Who Wants an End to HAL Formal Nights Entirely?

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

I would like to see formal nights remain. I like to dress up!:)

 

If the "Formal Night" does not remain, does that mean you can not dress up? If it were important to me I'd still dress up.

[TracieABD]

If the "Formal Night" does not remain, does that mean you can not dress up? If it were important to me I'd still dress up.

I do really like to dress up, but I don't want to be the most overdressed in a crowd... That might just be a little too much!:)

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

I do really like to dress up, but I don't want to be the most overdressed in a crowd... That might just be a little too much!:)

 

From reading this thread it sounds like there will be plenty of other people dressing "Formally", because they like to. So you will have plenty of company. I believe if you like to dress up then that is your perogative. I don't think that's too much at all. :)

 

Excuse the diversion but, since I have not been on HAL before, about how full or empty is the MDR on Formal Nights?

[clickchick]

We both vote yes to keeping formal nights. I asked husband whom I assumed would be in favor of doing away with it and he said "Even I wouldn't want to see it go."

 

This is our only chance to dress up and for us, it adds to the fact that a cruise is special. There are plenty of other occasions on a cruise to be casual and relaxed.

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

I read quite a few of the posts on this thread and it seems pretty close to an even split between "Formal" to stay and "Casual" to replace "Formal". I think maybe there is room for both. There are plenty of Dining options for both sides. What is not right is that the "Casual" folks are not allowed in the MDR on "Formal" night and so they have fewer dining options. How can we even this out? Maybe one night, the Lido dining could be all "Formal" so those who really like dressing up could continue to enjoy the experience and then only the "Casual" crowd could have the MDR that same night. Win-Win! :)

[Topsham]

I read quite a few of the posts on this thread and it seems pretty close to an even split between "Formal" to stay and "Casual" to replace "Formal". I think maybe there is room for both. There are plenty of Dining options for both sides. What is not right is that the "Casual" folks are not allowed in the MDR on "Formal" night and so they have fewer dining options. How can we even this out? Maybe one night, the Lido dining could be all "Formal" so those who really like dressing up could continue to enjoy the experience and then only the "Casual" crowd could have the MDR that same night. Win-Win! :)

 

 

 

To me, complying with the requested dress code for the evening is merely good manners toward your fellow passengers. For those that choose to be casual, there are alternatives restaurants.. even alternative cruise lines!:eek: Nah... we don't want to go that way!

 

Seriously what is being overlooked is that 'formal night' was not just intended to be in the dining room. It was the dress code for the entire ship for that particular evening. It was usually a night of speciaal dining... when the caviar was presented and the champagne flowed. It gave the passengers a change for normal routine. The show that night would be something extra special and later there would be some speciaal event... like HAL's famous Black & White balls.

 

Unfortunately some complained so HAL introduced casual dining in the Lido. It was so that passengers who did not want to get dressed in formal weaar could dine casually without having to remain in the cabins. I don't think it was ever intended that the dress code was just for the dining room... it was for all bars and lounges as well.

 

In pretty short time that all changed. What a shame.

 

I'm afraid that we will get what we ask for. Casual cruising sounds just fine... if it stays that way, but I doubt it will. Elegantly casual will soon became 'anything goes'. What if some decide that it is OK to wear a baseball cap (sideways) into the dining room? What about dirty scruffy jeans without belt almost down to the knees with undershorts and ugly hairy crackage showing? Should we then complain and be told, "Hey it is my holiday and I dress the way I like!"

 

Be careful what we ask for!!!!!

 

There are casual cruise lines in operation and the choice is always to go there if HAL's dress code is not acceptable for any reason. No one is forced to buy a HAL cruise.

 

Complying with HAL's dress code is merely showing good manners towards your fellow passengers.

 

Stephen

[Winters in NZ]

The formal nights should be retained on HAL, however I have taken NCL and enjoyed the freestyle aspect of cruising as well as well.

[Topsham]

The formal nights should be retained on HAL, however I have taken NCL and enjoyed the freestyle aspect of cruising as well as well.

 

 

 

Math Guy,

 

You have it exactly right. HAL should retain formal night and if we choose to be casual we have the option of cruising with several other lines. That does not mean that we have to sail on cheap, rubbish ships either, some of the upscale ships are run along casual lines... like Oceana.

 

I have sailed casual as well and enjoyed it. HAL is more formal and I have no problem with that either and compared to some, HAL is not formal at all!

