Greek Economy could affect travel plans

[Fblack]

When will those strikers figure it out that tourism is the lifeblood of much of their country. Here's a few more stories.

 

Strike in Greece Causes Airport Closures and Travel Delays:

On Tuesday, a two day strike by a Greek trade union began, hampering the plans of anyone trying to travel to and from Greece... Air traffic controllers will take industrial action for four hours in the morning and four hours in the evenings, effectively grounding planes for the duration of the general walkout. Travelers hoping to escape the mainland by ferry may also find their passage blocked. Piraeus port in Athens will shut down...,

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/170750/20110628/greece-austerity-measures-strike-protest-travel-airports-budget-debt.htm

 

and

 

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Protesters-clash-with-riot-police-in-Athens-strike-1443074.php Check out the photos

[Mexfolkart]

We were just in the Med and about to dock in Athens one day and Istanbul the next and do both on our own.When Bin Laden was killed...we stayed with Athens on our own as it had just happened and we felt safe still..but for the next day we were reluctant to do a country where we spoke none of the local language on our own in light of what had just happened so we asked if we could still sign up for ships tours..we felt that at least the ships tour people would know where it was still safe and if any problems they would get us out fast..all was fine and we enjoyed the tours!! But we were glad we had changed and done it that way..Sherry

[MANURULES]

We were just in the Med and about to dock in Athens one day and Istanbul the next and do both on our own.When Bin Laden was killed...we stayed with Athens on our own as it had just happened and we felt safe still..but for the next day we were reluctant to do a country where we spoke none of the local language on our own in light of what had just happened so we asked if we could still sign up for ships tours..we felt that at least the ships tour people would know where it was still safe and if any problems they would get us out fast..all was fine and we enjoyed the tours!! But we were glad we had changed and done it that way..Sherry

 

 

What is the connection between Bin Laden and Athens?

[cruisemom42]

We were just in the Med and about to dock in Athens one day and Istanbul the next and do both on our own.When Bin Laden was killed...we stayed with Athens on our own as it had just happened and we felt safe still..but for the next day we were reluctant to do a country where we spoke none of the local language on our own in light of what had just happened so we asked if we could still sign up for ships tours..we felt that at least the ships tour people would know where it was still safe and if any problems they would get us out fast..all was fine and we enjoyed the tours!! But we were glad we had changed and done it that way..Sherry

 

 

You do realize that the Muslim population in Greece is only about 3% of the total?

[iancal]

,,,and do you actually realize that being a Muslim does not make one a Bin Laden supporter, an al Queda (sp) supporter, or a terrorist supporter????

 

We were in Crete when we heard. It was a non event and we would not have even know had it not been for some British tourists who were guests at the hotel.

[cruise kitty]

Ok, here's my question...we already have istanbul, mykonos & santorini scheduled, if our cruise line decides to pull athens, (even at the last minute) what's the most likely substitute??? Crete?

 

I'd like to just be a bit prepared & have a back up plan.

[Trece]

For those planning to port in Athens, what might be really helpful is an idea of what this really means in "crass tourist" terms.

 

We spent 10 days in Athens in February of this year. Some of the current problems were already evident though I think things are much worse now. I just want to start by saying it was one of our favorite vacations & we managed just fine, so anything I say that may come across negative is only meant to be realistic & helpful & is not intended to be a slur of any kind.

 

If PUBLIC transportation is shut down---are private taxis and double decker buses still running? or is it like a general strike where the only option is exhorbitant rickshaws or donkeys.

 

Taxis were running at that time but since they were in demand by the locals as well as tourists during strikes, they are nothing I would want to be depending on if I were, for example, trying to get back to the ship before it sailed. Taxi drivers can overcharge ruthlessly during average times, I can't imagine what they might be like when they know they are the only game in town! I can't speak to the HOHO buses but I'm pretty sure they ran during the public transportation strikes.

