Pre-Paid, and auto tips. I'll just say it

[JEDIKNIGHT]

Since there aren't any threads on tipping I thought I'd be original and write about this topic ;)

 

Anyway, I read that some people aren't "used to" the concept of tipping.

 

Well, sorry....but if you are in a culture, geography, or entity where tipping is the norm, get used to it. Deal with it. I am always told that as an American, I should be oooooh so careful to blend in, to respect other people's customs...and I agree with that 100%...nevermind that I live in a nation where a segment of the population doesn't bother to speak the native language. But all that accounted for, I agree...when I'm abroad, I should follow the rules.

 

If someone isn't "used to" tipping, it's best they take a cruise based in their home country and write glowing reviews about it.

 

And finally......

 

I'm GLAD that auto-tipping, and PRE-PAID tipping in some cases is now the norm, as long as there's a mechanism to dispute it in case of poor service.

 

If people are doing well enough in life to where they can take a cruise, AND they don't think enough to TIP the hard-working people who are waiting their tables, or cleaning their cabins .....I'm pleased there's a method to police those passengers.

 

And yeah, I'll say it....

 

The fact that it annoys non-tippers....is HILARIOUS to me.

 

Questions, comments, insults welcome.

[jackdiamond]

reversible

[dmwnc1959]

I remember when 'tipping was a reward for a job well done, not a right of passage just for showing up for work.

 

I also remember when automatic tips were first implemented in the industry. There was a bit of an outcry over concerns that if wait staff knew in advance that the money was in the bag would service suffer, even just a little bit.

 

I wonder if indifference and attitude of the waitstaff are effected, if service is just a step below what it could be, or should be, knowing most people won't reverse or reduce the tip amounts?

 

I admire those who throw money around like it grows on trees, tip above and beyond the call of duty because the waitstaff simply did their job, or that because they are from a different culture feel the need to supplement their cruise line income with an abundance of generosity, yet might be the same kind of people that wouldn't give a dollar to a homeless person in their own hometown.

 

I also wonder about those who automatically stick up and defend a generic tipping system never to take into account each individuals experience, expectations, and service is going to be different than a one-size fits all attitude.

[Cruise Junky]

I have no problem pre-paying tips but celebrity needs to do a better job of charging Canadians. I refuse to pay their inflated exchange rate - so if pre-paying is mandatory for select dining, then charge me in US$ and let my bank deal with it. Pre-paid tipping should not be a money making venture for the cruise line.

[sandancer]

I am interested to know how you know who tips and who does not. On RCCL you get vouchers and envelopes to hand to staff if you pre-pay, on Celebrity they no longer do this. So unless you are giving an extra tip, how do you know? I have yet to meet anyone who admits to stiffing the staff. We always dine on the Select Dining arrangement so pre-pay anyway. Cruise Junky, our tips in the UK are added to the final account and paid in sterling at the rate of exchange which applied when the booking was made so like yourselves we can win or lose in the currency game.

[Andym]

I am interested to know how you know who tips and who does not. On RCCL you get vouchers and envelopes to hand to staff if you pre-pay, on Celebrity they no longer do this. So unless you are giving an extra tip, how do you know?

The staff get a printout listing everyone who has prepaid , so they know but you don't.

[Project_gal]

I am unwilling to take the bait thrown out by the original poster but do need to clarify the assumption made about people who say that they come from a different culture to those who hail from North America. Most are not wanting to avoid tipping rather they need clear guidelines as to what tipping is appropriate.

 

My husband and I always intend to "fit in" with the cultural norm wherever we are but it is not easy to understand what is the norm. Unfortunately [and here I will make a sweeping generalisation] those who live in the USA tend to believe that the whole world understand everything about their culture probably because we understand a great deal due to TV and films. However, this is not the case. I actually feel more "foreign" in the US than in any other country I have visited and that includes India and China.

