A dilemna

[jcpc]

I hope the moderators allow this post. I know we aren't supposed to talk about travel agents, but I have not named the travel agent so I hope the post is allowed to stay.

 

I'm looking for opinions/advice re the following situation:

 

We booked a group cruise with, what I thought was a very reputable firm. It is a Celebrity Group. Final payment is due next week.

 

We have the following cabins booked:

2 suites

3 balconies

2 outside

1 inside

 

We only have 15 actual passengers as one of the outsides is a single cabin (paying 200% occupancy).

 

The TA that we are dealing with is saying we are NOT entitled to a free tour conductor because we have not booked 8 double cabins - we have 7 doubles and 1 single. She said the only way we can get a TC is to put a phony name in the single cabin and pay the additional $300 taxes and fees associated with the phony name. If we do that she will then give us a TC credit in the outside category.

 

I know for a fact that Celebrity Group policy states that in the case of a single cabin, paying 200%, that the single occupant counts for 2 people when counting passengers for a TC credit and also that you get your TC berth in the cabin where you have sold the most cabins (which, in our case, would be a 2A Balcony cabin)

 

So, the way I look at it is this agent will be making extra money on our group as follows: $300 that we are paying for the taxes/fees plus the different in price between an outside cabin and a balcony (a little over $500).

 

When I told the agent that I was aware of the Celebirty Group policies (as I just got out of the business last year after doing outside sales with a local agency for over 15 years), she told me that my contract is with XXXX Tours, NOT with Celebrity Cruises. I can tell you right now -- this is my last contract with her company. As a matter of fact a few of us have Celebrity cruises booked with her in June of 2010 and we will transfer these back to the Cruise Line.

 

I have cruised 51 times with Celebrity. I quit my outside sales job with my local agent because she was nickel and diming all my bookings (both individual & group) so she could make an extra fifty buck! (times are tough, I guess). I thought I would try this TA because so many people on the boards think she is so great.

 

My question is this: Do you all think this is ethical treatment by this travel agency and more importantly, are there any ethical travel agencies out there?? Don't tell me to ask to speak to a manager/supervisor -- I'm dealing with the owner!!!

 

Thanks in advance your comments, opinions, suggestions.

 

jcpc

[Lois R]

WOW...I always sail solo and pay 200% and so I am with you sister...

I am essentially paying for 2 people.....

Maybe I am missing something?:confused: You have 8 cabins booked:eek:

The TA is saying you need 2 persons in that cabin? As long as

they are getting their money why do they care how many are

in the cabin?:confused:

[jcpc]

Hi Lois,

 

The TA is lying. I KNOW we're entitled to a free berth. She will not give it to me. Unbelievable....huh?

 

BTW - We have a friend in common....Elaine and Derek.....we've sailed with them in the past and when I looked at some of your cruise pictures who did I see????? Unbelievable....and I had lost touch with Elaine but now, thanks to you, I've re-connected (although I must admit I'm awful at keeping in touch via email!!)

 

Thanks!

[Lois R]

Hi Lois,

 

The TA is lying. I KNOW we're entitled to a free berth. She will not give it to me. Unbelievable....huh?

 

BTW - We have a friend in common....Elaine and Derek.....we've sailed with them in the past and when I looked at some of your cruise pictures who did I see????? Unbelievable....and I had lost touch with Elaine but now, thanks to you, I've re-connected (although I must admit I'm awful at keeping in touch via email!!)

 

Thanks!

 

I am sailing with Elaine and Derek again in January:D

Wanna go with us?:)

 

Oh...sorry about the problem.......I don't know all the ins and

outs but if you are paying full price for the cabin it would not

seem like it would matter if there were 1 or 2 in it.

[wecruiz]

I would suggest you contact the Celebrity Reservation folks. Confirm what you believe to be the situation on the bookings, without telling them you have already booked. If they confirm what should come with the booking, ask to speak with a manager - then blow the horn on this TA twit.

This is the kind of things that give the cruise line a black eye, and they will hopefully straighten the situation out.

[Susie51]

With 51 cruises on =X=, I would hope they can help you out. After all Celebrity is the one who gets the bulk of the money.

