Who Wants an End to HAL Formal Nights Entirely?

[RevNeal]

No, they can't. At least not if they have any sense of decorum, anyway.

 

You have just defined the issue and the problem! Thank you, dear Ruth!

 

At least for a woman you aren't increasing what you are bringing. You do still have to wear something at night, don't you? And even if you wear "smart casual", you aren't wearing what you would wear in the daytime, (at least I hope you aren't :rolleyes:), so it's no big deal to pack something dressy instead of something not dressy.

And diamonds aren't all that heavy. Pack a bunch of 'em.

 

One of the things I have learned is that some of the people who are protesting Formal Nights do, indeed, wear exactly the same thing that they've been wearing all day for shore excursions, etc. They don't bring different day time and evening clothes. Apparently, they wear the same thing every day/night until it sticks to the bulkhead.

[sail7seas]

no italian is ever "sloppy" and I normally dress Valentino.

I am not "imposing" anything, not even throwing overboard nervous persons.

 

No one says that elegantly casual or formal has to be Valentino Costly.

 

One can find appropriate garments in all price ranges. No need to break the bank if that is not within a person's budget. But I sure would love to see some of those stunning Valentino Originals....... sigh :)

 

 

 

No, they can't. At least not if they have any sense of decorum, anyway. It is just as incorrect to be overdressed as it is to be underdressed. The dress code for the evening sets a range of what is appropriate to wear. Going outside those parameters, in either direction, is not appropriate.

 

At least for a woman you aren't increasing what you are bringing. You do still have to wear something at night, don't you? And even if you wear "smart casual", you aren't wearing what you would wear in the daytime, (at least I hope you aren't :rolleyes:), so it's no big deal to pack something dressy instead of something not dressy.

And diamonds aren't all that heavy. Pack a bunch of 'em.

 

A man needs slacks and a shirt at night anyway, so adding a tie is nothing. The jacket is all the "increase" he has to pack. He can wear that, so no extra packing to do there, either.

Or, he can decrease what he takes by renting a tux.

 

Now do you understand?

 

 

 

Exactly........ said so well, as always, Ruth.

 

Welcome Home.

[Opinions]

No, they can't. At least not if they have any sense of decorum, anyway. It is just as incorrect to be overdressed as it is to be underdressed. The dress code for the evening sets a range of what is appropriate to wear. Going outside those parameters, in either direction, is not appropriate.

 

If one wears a jacket on the casual nights are they "overdressed"?...Jacket and tie?...

[Copper10-8]

If one wears a jacket on the casual nights are they "overdressed"?...Jacket and tie?...

 

Heck No:cool:

[WhansaMi]

 

At least for a woman you aren't increasing what you are bringing. You do still have to wear something at night, don't you? And even if you wear "smart casual", you aren't wearing what you would wear in the daytime, (at least I hope you aren't :rolleyes:),

 

Now do you understand?

 

I'm not being snarky here... I'm really not. I'm really asking:

 

WHY should a woman have to wear something different to dinner than they wore during the day? I mean, certainly.... if you have been out hiking around and building a sweat, or have been in a bathing suit all day, that makes sense. But, if I have spent the day in a blouse and slacks, reading, going to a trivia game, and watching the waves, why is it necessary for me to redress for dinner? Why does that make sense?

[rozndon]

Please cancel your HAL reservation and go with NCL.

 

Or with RCCL. On a brief cruise to Bermuda on RCCl a few weeks ago, we sat at a table on formal night - me in a gown, DH in a tux - with a couple who were dressed in a (him) tee shirt and pants and (her) shorts and top over a bathing suit. You would have thought at that they would have felt out of place, but instead, it was my husband and I who felt stupid. RCCL obviously doesn't enforce the formal night rules like HAL. But then the whole RCCL experience was totally different than any HAL cruise we had taken. Since we've only been on 2 cruises - both HAL, we thought that this was what cruising was like. It's not. At least not on every cruise line. Now I see that it's important to select a cruise line according to the kind of experience you're looking for.

 

By the way, this couple spent the entire dinner complaining about how they hated cruising.

[Gator83]

Even though I do dress up for Formal Nights I would be totally fine without them and would enjoy not having them.

[fayruz]

No one says that elegantly casual or formal has to be Valentino Costly.

 

One can find appropriate garments in all price ranges. No need to break the bank if that is not within a person's budget. But I sure would love to see some of those stunning Valentino Originals....... sigh :)

Exactly........ said so well, as always, Ruth.

