My FORMAL NIGHT Experience...(AND RANT)

[teacherman]

We sailed September 8-15 on Holland Volendam round trip from Vancouver to Alaska. I will write a review of the cruise on the Review Board, but wanted to put this here on the Holland Board. We had sailed Holland 4 years ago in the Baltic and enjoyed it. This cruise was also enjoyable....BUT as we were traveling on two ships, trains, airplanes, rental cars, and packing for both Alaska and Hawaii, I chose not to bring formal clothes (as I also have done on my last 10 cruises on different lines). On first formal night, I wore dark blue trousers, black shoes, a dark blue pin-striped shirt that matched the trousers, and a navy blue zip up cardigan sweater (all nicely co-ordinated). As we arrived at the dining room, the greeter said "it was formal night." "Yes, I know," said I, "and these are my formal clothes for the cruise". "We require a jacket," says he. "I have none," says I. "We have one you can borrow," says he. "That would be nice," says I. He then reached under his desk and handed to me a black tuxedo type dinner jacket. I took off my sweater, which my wife held, and tried to put on the jacket. I am a size 44 and it was about a 36. "I don't think it fits correctly'" says I. "It looks just fine," says he. "Please follow me." And I walked to my table, wearing a jacket that looked as though I had selected it from the little boy department. It also had clearly showing food stains (I hope) on the sleeve. I was seated with my dining companions for that evening (Any Time Dining). I ate my meal, enjoyed it, but, for some reason, there was no conversation from anyone during dinner. After dinner, I returned the jacket and asked if there was a charge for using it. "No," says he. "Well, thank you," says I. QUESTION: WHAT WAS THE POINT???? In the dining room were men wearing tuxes, suits, sport coats, or just shirts with tie and no coat. Also, men with open neck shirts and coats, and others who had removed their coats and placed them on the back of their chairs, either because they were feeling warm or uncomfortable. If the thought was to make my dining companions enjoy formal night, I don't think it worked, as they seemed more uncomfortable looking at me than I did wearing this ill fitting jacket. The next formal night we chose to dine in the Canaletto Restaurant which was so enjoyable and relaxing that we also dined there on the last evening of the cruise. This experience did not take away from my cruise enjoyment, but come on...it is 2010 and not 1920. If people want to dress up, then let them. But don't turn away people who are cleanly and neatly dressed. The next week, we sailed on RCCL Rhapsody of the Seas, where the same outfit was welcomed by my dinner comapnions and the dining steward, who said, "We would not turn you away, sir. You are our GUEST." We sail again, next month, on HAL. Can't wait to see what happens on that particular ship.

[sail7seas]

I'm sorry you were made to feel so uncomfortable. HAL needs to get consistent with their dress code policy. Either enforce a jacket required for all or do not be haphazzard in enforcement.

 

Hope the rest of your travels were enjoyable.

 

[fridayeyes]

I read on here recently that a gentleman asked a HAL Maitre'd what the minimum requirement was for men on formal night.

 

The answer was: A jacket OR a tie.

 

I say this not to chastise but to inform. Ties are easy packing when you're trying to go light, and I daresay your ensemble would have passed muster had you added a tie.

 

Also, in the future if you are offered the HAL jacket, it looks lovely on the back of your chair. ;)

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the rest of your cruise.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

[vbmom87]

We were on the Volendam in 2008 and yes, what you described is what was enforced on our cruise. Men could wear a button down shirt with a tie and no jacket, or wear a jacket and shirt with no tie and be allowed in on formal night. Women could wear just about anything except jeans I think.(

 

My DH and I are not formal people and I understand both sides but don't know the proper solution. Those who are into dressing up like to be surrounded by others who are dressed up and share the same experience. On the other hand, I understand those who believe they paid for this cruise just like everyone else and they should be able to dress the way they want. We were on this cruise with my brother-in-law and sister. He was turned away because he had a dress shirt but no tie on. I guess this was the first time he had that happen on all of his many cruises. He does not like to pack dress clothes. They had no ties to offer him, so he went and purchased one. (My DH did throw a tie in suitcase at the last minute) Had we been on this cruise ourselves, I would have simply gone to eat in the Lido. I am a rule follower. I have no problem if a cruise ship dining room wants to require certain clothing. As long as they give me another dining venue, I have no issues.

[taxmantoo]

I'm sorry you were made to feel so uncomfortable. HAL needs to get consistent with their dress code policy. Either enforce a jacket required for all or do not be haphazzard in enforcement.

 

Hope the rest of your travels were enjoyable.

 

 

HAL's policy is quite clear on their website and their documentation...

 

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

 

Whether one agrees with it or not and whether individual ships have different enforcement levels is basically irrelevant. If one chooses to dress other than the stated policy, they need to be able to adjust to and accept the consequences.

