CAS Changes

[Linda41]

As far as overcrowding in the CL, we only see it on the very cheap or very long cruises. All the in between cruises, which are most of them, have very manageable numbers. I have it from a reliable source (:rolleyes:) that on the current 10 day Serenade cruise there are 14 D+ on board. That isn't over crowding by any means.

 

Gina

 

We were on the Splendor in September and we were the ONLY Diamond Plus onboard!!! So, the CL was virtually empty except for a very few (3 or 4) suite guests who came from time to time. Since it was so deserted in there we only went to it 2 or 3 times on that 7 day cruise--just felt weird having such a big CL lounge (very spacious) and being the only people in there.

 

Linda (and C. D.)

[publicpersona]

I think what you describe above is exactly why they are grandfathering: they don't want to go through the mess of figuring out the number of past nights cruised.

 

I don't think the December Diamond promo was worthless, as it probably made it possible for quite a few people to reach D+ status.

 

We have placeholders, too, in our record, and it served it's purpose: to get the credit count accurate.

Grandfathering doesn't remove the need to compute number of past nights cruised, as they still need that count going forward to get to the next level. Unless they do something like arbitrarily assume every cruise is 7nt and allow you to dispute it if you can prove otherwise. They will have to make some assumptions, however, because the placeholder entries don't record the ship or number of nights at all.

 

Re December Diamond .. that's what I said .. if it got you to the next level, it was worth a lot. If it didn't just get you to the next level, it was worthless.

 

Of course we all acknowledge this is just speculation. No need for anyone to be celebrating or whining until the facts are known. This is just "what if" discussion.

[LBcruzman]

I don't think the December Diamond promo was worthless, as it probably made it possible for quite a few people to reach D+ status.

 

This is another reason I think the plan is to restrict the CL to Suite Guests and Pinnacle Guests only. Royal made an easy path for Diamonds to make D+ quickly if that was a priority for them. With the complaints by Suite Guests of overcrowding in the CL's, I really don't think Royal has planned adding so many new D+ to those crowded conditions.

 

But if they add real Diamond lounges fleet wide, it won't be a big deal. The Diamond lounges are as nice as the CL's. But this will leave the Concierge in the CL free to service the Suite Guests as was originally intended.

[Papa T]

Can't believe I read this whole thread!!! I kept looking for any discussion of any perks between D+ and Pinnacle. As a D++ I really enjoy the second bottle of wine we started getting at 50 CC. I bet there will be some tweener perks for those significantly over D+ but still far, far short of Pinnacle. I must say this thread made me go back and count days. 57 CC, 39 cruises, 338 days. That comes to an average of 8.66 days per cruise. I must say I'm ready for something to be done. There is a totally immature and irrational part of me that feels cheated by the Florida folks who can jump on a three day cruise and rack up cruise credits so quickly. I know . . . those are (maybe were) the rules but . . . there is a certain lack of equity particularly when they can jump so quickly to the head of the pecking order for D+ upgrades.

[travelgoddess1]

WOW, just read all 180 posts......Like most posters have stated...wait until 1/12/2011....and see what happens....all that are calculating CC and nights make no differance to RCI. I am just wondering if this was a thread was srarted to get the input from the CC members..kind of a plant story....they get back to the office on Monday to see the feedback. The only reason i can see RCI changing policy is that as we all cruise more and more....they need to limit how many of thier loyal cruisers get to the highest level. Yes, we take advantage of the CL....Drink like sailors...cheap booze though :( but enjoy the company of seasoned cruisers. We cruise with SUPER CRUISERS...those 200 CC cruisers...and actually they really do not get much more then those of us at 24 CC....but they do get the perks once on board. They pay the same price as us....but they do get the upgrades if available..and they always get the flowers, champange and recogniztion of being the Super Cruiser. The one issue I have and have had is the " Giving the same CC to the same people at the same address...meaning if a Mother is giving birth tonight...she is D+....guess what...that child is D+ along with the father of the baby she just married a year ago and he too has never cruised in his life"....this to me is soooo UNFAIR.

RCI...think long and hard about what you will be announcing here in the next few weeks and make the correct desicion for both the Company and for the people who enjoy your product...and remember...we also are the one who drum up business for you by talking to friends and neighbors who encourage to sail RCI.

 

Mike

 

 

MERRY CHRISTMAS....I THINK SANTA IS ON HIS WAY TO VISIT US TONIGHT......