 

Welcome Home.

 

I am lucky : I live close to one of the biggest fashion outlets in Italy.

No bank breaking was necessary : I prefer one really elegant dress to ten surely cheaper ones.

And even if diamonds are a girl's best friends, I don't think they can make the difference between an elegant and a non elegant person :)

[cruz chic]

I'm not being snarky here... I'm really not. I'm really asking:

 

WHY should a woman have to wear something different to dinner than they wore during the day? I mean, certainly.... if you have been out hiking around and building a sweat, or have been in a bathing suit all day, that makes sense. But, if I have spent the day in a blouse and slacks, reading, going to a trivia game, and watching the waves, why is it necessary for me to redress for dinner? Why does that make sense?

The only time I wouldn't change for dinner would probably be on embarkation day. I just like to put on something "fresh". I seem to run into a lot of people on the ship with body odor and to me that's not acceptable. Like the Rev said I think a lot of people wear their clothes until they stick to the bulkhead. Just wondering...was it you who thinks that wearing pajamas to a grocery store is fine?

[DiscoMom]

Actually, not too long after our Panama Canal 14-day cruise on the Massdam on 1/22/10, I received a poll from HAL asking just that question. I said that one formal night a week would be nice. I found 4 formal nights on this cruise to be a bit much.

[RevNeal]

If one wears a jacket on the casual nights are they "overdressed"?...Jacket and tie?...

 

A jacket on Smart Casual Nights? No, that does not make one overdressed.

Add a tie to that jacket? Probably not.

Make it a black suit with a white shirt and a dark, conservative tie and you've probably pushed past the limit.

 

But, when one who wears a Tuxedo or a white Dinner Jacket on Casual Night, they are definitely "overdressed."

[RevNeal]

WHY should a woman have to wear something different to dinner than they wore during the day? I mean, certainly.... if you have been out hiking around and building a sweat, or have been in a bathing suit all day, that makes sense. But, if I have spent the day in a blouse and slacks, reading, going to a trivia game, and watching the waves, why is it necessary for me to redress for dinner? Why does that make sense?

 

While I'm not Ruth, allow me to answer.

 

Firstly, the code for the evening is SMART CASUAL, not just everyday casual. Read the code stipulations for daytime wear as opposed to nighttime wear.

 

Secondly, you touched upon a serious reason why one should change before dinner: going out on a shore excursion and getting all hot and sweaty and stinky or laying out in the sun all day in a bathing suit and being slathered up with smelly suntan lotion are both good reasons to bathe and dress for the evening, don't you think?

 

Thirdly, even if one doesn't get all hot and sweaty or smelly and sticky during the day, being ashore means one has been around all sorts of sources for GI-tract illnesses (think "norwalk."), and so it would be smart to bathe/shower and change one's clothing so as to not spread around those germs that you may have picked up.

 

Fourthly, even if you haven't been off the ship during the day, you've probably been slouching around in shorts and a t-shirt. I frequently do. Neither qualifies for the Smart Casual evening code.

 

Fifthly, is the blouse and slacks you wore during the day truly "Smart Casual" ? Look at the definition of Smart Casual again and compare it with what is suggested for daytime wear.

[RuthC]

I'm not being snarky here... I'm really not. I'm really asking:

 

WHY should a woman have to wear something different to dinner than they wore during the day?

Greg addressed your question quite well, I think. I would have to emphasize his last point.

Look around you during the day. Do you see people dressed in "smart casual"? Maybe one or two, but for the most part they are dressed well below that standard. As well they should be! Daytime casual is appropriate for daytime activities, but does not normally rise to the level of "smart casual".

 

Pajamas to the grocery store??? :eek:

[buckirj1]

Maybe it's because I haven't been on a hot weather cruise in a number of years, but whatever do you all DO during the day and night that makes you so sweaty and stinky?

 

What I wear for dinner on Night 2 is usually what I wear during Day 3, unless I'm staying on the ship and sweats or shorts would be more in order. I can't imagine doing anything at night to stink up an outfit. A shower before dinner and a shower in the morning serves to keep most folks smelling inoffensive.

 

That said, even though I think formal nights are a silly anachronism that needs to die out, I'm not really against 'em so long as there're alternatives for people like me who aren't going to play dress-up.

