Veendam 'too big' to get into St Georges, Bermuda

[chief d]

If you looked at the cruise itineraries for the HAL Veendam cruises to Bermuda on the HAL website, you would have seen that there is a posted code TR (Tender Required) for St. George's!;)

 

Yup your right it is there NOW. But when We booked this cruise back in March 09 at the AAA travel show in Foxboro Ma. it wasn't there nor was there a problem with the ship being to big. And we even talked with the HAL rep who was a sweetheart. And we meet her again at another HAL function this past fall. Still no mention of a problem with the Veendam's size.

[Copper10-8]

Just a "small issue" with Veendam's pax going on land in St. Georges and deciding not to tender back to the mother ship, but instead, find their own way to Hamilton to meet the ship there. If they don't give Veendam's staff prior notice thay they'll be engaged in doing this, the onboard security system will list them as "not back on board", or in other words, AWOL, when it comes time for the ship to depart for Hamilton. That, in turn, will cause all kinds of problems because the ship's staff now has to follow certain steps to attempt to verify the whereabouts of those pax before the ship can leave. Can you say, delay in departure?

Me thinks we have all heard the announcements "Will passenger such and so please contact the Front Office by dialing extension 51-50 from the nearest phone". I know "small potatoes" to some here and, afterall, it's HAL's problem:cool:

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

Just a "small issue" with Veendam's pax going on land in St. Georges and deciding not to tender back to the mother ship, but instead, find their own way to Hamilton to meet the ship there. If they don't give Veendam's staff prior notice thay they'll be engaged in doing this, the onboard security system will list them as "not back on board", or in other words, AWOL, when it comes time for the ship to depart for Hamilton. That, in turn, will cause all kinds of problems because the ship's staff now has to follow certain steps to attempt to verify the whereabouts of those pax before the ship can leave. Can you say, delay in departure?

Me thinks we have all heard the announcements "Will passenger such and so please contact the Front Office by dialing extension 51-50 from the nearest phone". I know "small potatoes" to some here and, afterall, it's HAL's problem:cool:

 

I understand what you're saying, but as I and others have posted, we have all done this in many past cruises and there was never a problem. As long as everyone was back on board before the return to NYC. Names were never called when they sailed from St. G to Hamilton. Also, I believe this is a unique situation just for Bermuda.

[Copper10-8]

I understand what you're saying, but as I and others have posted, we have all done this in many past cruises and there was never a problem. As long as everyone was back on board before the return to NYC. Names were never called when they sailed from St. G to Hamilton. Also, I believe this is a unique situation just for Bermuda.

 

You have done this on other HAL ships in Bermuda?

[ziggypup]

I understand what you're saying, but as I and others have posted, we have all done this in many past cruises and there was never a problem. As long as everyone was back on board before the return to NYC. Names were never called when they sailed from St. G to Hamilton. Also, I believe this is a unique situation just for Bermuda.

 

Call names? Wouldn't the computer be able to tell them who is onboard and who is not?

[RichNY]

Has anyone ever tendered into St. Georges before ??? I doubt it ..different situation...so maybe passengers are now required to be onboard.

[peaches from georgia]

Has anyone ever tendered into St. Georges before ??? I doubt it ..different situation...so maybe passengers are now required to be onboard.

Required by whom? Stephen (Topsham) is our resident expert on all things Bermuda and he has posted that it is not required by Bermuda. So, as far as I can see, this is a policy HAL has come up with and I don't see how it is either enforceable or necessary. Other cruiselines have switched ports in Bermuda without all pax being aboard. Whether a ship tenders or docks is immaterial to a policy that says all pax must be on the ship when it moves from one Bermuda port to another, IMO. It will ruin almost a full day in Bermuda for many people. I think HAL should confront this issue openly since many who are already booked are so concerned about it.

[RuthC]

Call names? Wouldn't the computer be able to tell them who is onboard and who is not?

Yes, those in charge know who is on board, and who has not returned yet. That's the point. When you scan off the ship that fact is registered. After "all aboard" the names of those who have not been scanned back are called over the PA.They are asked to contact the Front Office to confirm they are back---sometimes the scanning equipment does not register the passenger as having returned.

Copper John's point is that for passengers to stay ashore, expecting to reboard in Hamilton, without the Front Desk knowing about it, will cause a great deal of unnecessary work for them.

Of course, there are other solutions than to require everyone sail from St. Georges to Hamilton.

[sharpasahmarble]

Yes, those in charge know who is on board, and who has not returned yet. That's the point. When you scan off the ship that fact is registered. After "all aboard" the names of those who have not been scanned back are called over the PA.They are asked to contact the Front Office to confirm they are back---sometimes the scanning equipment does not register the passenger as having returned.