 

Our biggest potential problem was an air traffic controller strike was scheduled for the day of our flight home. We were freaking out that our flight would be cancelled. For the most part strikes are announced in advance & our hotel desk monitored the situation for us. The strike was scheduled to begin at 10 a.m. Our flight was at 9:00 a.m. We went to the airport where all appeared normal on the surface. The pilot had our plane in the air by 8:45 a.m. and it was one of the last flights out that day, according to a friend at home who was monitoring the airport website.

 

Are tourist areas targeted? e.g. do they shut down tourist entry to the Acropolis or simply have soldiers with machine guns around as stepped up security.

 

They shut down entry. Totally locked up. Even during periods when they are "open," it seems like the employees run things. The Acropolis, for example, closed at 3 during the time we were there, which was considered winter. At about 2:15, the guards started blowing whistles & rounding tourists up, hustling them towards the exits. They were very persistent. We went to the national museum on a night when it had evening hours, but somehow it had been decided that certain wings (like the Egyptian wing that we especially wanted to see) were closed. The gift shop & cafeteria were closed. Of course no one mentioned when we paid our admission that probably 1/3 of the museum was unavailable for no apparent reason. To us it appeared as though the employees were in charge with no oversight.

 

Are tourists targeted? beyond the usual pickpocketing, are they specifically heckling those in Hawaiian shirts with cameras and preventing them from reaching tourist spots.

 

We did not feel this at all. The prevailing attitude among shopkeepers & restaurant and hotel employees was friendly & helpful, but service from anyone that appeared to be a government employee was sullen and uncooperative. However, this did not appear to be aimed at tourists but at everyone! Equal opportunity sullenness!

 

Are other services open (food/drinks/shopping/hospitals/banks)? I assume they aren't trying to vandalize ATMs or prevent people from walking into malls.

 

We were told that almost every profession strikes, from doctors to pharmacists to bankers to air traffic controllers. As a rule we had no problem with food or shopping. Didn't need a hospital. But - ATMs WERE vandalized. We had begun using one closest to our hotel when we arrived but within a few days it had been vandalized & it never re-opened for use. There were others that we used with no problem. The shops in the Plaka were always open during normal business hours when we were there though on the day we left (the day of the air traffic controller strike) we were told that the shops might close that day too.

 

I think the strikes occur more often and involve more people now than when we were there. The stakes are higher and people are even more upset. I can't imagine what it would be like to be there as a port stop these days, but personally I would hire a private guide before I left home who can get you around speedily & who knows the areas to avoid, and knows what sites might be open or closed, OR take a ship tour even if you don't normally do so. I would not be doing Athens on my own during this time (and I say this having been there several times as a port stop and twice in hotels for longer periods), not so much from a fear factor, but because I would want to be able to salvage as much as I could & I would want to be sure I could get back to the ship in a timely manner, and a guide would enable me to accomplish this.

 

It's a wonderful city & every time I see it on the news I am in tears over the troubles there.

[Judge_Mental]

Yes, THANK YOU- VERY helpful. I was hoping for a person/tourist on the scene perspective and this is what you provided. I've traveled a lot and sometimes what is reported is quite different from the reality. For Athens, it seems many folks are DIY and I think it is safe to assume that for at least the next month or so, this may not be advisable. Thanks again.

[4774Papa]

Ok, here's my question...we already have istanbul, mykonos & santorini scheduled, if our cruise line decides to pull athens, (even at the last minute) what's the most likely substitute??? Crete?

 

I'd like to just be a bit prepared & have a back up plan.

Perhaps Crete, but Crete is a bit out of the way. One choice would be Nafplion. That would be a great stop. We liked Nafplion. Also, you can go to Mycenae from there.

[Trece]

You're welcome, glad it helped. We've traveled a lot too & are not at all "nervous nellie" travelers. DIY is definitely NOT the way to go for the foreseeable future, because most of DIY is dependent on normally functioning public transportation, normally functioning & reliable hours of operation of tourist sites, and a normal attitude of people involved in tourist infrastructure. The best I could call the situation in February is FRAGILE and we were able to cope because we did not have to be anywhere at any given time i.e. back to a ship, and because we developed a relationship with the front desk at the hotel, which provided some (but not total) guidance.