[LadyCruisers]

Would love to see HAL make it "formal optional", so those that love dressing up would be welcome to continue to do so and those who do not wish to dress up could still be welcome in the MDR and speciality restaurants on those evenings designated formal optional, and the minimum required for all nights in the MDR and speciality restaurants be "smart casual". Perhaps a caveat could be added to the "smart casual" designation for formal optional nights to include "no jeans, tee shirts" or something along those lines to at least attempt to keep the "smart casual" to a higher standard. No matter what is posted on HAL's guidelines (or any other cruiseline's for that matter), there will always be those who totally disregard the suggested code, or try to push the envelope. There is no way to stop what people choose to do. HAL's enforcement of their own rules is another story. Seven out of ten times, the extreme rule breakers are going to be let into the dining room by HAL's own employees. It's been seen time and time again. I'm all for "formal optional" with strict compliance to a higher standard "smart casual" as the alternative those evenings.

[RuthC]

What I wear for dinner on Night 2 is usually what I wear during Day 3, ...

Another great argument for keeping formal nights. At least on those nights the people who can't manage to dress to the level of "smart casual" on smart casual nights, do kick it up a notch from daytime casual.

[Set Free]

I've not read the whole thread (read a good bit of it) and I haven't cruised yet so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

 

I'm looking forward to formal nights! I'm borrowing a blazer for my 9 year old son (we don't have much use for one so I don't want to buy one unless I couldn't borrow) and my 7 year old daughter was excited to get a new dress for the trip. I bought one new dress and I have another pretty one I recently got (both dresses cost me $60 total). I'm certainly not going to go to dinner any night in what I wore during the day unless I'm just sitting around doing nothing and that's not my plan. I have some cute summer skirts or nice dressy capris to wear with nice tops/dressier t-shirts for regular dinners then the two dresses for formal night. I'm excited to dress up and look pretty! Hubby and I have very little extra money (his parents are paying for our cruise) to go out to nice dinners so this will be a nice treat for us. If we were going to Bermuda by plane, we'd still plan to have at least two nice nights out anyway. Actually, thinking about it, we needed to dress nicely EVERY night when we stayed at the Pompano Beach 10 years ago so this will be easier! :)

[WhansaMi]

While I'm not Ruth, allow me to answer.

 

Firstly, the code for the evening is SMART CASUAL, not just everyday casual. Read the code stipulations for daytime wear as opposed to nighttime wear.

 

Secondly, you touched upon a serious reason why one should change before dinner: going out on a shore excursion and getting all hot and sweaty and stinky or laying out in the sun all day in a bathing suit and being slathered up with smelly suntan lotion are both good reasons to bathe and dress for the evening, don't you think?

 

Thirdly, even if one doesn't get all hot and sweaty or smelly and sticky during the day, being ashore means one has been around all sorts of sources for GI-tract illnesses (think "norwalk."), and so it would be smart to bathe/shower and change one's clothing so as to not spread around those germs that you may have picked up.

 

Fourthly, even if you haven't been off the ship during the day, you've probably been slouching around in shorts and a t-shirt. I frequently do. Neither qualifies for the Smart Casual evening code.

 

Fifthly, is the blouse and slacks you wore during the day truly "Smart Casual" ? Look at the definition of Smart Casual again and compare it with what is suggested for daytime wear.

 

 

 

Yes, in my case, what I wear during the day is perfectly acceptable under the "Smart Casual" guidelines. I don't own a pair of shorts. I don't own a tank top. During the day, I usually wear dresses, or, on occasion, slacks and a blouse.

 

I think I specifically said that I would change had I been on an excursion, where it is likely that I had been either walking around a lot, or otherwise built up a sweat. So, you'll get no argument from me here! I specifically limited my discussion to days where I have been on the ship, and doing sedentary things. Under those circumstances, I would bet $100 that if you saw me at dinner, and had not seen me during the day, you would not know that I didn't change for dinner.

 

Come to think of it, if I *had* been out on some excursions -- for instance, ones that you get on a bus, drive around the city for a while, and come back to the ship -- I would think it unlikely that you would need to change for dinner then, either. We have rarely done that (once I think), so I can't be sure, but, I could see where it would play out where no changing was needed.

 

My point is, while there are times when it makes sense to shower and change for dinner -- when you are sweaty and grungy -- but, I think a lot of this goes back to an old tradition about "changing for dinner", which has nothing to do with hygiene. If someone showered in the morning, and sat and read a book all day, there is no reason, in my opinion, for them to shower and to change again before dinner. It seems to me folks feel they need to follow through with some tradition, even when it doesn't make sense.