[navybankerteacher]

HAL's guidelines are clear -- they are also reasonable. What is unfortunate is that they are sometimes not uniformly applied.

 

No one should complain about being denied seating if not conforming to guidelines -- but they certainly can if those guidelines are not consistently applied.

[debsjc]

I have to be honest, and I hope you don't think this is rude....however I have to say I agree with HAL on this one.

 

The rules are there for everyone to read before selecting to cruise with HAL. There are other options aside from the main dining room, if you didn't wish to bring clothes that met those guidelines.

Sounds like a tie along with your smart trousers and shirt would have solved the problem, and not taken up much suitcase room.

 

What would be the point of issuing the guidelines if they were not enforced?

[serendipity1499]

I'm sorry you were made to feel so uncomfortable. HAL needs to get consistent with their dress code policy. Either enforce a jacket required for all or do not be haphazzard in enforcement.

 

Hope the rest of your travels were enjoyable.

 

 

 

HAL's guidelines are clear -- they are also reasonable. What is unfortunate is that they are sometimes not uniformly applied.

 

No one should complain about being denied seating if not conforming to guidelines -- but they certainly can if those guidelines are not consistently applied.

 

I agree with you both inconsistency is the crux of the problem! DH wore his Tux on our recent Bermuda Cruise on the Veendam and was in the minority..Only one other Gentleman was wearing a Tux..On Formal Night in any time dining they were seating men in jackets/sans tie or with ties/sans jackets...DH said he no longer wants to wear a TUX as he does not wish to stand out..I'm unhappy about it, but do understand.. Unfortunately, Copper10-8 noticed the same thing on his Bermuda cruise a month later..

On another previous cruise DH in his Tux, was asked in an elevator in a scornful way, "Wow, are you a politician or something?" We were dumbfounded & laughed it off.. :eek: Wish I could have thought of a good comeback..;)

Sorry Taxmantoo, but it does make a difference to those who do not wish to be the center of attraction & stand out..On our cruise next month I'm hoping that DH will agree to wear his Tux once more, as we plan to have a ROV ceremony with our four best Friends in attendance..

If he agrees I'll be pleased, but if not I'll understand..

Cheers.......:)Betty

[iancal]

Not only are the guidelines applied inconsistently in the MDR, they are applied inconsistently in other areas of the same ship. I strongly suspect that if you were spending money in the casino or in the shops on formal evening, and were not dressed to code, that HAL would certainly not ask you to leave. HAL has a double standard . I have never seen anyone turned away from the casino or from the shops because he or she was not dressed to code.

[Linda&Vern]

. . . HAL needs to get consistent with their dress code policy.

Sail - I agree completely. I have been on a Christmas Holiday cruise where a gentleman was allowed to enter the MDR to sit with his family wearing a plaid flannel shirt and bib overalls on a formal night. This was after the start of dinner, so it was quite obvious to everyone what his attire was as he walked through.

 

HAL's policy is quite clear on their website and their documentation . . . Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. Whether one agrees with it or not and whether individual ships have different enforcement levels is basically irrelevant. If one chooses to dress other than the stated policy, they need to be able to adjust to and accept the consequences.

You are correct ... HAL's website says exactly what you quoted above. IMO however, there are two problems with the way it is written. (1) Notice the word "usually" - strange they would add that specific word in there. (2) There is no mention of being denied entrance to the MDR on formal evenings if not dressed formally - no "consequences" are mentioned . With that said, on our upcoming cruise DH will be in his tux (he loves it) and I will be dressed in festive attire.

[Jade13]

A cardigan sweater is not formal wear.

 

With that said, we ar in favor of HAL getting rid of formal nights.

[mafig]

We were on Volendam a few years back.

On formal night most everyone was dressed formally except for one

couple who were dressed very informally. Probably less "dressed up" than the OP.

 

They were having dinner with the Captain.

[CtheW0rld]

I'm sorry you were made to feel so uncomfortable. HAL needs to get consistent with their dress code policy. Either enforce a jacket required for all or do not be haphazzard in enforcement.

 

Hope the rest of your travels were enjoyable.

 

 

i totally agree. it should be consistent across all ships of the line.

[Mary Ellen]

While I'm sorry you had a bad experience, I'm happy to hear that HAL is enforcing the published dress code.

[Randyk47]

No particular secret that we're supportors of the dress code. We actually like formal nights and dress accordingly. That said it bothers me that HAL isn't consistent and therein lies the problem. HAL has to get its act together and enforce the dress code or drop it.

[cruisinjudy]

I agree that HAL's guidelines are clear and reasonable and I do not understand whiners who complain when they are caught. Just because you are not stopped on one cruise doesn't mean you won't be stopped on another. Live with it and be prepared.

