Holland is Making Major Pricing Changes

[mrspeck]

In February of 2008 I booked a January 09 sailing on the Eurodam. Having never cruised before, I searched and found an online seller that had the cruise listed at a significant amount below HALs pricing. Not knowing how things worked, I called HAL to see if they'd match the price. I was informed at that time that the travel agent I was working with was going against HALs policy and that they weren't suppose to be discounting off of their commission. So, I wonder if this has always been HAL's policy and they have just never inforced it and now are going to start cracking down.

[Opinions]

If an agency wants to cut their profit margin by giving back in the form of OBC or Insurance subsidy that's the agencies problem not the cruise line. In the end there is no difference to the consumer.

 

 

As a consumer in my opinion there is a big difference...I prefer a cash discount...I can pick the insurance I want rather than the "free" insurance which some agencies provide...If this insurance doesn't provide "pre-existing conditions" it is usless to me...We don't spend a lot on board so a large OBC would be wasted...I don't recall many cruisers complaining because they recevied a cash discount.

[mrspeck]

This thread made me concerned about my upcoming booking that I made while onboard the Westerdam last month as I hadn't recieved any word from my travel agent in regards to having recieved it from HAL. I contacted my travel agent (a major online player) and they made sure everything was taken care of. I inquired about the discontuance of discounts and was told that they have not been informed of this and had no plans to discontinue the discounts.

[twinkletoes4445]

This thread made me concerned about my upcoming booking that I made while onboard the Westerdam last month as I hadn't recieved any word from my travel agent in regards to having recieved it from HAL. I contacted my travel agent (a major online player) and they made sure everything was taken care of. I inquired about the discontuance of discounts and was told that they have not been informed of this and had no plans to discontinue the discounts.

 

We had planned on booking a cruise while we're on our next cruise, but probably won't do so. Knowing that the prices are now going to be fixed, hubby said let's look around at other lines.

 

This may work for HAL and they may fill their ships, but we're going to try another line next time around (one outside the Carnival family). We may not like the others as much as HAL, but the $2,000 increase in cruise fare we ended up paying for the next cruise, will go a long way somewhere else.

 

We use a large regular TA and they must be adhering the HAL rule of discounting. It will be interesting to see what happens with the deal. There's lot of other choices.

[zoncom]

Thank you HAL. My friend and I were considering 20N Westerdam TA or 14N Equinox TA. Only advantage of HAL was interesting itin,several new ports. HAL pricing higher .I preferred X anyhow. In these tough times why would anyone go with HALs new policy? Bet it doesnt work and cruisers will go elsewhere. See you on Celebrity.

[pris993]

HAL has been good about notifying repeat passengers about discounts in the past. We usually book when we find something they are offering at a price that we like. Will continue to do so.

[serendipity1499]

In February of 2008 I booked a January 09 sailing on the Eurodam. Having never cruised before, I searched and found an online seller that had the cruise listed at a significant amount below HALs pricing. Not knowing how things worked, I called HAL to see if they'd match the price. I was informed at that time that the travel agent I was working with was going against HALs policy and that they weren't suppose to be discounting off of their commission. So, I wonder if this has always been HAL's policy and they have just never inforced it and now are going to start cracking down.

 

As far as I can see HAL only announced this policy in Nov of 2009 to take effect Jan 1, 2020..I suspect many TA's are not following it yet & have not signed the new contracts..

 

This policy was not in effect in 2005-2006..In 2005 We booked 2 cabins on the Prinsendam's Amazon Cruise in April 2006, directly with HAL..Several months later thanks to several people on this board we checked prices for the same cruise on-line..Found an Internet only TA which quoted us over $1,000 less for our cruise in a better cabin....I called HAL & asked to speak to a Supervisor, as wanted HAL to meet the TA's price..The Supervisor informed me that they can not match their High Producing TA's which have Group Allotments & receive discounts for them..he Supervisor at HAL suggested I FAX them permission to transfer our booking to the Internet only TA, which we did..Since then, we've always found good savings with TA's..

Now wonder if HAL will still give discounts for Group Allotments to their Agents, who will in turn sell their cabins at the HAL price? That way the Agents can still give their customers discounts if they have a group allotment on the ship..

