My FORMAL NIGHT Experience...(AND RANT)

[bradpole]

...it is 2010 and not 1920. If people want to dress up, then let them. But don't turn away people who are cleanly and neatly dressed.

 

I know I am in the minority here, but I couldn't agree more! If you love formal night, great, dress up and enjoy! When I am in my tux seeing someone dressed less formal (even just a dress shirt and slacks...ghasp!) has no impact on how I am enjoying my dinner. Who knows or cares why they didn't dress to the nines!

 

Even here at home the city's 'premier' dining establishment, Le Bec Fin Philadelphia, no longer requires jackets and ties for men, times have simply changed. For better, or worse, we are a more casual society.

 

I am constantly amazed at how frequently this subject comes up on the HAL boards. Are formal nights the only thing that you cruise HAL for? Is there nothing else onboard that sets HAL apart from the competition besides the dress code? What do you do the other nights of your cruise? Do you hide in the cabin and order room service because there are no tuxes in the MDR that night?

 

You may not believe this but I truly loved formal nights, until I expereinced how wonderful, and easy, "country club casual" was on Oceania. For those who wanted to dress more formal they could, and did. For those who didn't want to wear jackets and ties they didn't have to....and yet there were no jeans, or sloppy outfits. Everyone still looked so very nice, and the meal was still very elegant! The fashion police were stopped at the gangway and denied boarding!

[DrTee]

To me formal night is basically prom night for grownups. I rarely participate (I'll eat in the Lido), but I agree that rules are to be followed. It's HAL's "house," and we should abide by their wishes.

 

Once in a London restaurant that required jackets for men, I observed a man had put his jacket on the back of his chair, and he was discreetly told to put it back on. Again, their house, their rules.

[startwin]

I'm not going to comment one way or the other on what happened, but I will report this....

 

We were on the Volendam the following week (Sept 15 - 22) and found that the dress code was not enforced at all. In fact on the second formal night a gentleman at the next table was wearing a casual shirt with fishing-type vest over top.

 

Personally, I don't care what anyone wears, just thought you might be interested. I would imagine it was the same maitre'd.

[serendipity1499]

in the enforcement of the dress code is annoying and unfair. Two weeks ago on the Ryndam we followed a man wearing jeans into the dining room on formal night. He was not turned away. Either forget the rules, or insist that everyone abide by them.

 

While I'm sorry you had a bad experience, I'm happy to hear that HAL is enforcing the published dress code.

 

Your post is confusing...:confused: How can you be happy to hear that HAL is enforcing the "Published Dress Code" when they are not enforcing the published dress code?

The Published dress code says: "On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo.

What this Poster & others are saying, is that they were seating people on formal nights with jackets sans ties or ties sans jackets..Does that really mean to you that they are enforcing the "published dress code"?

 

HAL really isn't enforcing the dress code consistently when the published code says jacket and tie, yet in OP's case men with jacket/no tie or tie/no jacket were being allowed into the MDR on formal nights. Let's face it, the code as published is never again going to enforced on any ship, so what's the point.

 

My thoughts exactly! The dress code says jacket & tie but it seems it is open to interpretation of the Matre d' on duty...That is the reason my DH no longer wants to wear his Tux..

IMO, they should either enforce it uniformly on every ship or change it..The ambiguity is sheer nonsense!

 

Cheers....:)Betty

[annierie]

Your post is confusing...:confused: How can you be happy to hear that HAL is enforcing the "Published Dress Code" when they are not enforcing the published dress code?

The Published dress code says: "On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo.

What this Poster & others, including me, are saying is that they were seating people on formal nights with jackets sans ties or ties sans jackets..Does that really mean to you that they are enforcing the "published dress code"?

 

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly! The dress code says jacket & tie but it seems it is open to interpretation of the Matre d' on duty...

IMO, they should either enforce it uniformly on every ship or change it..The ambiguity is sheer nonsense!

 

Cheers....:)Betty

 

 

Not to mention how many women get seated not wearing a suit, cocktail dress or gown.

 

If usually means always for men, it should be the same for women. No exceptions. no interpretations. How many women here follow the published code, or how many of you wear evening slacks and tops?

 

 

And for all the men here complaining, do your wives or SOs always wear one of the three allowable choices? ;)

[iancal]

What someone else wears on formal night has never really impacted our cruise enjoyment. We are more interested in good conversation than spending two seconds judging our tablemates on how they are dressed.

 

Vacations are too short for this, as is life too short for us to be concerned about what others wear.