 

On our first trip to the US, we visited 6 cities across the country in 14 days. It was clear that the way eggs and steaks were cooked as we crossed the country differred - eggs "over easy" or steaks "medium" did not mean the same in New York and California. We had to asked for detailed descriptions to get our food cooked as we wished. In the same way, the norm for the amount tipped was different on the east and west coast, and in the middle. As a consequence, we have come to understand that we "over tip" so as to avoid being thought of as bad tippers.

 

Even so, I was astounded speaking to an American friend a couple of years ago to find that we did not realise that she expected to tip in two particular situations where it never occurred to us a tip was required. The first was when you drop off bags by the curb at an airport for an internal flight. We did not know that the people who check your bags there were any different to the people at the airline check-in desk inside the airport who, apparently, we were correct not to tip. ["Tipping" people at airline check-in desks in the UK would be seen as a "bribe" and unacceptable.] The other situation was the car park attendant in an underground car park of an office she visited regularily who my friend tipped US$10 every time she parked.

 

I was left wondering, and still not understanding, exactly who would expect a tip from us and who would not. Many groups of people in the UK would be insulted if you offered them a tip. Perhaps Americans have less sensibilities. In the UK, we have adopted many American customs and tipping is becoming more and more the norm but there are still many countries where tipping any thing but a few low value coins is not the norm. In is not unusual, in some of these countries, for our tips to have been refused where we have seen tipping by Americans to be accepted, if not encouraged.

 

Sue

[Can'tstopcruising]

I am interested to know how you know who tips and who does not. On RCCL you get vouchers and envelopes to hand to staff if you pre-pay, on Celebrity they no longer do this. So unless you are giving an extra tip, how do you know? I have yet to meet anyone who admits to stiffing the staff. We always dine on the Select Dining arrangement so pre-pay anyway. Cruise Junky, our tips in the UK are added to the final account and paid in sterling at the rate of exchange which applied when the booking was made so like yourselves we can win or lose in the currency game.

 

I don't know about your exchange rate, but I recently booked in Canadian funds and the pre-paid gratuities were 25%. Our exchange rate today is 4% and was less that day. I hope your discrepancy isn't as great.

[teajak]

We totally agree with the OP and would like to add one point. In our many cruises we have very seldom had a waiter, assistant waiter, or room steward that only did just their job, the majority have gone above and beyond what is required. In those few instances we don't give extra. We are not wealthy people in any sense but really appreciate these hard working people that make us feel so pampered for a week or two.This is particularly true on Celebrity.JMHO

[JEDIKNIGHT]

Would anyone like to deny that there are a multitude of posts complaining about pre-tipping, and/or auto-tipping?

 

Would anyone like to deny that there aren't multiple posts about "where I come from we don't tip"?

 

Has nothing to do with throwing money around.

 

The constnt tip-complainers are like drivers whining about red lights and stop signs.

 

These are the rules of the road, deal with it.

[sandancer]

Project Gal has a good point. When we first travelled to the US we had no idea that is was normal practice to leave a tip every day for the room attendant in hotels. That is not usual in the UK. However, we recently stayed at the Sheraton in Toronto when a large conference was going on, people from all over but mostly North Americans. Our room attendant told us that she had 18 rooms and we were the only guests who left her a tip. So you see, sometimes it is not just the Brits who don't tip (!!!). As far as cruising is concerned just about all of the cruise lines suggest pre-paid tips these days when you book in the UK. This is not and has never been a problem for us. I know lots of people say you are paying for service in advance which may not be up to standard but we have never been on a cruise (and we've been on many) where the service was so bad that we would cancel the gratuities.

[Cruise Junky]

Cruise Junky, our tips in the UK are added to the final account and paid in sterling at the rate of exchange which applied when the booking was made so like yourselves we can win or lose in the currency game.

 

that's how it works if you get to pay your tips at the end like everyone else, but if you have to pre-tip for Select Dining, you get hit with the added exchange rate.

