It got ugly in San Diego at 3:30pm today

[Hutch&Pat]

Just realized .... isn't this a poker cruise? .... looks like lots of 'gamblers' arriving so late!

 

But, from a business standpoint, I can't imagine a business knowing in advance that on-line forms were prepared incorrectly or incomplete and not notifying the person in advance.

 

And ... on the previous Zaandam sailing, most passengers were told 11 AM boarding but we were made to stand in line for hours before getting processed to get on ship because of a change in the ships arrival time ... and that change was not provided to most all passengers. Ship didn't arrive until around 10 AM, and it was full of disembarking guests, so sometimes HAL does tell passengers the wrong time.

 

Pat

[mountainmare]

I have a question--if someone was standing in line--having arrived before the 90 min cut off, and had filled out the on-line form, and thought that it was correct...only to find out by the time they got to the from of the line (after the 90 min cut off) that their form was wrong, would that person not be permitted to board?

We travel with friends who do not have a computer and do not want one. I always fill out their form on-line (although I know they could go to our travel agent and she would do it also) and tell them to be sure and see that I didn't make a mistake. While we don't want to stand in a crowd at 11am (and generally want to wait until the cabins are ready before we board) this does prompt me to be alot more careful about our arrival time.

One time we took HAL air which was a same day flight, from Philly to Cleveland to Miami for a sailing out of Fort Lauderdale. The HAL transfer had us wait almost an hour for a late arriving flight, I remember that we got to the ship very late that time.

This time because of work we must fly in same day--but are on the first flight out, non-stop arriving a little after 9, so I guess we will be some of those early birds (I hope).

[Boytjie]

I remember reading here that there are a number of transcription errors made by HAL staff when transmitting these lists.

 

I would bet that the data entered online is transmitted electronically without any manual input by HAL employees.

 

 

 

One thing did strike me as humorous in the post.Who stops for a bite to eat just before boarding a cruise ship that is stocked for 24/7 eating for a week?

 

That boggles the mind! There's free food on board. DUH.

[Hugh0906]

HAL includes the booklet "Know Before You Go" in every document packet. On page 24, under the heading Important Notice: . . . . "at least 90 minutes before departure. Any guest who has not provided us with this information (personal guest information) by that time will be unable to sail with the vessel even if they arrive at the terminal before the vessel leaves". So, in my book, sufficient guidance was provided to the passengers by HAL. ---- Penny

 

I concur generally, that one shouldn't take any chances.

 

But also it is a one way deal. On a recent short notice cruise we couldn't do pre boarding online. We were there in plenty of time. The ship arrived late, disembarked slowly.

 

We were fairly close to the front of the line. They didn't start the boarding process until 1:30 for a scheduled 4:00pm departure.

 

At least half of the passengers were like us. The time at the counter was twice as long as it would normally be.

 

There is absolutely no way they had even 20% of the folks through check in by 2pm.

 

They were were still boarding at 5:30pm

 

We heard nothing of anyone being refused boarding.

 

So there seems to be some latitude within the CCL corporation and the TSA.

 

Hugh in Dallas

[Boytjie]

The on line check in system is flawed. The same thing almost happened to me. I filled out what I thought was all the required information a month ago. It showed saved only/edit. I did not know that meant it was incomplete. I thought the information was saved and I could edit it if necessary.

 

Only when I went to print my boarding pass did I realize the information was not complete and it was that same nationality question that tripped me up. The system needs to be improved. Tom.

 

As a computer programmer I have to say that it is near impossible to make a computer input screen idiot proof... I mean fool proof. :D

 

No matter what you do, someone will miss-read some instruction. Many years ago I had a case of someone calling in a problem because their computer wasn't printing a ticket. I eventually walked over to the person's work station and reviewed what he was doing. Everything went fine until he got to the part that said 'Print ticket? (Y/N)'. He entered 'N'. When asked why he did that he said because his name is Nick.

[RuthC]

Many years ago I had a case of someone calling in a problem because their computer wasn't printing a ticket. I eventually walked over to the person's work station and reviewed what he was doing. Everything went fine until he got to the part that said 'Print ticket? (Y/N)'. He entered 'N'. When asked why he did that he said because his name is Nick.