 

I'm reminded of my ex-MIL's disgust the first time she picked my ex and I up from the airport, and found us in jeans. In her day, people "dressed" to go on airplanes. Today, that tradition no longer holds. I think this is much the same way. And, I'm not one to do anything just because "it has always been done that way".

 

I plan to do Pilates on the ship. I will shower before I go (because I can't stand to start my day without a shower), shower again after my class (because, if I do it right, I'll have built up a sweat), and then, no, I won't shower or change clothes before dinner. That just seems excessive, to me.

[navybankerteacher]

Would love to see HAL make it "formal optional", so those that love dressing up would be welcome to continue to do so and those who do not wish to dress up could still be welcome in the MDR and speciality restaurants on those evenings designated formal optional, and the minimum required for all nights in the MDR and speciality restaurants be "smart casual". Perhaps a caveat could be added to the "smart casual" designation for formal optional nights to include "no jeans, tee shirts" or something along those lines to at least attempt to keep the "smart casual" to a higher standard. No matter what is posted on HAL's guidelines (or any other cruiseline's for that matter), there will always be those who totally disregard the suggested code, or try to push the envelope. There is no way to stop what people choose to do. HAL's enforcement of their own rules is another story. Seven out of ten times, the extreme rule breakers are going to be let into the dining room by HAL's own employees. It's been seen time and time again. I'm all for "formal optional" with strict compliance to a higher standard "smart casual" as the alternative those evenings.

 

Don't you understand that "formal optional" means NOT formal? And what makes you think that enforcement of "formal optional" would be more likely than the present half-hearted enforcement of formal?

 

This thread is about keeping or not keeping formal -- not about coming up with ways to pretend to be keeping formal.

[mahassiddasairy]

Would love to see HAL make it "formal optional", so those that love dressing up would be welcome to continue to do so and those who do not wish to dress up could still be welcome in the MDR and speciality restaurants on those evenings designated formal optional, and the minimum required for all nights in the MDR and speciality restaurants be "smart casual".

 

Would you feel comfortable in an evening gown, when all your tablemates had on slacks and a nice T-shirt? It's already black tie optional. Does it really have to be "cocktail dress" optional as well? Sure, technically I could go to Applebee's in an evening gown; but it's not appropriate, and would make me feel (and look) both silly and out-of-place.

[hulamoon]

We can go either way with formal nights. But if I am going to dress up, the food must match the effort!:D

[happyglobetrotter]

Maybe it's because I haven't been on a hot weather cruise in a number of years, but whatever do you all DO during the day and night that makes you so sweaty and stinky?

 

What I wear for dinner on Night 2 is usually what I wear during Day 3, unless I'm staying on the ship and sweats or shorts would be more in order. I can't imagine doing anything at night to stink up an outfit. A shower before dinner and a shower in the morning serves to keep most folks smelling inoffensive.

 

That said, even though I think formal nights are a silly anachronism that needs to die out, I'm not really against 'em so long as there're alternatives for people like me who aren't going to play dress-up.

 

You said you were going on Cunard in November and that you do not like to dress up. Well welcome to Cunard where mens' jackets are mandatory on every smart casual nights !!! You will find that people on Cunard dress up a lot. May be you should have explained to your TA your dislike of dressing up.

 

Louise

[Cruising Boomer]

We quit taking formal clothes two years ago - we almost always go 2 to 4 weeks in advance of the cruise departure to tour the country or region. Do not like dragging formal clothes around for this long - plus it is a little harder to pack light if your are adding formal clothes. Also, I wore a suit and tie to work for 30+ years - try to avoid it if I can! :D

 

We have no problem going to the Lido and the new informal Italian restaurant does not require formal wear on formal nights. We like the Lido because we can make a large salad from the salad bar and have soup if that is all we want. Only complaint from our last cruise was that they have removed the trays - makes it a little more difficult in the Lido - but it still works.

 

But back to the basic question...since some folks like the formal night, it should be kept - we will go to the Lido or the Italian restaurant on formal nights - not a problem for us - to each his own.

[traveler111]

Must admit that I have not read this entire thread but I prefer that formal night be maintained. It is rare that I have an occasion to "dress up" so I appreciate formal night. It is part of the cruise "experience" as far as I am concerned; formal night shold be observed. :)

[RevNeal]

Another great argument for keeping formal nights. At least on those nights the people who can't manage to dress to the level of "smart casual" on smart casual nights, do kick it up a notch from daytime casual.

 

Which reveals the true issue: such really don't want to "kick it up a notch" from daytime casual.