 

Thank you HAL. My friend and I were considering 20N Westerdam TA or 14N Equinox TA. Only advantage of HAL was interesting itin,several new ports. HAL pricing higher .I preferred X anyhow. In these tough times why would anyone go with HALs new policy? Bet it doesnt work and cruisers will go elsewhere. See you on Celebrity.

 

I was under the impression that Celebrity was part of the RCCL agreement which does not permit TA's to discount their Cruises either..:confused:

Hopefully someone here, who cruises on both lines knows the answer to this..

Cheers...:)Betty

[kelmac]

As far as I can see HAL only announced this policy in Nov of 2009 to take effect Jan 1, 2020..I suspect many TA's are not following it yet & have not signed the new contracts..

 

This policy was not in effect in 2005-2006..In 2005 We booked 2 cabins on the Prinsendam's Amazon Cruise in April 2006, directly with HAL..Several months later thanks to several people on this board we checked prices for the same cruise on-line..Found an Internet only TA which quoted us over $1,000 less for our cruise in a better cabin....I called HAL & asked to speak to a Supervisor, as wanted HAL to meet the TA's price..The Supervisor informed me that they can not match their High Producing TA's which have Group Allotments & receive discounts for them..he Supervisor at HAL suggested I FAX them permission to transfer our booking to the Internet only TA, which we did..Since then, we've always found good savings with TA's..

Now wonder if HAL will still give discounts for Group Allotments to their Agents, who will in turn sell their cabins at the HAL price? That way the Agents can still give their customers discounts if they have a group allotment on the ship..

 

 

 

I was under the impression that Celebrity was part of the RCCL agreement which does not permit TA's to discount their Cruises either..:confused:

Hopefully someone here, who cruises on both lines knows the answer to this..

Cheers...:)Betty

 

Hi Betty,

 

Yes RCI, which includes Celebrity did change their policy a few years back (could be as much as four years ago). Good internet agencies have found ways to "reward" cruisers that book Royal Caribbean, Celebrity or Azamara.

The big kicker, and I mean BIG -- If the price on your cruise goes down, even after final payment, Celebrity will honor the lower price and rebate the money back to your credit card.

In the last several years HAL seems to have the better starting price (a year out), but by the time the cruise sails I always seem to pay less for the Celebrity cruise. (P/P perdiem for like categories)

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[rich_cathybrock]

Thank you, Kel, for an interesting perspective on the pricing, and my apologies if I caused confusion with the original post which erroneously suggested NCL had a fixed pricing policy in place, which as I see from the thread is not true.

 

I suppose ultimately competition manages to keep all the lines striking a balance between cost and profit, and as I said in the firest posting, I hope it will not be the consumers who will pay for this.

 

I hadn't thought about the possibility that Holland would also lower the prices even after final payment (they have never done so historically, though clearly Celebrity and others have) nor have I seen anything of the sort mentioned regarding HALs fixing prices, but I suppose the two may work hand-in-hand.

 

Unfortunately, I realize a great deal of this has to do with where you cruise, and since our passion has always been the Med, where prices tend to start low and climb high, it may also be a matter of itinerary which will result in less favorable costing.

 

I suppose we will have to wait and see how this develops...

[Arwen]

While this thread has to do with cruise discounts, I thought this might be of interest to some. My husband noticed that for the 2011 Hawaii & South Pacific Cruise that it will be 30 days instead of 33. My husband noticed that the cost of the cruise listed was the same. I am sure that cruise accountants are looking for all kinds of ways to save money, make a profit, and offer a decent itinerary and shipboard experience.

 

It may be that 30 days fits better into people's schedules than the odd 33 days. The Kona port has been dropped (not great loss, IMHO), second day in Bora Bora (very Unwise IMHO), and Moorea dropped. Thankfully we just took this amazing cruise on the Rotterdam.

 

I wonder if HAL will be doing this with other itineraries? For us, cruising is 1. about ports of call and then 2. price.:)

[hotzej]

I have been checking on Caribb cruises for this month for the past 6 weeks. Celebrity and HAL. I found that online I was able to save some money on HAL. Just the opposite on Celebrity. No price savings at all going to online agencies. I am retired and have plenty of opportunity to stay on top of cruises. I booked two days ago for a HAL cruise 2/21/10. Not much of a discount, but, I was able to pay for a guaranteed room and got a two category upgrade, which equated to an additional 1,500.00. It's not as easy as it used to be, but, then again everything is getting tougher these days. Got to work a little harder for what you want.