 

With Saga Cruises their operation is similar to HAL... Formal, Informal and Casual. The difference is that the dress code is strictly enforced. When they say Tux or dark suit they mean exactly that. Informal means blazer or sports jacket and casual is casual. Passengers are reminded that the dress code in in effect for the entire evening and in all public lounges. If you want to dress down then you can go to the Lido and then back to your cabin.... unless you hide in the cinema! The thing is there is very little 'enforcement' at all. Their passengers read the requirements before the cruise and they observe the requested dress code. No complaints and you never hear any grumbling. When you walk into a dining room where all 500 passengers are dressed formally it creats a splendid atmosphere. On my last cruise with Saga we did an overnight in Venice. It was made a formal night. The company chairman flew in to host a cocktail party for all passengers followed by a rather special dinner and then soprano Kathryn Jenkins did a performance in the ballroom.

 

 

We have the choice to cruise whith whatever cruise line we want but that does not me we should then dictate to them how they should run their ships!

 

Stephen

[iancal]

It is unclear to me why HAL has to do either. Could they not keep the MDR for formal and the Lido for casual? I am not a big fan of formal, in fact in has absolutely no attraction for me, but I would not want to impose my wishes on others. We have never found the MDR food on formal nights to be that special...in fact I never order lobster on board because it seldom lives up to my expectations.

 

The bigger issue may be what to do with the public areas on formal evenings. Alas, that has already been decided by all of the mainstream cruise lines and there will be no going back. They want the revenue that is derived from formal night activities AND the revenue that is derived from other areas that are not dependent on formal night customs such as the casino, the lounges, and the shops. Their cash registers do not discriminate between those formally attired and those who are not.

[Drlib2009]

The wife and I enjoy the Formal nights

 

I vote to keep them

[TracieABD]

I asked my husband his opinion. I was just sure he would want to jettison Formal Night. Surprisingly, he said keep them! He just does not want to wear a tux every time. I guess he will be in a suit on our upcoming cruise!:)

[cruisersMandW]

My DH and I live in FL where it is usually warm/ hot so we dress very casually. Dressing up on cruise is a nice change of pace for us. Even DH likes to put on a tux. So we vote for formal nights, as long as the Lido continues to offer an alternaive for those who choose not to dress up.

 

BTW we recently sailed on NCL and all I can say is that the dress down concept on NCL has rseulted in a very slippery slope. On the many people watching opportunities that "freestyle" dining lines provide we noticed families in gym shorts, tee shirts and sneakers at dinner on the optional formal nights. The staff was so busy trying to move the line that they either didn't notice or didn't care. Sad to say that is no longer an unusual sight on NCL.

[mom2tcdx2]

I have reviewed a bit of the comments, but I didn't read through them all. I would say though someone had a comment on how little room a formal dress would take up - most formal gowns that I have seen take up quite a bit of space. Slinkier dresses to me seem to fall under the elegant option of dress, not formal. I do believe many who are validating the formal nights, are actually wearing the dress of cruise elegant(Carnival's term). I have a full length gown and it would take up quite a bit of room in my bag. People also seem to confuse cocktail party dress with formal. Most of my dressy attire I would classify as elegant.

 

My BF doesn't own a suit and I am not so sure I will purchase one for him. Am I understanding though that if he wore a dress shirt and tie we wouldn't be able to dine in the dining rooms?

[Old As Dirt Mom]

..........

Seriously what is being overlooked is that 'formal night' was not just intended to be in the dining room. It was the dress code for the entire ship for that particular evening. It was usually a night of speciaal dining... when the caviar was presented and the champagne flowed. It gave the passengers a change for normal routine. The show that night would be something extra special and later there would be some speciaal event... like HAL's famous Black & White balls.

 

Stephen

 

 

Yes, well, when HAL returns to this standard of cruising on all of its voyages, not just the Grand and World Voyages, I will return to taking the "formal" dress code seriously.

[RuthC]

With Saga Cruises their operation is similar to HAL... Formal, Informal and Casual. The difference is that the dress code is strictly enforced. When they say Tux or dark suit they mean exactly that. Informal means blazer or sports jacket and casual is casual. Passengers are reminded that the dress code in in effect for the entire evening and in all public lounges. If you want to dress down then you can go to the Lido and then back to your cabin.... unless you hide in the cinema! The thing is there is very little 'enforcement' at all. Their passengers read the requirements before the cruise and they observe the requested dress code. No complaints and you never hear any grumbling. When you walk into a dining room where all 500 passengers are dressed formally it creats a splendid atmosphere.