Copper John's point is that for passengers to stay ashore, expecting to reboard in Hamilton, without the Front Desk knowing about it, will cause a great deal of unnecessary work for them.

 

Of course, there are other solutions than to require everyone sail from St. Georges to Hamilton.

 

Who's is going to be the lucky one to call off 500 names over the ships PA? :)

[RuthC]

Who's is going to be the lucky one to call off 500 names over the ships PA? :)

Should we start a pool? How many weeks of calling out 500 names will it take for HAL to change the policy?

Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen.

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

You have done this on other HAL ships in Bermuda?

 

Nope, too young to have sailed on HAL ships to Bermuda. Did it on Princess, NCL, RCCL and Celebrity, all of which docked in St. G. At the time we chose not to have the moped company move our mopeds to Hamilton and we drove them ouselves and met the ships in Hamilton.

[ShipsAreTheBest]

Just a "small issue" with Veendam's pax going on land in St. Georges and deciding not to tender back to the mother ship, but instead, find their own way to Hamilton to meet the ship there. If they don't give Veendam's staff prior notice thay they'll be engaged in doing this, the onboard security system will list them as "not back on board", or in other words, AWOL, when it comes time for the ship to depart for Hamilton. That, in turn, will cause all kinds of problems because the ship's staff now has to follow certain steps to attempt to verify the whereabouts of those pax before the ship can leave. Can you say, delay in departure?

Me thinks we have all heard the announcements "Will passenger such and so please contact the Front Office by dialing extension 51-50 from the nearest phone". I know "small potatoes" to some here and, afterall, it's HAL's problem:cool:

 

I don't think that is the case. The system is active - it remembers who is where (on board or not). So you scan off in St. George's, and move yourself to Hamilton. As long as you go back on board before the departure to NY from Hamilton, you will be scanned back on board. In other words, when you meet the ship later in the day, you just scan back on board as if the ship never moved. No big deal. It was done with the Pacific Princess and Norwegian Crown (shifting from St. Georges to Hamilton to the Dockyard all before going back to NY).

 

The beauty of this system (vs the old days) is when the ship shifts docks, and God fordbid something awful happens during the transit (grounding, fire, other emergcency), they have an exact accounting of who is on board and who isn't. Years ago, that was never the case.

[Copper10-8]

I don't think that is the case. The system is active - it remembers who is where (on board or not). So you scan off in St. George's, and move yourself to Hamilton. As long as you go back on board before the departure to NY from Hamilton, you will be scanned back on board. In other words, when you meet the ship later in the day, you just scan back on board as if the ship never moved. .............

 

Yes, when a pax' card is scanned at the gangway in St. Georges, it shows that pax officially "off" the ship. When the ship departs for Hamilton and a, or 500, pax are not back onboard, he/she/they still show "off". Without pre-arranged notification or some other plan in place, the staff has no clue if a pax is planning to find his/her own way to Hamilton, that pax lost track of time shopping and/or having a couple of cold Dark 'n Stormy's in St. Georges or, God forbid, something unforseen happened there and the pax is in a local hospital.

 

The system is "active"? Sure, it shows a pax either "on" or "off" the ship. As far as I know, it can't scan you to Hamilton, San Juan or Skagway. Even if it were possible to put a "current location" behind your name, I would imagine that would have to be inputted manually (adding to gangway lines).

 

What say you?;)

[broberts]

Required by whom? Stephen (Topsham) is our resident expert on all things Bermuda and he has posted that it is not required by Bermuda. So, as far as I can see, this is a policy HAL has come up with and I don't see how it is either enforceable or necessary. Other cruiselines have switched ports in Bermuda without all pax being aboard. Whether a ship tenders or docks is immaterial to a policy that says all pax must be on the ship when it moves from one Bermuda port to another, IMO. It will ruin almost a full day in Bermuda for many people. I think HAL should confront this issue openly since many who are already booked are so concerned about it.

 

You may want to read section 6 of the HAL cruise contract wherein one agrees that HAL may deny boarding or remove anyone from the ship who disobeys the ship's rules or orders.

 

At the very least failing to advise the ship that you will not be returning before it sails is very inconsiderate of the crew and other passengers.

[Charles4515]

Yes, when a pax' card is scanned at the gangway in St. Georges, it shows that pax officially "off" the ship. When the ship departs for Hamilton and a, or 500, pax are not back onboard, he/she/they still show "off". Without pre-arranged notification or some other plan in place, the staff has no clue if a pax is planning to find his/her own way to Hamilton, that pax lost track of time shopping and/or having a couple of cold Dark 'n Stormy's in St. Georges or, God forbid, something unforeseen happened there and the pax is in a local hospital.