Brilliant. :rolleyes:

 

I used to have many similar stories of questions my staff had brought to me. Fortunately, retirement seems to wipe the memory bank clean. :D

[prescottbob]

OK, Bob. I see what you're thinking. You're missing that the PSA doesn't come into play in this situation at all.

 

The Passenger Services Act pertains to foreign-flagged vessels transporting passengers between US ports. For it to apply the cruise must BOTH begin AND end in the US. If (dis)embarkation is in a foreign port there is no PSA consideration.

So, if the passengers embark in Cabo (Mexico) and disembark in San Diego, there is no PSA problem to consider.

 

The near/distant foreign port portions of the PSA apply when the passengers BOTH board and disembark in the US.

If the passengers board and disembark in the SAME city, and the ship has stopped anywhere, it must also stop at a near foreign port.

If the passengers board in one US city, and disembark in ANOTHER US city, the ship must stop at a distant foreign port.

 

Clearer now?

 

...this "fine" thing and justifications thereof. Doubtlessly (maybe) the so-called "fine" might of been the regeneration of paperwork by HAL for the updated manifest in Mexico and quite possibly airfare.

 

Thank you for clearing things up.

 

Ruth, if our paths every cross I owe ya a drink of the day (at the very least) or would chocolates be preferred?

 

Bon Voyage & Good Health!

Bob:)

[RuthC]

Ruth, if our paths every cross I owe ya a drink of the day (at the very least) or would chocolates be preferred?

It would be my pleasure. You decide---pick whichever you think best. ;)

[Copper10-8]

As a computer programmer I have to say that it is near impossible to make a computer input screen idiot proof... I mean fool proof. :D

 

No matter what you do, someone will miss-read some instruction. Many years ago I had a case of someone calling in a problem because their computer wasn't printing a ticket. I eventually walked over to the person's work station and reviewed what he was doing. Everything went fine until he got to the part that said 'Print ticket? (Y/N)'. He entered 'N'. When asked why he did that he said because his name is Nick.

 

[DAllenTCY]

I'd like to address the question posed by "Mountainmare", the answer is "tough luck!" It does not matter whether or not you are standing in line at the pier. The problem is that the ship's officer (I think, the Purser) is obligated to submit his initial passenger list 90 minutes before departure.

He may or may not consider flight delays, traffic delays, inclement weather, etc. My experience has been that they really don't care.....and once he has submitted his CBP list, that is the "line in the sand" that one may not cross. It has also been noted by myself, that for a few sailings, the 90 minutes has been increased to 95 or even 100, due to the fact that it takes that long to remove the crew gangway and release the mooring lines. SO, when boarding begins at noon or so, and you have 3 hours to board, why in the world would you not get to the ship before 3 for a 5 pm sailing?

[hammybee]

As a computer programmer I have to say that it is near impossible to make a computer input screen idiot proof... I mean fool proof. :D

 

No matter what you do, someone will miss-read some instruction. Many years ago I had a case of someone calling in a problem because their computer wasn't printing a ticket. I eventually walked over to the person's work station and reviewed what he was doing. Everything went fine until he got to the part that said 'Print ticket? (Y/N)'. He entered 'N'. When asked why he did that he said because his name is Nick.

 

Pebkac. ;)

[DAllenTCY]

As of course this was the major topic at work today, it was mentioned that 46 guests were denied boarding on Friday in Long Beach for the "Monarch of the Seas" three day cruise to Ensenada.

David

[mamaofami]

[/b]I would bet that the data entered online is transmitted electronically without any manual input by HAL employees

 

On our recent cruise, I enterred our information on line and printed out the boarding pass. When in the casino, trying to use our room key card in the Eurodam machines, it refused to take the card. When someone from HAL came to help, it turned out that DH's birthday had been enterred on the card as 1/1/ intsead of 1/2. Now, really, I didn't make this error on the boarding information and the passport should have to agree with the boarding pass, right? So, who transcribed this incorrectly ?

[Sunshine91]

I am thinking this way too. I mean really, not *everyone* has or wants to have internet access. Maybe they just decided to forego the whole online check-in thing and risk it at the pier.