 

The guides that people talk about on CC keep in close touch with each other, know which streets may be affected, which professions may be affected, and sometimes one site might be open where another one is closed and they know it. They know what the traffic situation may be between Athens & Piraeus. They can be really flexible. Who knows, they may even suggest going out of the city to somewhere like ancient Corinth instead. Next best would be a ship tour and for me to recommend a ship tour means I truly believe that there are no other options!

[vjmatty]

Next best would be a ship tour and for me to recommend a ship tour means I truly believe that there are no other options!

 

Same here.... both my parents were born in Greece and I speak the language fluently, yet for Athens even I am doing a ship's tour to the Corinth Canal when we visit there in September. Actually I was going to take that tour anyway since I'd never been there before in all of my years of visiting Greece, but in any event it is the safer choice.

[cruisemom42]

I would strongly urge those who are going to Athens soon to have a look at the Tripadvisor Athens forum (link below), where local experts who are actually there post information on an almost daily basis to reassure travelers. I certainly would not hesitate at all to DIY in Athens right now. I was there last fall (early and late) when protests were ongoing. There were no problems whatsoever.

 

Again, for the dozenth time, the protests are against the government, they are limited to the area at and around Syntagma Square, and unless there is a general (or transportation) strike scheduled for the day of your visit, there will likely be no impact on any of the tourist sites.

 

To expound a bit on the post above about closing times -- Greece introduced austerity measures last year to cut costs. Staffing at museums and cultural sites was significantly impacted, and earlier closures, particularly for the winter months were announced (and have been referred to several times on this board). It certainly is NOT in the hands of the employees as to when things close. The Athens Archaeological Museum had a 3pm winter closure but now is open until 4pm for their prime summer season. It was also reported in 2010 that some areas of the museum may be closed due to staffing issues. However, they keep the main galleries open, which is what most visitors want to see (e.g., the Mycenaean gold, famous sculpture, bronzes, etc).

 

These closures have nothing to do with strikes or protests. Most strikes are announced well in advance -- again, keeping an eye on the Athens board at Tripadvisor will provide a more balanced view.

 

Tripadvisor Athens board: http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowForum-g189400-i194-Athens_Attica.html

 

Link to Athens Museum Official Site with hours: http://www.namuseum.gr/contact-en.html

 

 

I understand many people prefer a private tour. However, I'm mainly concerned with those who might be inclined to DIY but are hesitating due to inflated reports of problems. Do your research and you will find all is well in Athens. In case there were to be some massive problem, it is likely the ship will not stop there at all.

[Fblack]

Cruisemom42:

 

For me, the main problem are the transportation workers who strike. I cancelled a cruise last year that started and ended in Athens. I did not want to have problems with my flights if the traffic controllers or other airport workers walked off the job. (As they are doing sporadically this week.) And last year, they blocked the pier a few times as well. As for taking a cruise with a one day stop in Athens, worst thing is you may miss the port or a tourist area. As long as I'm not flying in or out of Athens, I have no problems with strikes.

[cruisemom42]

Cruisemom42:

 

For me, the main problem are the transportation workers who strike. I cancelled a cruise last year that started and ended in Athens. I did not want to have problems with my flights if the traffic controllers or other airport workers walked off the job. (As they are doing sporadically this week.) And last year, they blocked the pier a few times as well. As for taking a cruise with a one day stop in Athens, worst thing is you may miss the port or a tourist area. As long as I'm not flying in or out of Athens, I have no problems with strikes.

 

Everyone has to find their own comfort level. I think I remember discussing the issue with you last year when you were deciding what to do.

 

I flew into and out of Athens on one cruise last fall in September, and out of Athens on another cruise in November. I monitored the flight situation most of the summer and fall. I found VERY few flights were cancelled due to strikes/walk-offs during that period. Perhaps it has increased this year, but not sure by how much -- however, it's easy enough to check.

 

Anytime you travel there are risks involved. I didn't find the risks in Athens to be outside the norm for me. Flights can be delayed or cancelled anywhere and for any reason -- strikes, volcanoes, equipment issues, weather, who knows what....