 

The system is "active"? Sure, it shows a pax either "on" or "off" the ship. As far as I know, it can't scan you to Hamilton, San Juan or Skagway. Even if it were possible to put a "current location" behind your name, I would imagine that would have to be inputted manually (adding to gangway lines).

 

What say you?;)

 

They don't need a clue. The reason is obvious that the 500 plan to reboard in Hamilton And if someone lost track of the time in St. George it would not matter. They can reboard in Hamilton. Also they are not going to check local hospitals. LOL. If you are in a hospital it will be up to you to contact the port agent.

 

There is no logical reason why this should be a problem. It has been done for years on every cruise line that calls on Bermuda. There is no deadline to return to the ship until the debarkation from Bermuda. There is not even a time you have to return in the evening every day. The gangway is open 24 hours.

[Charles4515]

You may want to read section 6 of the HAL cruise contract wherein one agrees that HAL may deny boarding or remove anyone from the ship who disobeys the ship's rules or orders.

 

At the very least failing to advise the ship that you will not be returning before it sails is very inconsiderate of the crew and other passengers.

 

The ship is not sailing away. It is just repositioning on the same small island. There is nothing inconsiderate. There is no logical reason anyone has to be onboard for the reposition.

[RalphWiggum]

I just booked! I spoke to a very patient and helpful HAL cruise consultant who was able to tell me definitively that while tendering back is required, one could get clearance for an early disembarkation in St. George and a late embarkation in Hamilton later in the day. You had to be booked to request this and it takes a couple of days to get final word. So far, my cruise is getting off to a great start.

 

At the end of my call I mentioned that I was pretty sure that Celebrity didn't have a requirement that all passengers be back on board for the switch to Hamilton. And that I probably wasn't going to be the only passenger calling about this. I still think HAL should just change it's rules on this. Many people won't be aware that you need to get precleared to stay in St George. I don't think that HAL can really hide behind the cruise contract on this issue when tens (or maybe hundreds) of pasengers fail to reboard (because reboarding means you have wasted one full day in Bermuda). It would be a customer relations nightmare.

[A.S.]

According to Post #44 on this thread, ferry service will be provided on Tuesdays. No mention of Wednesdays.

 

If passengers can't get to St Georges on Wednesday, then EVERYONE will be on board already.

 

So instead of docking at Hamilton at 2pm, maybe it will be earlier???

[Bermudamal]

As I stated earlier, the whole issue could be settled if the ship would just move to Hamilton earlier on Wednesday morning. That way everyone would already be onboard and we wouldn't be wasting a day in Bermuda.

 

However, if they must stay off St. George until 2:00 because of Bermuda schedules (i.e., pilot boat; longshoreman, etc...), a simple solution would be to just have a sign off sheet when passengers are exiting the ship, simply stating that they will not be reboarding until Hamilton. That way the crew knows who does not plan to reboard from the tender. Of course, if one should change their mind and reboard, no big deal. They would still have a list of those who are not reboarding and are meeting the ship in Hamilton.

 

If they don't want to slow up the tender process (which will be very slow already), then make announcements via intercom and the daily schedule onboard that passengers who wish to do this must sign up to do so at the Pursar's desk prior to leaving the ship. Having everyone who is already booked contacting HAL prior to their cruise to get special permission to disembark early in St. George and embark later in the day in Hamilton is absolutely ridiculous. First of all, most passengers will not know to do this, and secondly what a nightmare for HAL customer service to update every passenger's record to include this information.

 

We'll just have to stay tuned until the first passengers start returning from Bermuda this spring to see how all of this plays out. Should be interesting!

[ziggypup]

If they don't want to slow up the tender process (which will be very slow already), then make announcements via intercom and the daily schedule onboard that passengers who wish to do this must sign up to do so at the Pursar's desk prior to leaving the ship. Having everyone who is already booked contacting HAL prior to their cruise to get special permission to disembark early in St. George and embark later in the day in Hamilton is absolutely ridiculous. First of all, most passengers will not know to do this, and secondly what a nightmare for HAL customer service to update every passenger's record to include this information.

 

We'll just have to stay tuned until the first passengers start returning from Bermuda this spring to see how all of this plays out. Should be interesting!

 

They don't need to wait until you are onboard for the sign up. They can very easily ask you at check in if you wish to stay on the island and meet up with the ship in Hamilton. And if they want you to sign some kind of waiver, you can do it right then and there.

[Charles4515]

At the end of my call I mentioned that I was pretty sure that Celebrity didn't have a requirement that all passengers be back on board for the switch to Hamilton.

 

Neither Celebrity, Princess or Azamara had that requirement. I was on the Zenith 4 times plus Pacific Princess and Azamara Journey which did the multiple Bermuda port itineraries so I know. And I was not back on board on both Zenith and Pacific Princess and met the ship. Many others did the same thing. And they did not ask us to tell them.