[woodofpine]

I tip... I prefer auto-tip...

 

But it isn't a TIP. It is crew compensation (for all practical purposes ALL of it). It absolutely is base line compensation for showing up for work. And they do a good to great job generally speaking. It is almost a misnomer to call it a tip or 'gratuity' in the present system... But for lack of a better word, the lines and passengers call it that.

 

Keeping most crew compensation 'off the books' as 'revenue' and 'expense' allows the line to take advantage of a lot of accounting methods that directly contributes to the low cruise fares passengers enjoy. So - in the greater scheme of things, hotel crew effectively subsidize low pax fares... until they're pax compensated; and even then, your large line fares are lower in part due to this accounting. Don't beleive it? Find any line whose crew are fully payrolled and you'll find the fares substantially higher than fare+tip...

[dmwnc1959]

Would anyone like to deny that there are a multitude of posts complaining about pre-tipping, and/or auto-tipping?

 

Would anyone like to deny that there aren't multiple posts about "where I come from we don't tip"?

 

Has nothing to do with throwing money around.

 

The constnt tip-complainers are like drivers whining about red lights and stop signs.

 

These are the rules of the road, deal with it.

 

These are not RULES (like 'No Smoking on the Balcony' is a RULE), these are GUIDELINES based on SUGGESTED tipping amounts. Even on the Celebrity website phrases like 'for your convenience' and 'recommended amounts' are used. And when did tipping become a mandatory passenger obligation based on services not yet rendered? If I choose to remove the auto-tips at the beginning of the cruise, that is my right, and I expect no less, and no more better service than those who have pre-paid for their convenience, whatever that means.

 

I am not sure what 'above and beyond what is required' means. The room stewards job is to thoroughly clean the room top to bottom, the wait staff take my orders and serve my food in a timely and respectful manner. That is their job. If I need more, that is their job to attend to my requests. Unless I am asking for something completely out of the norm, then what is 'above and beyond, mean? Unless you have special needs that are to be met, or require excessive special attention to attend to your needs, or make excessive requests of the wait staff and room stewards, they otherwise are just doing their job.

 

...it isn't a TIP. It is crew compensation (for all practical purposes ALL of it). It absolutely is base line compensation for showing up for work.

 

EXACTLY.

[woodofpine]

I appreciate the confusion 'American' customs cause Brits and many other nationals... We're weird... Hotel chamber people aren't typically tipped, this has 'creeped' into US culture fairly recently (last decade or so) and as sandance points out from her Sheraton experience - it isn't widely adopted. It is just a distasteful labor economic result of less than wonderful American labor relations and culture. When I was a kid restuarant tips were considered 'normal' at 10% then it crept up to 12, then 15, now the trade pushes 18%. Frankly, I prefer the European societal norm in this area... but - that has nothing to do with people making a living at sea...

 

At sea, ships have always had a unique system of crew compensation (call it 'tips'; but it barely fits the term) and as the cruise industry has exploded in growth it has become necessary to standardize it and integrate it - and still retain the accounting benefits... The ships aren't American built, flagged, or crewed. Some of the companies are based here, but most didn't originate here historically. Screwy American tip culture shouldn't be confused with straight forward passenger-crew ship compensation.

[jagoffee]

These are not RULES (like 'No Smoking on the Balcony' is a RULE), these are GUIDELINES based on SUGGESTED tipping amounts. Even on the Celebrity website phrases like 'for your convenience' and 'recommended amounts' are used. And when did tipping become a mandatory passenger obligation based on services not yet rendered? If I choose to remove the auto-tips at the beginning of the cruise, that is my right, and I expect no less, and no more better service than those who have pre-paid for their convenience, whatever that means.