 

Only times I've ever had problems with overseas flights have been those that originated in the US. In order, from most recent to oldest, cancellations or delays of >24 hours from US airports: 1) Volcanic ash from Iceland (US to London), Equipment failure (US to Frankfurt), Mandatory safety grounding of aircraft for inspection (US to London), Equipment failure (US to Rome), and finally the long-remembered US Air Traffic Controllers strike (US to Dublin).

[Hoyaheel]

Our cruise starts in Athens in Sept (2011) and we're flying in a couple days early to enjoy & explore. On foot if necessary:p

[vjmatty]

However, I'm mainly concerned with those who might be inclined to DIY but are hesitating due to inflated reports of problems. Do your research and you will find all is well in Athens. In case there were to be some massive problem, it is likely the ship will not stop there at all.

 

My only reluctance is that for me, DIY involves the metro or the Flying Dolphins.... if the problems are with transportation strikes and pier blocking these would both be unavailable. I suppose I could visit distant relatives living in Piraeus and have a nice, long, leisurely lunch, so the world would not end if this happened.

 

I am renting a car in every other Greek port but reluctant to do so in Piraeus because I hate city traffic.... hence the ship's tour instead of driving to Corinth Canal.

[Trece]

I certainly would not hesitate at all to DIY in Athens right now. I was there last fall (early and late) when protests were ongoing. There were no problems whatsoever.

 

We were there last fall as well (cruise stop) and then the aforementioned 10 days in February. We had no problems last fall either. The questions weren't about last fall and I didn't comment about last fall, the questions were about more recent history. No one posted anything really recent, so in the interest of trying to help I posted about February. I aimed my wording towards a first time cruise stop visitor, not someone like yourself that has traveled extensively and is very resourceful & used to traveling independently.

 

Again, for the dozenth time, the protests are against the government, they are limited to the area at and around Syntagma Square, and unless there is a general (or transportation) strike scheduled for the day of your visit, there will likely be no impact on any of the tourist sites.

 

The questions I was responding to for the most part WERE about public transportation. During the 10 days, we experienced three strikes that involved public transportation (metro) and on the last day the general strike which had the potential to affect us in terms of the air traffic control. There could have been other strikes we didn't know about because we didn't use public transportation every day and the strikes can come & go in a matter of a few hours. I would say four of 10 days back in February was a fairly significant disruption in public transportation availability. They were not entire days but if you're trying to get back to the ship, it doesn't matter if the strike was the whole day or just four hours if it's the four hours you need.

 

To expound a bit on the post above about closing times -- Greece introduced austerity measures last year to cut costs. Staffing at museums and cultural sites was significantly impacted, and earlier closures, particularly for the winter months were announced (and have been referred to several times on this board). It certainly is NOT in the hands of the employees as to when things close.

 

The 3 pm closure at the Acropolis was no surprise to me and I never said it was. The 2:15 blowing of whistles by staff was. Everyone's expectations at the Acropolis may differ but I don't think anyone expected to have to listen to 45 minutes of continual whistle blowing and staff literally rounding people up and herding them towards the exit. If you stopped to take a photo while they were herding, you were yelled at. It was my 4th visit to the Acropolis and that had never happened before. If the closing hour is 3 pm, I expect to be able to stay until 3 pm. If I go to a two hour movie, I don't expect someone to start blowing a whistle at the one hour & 15 minute mark.

 

The Athens Archaeological Museum had a 3pm winter closure but now is open until 4pm for their prime summer season. It was also reported in 2010 that some areas of the museum may be closed due to staffing issues. However, they keep the main galleries open, which is what most visitors want to see (e.g., the Mycenaean gold, famous sculpture, bronzes, etc).