[gregdude]

This may have nothing to do with anything, but I have found that the published rate on HAL cruises (theire Web site) is not the price that I end up paying. On my two cruises, one 42 days and one 45 days the actual price was at least $500 less than what was posted. It seems that HAL does discount their own prices, but you have to call or contact them. I have also had the price go down prior to final payment and they have honored that by adjusting my final payment. For now I'm going to continue dealing directly with HAL and feel secure that my investment in a cruise is safe. Getting a $5.00 bottle of wine or a free dinner is not worth the worry to me.

 

I have also noticed a significant difference in price once you put in your Mariner Number on their Web Site and logon. If you only look at the prices on the main page you are getting significantly higher prices than if you go through the booking process and stop short of actually booking.

[serendipity1499]

Hi Betty,

 

Yes RCI, which includes Celebrity did change their policy a few years back (could be as much as four years ago). Good internet agencies have found ways to "reward" cruisers that book Royal Caribbean, Celebrity or Azamara.

The big kicker, and I mean BIG -- If the price on your cruise goes down, even after final payment, Celebrity will honor the lower price and rebate the money back to your credit card.

In the last several years HAL seems to have the better starting price (a year out), but by the time the cruise sails I always seem to pay less for the Celebrity cruise. (P/P perdiem for like categories)

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

 

Thanks Kel...We take the longer cruises & they tend to be more expensive than the 7 & 10 day Caribbean cruises...I doubt that TA's are going to be able to give us enough extras including insurance, OBC's & the Pinnacle to make up for our previous savings..However, as I've said many times before, cruises in the past 10 years have not increased at the same rate as our economy has..

 

I believe it was Bruce Muzz who said that in the next 10 years, cabins on cruises will be booked & may even be on a waitlist basis..He said Top Management of all the lines know that..Therefore, they will do whatever is necessary to fill their ships & make a good profit..

 

While this thread has to do with cruise discounts, I thought this might be of interest to some. My husband noticed that for the 2011 Hawaii & South Pacific Cruise that it will be 30 days instead of 33. My husband noticed that the cost of the cruise listed was the same. I am sure that cruise accountants are looking for all kinds of ways to save money, make a profit, and offer a decent itinerary and shipboard experience.

 

It may be that 30 days fits better into people's schedules than the odd 33 days. The Kona port has been dropped (not great loss, IMHO), second day in Bora Bora (very Unwise IMHO), and Moorea dropped. Thankfully we just took this amazing cruise on the Rotterdam.

 

I wonder if HAL will be doing this with other itineraries? For us, cruising is 1. about ports of call and then 2. price.:)

 

You may be right..Cruise Lines may cut down on days & ports but charge the same as they did in past years..That happened to coffee...Years ago we were alwayds able to buy a full lb. of coffee but now it's the same cost or more for a 12 oz.bag..;)

 

This may have nothing to do with anything, but I have found that the published rate on HAL cruises (theire Web site) is not the price that I end up paying. On my two cruises, one 42 days and one 45 days the actual price was at least $500 less than what was posted. It seems that HAL does discount their own prices, but you have to call or contact them. I have also had the price go down prior to final payment and they have honored that by adjusting my final payment. For now I'm going to continue dealing directly with HAL and feel secure that my investment in a cruise is safe. Getting a $5.00 bottle of wine or a free dinner is not worth the worry to me.

 

I have also noticed a significant difference in price once you put in your Mariner Number on their Web Site and logon. If you only look at the prices on the main page you are getting significantly higher prices than if you go through the booking process and stop short of actually booking.

 

Greg, agree a bottle of wine, or free dinner, or a couple of hundred $$ OBC is not worth going thru a TA, but we do the longer cruises...Our savings on all of our cruises since 2006 have been from 6% to 10% less than HAL's Price...We always put in our Mariner No. & stop short of the actual booking..I always do a compsarison..On our 28 day this past Nov. we saved $719 (or 9.9 %) going thru our TA..The TA also included a Pinnacle Dinner, a Bottle of wine & $150 OBC.. In addition we saved on our Insurance, which we normally purchase on-line...When one spends $6,000 to $8,000 on a cruise, that's a big chunk of $$$, which can be spent on other things..:)

 

If we can no longer save on our cruises, perhaps it will be necessary for us to think about other Cruise Lines..I'm going to miss the wonderful wrap around Promenade deck, the Bread Pudding & the Fresh squeezed OJ in the morning though..:(

 

JMO

 

Cheers...:)Betty

[serendipity1499]

As far as I can see HAL only announced this policy in Nov of 2009 to take effect Jan 1, 2020..I suspect many TA's are not following it yet & have not signed the new contracts..