[nat9511]

I have sailed solo and was charged 200% minus the port charges and taxes for one person. The $300 is the tax the second person would have to pay. If you pay that amount then you would be eligible to receive the free berth.

 

I'm not sure how they figure the amount of the free berth but do know it is only the cruise fare not including taxes etc.

[lysolqn]

I can't see how paying port fees/taxes for the non-existent second pax in the single cabin would make a difference because while those charges are indeed collected by the cruise line, they're simply passed along to the appropriate authorities and neither the travel agent nor the cruise line benefits from them.

[Davey Interweb]

As long as your solo traveller is paying the 200% of fare as the supplement, yeah, that person will count as two passengers toward the TC in Celebrity's eyes. Their reservations department won't help you directly with any issues with your group, though - it belongs to your TA, so it's entirely between you and them to sort out any problems. You mentioned that you were outside of final payment, and I know what I'd do in this situation: go elsewhere and re-book.

 

I have sailed solo and was charged 200% minus the port charges and taxes for one person. The $300 is the tax the second person would have to pay. If you pay that amount then you would be eligible to receive the free berth.

 

I'm not sure how they figure the amount of the free berth but do know it is only the cruise fare not including taxes etc.

 

The credit amount in the OP's scenario would would be the base per-person fare for a 2A cabin. The non-commissionable fare (port charges) and taxes would still need to be paid by the person travelling in that free berth. We put together our own family & friends sailing every fall, and our TA has always paid out the TC credit in cash after our cruise.

[jcpc]

Yes, the solo passenger is paying 200%. Every travel agent I have spoken to today tells me that Celebrity will be allowing a TC credit on our 8 cabins. My TA is just not passing it along to our group.

 

I cannot cancel and go elsewhere to book. The prices have gone way up since we originally booked this cruise.

 

I know the cruise line will not help me -- this is between me and the TA. I'm fighting a losing battle.

[Lois R]

Yes, the solo passenger is paying 200%. Every travel agent I have spoken to today tells me that Celebrity will be allowing a TC credit on our 8 cabins. My TA is just not passing it along to our group.

 

I cannot cancel and go elsewhere to book. The prices have gone way up since we originally booked this cruise.

 

I know the cruise line will not help me -- this is between me and the TA. I'm fighting a losing battle.

 

I am really sorry about this....not sure what else you can do?

I know you won't be using this TA again:eek:

[jcpc]

Hi Lois,

No.....I won't be using this TA again. At this point I have to honestly say it's not even about the money anymore. The amount of the TC divided by 15 of us really isn't all that much money - it will buy each of us a few martinis!!. But at this point it's the princple. I guess the lesson to be learned is that maybe not ALL TA's are dishonest, but a very high percentage of them are.

[Lois R]

Hi Lois,

No.....I won't be using this TA again. At this point I have to honestly say it's not even about the money anymore. The amount of the TC divided by 15 of us really isn't all that much money - it will buy each of us a few martinis!!. But at this point it's the princple. I guess the lesson to be learned is that maybe not ALL TA's are dishonest, but a very high percentage of them are.

 

That statement could probably reference all occupations in every

part of life.

Unforutently, you got a doozey:eek::(....I am betting out of 10

TA's, 9 others would be doing the opposite and you would be

happy.

[Davey Interweb]

Yes, the solo passenger is paying 200%. Every travel agent I have spoken to today tells me that Celebrity will be allowing a TC credit on our 8 cabins. My TA is just not passing it along to our group.

 

I cannot cancel and go elsewhere to book. The prices have gone way up since we originally booked this cruise.

 

I know the cruise line will not help me -- this is between me and the TA. I'm fighting a losing battle.

 

Did you agree, before giving this TA actual cash money, that the TC would be passed on to you? It's not automatically a given, and this would be one of those details that should have been discussed and agreed upon during the initial booking phase. I suspect you probably did, given the wording of your post, but I thought I'd ask.