 

We went at night and I understand winter hours & austerity measures but I do expect there to be on site disclosure before I buy my ticket that areas of the museum are closed. The Egyptian wing is one of the most famous in the world and for it to be closed without notice is inappropriate. We could easily have come back on a different day had we known. The gift shop & cafeteria were closed and even the toilets were closed. The fact that it was not announced by any posted sign or verbally by the ticket people, and the fact that there seemed to be a lot of staff on hand in the exhibit areas and most of them were just milling around & talking on their cell phones gave me the idea that perhaps the staff was not well supervised and had decided on its own to close off that wing. Total speculation on my part but when I see a lot of employees blatantly chatting away on cell phones I just assume "when the cat's away...." My bad.

 

These closures have nothing to do with strikes or protests. Most strikes are announced well in advance -- again, keeping an eye on the Athens board at Tripadvisor will provide a more balanced view.

 

I'm not sure how people disembarking the ship in Piraeus for a day in Athens are supposed to access Tripadvisor for the latest information but I suppose it's possible. And I do sortof feel uncomfortable that you perceive my view to be unbalanced because I thought it was pretty accurate based on who I was aiming my comments at. I might also venture to say that someone in Athens involved in the tourist industry who might be posting at Tripadvisor might also have their own agenda and might also be downplaying some of the issues a first time visitor might encounter. I've read some of what is posted there and to state that "there are no riots" and "metro is never affected" - I'm speechless.

 

I monitored the flight situation most of the summer and fall. I found VERY few flights were cancelled due to strikes/walk-offs during that period. Perhaps it has increased this year, but not sure by how much -- however, it's easy enough to check.

 

This is a quote from a UK newspaper that I saved regarding what transpired the day we flew home in February:

 

"The 24-hour strike halted trains, ferries and most public transport across the country, and led to the cancellation of more than 100 flights at Athens International Airport. The strike also closed the Acropolis and other major tourist sites."

 

100 flights in one day is pretty significant to me and it's happened several times since then, I just didn't happen to save those articles.

 

I never said passengers should avoid Athens or cower in their cabins. I never said I thought anyone was going to get shot or mugged or even pickpocketed. Athens is one of my favorite cities and under normal circumstances it is very DIY-able. But - I think a lot of US passengers don't use public transportation at home so it's an unfamiliar situation to begin with. Throw in unexpected transportation disruptions, a foreign language (before you say that a lot of the signage is in English I will acknowledge this), a strictly limited amount of time in port and a fair distance from Piraeus to Athens and there is alot of potential for things to go wrong. I still would not recommend a DIY day for a cruise passenger visiting Athens for the first time in the immediate future.

 

Again I think you are looking at the day in port from your perspective and my comments were not aimed at someone like yourself, because someone like yourself would not be posting asking this type of question.

 

You probably don't remember me but we discussed that dahabiyah trip a few years ago! Are you up for that soon? ;)

[Hlitner]

As long-time confirmed DIYers (we are currently driving through Belgium at this time) we think this thread often gets overdramatic and off point. The situation in Greece has nothing to do with the muslim population (not sure why this subject has been mentioned), Bin Laden, etc. Greece is simply undergoing an economic crisis of their own doing and trying to cope with the reality that their country is bankrupt (fellow American;s should pay heed). Like the USA, Greece has long ignored the cost of government and its no come home to roost. So, how does this effect cruisers? Well, the overly publicized demonstrations in Athens happen in a small area centered on Syntagma Square (Constitution Square) and this area should be avoided during demonstrations. But this is a small part of Athens, nowhere near the port of Pireaus, and has nothing to do with places like Crete, Santorini, etc. Strikes are a totally different issue (may or may not be related to demonstrations) and need to be a consideration in planning. For those going to Pireaus and wanting to go off on your own, you should keep alert to the possibility of strikes via the internet. The odds are in your favor but strikes of public transit can and do happen from time to time (this also happens elsewhere in western Europe). Although the economic situation does impact on all of Greece, it does not seem to be a problem for tourists away from Athens.

 

Hank

[TLCOhio]

Appreciate the added info and keen insights from Trece, Cynthia, Hank, etc. My reading of the news this am is that the major "battle" is now over. Much of this has been political "theater" in trying to force the government to say "NO" to the Europe demands for the budget cuts, tax hikes and asset sales. That didn't happen yesterday. Greece's government needs the cash from Germany, France, etc., and is saying yes to the changes. The unions and government workers are not happy. Life will go on . . . for now! Kind of, somewhat.