 

You are SO right about that. Several of my extended family members (and not just the older ones :) ) are computer-free. And they like that just fine.

 

The on line check in system is flawed. The same thing almost happened to me. I filled out what I thought was all the required information a month ago. It showed saved only/edit. I did not know that meant it was incomplete. I thought the information was saved and I could edit it if necessary.

 

Only when I went to print my boarding pass did I realize the information was not complete and it was that same nationality question that tripped me up. The system needs to be improved. Tom.

 

Just curious - what's the big deal about not filling-in the nationality info at the time you initially do the form? I mean, what's the big deal? You have to give it to HAL at some point.

 

However, I DO agree that the system is flawed. Cruisers filling-out the form should not be able to click to the next box w/o filling in the required info for each field. That simple. I mean, how hard can that be to program? On-line shopping sites are set-up that way for credit card info.

[Copper10-8]

I'd like to address the question posed by "Mountainmare", the answer is "tough luck!" It does not matter whether or not you are standing in line at the pier. The problem is that the ship's officer (I think, the Purser) is obligated to submit his initial passenger list 90 minutes before departure.

He may or may not consider flight delays, traffic delays, inclement weather, etc. My experience has been that they really don't care.....and once he has submitted his CBP list, that is the "line in the sand" that one may not cross. It has also been noted by myself, that for a few sailings, the 90 minutes has been increased to 95 or even 100, due to the fact that it takes that long to remove the crew gangway and release the mooring lines. SO, when boarding begins at noon or so, and you have 3 hours to board, why in the world would you not get to the ship before 3 for a 5 pm sailing?

 

From your experience as well as expertese, any idea how that will work in the case of a delayed (booked through HAL) flight/bus ride with passengers for the ship on it? The captain will usually wait a reasonable amount of time for their arrival but that point is frequently beyond the "90 min prior to dep" rule

[Sunshine91]

Just realized .... isn't this a poker cruise? .... looks like lots of 'gamblers' arriving so late!

 

But, from a business standpoint, I can't imagine a business knowing in advance that on-line forms were prepared incorrectly or incomplete and not notifying the person in advance.

 

And ... on the previous Zaandam sailing, most passengers were told 11 AM boarding but we were made to stand in line for hours before getting processed to get on ship because of a change in the ships arrival time ... and that change was not provided to most all passengers. Ship didn't arrive until around 10 AM, and it was full of disembarking guests, so sometimes HAL does tell passengers the wrong time.

 

Pat

 

I agree w/your business assessment. HAL should certainly know which pax have filled-out the on-line forms (they're ON-LINE!) & if said forms are missing any info. I mean "Nationality Unknown" is pretty clear that the info is missing. :rolleyes:

 

But....... sometimes, ship happens. I'm guessing your (& everyone else's docs) showed that boarding would begin at 11am because the ship was expected in port 7-8am. Sometimes weather or other unforseen circumstances causes a ship to be late returning to port. Just how do you expect HAL to notify 1,200 - 2,000 pax the MORNING of turnaround day that the ship will be delayed just a couple of hours? Many are already in transit - air or car - and can't change those arrangements. If you're in a hotel nearby, you have to check out anyway.

 

Not everyone has a cellphone, and HAL doesn't necessarily have all pax cell #s as the primary point of contact. Folks just don't think to give that number. So why should HAL make calls (and spend the $$$ to do it) to pax home phone for a delay of 2-3 hours? Just doesn't make sense. Much, much better for the pax to be waiting for the bus than for the bus to leave w/us on the curb. :)

[pms4104]

However, I DO agree that the system is flawed. Cruisers filling-out the form should not be able to click to the next box w/o filling in the required info for each field. That simple. I mean, how hard can that be to program? On-line shopping sites are set-up that way for credit card info.

But ... even if changes were made to prevent an individual from proceeding until all blanks were completed, there is absolutely no way for programmers to write code to QC each and every entry an individual makes. So, at the nationality blank, an American selects Italy or Zambia or Myanmar ... that info is transmitted to HAL and the individual prints a boarding pass with info in conflict with his passport. Guessing that if that person shows up 89 minutes before scheduled sailing and the incorrect info is detected at checkin ... he's not boarding! Nothing truly is fail-safe ... human error does play a role.