 

Whoops! Didn't anyone catch this glaring mistake, or were you all just being nice..;)I meant to say:

 

As far as I can see, HAL only announced this policy in Nov of 2009 to take effect Jan 1, 2010..

 

Cheers..:):) Betty

[abb4k]

If we can no longer save on our cruises, perhaps it will be necessary for us to think about other Cruise Lines..I'm going to miss the wonderful wrap around Promenade deck, the Bread Pudding & the Fresh squeezed OJ in the morning though..:(

 

Several posters have made similar comments in this thread. If the Carnival brands (including HAL, Princess, Costa and Cunard) implement fixed pricing, and RCCL and Celebrity already are doing it, that would be something like 80%+ of the US market share on fixed pricing, leaving very few other cruise lines left to consider.

 

What would that leave: Disney and NCL?

 

I doubt many HAL cruisers would suddenly consider Disney a viable alternative.

[rich_cathybrock]

I doubt many HAL cruisers would suddenly consider Disney a viable alternative.

 

:eek: With all due respect to the thousands of families that flock to the line, my days of Mickey and Minnie are way behind me, and I'd rather do the theme parks if I live long enough to see my grandkids!!

 

Ah well, the Euro is going down, maybe by next year the dollar will be favorable and I will start venturing further inland!

[serendipity1499]

Several posters have made similar comments in this thread. If the Carnival brands (including HAL, Princess, Costa and Cunard) implement fixed pricing, and RCCL and Celebrity already are doing it, that would be something like 80%+ of the US market share on fixed pricing, leaving very few other cruise lines left to consider.

 

What would that leave: Disney and NCL?

 

I doubt many HAL cruisers would suddenly consider Disney a viable alternative.

 

We're dedicated 3 star (almost 4 star) HAL cruisers, with over 150 days...You are right about Disney & NCL not being a viable alternative...However, there are several other Cruise lines, which would be viable alternatives..

Did you forget about Oceania?

Oceania's service was, without a doubt, the best overall service we've ever had on any Cruise Line..Oceania's newest ship is approx. the size of HAL's "R" & "S" class ships, which we prefer...

Therefore, if the HAL prices end up being "rack rate", for want of better words, then we would consider booking on Oceania, for one, which are discountable & will cost approx the same as HAL's "rack rate" prices..

As a matter of fact, our 26 day Oceania cruise to the Amazon in Nov 2007 was $1,000 less than our 25 day HAL cruise to the Amazon in April 2006. because Oceania included a $500 Air credit (since we drive to the port) plus the Hotel service charge of $598..And the TA threw in $150 OBC... In addition, Oceania does not charge extra for their two alternative Restaurants (Steak house & Italian) which were fantastic..We had dinner in the alternative Restaurants at least 6 times..

 

BTW...Do we know for sure that Carnival & Princess are price fixing their cruises or is that pure conjecture?

Cheers...:)Betty

[Randyk47]

Just a cautionary note, colluding on price amongst competitors, also known as horizontal price fixing, is viewed as a per se violation of the Sherman Act regardless of the market impact or alleged efficiency of the action. In August 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that vertical price fixing by a manufacturer and its retailers, also known as retail price maintenance, is not a per se violation. In other words, Carnival can set the no discounting policy for its products/services and not be in violation of law, at least in the US. If they got together with the other cruise lines outside of the Carnival umbrella and agreed to set prices then it would be a violation of law.

[AlexandNessa]

Several posters have made similar comments in this thread. If the Carnival brands (including HAL, Princess, Costa and Cunard) implement fixed pricing, and RCCL and Celebrity already are doing it, that would be something like 80%+ of the US market share on fixed pricing, leaving very few other cruise lines left to consider.

 

What would that leave: Disney and NCL?

 

I doubt many HAL cruisers would suddenly consider Disney a viable alternative.

 

 

???

 

Disney has had a no discounting policy for years now.

 

In fact, Disney even took it a step further and recently began discounting TA commissions on transferred reservations. In other words, if you book a cruise with Disney and then transfer it to a TA, that TA gets less of a commission. The TA only gets the full commission if she books the cruise herself.