 

As you read the major news sources, there are still major questions on whether this will really "FIX" the Greek economy, long-term. Greece's parliament will pass a second austerity bill today to enable the country to avert bankruptcy by securing a $17 billion loan from the EU. The key votes and action were Tuesday and Wednesday. My sense is that now for the rest of the summer, things will settle back more to "normal".

 

From the respected Reuters newswire within the past hour today, they have this headline: "Dangers lurk beyond Greek parliament vote" with these highlights: "longer-term dangers still lurk . . . . credit insurance markets are still pricing in an 80 percent chance of Greece defaulting on its 340 billion euro debt mountain -- 150 percent of annual economic output -- within five years, and a likely 40 percent write-down for bondholders on three-year debt. Prime Minister George Papandreou's socialist government may find it hard to enforce tax increases and state asset sales against massive public resistance, while a violent fringe always present in Greek politics has burst to the fore."

 

There are still bigger problems, overall, challenging Europe. This Reuters story notes: "As Athens recovered from a night of violence, market concerns shifted from the danger of an immediate disorderly default for the first time in the euro zone to the medium-term prospect of a Greek debt restructuring. 'There's still implementation risk over the next few months but for now the default risk has been taken off the table so long as today's vote goes through,' said Lloyds Bank strategist Eric Wand. He forecast renewed pressure on the bonds of weaker euro zone countries on the edges of the single currency area after a temporary respite. Those included the prospect of early Spanish elections and squabbling within Italy's center-right coalition as the country faces a credit rating downgrade."

 

The BBC summary is very good, include one expert making this point that he is: "not surprised Greek people are protesting as subsidies are for banks and the euro itself, 'not for your average Greek citizen.' " The long-term Euro challenge is to hold together the whole group of countries and diverse economies as Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc., are all suffering from serious problems, bad unemployment, high debt, slow growth, etc.

 

From German's Spiegel, the headline was: "Greek Reforms 'Like Putting a Band-Aid on a Mortal Wound' " This summary has a wide range of reactions from key German sources and doubts that this fix will really change much for the coming years.

 

Expect to read about these issues for years to come. BUT, hopefully, for most cruise visitors, they will be able to see and enjoy the greatness there in Athens and Greece.

 

Full stories and added details/analysis at:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/30/us-eurozone-idUSTRE75T1IM20110630

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/seealso/2011/06/daily_view_what_does_greeces_a.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,771534,00.html

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Just back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc. These postings are now over 15,640 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2011, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now over 45,045 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

 

Appreciate those who have “tuned in” for these two posts. Don’t be shy and feel free to comment and/or ask any questions of interest.

[sunsetbeachgal]

The same protests and one day strikes were going on last summer and unfortunately one was especially violent and several local workers were killed.

 

I seem to remember that some of the cruises cancelled the stop in Athens when the stop coincided with announced one day strikes (and have no idea if something else was substituted-my experience is that if a stop is cancelled last minute there usually is no substitution). Our ship embarked from Athens, and we really did not see anything amiss. Those on the islands said the problems then were limited to Athens and were just going on with life as normal.

[Judge_Mental]

Thank you again. I have also read the TripAdvisor postings but as mentioned, I too am cynical about the motivations of the posters and appreciate getting a variety of perspectives. While I have not been to Greece, I HAVE been caught in several unexpected "mob scenes" (in the US and abroad) and did not want a repeat.

 

I am not a newbie traveler and know that instability, whatever the reason has a low flashpoint, and is NOT as easily confined as travel agents/tour guides would have you believe. I like to plan and unlike those who can afford the luxury of annual trips to Greece, I have to make the most of this one time opportunity and evaluate the ROI of DIY versus other options with the most current, unbiased, accurate info. which I can find.