[navybankerteacher]

You will forgive me...I very much understand the formal vs not formal and I dress accordingly when on a HAL ship, but nobody has addressed the part where he was given an ill fitting/food stained jacket to bring him into compliance? Is an ill fitting/food stained article of clothing really better than what he was already wearing? So, it doesn't matter the condition of the tux as long as it is a tux?

 

If he did not like the alternative presented he could have dined elsewhere. His election to ignore the dress code was the trigger event - whatever other passengers did does not change that fact.

[bradpole]

what someone else wears on formal night has never really impacted our cruise enjoyment. We are more interested in good conversation than spending two seconds judging our tablemates on how they are dressed.

 

Vacations are too short for this, as is life too short for us to be concerned about what others wear.

 

exactly!!

[jiminyC_fan]

what someone else wears on formal night has never really impacted our cruise enjoyment. We are more interested in good conversation than spending two seconds judging our tablemates on how they are dressed.

 

Vacations are too short for this, as is life too short for us to be concerned about what others wear.

 

beautiful!

[krewzin]

The next week, we sailed on RCCL Rhapsody of the Seas, where the same outfit was welcomed by my dinner comapnions and the dining steward, who said, "We would not turn you away, sir. You are our GUEST."

 

 

 

Really?

 

So your dining steward simply offered this up, based on how you were dressed ("I noticed that you were somewhat underdressed here on formal night sir....and I just wanted to let you know, that if you have worn this outfit on another ship which found this unacceptable, and possibly been forced to wear an ill-fitting jacket with gravy stains on the sleeve....that's simply not going to happen here; we would not turn you away sir. You are our GUEST.")?

 

Or did you actually solicit this comment, and ask when arriving at your table: "Pssst. Good evening Ignacio.... please take a look at my formal-night attire. I got turned away on a HAL ship last week because of wearing this outfit; they made me wear an ill-fitting jacket and the sleeves were all schpootsed up. Will this outfit be welcomed by both you, and my dinner companions here on RCCL?"

 

:p

[Vince1980]

Sorry to slightly deviate from the discussion, but I didn't feel it was useful opening a separate thread for this:

On NON-formal nights are (nice) jeans allowed/common?

 

Thanks,

Vincent

[sail7seas]

Vince,

On smart casual nights, jeans are permitted but not common.

[room010]

As many of you have said, it's that word "usually" in the dress code that seems to be causing the problem here. That, and HAL's inconsistancy in enforcing their own policy. It is galling to see people who are clearly in breach of the code being allowed into the MDR on formal nights, especially when others have gone to the trouble of complying. I suspect that in many instances the Maitre D simply doesn't want a confrontation. They are pretty good a "reading" people and how they are likely to react.

 

If the policy was worded more emphatically, with no room for individual interpretation then everyone would be clear on what's required. We may not necessarily agree with what's required but that's a different discussion.

[IRL_Joanie]

I was reading the thread, and chuckling to myself over the remarks (since this is one of those HOT topic subjects), when I read Serendipity1499 (Betty's) Quote from the HAL site....

 

The Published dress code says: "On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo.

 

Now for those that are English Teachers, English majors and/or Grammer police, let's pick this sentence apart.

 

As I see the entire sentence it states clearly: "On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown

 

OK, so that tells me that LADIES USUALLY Wear these items.

 

Then it continues on to state, in what I believe is a run on sentence: and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo.

 

It DOES NOT state that gentlemen USUALLY wear, it plainly states they DO wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo.

I think this is the crux of the matter. HAL needs to rewrite the sentence and be more definitive of that one sentence.

 

I believe the sentence should read:

 

"On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown. Gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo."

 

Joanie

[IRL_Joanie]

Not to mention how many women get seated not wearing a suit, cocktail dress or gown.

 

If usually means always for men, it should be the same for women. No exceptions. no interpretations. How many women here follow the published code, or how many of you wear evening slacks and tops?

 

 

And for all the men here complaining, do your wives or SOs always wear one of the three allowable choices? ;)

 

I always dress according to HAL's policy. A cruise on Holland America Line is a wonderful event. It is one of the very very very few times that I dress up to dine, and to dress comfortably, yet smarter than I normally dress at home.

 

I read the Dress Code Policy before ever setting foot on my first HAL cruise and knew what to expect.