[n0w0rn3v3r]

You will forgive me...I very much understand the formal vs not formal and I dress accordingly when on a HAL ship, but nobody has addressed the part where he was given an ill fitting/food stained jacket to bring him into compliance? Is an ill fitting/food stained article of clothing really better than what he was already wearing? So, it doesn't matter the condition of the tux as long as it is a tux?

[happyglobetrotter]

A cruise experience is glamour and luxury at least in the eyes of all the people who cannot afford to cruise and for many 'real' cruisers who are looking for that glamour and luxury.

 

Why not dress up to go in a lovely dining room with white tablecloths, flowers, for a cruise on formal nights, it beats me.

 

Choosing a style of vacation should be in line with someone's lifestyle. Choosing to cruise is choosing a certain form of formality. One does not dress on a cruise the same way they would do to go dine at Dennys or East Side Mario.

 

Someone who does not want to dress up should go to land resorts or to unformal *no dress code* policy cruiselines (Norwegian, Carnival). But coming in a formal venue without dressing properly is rude and unconsiderate. I agree that HAL should enforce the dress code all the time in the dining room.

[LDVinNC]

in the enforcement of the dress code is annoying and unfair. Two weeks ago on the Ryndam we followed a man wearing jeans into the dining room on formal night. He was not turned away. Either forget the rules, or insist that everyone abide by them.

[Lesinindy]

I know going into the cruise that there are formal nights and many folks look forward to this as part of the cruise experience. The MDR on formal nights is FORMAL not cruise casual. In December we will be on-board and for the first time ever we will not participate in Formal night activities, this is our choice and I know going into the cruise that on those nights I will either do room service or use the Lido. It is no big deal! I don't see where the problem is here. We all know it is Formal and we are free to participate or not to participate.

 

I feel this is more a courtesy to our fellow passengers than to any ship policy or rule that is strictly complied with or not or consistently applied.

[debsjc]

You will forgive me...I very much understand the formal vs not formal and I dress accordingly when on a HAL ship, but nobody has addressed the part where he was given an ill fitting/food stained jacket to bring him into compliance? Is an ill fitting/food stained article of clothing really better than what he was already wearing? So, it doesn't matter the condition of the tux as long as it is a tux?

 

It's not ideal, but what can HAL do, they can't have a spare jacket in every size? Although the food staines are another matter.

 

To be fair the dining room staff staff shouldn't be put in that position by passengers anyway.

[teacherman]

1. It did not ruin my cruise. I found the whole event kind of funny.

2. To me, FORMAL means tux or dark suit.

3. I don't disagree with the policy, but do find the use of the word "usually" quite strange in a POLICY. It seems more of a "we really wish you would" kind of thing the way it is written.

4. If you are to be denied entry, then SAY IT in the "policy".

5. Only 1 person has mentioned the ill fitting, food stained, jacket that did not match my pants and shirt.

6. And I think the "policy" suggests wearing it in all public areas on formal nights, although the Canaletto, bars, casinos, Lido, etc. are also public areas.

 

As a long time teacher who was responsible for enforcing school dress codes, I understand the enforcement issue can be a problem, as it was in our school. I always asked for a school uniform. That way, you are either wearing the proper outfit, or not. Again, IT DID NOT RUIN MY CRUISE.

They had a HAPPY HOUR EVERY DAY (2 for 1) from 4 to 5. It is the only cruise I have done where that has been available. To me, that FAR outweighs being denied entry to the dining room. Continue the discussion...isn't this fun?

[peaches from georgia]

While I'm sorry you had a bad experience, I'm happy to hear that HAL is enforcing the published dress code.

HAL really isn't enforcing the dress code consistently when the published code says jacket and tie, yet in OP's case men with jacket/no tie or tie/no jacket were being allowed into the MDR on formal nights. Let's face it, the code as published is never again going to enforced on any ship, so what's the point.

[jiminyC_fan]

Respectfully, I find it odd that the rules states "usually" and doesn't say "must" so with the wording, it isn't mandatory IMHO. I think HAL needs to change the wording to fit what they require. Until that time those that expect tux and gown perhaps should find a cruiseline that makes it mandatory rather than the other way around. We chose to eat in the Lido on the formal nights this last cruise for the first time. We're tired of lugging all the formal wear and wanted a nice relaxing cruise.

[KirkNC]

I think the OP's compliant was was less about having to wear a jacket than it was about wearing a food stained ill fitting jacket while at tables around him others were not even wearing a jacket. HAL has created this problem by soft language (saying "usually", what does that mean?) and very inconsistent enforcement. I don't fault those who show up in the wrong attire as much as I fault HAL for not having a hard and fast rule and enforcing it.

 

Kirk