 

I am not sure what 'above and beyond what is required' means. The room stewards job is to thoroughly clean the room top to bottom, the wait staff take my orders and serve my food in a timely and respectful manner. That is their job. If I need more, that is their job to attend to my requests. Unless I am asking for something completely out of the norm, then what is 'above and beyond, mean? Unless you have special needs that are to be met, or require excessive special attention to attend to your needs, or make excessive requests of the wait staff and room stewards, they otherwise are just doing their job.

 

 

 

EXACTLY.

 

Thank you for providing a good example of why cruise lines must at some point just call it a service charge and make it mandatory for everyone. I find non reversable service charges in many places in the world, so it would not be that unusual.

 

Personally I find this kind of attitude towards service staff to be sad.

[jackdiamond]

Would anyone like to deny that there are a multitude of posts complaining about pre-tipping, and/or auto-tipping?

 

Would anyone like to deny that there aren't multiple posts about "where I come from we don't tip"?

 

Has nothing to do with throwing money around.

 

The constnt tip-complainers are like drivers whining about red lights and stop signs.

 

These are the rules of the road, deal with it.

You are correct. Most folks who complain about the cruise tipping procedures are, in reality, stiffers.

[lovesublime]

Project Gal has a good point. When we first travelled to the US we had no idea that is was normal practice to leave a tip every day for the room attendant in hotels. That is not usual in the UK. However, we recently stayed at the Sheraton in Toronto when a large conference was going on, people from all over but mostly North Americans. Our room attendant told us that she had 18 rooms and we were the only guests who left her a tip. So you see, sometimes it is not just the Brits who don't tip (!!!). As far as cruising is concerned just about all of the cruise lines suggest pre-paid tips these days when you book in the UK. This is not and has never been a problem for us. I know lots of people say you are paying for service in advance which may not be up to standard but we have never been on a cruise (and we've been on many) where the service was so bad that we would cancel the gratuities.

 

 

 

I'm American and have never tipped a hotel maid (housekeeper) and nor do I know anyone who ever has. In fact, I cannot remember the last time I've even seen the housekeeper at any hotel we've stayed with. They clean the room, leave towels and that's it. They are paid a wage and do not depend on tips as part of their income. There will always be those who say they tip the housekeeping staff at hotels, but it's far from the norm in North America and don't let anyone convince you of otherwise. I also find it strange that you call the cleaning staff "room attendants". They are not attendants in the same sense as cruise line stewards. For the most part, if you have any needs at a hotel, you would call the front desk-not the maid. Of course there are other hotel employess who you may wish to tip....bell boys, room service delivery, concierge...etc if you utilize those services. Otherwise, there is no need to tip hotel employees.

[mapsmith]

I tip... I prefer auto-tip...

 

But it isn't a TIP. It is crew compensation (for all practical purposes ALL of it). It absolutely is base line compensation for showing up for work. And they do a good to great job generally speaking. It is almost a misnomer to call it a tip or 'gratuity' in the present system... But for lack of a better word, the lines and passengers call it that.

 

...

 

 

How about they rename it from "Gratuities" to "Service Charge". Since in many parts of the world, "Service Charges" are added to the final Bill, maybe the passengers from the other parts of the world (and North Americans) might not be as upset about "Mandatory Gratuities"

[dmwnc1959]

Thank you for providing a good example of why cruise lines must at some point just call it a service charge and make it mandatory for everyone. I find non reversable service charges in many places in the world, so it would not be that unusual.

 

Personally I find this kind of attitude towards service staff to be sad.

 

At no point did I say that I don't tip, and never have I not tipped. The cruise lines add it as a convenience for those who otherwise would not tip, tip less, and/or forget to tip. I wonder how many people stay for a week at a Las Vegas hotel or at a Walt Disney World resort, stay in the same room and eat at the hotel restaurants, and don't tip their hotel maids and waitstaff?