Stephen, the more you post about Saga, the better you make it sound. It truly sounds like the HAL I started out with so long ago.

It's appealing enough that I am looking into some of their cruises.

My only concern is the food. The English aren't known for their cuisine. How is the dining for a real American palate?

[jtl513]

People also seem to confuse cocktail party dress with formal. Most of my dressy attire I would classify as elegant.

HAL's definition of formal is (IMO) less than elegant, and more like "dressy":

On festive Formal evenings, ladies wear a cocktail dress or

gown and gentlemen wear a suit and tie or tuxedo.

Am I understanding though that if he wore a dress shirt and tie we wouldn't be able to dine in the dining rooms?

If enforced, he would need at least a sport jacket.

[mr green]

I have only just joined this thread, however my response is that HAL should not sink to the level of the likes of NCL!!!

 

john

[mr green]

Stephen, the more you post about Saga, the better you make it sound. It truly sounds like the HAL I started out with so long ago.

 

My only concern is the food. The English aren't known for their cuisine. How is the dining for a real American palate?

 

Food in England has greatly improved over the years, all palates can at last be well satisfied.

 

john

[RuthC]

Food in England has greatly improved over the years, all palates can at last be well satisfied.

 

john

Specifically, that's true on Saga?

[Seavoyage]

I have reviewed a bit of the comments, but I didn't read through them all. I would say though someone had a comment on how little room a formal dress would take up - most formal gowns that I have seen take up quite a bit of space. Slinkier dresses to me seem to fall under the elegant option of dress, not formal. I do believe many who are validating the formal nights, are actually wearing the dress of cruise elegant(Carnival's term). I have a full length gown and it would take up quite a bit of room in my bag. People also seem to confuse cocktail party dress with formal. Most of my dressy attire I would classify as elegant.

 

My BF doesn't own a suit and I am not so sure I will purchase one for him. Am I understanding though that if he wore a dress shirt and tie we wouldn't be able to dine in the dining rooms?

 

Hi Mom2tcdx2 - just some additional info on the matter at hand...

Everyday Etiquette ~ Entertaining

 

Attire Guide: Beach Casual to White Tie

 

OCCASION

MEN

WOMEN

White Tie

 

• Black tailcoat, matching trousers with a single stripe of satin or braid in the US; two stripes in Europe or the UK
  
• white piqué wing-collared shirt with stiff front
  
• white vest
  
• white bow tie
  
• white or gray gloves
  
• black patent shoes and black dress socks
  

 

• Formal (floor length) evening gown
  

Black Tie

 

• Black tuxedo jacket and matching trousers
  formal (piqué or pleated front) white shirt
  
• black bow tie (silk, shiny satin or twill)
  
• black cummerbund to match tie, or a vest
  
• dressy suspenders to ensure a good fit (optional)
  
• black patent shoes and black dress socks
  
• no gloves.
  
• In summer or on a cruise: white dinner jacket, black tuxedo trousers plus other black tie wardrobe.
  

 

• Formal (floor length) evening gown or short, dressy cocktail dress
  

Black Tie

Optional

 

• Either a tuxedo (see 'Black Tie' above) or
  
• dark suit, white shirt and conservative tie
  

 

• Formal (floor length) evening gown or
  
• short, dressy cocktail dress or
  
• dressy separates
  

Creative

Black Tie

 

• Tuxedo combined with trendy or whimsical items, such as a black shirt or a matching colored or patterned bow tie and cummerbund
  
• black shiny patent or dressy black leather shoes and black socks
  

 

• Formal (floor length) evening gown or
  
• short, dressy cocktail dress or
  dressy separates or
  
• any of the above accessorized with such items as a feather boa, colorful shawl or colorful jewelry
  

Semiformal

 

• Dark, business suit (usually worsted wool)
  
• matching vest (optional)
  
• white shirt
  
• conservative tie
  
• dressy leather shoes and dress (dark) socks
  

 

• Short afternoon or cocktail dress or
  
• long dressy skirt and top
  

Festive

Attire

 

• Seasonal sport coat or blazer in color of choice and slacks
  
• open-collar shirt or
  
• shirt and "festive" or holiday-themed tie
  

 

• Short cocktail dress or
  
• long dressy skirt and top or
  
• dressy pants outfit
  

Dressy

Casual

 