 

Perhaps we are not your average HAL cruisers, but we are 3-star Mariners on our way to 4; however, we have 3 upcoming Disney cruises booked and just one HAL.

 

This is not to say that I am not disappointed in the change. We recently saved $750 by booking a one-week cruise with an online TA v. HAL directly. No shipboard credit + insurance is going to make up that difference.

[obriendan]

 

HAL WORLDWIDE PRICE INCREASE EFFECTIVE 2/13/10 - HURRY!

 

For what it's worth, the internet TA that the OP was citing has moved his ominous deadline back two days:

 

HAL WORLDWIDE PRICE INCREASE EFFECTIVE 2/15/10 - HURRY!

 

Dan

[pms4104]

For what it's worth, the internet TA that the OP was citing has moved his ominous deadline back two days:

 

HAL WORLDWIDE PRICE INCREASE EFFECTIVE 2/15/10 - HURRY!

 

Dan

I think it is disengenuous or misleading or whatever for an agent/agency to state that, in essence, HAL is increasing prices ... when it more likely is that HAL's prices may remain stable and HAL will permit only pricing that HAL has authorized.

[kazu]

Thank you, Kel, for an interesting perspective on the pricing, and my apologies if I caused confusion with the original post which erroneously suggested NCL had a fixed pricing policy in place, which as I see from the thread is not true.

 

I suppose ultimately competition manages to keep all the lines striking a balance between cost and profit, and as I said in the firest posting, I hope it will not be the consumers who will pay for this.

 

I hadn't thought about the possibility that Holland would also lower the prices even after final payment (they have never done so historically, though clearly Celebrity and others have) nor have I seen anything of the sort mentioned regarding HALs fixing prices, but I suppose the two may work hand-in-hand.

 

Unfortunately, I realize a great deal of this has to do with where you cruise, and since our passion has always been the Med, where prices tend to start low and climb high, it may also be a matter of itinerary which will result in less favorable costing.

 

I suppose we will have to wait and see how this develops...

 

sorry, have to disagree with the statement that HAL doesn't lower prices after payment. they did for us two cruises ago when they posted a sale. and we did indeed get the discount and it was over $2,000 My TA had to work, but it was done.

 

I share the same concerns as everyone else but I still see HAL sailings listed on ----- and there are still last minute discounts and HAl still offers deals to mariners. maybe they have lowered their overall prices to make them more reasonable. we just booked their inaugural transatlantic which has beautiful med stops and most of the major cruise lines that do transatlantic just do a couple and then go (including Regent). So, when I worked out per day, it was a good value. especially considering the quality of service that I get on Hal.

 

If they price themselves out of the market, they will have to change, but I can tell you right now that this particular cruise is probably about 70% sold (and all the 'top' categories are sold out). and it doesn't go to October. ( I comparison shopped this to our last cruise and it is a bit cheaper overall than the last one which is on sale) I suspect HAL has decreased pricing a bit to avoid the 'last minute' deals as much as possible.

 

Not sure, just my thoughts. So far, I still like them. Have been dissapointed by too many others. Jacqui

[rich_cathybrock]

For what it's worth, the internet TA that the OP was citing has moved his ominous deadline back two days:

 

HAL WORLDWIDE PRICE INCREASE EFFECTIVE 2/15/10 - HURRY!

 

Dan

 

I have booked with this online TA the last three cruises, and twice we had another couple with us who also used them. Never ever had a problem at all, and have even begun using their online engine since our TA there retired year before last.

 

Still, this bothers me. Why change the date now on their site???

[wander]

Did I miss something? Has any other agent or agency said anything about the alleged change mentioned by OP or is all of this only based on one Agency's advertisement?

[gregdude]

It seems obvious to me, they changed the date because they have not met their $$ goals. This has nothing to do with HAL changing a policy. As the days pass it is becoming more and more obvious they they created this situation. This agency attempted, and to some degree succeeded, is starting a sales panic under what seem like false pretense. How many times have you seen a sign in a store window stating "Going Out Of Business Sale" only to see the same sign in the same store window months latter.

 

Some of you believe you are saving money with them, but I'm not going to trust them with my money when they make up the rules on a day to day basis like they have over the past week.

 

It will be interesting to go online Monday to see what the new date is going to be???