 

And at no time ever in any of my 3+ dozen cruises have I ever treated the staff any less than equals. I still tip, and even help out by cleaning and straightening my room and tidy up my bed before leaving for the day, making it easier for them to maintain my room. Did I mention that I still tip? I just do not feel the need to tip them in advance. I remember when giving the tip at the end of the cruise was a one-on-one expression of gratitude, my way of personally thanking them for a job well done. If we bond with our stewards and waitstaff the way some of us do for a week, why not show that gratitude in person, and not just as a name on a list of those that already pre-tipped and auto-tipped in advance?

[brfan]

At no point did I say that I don't tip, and never have I not tipped. The cruise lines add it as a convenience for those who otherwise would not tip, tip less, and/or forget to tip. I wonder how many people stay for a week at a Las Vegas hotel or at a Walt Disney World resort, stay in the same room and eat at the hotel restaurants, and don't tip their hotel maids and waitstaff?

 

And at no time ever in any of my 3+ dozen cruises have I ever treated the staff any less than equals. I still tip, and even help out by cleaning and straightening my room and tidy up my bed before leaving for the day, making it easier for them to maintain my room. Did I mention that I still tip? I just do not feel the need to tip them in advance. I remember when giving the tip at the end of the cruise was a one-on-one expression of gratitude, my way of personally thanking them for a job well done. If we bond with our stewards and waitstaff the way some of us do for a week, why not show that gratitude in person, and not just as a name on a list of those that already pre-tipped and auto-tipped in advance?

 

Except you are not tipping in advance if you have auto-tip or pre-tip. The crew does not receive the tip until after you have left the ship. Auto-tips themselves aren't charged to your credit card until the last day. The cruise line puts a hold on your account each day for the tip amount, but does not actually put the charge through until the last day.

 

Personally it would be nice if all the cruise lines just call it what it really is, a service charge and only allow removal in extreme cases of poor service.

[dmwnc1959]

I'm American and have never tipped a hotel maid (housekeeper) and nor do I know anyone who ever has. In fact, I cannot remember the last time I've even seen the housekeeper at any hotel we've stayed with. They clean the room, leave towels and that's it. They are paid a wage and do not depend on tips as part of their income.

 

Wow. Are you way off base in left field. I have worked as a Front desk clerk for years in everything from Ramada's to Hiltons. The staff that work cleaning rooms are often minority, low income, minimum wage employees that work very, very hard cleaning rooms, often 20 at a time, and do appreciate the tips that are almost never left behind. I have seen hotel rooms left looking like mini-disaster areas with piles of wasted food and pizza boxes, fast food wrappers and cups strwen everywhere, garbage, piles of beer cans, dirty underwear and 'protection' left on the sinks, dirty towels all over the floor, showers and sinks covered in toothpaste, shaving cream, and hair products, and just about anything else you can imagine left in the garbage cans and under the beds. We treat the room stewards on ships better for doing the exact same job the maid does at the hotel you just checked out of. And the largest number of hotel guests only stay for 1-night, maybe 2, and of course never leave a tip. They assume the room will be clean upon their arrival, and dont care what happens after they leave for the next guest to worry about.

[Aries 65]

I'm an American (not from Texas) and I've always tipped hotel maids and chamber staff. Usually leave a $1 or $2 per day at the end of the stay (Even when in Texas) . In smaller hotels and motels I've even seen envelopes for that purpose.

 

We prefer the automatic service charge and generally give extra for outstanding service.

[Dunmore2]

On the first or second day of our cruise, we ask at the front desk for the automatic tips to be left off our "bill". Then on the second last day, the tip envelopes magically appear. We tip beyond what is suggested, but we like to give it in "person". Many times we will include a personal note of thanks as well. More face to face appreciation/interaction is important to us. Auto tips do not allow us to show our gratitude the way we prefer.

[Freecall]

Since there aren't any threads on tipping I thought I'd be original and write about this topic.

 

 

Yeah, let's talk about tipping for a change! (very good ha, ha)

 

I still think a far more interesting topic would be......'I never pay my tips because........<INSERT REASON>...............'

 

Come on, let's hear from some serious stiffers!

 

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