 

My husband and I dine out formally 3-4 times a year (not counting on our cruises) and I will dress to the nines in formal wear. Now I might not be in a ball gown, but I am dressed to kill:)

 

Hubby loves to dress formally. So much so that in the past 2 years he has bought a tux and 2 jackets to go with them, dress white long, dress white short (also called Mess White, I believe) and several different cumberbunds.

 

He gets more enthusiastic than even I do, ad I love to dress up:D

 

Joanie

[luxurysailer]

Do you suppose that those who are singled out for failure to adhere to the formal dress code while others are allowed to skate may have asked for it by having previously irritated the maitre d'?

 

I absolutely love it when a service employee who is rudely treated by someone manages to turn the tables on them.

[vbmom87]

Do you suppose that those who are singled out for failure to adhere to the formal dress code while others are allowed to skate may have asked for it by having previously irritated the maitre d'?

 

I absolutely love it when a service employee who is rudely treated by someone manages to turn the tables on them.

 

In our case I can assure you that was not the case. My BIL checked in with us at dinner each night and was always pleasant at check-in as well as during dinner with the wait staff. He is one of the most soft-spoken and easy going gentlemen I know.

[photomikey]

Continue the discussion...isn't this fun?

I love people who can have a sense of humor about dozens of grown adults debating the merits of their formal wear. You sir, are welcome on this board anytime.

 

For the record, I'd have put the jacket on, walked across the dining room, then taken it off and hung it across the back of the chair while I dined.

[navybankerteacher]

I love people who can have a sense of humor about dozens of grown adults debating the merits of their formal wear. You sir, are welcome on this board anytime.

 

For the record, I'd have put the jacket on, walked across the dining room, then taken it off and hung it across the back of the chair while I dined.

 

And doesn't that make you feel like a real Man?

[kakalina]

In attempting to please all of the people all of the time HAL is ending up pleasing very few on this issue. They need to make a consistent policy and enforce. Personally I don't care which way they go more or less formal. I just want them to make a decision and stick to it.

[Randyk47]

In attempting to please all of the people all of the time HAL is ending up pleasing very few on this issue. They need to make a consistent policy and enforce. Personally I don't care which way they go more or less formal. I just want them to make a decision and stick to it.

 

Totally agree.

[cruisinjudy]

 

For the record, I'd have put the jacket on, walked across the dining room, then taken it off and hung it across the back of the chair while I dined.

 

That is exactly what one of our tablemates did on an Alaska cruise one year. They told us the first night that they would not be attending formal nights as they did not bring formal clothing, but then they decided they didn't want to leave us alone at the table so they made the attempt to enter. As it happens the other couple were also panning on doing Pinnacle that night I believe, but they showed up too so we wouldn't be alone at the table.

 

At any rate the loaned jacket hanging on the back of the chair made everyone happy.

[Juanita462]

On one of our cruises a man came to the dining room on formal night in cotton shirt, shorts and baseball cap - the man at the door refused to let him in and said that his attire was not appropriate - he left and later came back wearing a cotton shirt, sweat pants and a baseball cap. He was allowed in.

 

We enjoy dressing up for formal nights but understand that not everyone wants to do this - still, ultra casual shouldn't be allowed and yes, it should be consistent on all the ships.

[floralscent]

On the Eurodam last year in December, there was a gentleman in front of us in line to enter the MDR on formal night wearing Wrangler Jeans and a plaid shirt. This man was allowed entry into the dinning room while my husband and I and those around us were dressed in tuxes, dark suits and ties and formal dresses/gowns. Although I didn't let this ruin my dinner, it did and still bothers me that HAL allowed this to happen.

 

For those that don't like the formal night dress code...dine elsewhere as you know the rules when you signed up for the vacation. Although the rules say "usually", those passengers that don't dress formally on formal nights know what they are doing and simply don't care. I think they are just trying to see what they can get away with as they think the rules don't apply to them. It is unfortunate that we are in a me society and most think the rules don't apply to them. Just my opinion-

[Hlitner]

My My! We salute HA for finally enforcing the dress codes. Yep, it is 2010 and we are not sure what this has to do with this has to do with showing respect for other cruisers by wearing inappropriate clothes. The OP is right that some folks do not like to dress-up, but that is why there is always an alternative dining venue. We recently took a 6 day crossing on the Queen Mary where they had 3 formal nights, 2 semi-formal (jackets and tie required) and only one night where no tie was required. It was fun to see everyone dressed properly....even if it is 2010! As to the OP, there are other cruise lines where you never have formal nights (such as Azamara) so you might want to consider finding a line appropriate to your personal taste.

 

Hank