 

One thing for first time Bermuda cruisers. The sail in to Hamilton is great. It is very worth doing. One of the best sail ins you could do on any cruise to any port. Since I have done the sail in a bunch of times I don't intend to be back onboard though if I book this cruise.

[broberts]

The ship is not sailing away. It is just repositioning on the same small island. There is nothing inconsiderate. There is no logical reason anyone has to be onboard for the reposition.

 

I get it. You know far better than the master of the ship what rules should be obeyed and which ones can be ignored. Not. Just because you think you understand fully a given situation does not mean that you do.

 

If HAL has a rule it is more than likely in place because their extensive experience has shown that the rule is required. You may not understand why or you may choose to ignore reasons which conflict with your opinion but neither of these make the rule any less valid or applicable.

 

The action is inconsiderate. Suppose your brother and his wife are visiting. They go out for the day and you remind them to be back by 5 so that you can all go over to your mother's place for dinner. They don't show up till the next morning. Were they being inconsiderate in not letting you know their plans?

[ziggypup]

I get it. You know far better than the master of the ship what rules should be obeyed and which ones can be ignored. Not. Just because you think you understand fully a given situation does not mean that you do.

 

If HAL has a rule it is more than likely in place because their extensive experience has shown that the rule is required. You may not understand why or you may choose to ignore reasons which conflict with your opinion but neither of these make the rule any less valid or applicable.

 

The action is inconsiderate. Suppose your brother and his wife are visiting. They go out for the day and you remind them to be back by 5 so that you can all go over to your mother's place for dinner. They don't show up till the next morning. Were they being inconsiderate in not letting you know their plans?

 

This whole courtesy issue can be eliminated if they just ask you what your intentions are when you check in. I don't think HAL knows what they are doing, but that is here nor their.

[Charles4515]

I get it. You know far better than the master of the ship what rules should be obeyed and which ones can be ignored. Not. Just because you think you understand fully a given situation does not mean that you do.

 

If HAL has a rule it is more than likely in place because their extensive experience has shown that the rule is required. You may not understand why or you may choose to ignore reasons which conflict with your opinion but neither of these make the rule any less valid or applicable.

 

The action is inconsiderate. Suppose your brother and his wife are visiting. They go out for the day and you remind them to be back by 5 so that you can all go over to your mother's place for dinner. They don't show up till the next morning. Were they being inconsiderate in not letting you know their plans?

 

You can't explain why such a rule would be needed in this case. Saying because it is the rule is not good enough. That is no answer. You can't think of any reason for everyone to be onboard for that two hours because there is no reason. The master won't be able to come up with any reason either. And if HAL indeed has such a rule they would be the ones being inconsiderate. Also they screwed up the itinerary by having it become a tender port.... that was inconsiderate. If you think I am going to tender to shore, then tender back to the ship for a move of the ship to Hamilton, no way. That would be a waste. As far as the HAL extensive experience...as of this moment before they have done one sailing I would say it is likely that I have more Bermuda experience than they do. It could only be lack of experience for them to say you have to be onboard for the move.

[ShipsAreTheBest]

Yes, when a pax' card is scanned at the gangway in St. Georges, it shows that pax officially "off" the ship. When the ship departs for Hamilton and a, or 500, pax are not back onboard, he/she/they still show "off". Without pre-arranged notification or some other plan in place, the staff has no clue if a pax is planning to find his/her own way to Hamilton, that pax lost track of time shopping and/or having a couple of cold Dark 'n Stormy's in St. Georges or, God forbid, something unforseen happened there and the pax is in a local hospital.

 

The system is "active"? Sure, it shows a pax either "on" or "off" the ship. As far as I know, it can't scan you to Hamilton, San Juan or Skagway. Even if it were possible to put a "current location" behind your name, I would imagine that would have to be inputted manually (adding to gangway lines).

 

What say you?;)

 

Sory Copper - mis-read your earlier post - thought you meant there would be a problem when the ship sailed from Hamilton to NY (hence my response). Having said that, since Bermuda is only 21 miles long and 1 mile wide, it's no big deal to get from one side to the other. Plenty of buses and cabs and ferries (and for the more adventurous, moped rentals).

 

The ship (even though it is making two port calls) really only has to treat the whole time on the island as one. Get off the first day at St. George's - just be sure to be back on board Friday afternoon in Hamilton 1 hour before sailing or you're flying back to NY! It has been done for years by all the other ships making multiple stops in Bermuda. I really think the whole thing comes down to a reservation agent who isn't aware of what goes on on these trips. (The old Veendam and Volendam used to do a St. George's/Hamilton shift on their 7-day Bermuda runs from 1980 to 1983 or so.)