getting ready to travel.:D :eek:

[Coral]

I agree that the potential is there.

 

But the potential is also there at the BB game I went to recently where thousands attended, the local marathon in my city where thousands of people ran, at the school I work at where many times there are hundreds of people in one area at any given time (graduation, honors convocation, speakers on campus).....

 

The threat is present at all of these places. We all need to keep our eyes and ears open and alert authority figures if something looks out of place.

[pacmom]

We have been on the rivers of France, travelled from the Black Sea to Amsterdam, around So. Amer. and in Egypt. The only place I felt like I should be concerned for safety issues was Egypt with armed guards at every turn--including the sun deck of our boat and on our tour buses. I never felt any concern ANYPLACE in Europe. Use of common sense helps a lot. We were in England during 9/11. Yes, we came home to a new world--one with a lot of thought being given to the safety of citizens. We can't live in a bubble.

 

When our boats were double or triple tied, someone always seemed to be watching the comings and goings. Our trip last summer we had to show our boarding (key) card to get back on board. Most countries like the tourist industry and don't want to see anything to the tourists helping their economy. We leave in 3 three weeks for our next river cruise on the Elbe. Travel safely and enjoy. Pat

[letsgo39]

I really think I would think twice about traveling to the middle east. I am not brave ebnough to go to Egypt even though I would love to.:confused:

[steamboats]

Hank,

 

I totally agree that there is a lack of security on European river cruise ships. At least the US focused companies should "pretend" some security by checking who´s going aboard.

 

I´ve just finished my first cruise with RCI and I have cruised a lot on US river cruise boats. So I am able to compare.

 

As a German I am totally aware that we´re not regarding river cruise ships as being in any danger. But I was surprised that there was no control at all.

 

Anyway you can´t compare Egypt to Europe. There have been numerous attacks on Western tourists in Egypt over the years. Tourist buses usually are not able to tour without armed patrols. I´m happy that I´m still living in a save country.

 

As I am working for the Bavarian governement I definitely know we are aware of the general security situation here in Germany. There have been warnings recently for US citizens in Germany. This did not include US tourists. Those bad guys are looking for places where they can get a lot of attraction. A river cruise ship with less than 200 people aboard is not very attractive in their eyes.

 

You´re right that there should be at least some basic checks while boarding like showing the boarding pass/keys or whatever to proove you "belong" to this ship.

 

steamboats

 

BTW, we were able to walk up to the American Queen at Julia Street Terminal in New Orleans. The harbor police wanted to see our IDs (in our case German passports) and let us pass without any further questions. The mate was the one where we had to stop but not the harbor police.

[tban]

Hank, your point is well taken - but I have to agree with Letsgo39

There is potential danger everywhere and not only in Europe and European riverboats. How about metro trains in NY, San Francisco, LA or any other US city - there are no controls or checks - you just get on with your suitcas or a big box and nobody cares. How about the Amtrak trains ? Same thing. if I am going to worry about all this I consequently have to stay home - and who knows how safe this is - are your local water towers / storage facilities protected by armed guards ? You might not be so safe in your home either. My point is that if there are people willing to hurt you they find a way. But yes you are right, maybe there should be at last some kind of metal detectors at the port entrances and if its only for some peace of mind.

[Coral]

tban -

 

If you emailed me while I was gone, can you re-email me. I checked my email in Mondrogi and remember seeing an email from you (but didn't have a chance to look at it) and can't seem to find it now. I must have accidently deleted it.

 

theresa

[CruisenOne]

I really think I would think twice about traveling to the middle east. I am not brave ebnough to go to Egypt even though I would love to.:confused:

 

DW and I just returned from a trip to the Middle East.

One week in Israel and two weeks in Egypt (One week in Cairo and one week on a boat in the Nile).

 

We never felt threatened !!

Yes, there were armed guards on our buses, in Egypt, and on the Nile River Boat.

Quite frankly, if a so called terrorist wanted to "take us out", it could be accomplished with out too much trouble.

I personnaly felt that the guards were for show only.

 

IMHO - IF you let the wannabe terrorists keep you from travelling -- Then THEY win !!!

[magmorr75219]

We just returned from cruising the Rhine, Main, and Danube, and no, there weren't guards. But I never felt threatened either. And when the ship is docked at night, they did at least lock the doors. We never feared for our safety or well-being while on the ship.

[Janet524]

Sadly, the bottom line - whether it is river boats, cruise ships, trains, planes, or sports venues - if a person or persons are hell bent on committing an outrageous act at any cost they may succeed. That's not to say that precautions and prudent action should not be taken, however one cannot have one's life and actions dictated by the "could happens". Life's a crapshoot - sometimes it's boxcars, other times it's snake eyes.

[letsgo39]

How can you possibly NOT feel threatened when you have to travel with armed guards? That is like traveling with a bulls eye on your forehead.:eek:

 

I would bet the poor people in the twin towers did not feel threatened either.Nor those in the London subway or the Spanish train.

 

Sorry but if you did not feel threatened in the middle east you should have.Why do you think the armed guards aree there?

[CincyAL]

I am a fairly experienced traveler and have NOT felt in danger in any of my river cruise stops. These are NOT ports, you normally dock along a promenade and can walk to the center of town in 5 minutes. This is the beauty of a river cruise. People watching along the river from or near the ship is other joy. Port security is NOT an option. Of course check with the ship guest relations staff on areas of town to avoid or any other special cirumstances. Each of us has sections in our own home town to avoid.

[DON M.]

Very interesting Hank. Not till I read your post did I even think about security(or the lack there of) on our Danube cruise last summer. Maybe its because I dont live in fear. "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." Even if the river boats had a armed guard in the doorway, would that stop 6 terrioists from coming aboard and taking us all hostage? I think you are reading to many books and talking to too many secret agents.

[npphotog]

Hank - Look at all the shopping malls in the US.....Could be just as easy for a terrorist to put a bomb under a few parked cars. Every river cruise we have taken we had boarding passes to get back on. But we still had to go through a few parked boats to get to ours.

[lawyerrose]

Ah, yes, what the world needs is more paranoia. The "lack of security" sounds like paradise to me. Or nostalgia. I'm sure sooner or later they'll subject everyone to the quasi-strip-search, check-all-the-luggage stuff we're all soooo comfortable with. One person's "lack of security" is another's "personal freedom." Maybe I'd better book a river cruise while their attitude is still relaxed, paranoia doesn't reign, and I'll be left alone to enjoy.

[lawyerrose]

Very interesting Hank. Not till I read your post did I even think about security(or the lack there of) on our Danube cruise last summer. Maybe its because I dont live in fear. "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." Even if the river boats had a armed guard in the doorway, would that stop 6 terrioists from coming aboard and taking us all hostage? I think you are reading to many books and talking to too many secret agents.

 

Amen, Don. My sentiments exactly.:)

[linda_22003]

We spent quite a few days crusing through Germany, which has long been a breeding ground for Muslim tourist groups...

 

Do you mean terrorist groups? Or are they just on vacation, too?

[linda_22003]

Having read the whole thread, I have to agree with those who choose not to limit their own lives and experiences based on fear of what could happen.