[MANURULES]

Thank you again. I have also read the TripAdvisor postings but as mentioned, I too am cynical about the motivations of the posters and appreciate getting a variety of perspectives. While I have not been to Greece, I HAVE been caught in several unexpected "mob scenes" (in the US and abroad) and did not want a repeat.

 

I am not a newbie traveler and know that instability, whatever the reason has a low flashpoint, and is NOT as easily confined as travel agents/tour guides would have you believe. I like to plan and unlike those who can afford the luxury of annual trips to Greece, I have to make the most of this one time opportunity and evaluate the ROI of DIY versus other options with the most current, unbiased, accurate info. which I can find.

 

 

I understand your cynicism.

In this case what is said over at Tripadvisor happens to be 100% acurate.

The local guys there are not travel agents,and are giving excellent info and descriptions.

I am a Greek national,and even though I live in the US ,I visit Athens about every other month .

I have family and substantial financial interests there,that require my presence .

Even though your emotions are understandable ,and your characterizations of the posters there is logical they are not not accurate in this case.

I have followed the posters there for many years and feel absolutely certain they do not represent commercial interests there.

 

A very difficult thing to convince someone about something,that he is very unfamiliar with, and never experienced the people sentiment and situation there.

We all need to make our own decisions.

I am a firm believer of not going to a place where I would feel that I would have to look over my shoulder ,especially on vacation.

In such a case I would look elsewhere.

Now i know that you will not have to look over your shoulder ,but its impossible for me to convince you or anyone else.

I know you would not convince me, if the roles were reversed.

.

[nick_arch]

I am one of those "motivated" DE's :)

I am one of "those" posting in Trip Advisor for more than six years and i can assure you no motivations apply.

As far as it is possible to know, none of the TA Athens Destination Experts are related to travel industry at any level.

 

Nevertheless, someone may have to underline the differences between the TA world and Cruise Critic. Roughly speaking, these two forums refer to different style travellers.

 

Majority of people asking for advice in TA Athens forum are DIY'ers that may be arriving for a day or two on their way to the islands. Or people asking advice about how to organize a 7 or 10 or more days trip in Greece, including in some part of it some days in Athens too.

 

On the contrary, people that are writing or asking advice in Cruise Ciritc are cruise ship passengers that are in the city for 6? 10? 12 hours? Not an overnight.

 

Under this different perspective, i am very sad to say that all this economical turmoil Greece unfortunately is in, can affect cruise ship passengers more. And main reason is that a cruise ship stop is always tight timed, having no "second chance" to see something.

 

 

Are cruise ship passengers concerns justified and sensible? In my opinion: Definitely yes:

Strikes of big magnitude that affect site closures and public transportation disruptions can take place 5 or 6 times a year, for 24 hrs each at their huge majority. If someone IS in Athens, he /she definitely make some adjustments. City really never comes to an halt. For example, on strike days, Acropolis Museum, being a private institution, is open. Restaurants too. Shops too. It may not be a big deal to visit Acropolis site next day if you have the luxury of time to do so.

 

Nevertheless, a cruise ship passenger cannot afford this luxury. He / she is there for a portion of a day. And even if alternative plans may be made, only taste a closure of the Acropolis can leave to the unlucky passenger that is here on the 5 - 6 days per year this closure happens, is sour. Extremely and justified sour.

 

Problem rising in Athens is not that of safety. Despite the rising pickpocketing levels, Athens is a pretty safe place. Nevertheless inconsistency on services provided at ancient sites and museums ( meaning the 5 - 6 times a year they are closed due to strike action ) can be a real pain.

 

Some betting? Some planning?

Ending this, i 'd again say, statistically speaking, this:

Strikes that affect sites take place 5 - 6 days per year. It's 5 - 6 days per 365 days. Unfortunately it is impossible to make a long term projection, since these strikes are usually announced beforehand but only 1 - 3 weeks before.

 

If someone wants to bet a bit, it's nearly sure that a strike of this kind will never take place on Sunday. It's no sound choice for a union to declare Sunday as a strike day. These strikes are all around the public sector, mainly government offices, tax service, taking along employees on ancient sites. So, it 'd be really stupid to declare Sunday as a strike day.