 

I can understand your frustration, at any rate. The only suggestion I'd have would be to ask them to pay out the TC value in cash after you've sailed. You know you already qualify for the credit as you have the requisite 16 berths. The cash value would be the per-person base fare you booked the 2A at (before non-commissionable fare and taxes), minus whatever their commission percentage happens to be. Nothing prevents them from doing this; if they were to refuse I think it'd then be pretty clear that they simply want to pocket (your) money as bonus commission.

 

Anyway, they sound shady.

[jcpc]

Davey Interweb,

 

Yes - it was agreed upfront that I would get the TC. Here's the catch. In her original email to me she stated "if you book 8 double cabins you'll get one free berth and 2 bottles of wine per cabin." Remember, I was in the business so I know exactly what questions to ask.

 

She is 100% sticking to 8 DOUBLE cabins. I told her that I KNOW that Celebrity counts a single at 200% as 2 people when counting towards TC and she basically said - she doesn't care how Celebrity counts it.....she said DOUBLE cabins so I need double cabins.

 

So, then I said to her "do you mean to tell me that if I give you a phony name and pay the taxes, etc. of $300 for that single cabin, then you'll give me the TC". Her answer was yes, but in the OV category, not the Balcony category (which is what is due).

 

It is very clear to me that she wants to pocket the money.

 

BTW - she is a huge agency used by many, many people on this board. This board is how I found out about her.

[Davey Interweb]

...so, in other words, this huge agency favored by many here is basically trying to screw you out of some money after discovering a technicality in your agreement that they could exploit. I agree; it's clear they just want to pocket some extra cash. What was their explanation as to why they're giving credit for only an OV, when clearly you qualify for a TC in the 2A category? In any case, there's no way to use that free berth without paying them ~$300 - this is in fact mandatory - but they should at least give you the berth you earned.

 

But yeah, it goes without saying that I'd cancel any future bookings with them if I were in your shoes.

[wildescapade]

I am an outside sales TA and she is lying....a single paying for double counts as two people....I have booked a lot of cruises with single passengers and I get the tour conducter credit all the time and I pass it on to my friends and family. I don't care what she tells you, I would cancel and rebook anything else just to prove a point!!! I would also "somehow" let everyone know who it is....in these times of a bad economy we don't need any enemies....I would want to know that my TA has my back!!!!! Believe me when I tell you that she is already making good money from you....

[AlanAllyn]

I know the prices on the S class ships have gone way up, so rebooking would be cutting off the nose to spite the face.

 

But, I certainly would report the TA to the Better Business Bureau for unethical practices.

[Davey Interweb]

I know the prices on the S class ships have gone way up, so rebooking would be cutting off the nose to spite the face.

 

But, I certainly would report the TA to the Better Business Bureau for unethical practices.

 

The BBB doesn't have any teeth anyway so doing this would likely be a pure waste of time, and this agency isn't really being "unethical" in the true sense of the word. The agreement was "one free berth for eight double-occupancy cabins". The OP has seven double-occupancy cabins and one single. Now, you and I and jcpc see their play for what it is - a cash grab - and we know what he actually qualifies for in Celebrity's view, but that is indeed what they seem to have agreed to according to his last post. Shady? Yes. Unethical? No, I don't think so.

 

Jcpc, out of curiosity, roughly how much higher are the fares under the current resident rates they're offering now versus what you booked at? I actually thought that $2299/person for a SS or better wasn't too bad; maybe a couple hundred on the high side of being a great deal. I've cruised out of NY, but not MD and it sounds interesting. I can see why you want to stick with it.

[jerseygirl3]

I am an outside sales TA and she is lying....a single paying for double counts as two people....I have booked a lot of cruises with single passengers and I get the tour conducter credit all the time and I pass it on to my friends and family. I don't care what she tells you, I would cancel and rebook anything else just to prove a point!!! I would also "somehow" let everyone know who it is....in these times of a bad economy we don't need any enemies....I would want to know that my TA has my back!!!!! Believe me when I tell you that she is already making good money from you....

 

To the OP, I too, would love to find out which TA you are talking about. We have used a female TA who many on these boards frequent and she does quite a lot of business with Celebrity. If this is the TA you are referring to, I would be very surprised. She's always been very upfront and honest with us and delivered excellent service.