• Seasonal sport coat or blazer and slacks
  
• open-collar shirt
  

 

• Street length dress or
  
• skirt and dressy top or
  
• dressy pants outfit
  

Business

Casual

 

• Seasonal sport coat or blazer with slacks or khakis
  
• open-collar shirt
  

 

• Skirt, khakis or slacks
  
• open-collar shirt, knit shirt or sweater
  (no spaghetti straps or decolleté)
  

Sport

Casual

 

• Khakis or clean, pressed jeans
  
• plain tee shirt (no slogans), polo shirt or
  
• casual button-down shirt
  

 

• Khakis or clean, pressed jeans
  
• plain tee shirt (no slogans), polo shirt or
  
• casual button-down shirt
  

Beach

Casual

 

• Khakis or shorts (cargo or Bermuda)
  
• knit or polo shirt
  
• sport jacket (optional) or sweater
  

 

• Sundress, khakis or shorts (cargo or Bermuda)
  
• open-collar, knit, or polo shirt
  
• lightweight jacket or sweater
  

Holiday Casual

 

• Clothing is the same as for 'Business Casual' with some holiday colors or designs.
  

 

 

• Clothing is the same as for 'Business Casual' with some holiday colors or designs.
  

Copyright © 2005 Emily Post Institute

[Rutland Gate]

I have reviewed a bit of the comments, but I didn't read through them all. I would say though someone had a comment on how little room a formal dress would take up - most formal gowns that I have seen take up quite a bit of space. Slinkier dresses to me seem to fall under the elegant option of dress, not formal. I do believe many who are validating the formal nights, are actually wearing the dress of cruise elegant(Carnival's term). I have a full length gown and it would take up quite a bit of room in my bag. People also seem to confuse cocktail party dress with formal. Most of my dressy attire I would classify as elegant.

 

My BF doesn't own a suit and I am not so sure I will purchase one for him. Am I understanding though that if he wore a dress shirt and tie we wouldn't be able to dine in the dining rooms?

 

 

Stick with NCL.

[RevNeal]

My BF doesn't own a suit and I am not so sure I will purchase one for him. Am I understanding though that if he wore a dress shirt and tie we wouldn't be able to dine in the dining rooms?

 

He doesn't need a suite for what HAL has stipulated as being acceptable for wear on Formal Nights. To meet that standard for gentlemen, all your BF needs is a jacket added to the dress shirt and tie. A sports jacket is inexpensive and useful for many things, not just a cruise.

 

As for wether or not he would be able to dine in the ship's main dining room on formal night wearing a dress shirt and tie (and, I assume, slacks), the answer is "probably not." On Smart Casual Nights your BF will be fine, but on the 2 or so Formal nights per week there is a chance that he would be denied entrance without a jacket. It would appear that, recently, the MDR has been offering jackets to gentlemen who lack them, so I suppose that's a possibility for your BF, but I wouldn't count on it. Likewise, I wouldn't count on the MDR staff being lax on the question; yes, it sometimes happens that they let in gentlemen who who don't have jackets on, but not always.

 

Don't dispare, however. Very few nights on a cruise are classified as formal night; and, he is always welcome to eat in the Lido in casual attire. And, of course, there is no reason why you can't try to get into the MDR on formal night ... who knows, they might let you in.

[RevNeal]

If the "Formal Night" does not remain, does that mean you can not dress up? If it were important to me I'd still dress up.

 

Many people are uncomfortable feeling conspicuous ... and very often those who feel this was are the ones who want the dress code maintained precisely so they can keep dressing up.

[RevNeal]

I think maybe there is room for both. There are plenty of Dining options for both sides. What is not right is that the "Casual" folks are not allowed in the MDR on "Formal" night and so they have fewer dining options. How can we even this out? Maybe one night, the Lido dining could be all "Formal" so those who really like dressing up could continue to enjoy the experience and then only the "Casual" crowd could have the MDR that same night. Win-Win! :)

 

You don't want to "even this out."

Trust me, you don't.

 

Right now, HAL has VERY FEW Formal Nights but three times as many Smart Casual Nights. Why should we have to give up one of our precious few Formal Nights in the MDR to those who already get the MDR as a Casual environment on all the Casual nights??? To "even this out" you would have to GIVE US extra Formal Nights. On a 10 day cruise there are 3 Formal Nights and 7 Smart Casual Nights. How about y'all give us 2 of your Casual Nights???? That would make things EVEN. Then, and only then, would it be fair to talk about swapping out MDR and Lido. Until then, y'all are playing with a stacked deck.