[DesertDogs]

Just realized .... isn't this a poker cruise? .... looks like lots of 'gamblers' arriving so late!

Pat

 

This was not the poker cruise. That was the Zaandam that departed on 8 Oct to Hawaii. We originally booked that cruise but changed to the next one because of the poker group.

[Snorkel2Much]

I'd like to address the question posed by "Mountainmare", the answer is "tough luck!" It does not matter whether or not you are standing in line at the pier. The problem is that the ship's officer (I think, the Purser) is obligated to submit his initial passenger list 90 minutes before departure.

He may or may not consider flight delays, traffic delays, inclement weather, etc. My experience has been that they really don't care.....and once he has submitted his CBP list, that is the "line in the sand" that one may not cross. It has also been noted by myself, that for a few sailings, the 90 minutes has been increased to 95 or even 100, due to the fact that it takes that long to remove the crew gangway and release the mooring lines. SO, when boarding begins at noon or so, and you have 3 hours to board, why in the world would you not get to the ship before 3 for a 5 pm sailing?

{bolding mine} The actual listed CBP requirement is 60 minutes, but most cruiselines have adopted the 90 minute rule to give themselves 30 minutes to process & transmit the data. It's debatable if the cruiselines actually need 30 minutes to "process the data".

 

New U.S. government security regulations require us to submit certain guest information to law enforcement authorities at least 60 minutes prior to departure. To meet this requirement, we must have the necessary information in our records at least 90 minutes before departure. If we do not have your information by this deadline, you will be unable to sail.

http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/OnlineCheckIn.action

[Boytjie]

But, from a business standpoint, I can't imagine a business knowing in advance that on-line forms were prepared incorrectly or incomplete and not notifying the person in advance.

 

Online check-in is not the only option, you can also do it in person at the dock. HAL could assume that an incomplete check-in will be completed at embarkation.

 

 

And ... on the previous Zaandam sailing, most passengers were told 11 AM boarding but we were made to stand in line for hours before getting processed to get on ship because of a change in the ships arrival time ... and that change was not provided to most all passengers. Ship didn't arrive until around 10 AM, and it was full of disembarking guests, so sometimes HAL does tell passengers the wrong time.

 

That is one of the issues with cruise ships (and I guess airplanes too!): you cannot guarantee arrival or departure times. Yes, most of the time you can show up at 11 am and be OK because the the ship arrived on time. When its late everything change. Its not as if they know 24 hours in advance that a ship will not be docking at 7 am.

[Boytjie]

 

LOVE IT!

[Boytjie]

Pebkac. ;)

 

And I learned something new again! :D

 

PEBKAC = Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair

[Boytjie]

On our recent cruise, I enterred our information on line and printed out the boarding pass. When in the casino, trying to use our room key card in the Eurodam machines, it refused to take the card. When someone from HAL came to help, it turned out that DH's birthday had been enterred on the card as 1/1/ intsead of 1/2. Now, really, I didn't make this error on the boarding information and the passport should have to agree with the boarding pass, right? So, who transcribed this incorrectly ?

 

Gremlins!

 

Perhaps the card issuing is different from the TSA filing? Or maybe you typed it wrong. PEBKAC! :D

 

And sometimes there are bugs in computer programs....

[Boytjie]

However, I DO agree that the system is flawed. Cruisers filling-out the form should not be able to click to the next box w/o filling in the required info for each field. That simple. I mean, how hard can that be to program? On-line shopping sites are set-up that way for credit card info.

 

They allow for flexibility to fill in some information, save it and complete it later (I have done that when I did not have all the information at hand). Much like you can add stuff to your online shopping cart and come back later to finalize the order. ;)

[Boytjie]

From your experience as well as expertese, any idea how that will work in the case of a delayed (booked through HAL) flight/bus ride with passengers for the ship on it? The captain will usually wait a reasonable amount of time for their arrival but that point is frequently beyond the "90 min prior to dep" rule

 

I don't believe HAL has any discretion as the cutoff time for filing it - it has to be 90 minutes before departure. I guess HAL could decide to delay departure.