[jcpc]

Davey Interweb is exactly right. She said 8 DOUBLE cabins......but I know that Celebrity is allowing her agency one free TC credit based on my 7 double and 1 single (at 200%) cabins that I booked. She's not breaking any "laws".....but it's very shady to say the least. Talk about splitting hairs! The 8 cabins I booked with her HAS earned a TC, in a cat 2A balcony rate, according to Celebrity's rules and she is not passing this TC credit along to me and my friends. She is pocketing that money herself. That is just not right. I actually got my hands on the exact wording that is posted on the Celebrity travel agent website pertaining to Group Tour Conductor Credits and emailed it to her so that she knows that I definitely know she's pulling a fast one. She doesn't care. She told me that I am not dealing with Celebrity Cruises directly but rather I am dealing with her travel agency and I need to abide by her rules.

 

Davey -the problem with the fares is that there is not a residency rate in all categories now. The 2A's are now pricing out a little bit over $300 per person more than what we paid for them. So, I have 3 2A's in my group - that's an extra $1800 total. Not worth cancelling and re-booking at the current rate.

 

I can't name the travel agent, but I know she books a lot of Celebrity cruises. I know a lot of people on this board and other boards use her. That is what made me decide to book my group with her.

 

I am really very disgusted, dumbfounded, and actually shocked that she is pulling this. All I can think is that times must be tough for her agency and $1000 means more to her than a potentially very loyal customer who cruises a lot. (I even told my nephew and his friends to book their Carnival cruise with her because I heard she was so good......so she got a booking from my nephew for 4 cabins on a 7-night Carnival cruise!)

[bob278]

There may be no "law" broken, but if Celebrity grants a TC credit, isn't is supposed to go to a Tour Conductor? Doesn't it violate Celebrity's rules for the travel agent to keep it? There must be some department at Celebrity that handles formal complaints with travel agents.

 

I would try to find another couple to join my group. True, the agent would get a little more commission, but I think the berth she would have to fork over might be more. Maybe you could find someone on your roll call that has booked direct with Celebrity that would be willing to transfer to your group. Nobody would be out any money (except, maybe the TA if the extra commission was less than the one berth she would have to give you).

[curiouscat]

Wow, you really seem to have gone off half cocked.. yes your entitled to the TC credit but you have to pay the taxes... so if you pay the $300 taxes,port fees(as she asked) you will get your credit....:confused: I don't understand the problem.... except for maybe the OV vs Balcony....

 

I think you there is a misunderstanding....?

 

 

CC

[cruisedoctor]

A TC (tour conductor) is a perk that goes to the "booking entity", which in your case is the travel agency that booked your group. The agency is not obligated to tell the client about that perk, nor do they have to pass it on to the client. It is basically an additional form of commission.

 

It's obvious that your agency of choice wants to keep that extra profit at all costs. When you caught them on the lie about paying 200% of cruise fare = 2 passengers, their next fall back was to make you pay an additional $300 out of pocket (even though they weren't getting that) on the hopes that the "net" value of that TC to you would be $300 less. When it looked like that tactic to discourage you wasn't going to work, she decided to decrease the value of the TC that she was willing to give you by valueing it on an OV category rather than a balcony, because $300 off of the lower value TC would be even a worse deal for you. Your agent is playing a chess game with you. For every move you make she is countering it with another to discourage it even further.

 

Obviously, they have decided that you aren't going to be doing business with them in the future, so they are going to maximize their profits on this sale no matter what.

 

Up until final payment time you have the right to move your booking to another agency, or directly to Celebrity. I would suggest that you contact the "Customer Relations" department at Celebrity, relate that the travel agency that has booked your group has turned out to be highly unsatisfactory, and ask how you can transfer the booking to someone else. The important thing is that you do this before final payment is made. Once final payment is made no moves are allowed. Transfering a booking usually doesn't involve "rebooking".

 

The problem is that with some mega-agencies is that volume is more important than the individual client. Good Luck!

[ForTheGlory]

I second the motion to move the booking to another agent (or to Celebrity directly) by contacting Celebrity (not rebooking). You should be able to do this without much problem.