 

Tell you what ... let's just drop the whole matter and meet in the Crows Nest on the Casual Night of your choice and I'll buy you a round of drinks and we'll offer up toasts to Queen Beatrix and all of HAL's lovely ships. How about that? I'm getting too excited about my next cruise to have any energy to "fight" about this or anything else. I've just found out that on my upcoming 22 day cruise aboard the Prinsendam I'll be enjoying 6 Formal Nights!!!! Wow! Of course, for those who like Casual Nights there will still be 16 of those, so never fear! :D

[world~citizen]

Hi Mom2tcdx2 - just some additional info on the matter at hand...

Everyday Etiquette ~ Entertaining

 

Attire Guide: Beach Casual to White Tie

 

OCCASION

MEN

WOMEN

White Tie

 

• Black tailcoat, matching trousers with a single stripe of satin or braid in the US; two stripes in Europe or the UK
  
• white piqué wing-collared shirt with stiff front
  
• white vest
  
• white bow tie
  
• white or gray gloves
  
• black patent shoes and black dress socks
  

 

• Formal (floor length) evening gown
  

Black Tie

 

• Black tuxedo jacket and matching trousers
  formal (piqué or pleated front) white shirt
  
• black bow tie (silk, shiny satin or twill)
  
• black cummerbund to match tie, or a vest
  
• dressy suspenders to ensure a good fit (optional)
  
• black patent shoes and black dress socks
  
• no gloves.
  
• In summer or on a cruise: white dinner jacket, black tuxedo trousers plus other black tie wardrobe.
  

 

• Formal (floor length) evening gown or short, dressy cocktail dress
  

Black Tie

Optional

 

• Either a tuxedo (see 'Black Tie' above) or
  
• dark suit, white shirt and conservative tie
  

 

• Formal (floor length) evening gown or
  
• short, dressy cocktail dress or
  
• dressy separates
  

Creative

Black Tie

 

• Tuxedo combined with trendy or whimsical items, such as a black shirt or a matching colored or patterned bow tie and cummerbund
  
• black shiny patent or dressy black leather shoes and black socks
  

 

• Formal (floor length) evening gown or
  
• short, dressy cocktail dress or
  dressy separates or
  
• any of the above accessorized with such items as a feather boa, colorful shawl or colorful jewelry
  

Semiformal

 

• Dark, business suit (usually worsted wool)
  
• matching vest (optional)
  
• white shirt
  
• conservative tie
  
• dressy leather shoes and dress (dark) socks
  

 

• Short afternoon or cocktail dress or
  
• long dressy skirt and top
  

Festive

Attire

 

• Seasonal sport coat or blazer in color of choice and slacks
  
• open-collar shirt or
  
• shirt and "festive" or holiday-themed tie
  

 

• Short cocktail dress or
  
• long dressy skirt and top or
  
• dressy pants outfit
  

Dressy

Casual

 

• Seasonal sport coat or blazer and slacks
  
• open-collar shirt
  

 

• Street length dress or
  
• skirt and dressy top or
  
• dressy pants outfit
  

Business

Casual

 

• Seasonal sport coat or blazer with slacks or khakis
  
• open-collar shirt
  

 

• Skirt, khakis or slacks
  
• open-collar shirt, knit shirt or sweater
  (no spaghetti straps or decolleté)
  

Sport

Casual

 

• Khakis or clean, pressed jeans
  
• plain tee shirt (no slogans), polo shirt or
  
• casual button-down shirt
  

 

• Khakis or clean, pressed jeans
  
• plain tee shirt (no slogans), polo shirt or
  
• casual button-down shirt
  

Beach

Casual

 

• Khakis or shorts (cargo or Bermuda)
  
• knit or polo shirt
  
• sport jacket (optional) or sweater
  

 

• Sundress, khakis or shorts (cargo or Bermuda)
  
• open-collar, knit, or polo shirt
  
• lightweight jacket or sweater
  

Holiday Casual

 

• Clothing is the same as for 'Business Casual' with some holiday colors or designs.
  

 

 

• Clothing is the same as for 'Business Casual' with some holiday colors or designs.
  

Copyright © 2005 Emily Post Institute

 

 

Keep in mind Ms. Post wrote (on everything almost) at the turn of the century - the previous one.

 

Smooth sailing...