 

Under a similar perspective, Saturday is a similar case, while Friday and Monday are also less exposed to strike action cause public services employees would be tempted to exploit this, creating a nice long weekend.

 

Days that are excessively exposed to strike action are Wednesday and Thursday. If i am correct, 9 out of 10 strikes during the last 2 years were on Wed or Thu. One case was a Tue too.

 

So, if someone wants a practical rule ( please accept that i don't have a crystal ball ), i 'd say that Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon are good days to plan for site visits, intl flights etc. On the contrary, from the start of 2011, we can count 26 Tuesdays with Acropolis being closed on 5 of them.

 

So, that's it :)

[vjmatty]

Efcharisto poli Niko, for that very helpful information :) Luckily our port stop is on a Sunday this trip.

[TLCOhio]

MANURULES: The local guys there are not travel agents' date=' and are giving excellent info and descriptions. I am a Greek national,and even though I live in the US , I visit Athens about every other month. I have family and substantial financial interests there,that require my presence .

Even though your emotions are understandable ,and your characterizations of the posters there is logical they are not not accurate in this case. [/quote']

 

nick_arch: So' date=' if someone wants a practical rule ( please accept that i don't have a crystal ball ), i 'd say that Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon are good days to plan for site visits, intl flights etc. On the contrary, from the start of 2011, we can count 26 Tuesdays with Acropolis being closed on 5 of them. [/quote']

 

Appreciate the added background and info posted above. Very helpful in sharing. From the Reuters newswire one hour ago today, they have this headline: "Greek sovereignty to be massively limited - Juncker" with these highlights: "Greece faces severe restrictions on its sovereignty and must privatise state assets on a scale similar to the sell off of East German firms in the 1990s after communism fell, Eurogroup chairman Jean-Claude Juncker said. In an interview published after euro zone finance ministers in the Eurogroup approved a further 12 billion euro instalment of Greece's bailout, Juncker said he was optimistic that measures agreed with Athens would help to resolve the country's problems. Greeks are acutely sensitive to any infringement of their sovereignty or suggestions of foreign 'commissars' getting involved in running the country. Athens must sell off five billion euros in state assets this year alone or risk missing targets set under its EU/IMF programme, which could cut off its funding needed to keep the government running and avoid a debt default. A repeat of Germany's Treuhand experience may prove bitter for Greeks, who are already suffering soaring unemployment as a recession drags into its third year"

 

Juncker said the Greek crisis had been largely caused by itself. "Between 1999 and 2010 wages rose 106.6 percent even though the economy did not grow at the same pace. The wage policies were completely out of control and not based on (gains in) productivity," he said.

 

An Irish newspaper today had this headline: "Greek unions promise war but public may turn its back" with this highlight: "As part of the new austerity programme finally passed by parliament last week, the loss-making Hellenic Railways Network, along with dozens of enterprises ranging from casinos to gold mines and power stations to ports, is to be offered for privatisation. In will come up to €50bn of the €320bn Greece owes the rest of the world and out will go the power base of the country's overpaid, underworked public sector, whose militant unions are seen as one of the main political obstacles to reform. There could be strikes, sit-ins and, if privatisation went ahead regardless, even industrial sabotage. Yet just how much public backing the unions will really get in such a dust-up is open to question. For all the protests in Athens's Syntagma Square, where dreadlocked radicals stage violent demonstrations, patience with the unions among the rest of the public is wearing increasingly thin."

 

From these readings, my view continues to be that most cruise stops in Athens, etc., will work out. But, keep monitoring and watching, as your cruise lines will be doing.

 

Full stories at:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/07/03/uk-greece-juncker-idUKTRE76210120110703

http://www.iol.co.za/business/international/debt-crisis-in-greece-not-over-yet-1.1092445

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/greek-unions-promise-war-but-public-may-turn-its-back-2811892.html

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

 

Just back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc. These postings are now at 16,386 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2011, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 45,345 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

 

Appreciate those who have “tuned in” for these two posts. Don’t be shy and feel free to comment and/or ask any questions of interest.