 

Mike, you make several excellent points -- thank you for your input on this intriguing issue. I tend to take it all with a grain of salt, until I see something in print from Royal Caribbean.:) I think the major sentiment running through this thread is that no system can be equitable to everyone. One of my favorite sayings is, "it depends on whose ox is being gored."

 

 

I did a quick (and most like inaccurate, since I majored in Italian, not math) calculation and we are at 98 credits with somewhere over 400 credited nights. I think. We'll slip over 100 before the deadline, so now I'm pretty happy about that metal water bottle that the Diamonds in December are getting.:)

 

I'll be interested to see if (1) all of this pans out and (2) what it actually translates to in terms of benefits.

 

We'll be sharing the news together.:D Bon Voyage!

[PH8]

There is a totally immature and irrational part of me that feels cheated by the Florida folks who can jump on a three day cruise and rack up cruise credits so quickly. I know . . . those are (maybe were) the rules but . . . there is a certain lack of equity particularly when they can jump so quickly to the head of the pecking order for D+ upgrades.

Oh well!;):p

[cruising grandma]

We are already Diamond + by cruise credits, but we also have more than enough nights at sea for the "new rules" to obtain Diamond + status, whether grandfathered in or not. I can't see us reaching the pinnacle level ever. I was looking forward to our crystal block for our 30th cruise credit. Does anyone know if this will be continued? Also, if RCI does change the concierge lounge accesiblity to suite and pinnacle and use the diamond lounge for diamond and diamond +, what extra perks are diamond + going to have over diamond?

 

We are also elite on Celebrity(with 20 Celebrity cruise credits), so if the company changes to days at sea for RCI, will they also change to days at sea for Celebrity?

 

I encouraged a cruise friend to take a three night cruise in a junior suite for December diamond event(3 cruise credits for a 3 night cruise) to help her obtain diamond + sooner. Even if they give three credits for that, unless the diamond member reaches diamond + before the new rules take effect, it won't help other than having 6 additional nights at sea for the new rules.

 

Whatever changes occur, I still would rather be cruising the Caribbean than watching this snow coming down.......

 

Merry Christmas, everyone!

[mommabean]

I think what you describe above is exactly why they are grandfathering: they don't want to go through the mess of figuring out the number of past nights cruised.

 

I don't think the December Diamond promo was worthless, as it probably made it possible for quite a few people to reach D+ status.

 

We have placeholders, too, in our record, and it served it's purpose: to get the credit count accurate.

 

If things go as rumored, it was worthless to those of us who are already D+. Only lower levels benefited or those who got bumped over 100 if there is any truth to the automatic offer of pinnacle.

 

It really is a wasted cruise credit for those between 24 and around 90 cruise credits. Unless of course they are generous and multiply our cruise credits per cruise by the length of the cruise so we can still obtain benefit for our extra credits earned by cruise length and the Dec. promotion.

 

That would mean that a 14 night cruise in a suite would be 42 days at sea in daily credits instead of the expected 28 days for just the suite credit. I don't think that's likely but it would be sort of like "grandfathering" in our past credits for cruises as they were offered at the time. And it would make the extra December credit mean something for most D+ who aren't close to 100 credits yet.

 

 

Gina

[mommabean]

We were on the Splendor in September and we were the ONLY Diamond Plus onboard!!! So, the CL was virtually empty except for a very few (3 or 4) suite guests who came from time to time. Since it was so deserted in there we only went to it 2 or 3 times on that 7 day cruise--just felt weird having such a big CL lounge (very spacious) and being the only people in there.

 

Linda (and C. D.)

 

This is how it is more often or not for us, too. The few people in the CL, the less we want to use it. It lacks the fun and interest when it's underused. Many suite guests on our cruises have tended to book suites because they are traveling with children which in turn rules out the CL for them in the evening. The older childless suite guests many times are also D+ anyway.

 

Transatlantic and Canal crossings tend to pack them in but in those cases overflow lounges are opened. Let's no even talk about the cheap fall FL cruises. :rolleyes: That one's been beat to death on other threads. ;)

 

Gina

[elleluv]

If things go as rumored, it was worthless to those of us who are already D+. Only lower levels benefited or those who got bumped over 100 if there is any truth to the automatic offer of pinnacle.

 

It really is a wasted cruise credit for those between 24 and around 90 cruise credits. Unless of course they are generous and multiply our cruise credits per cruise by the length of the cruise so we can still obtain benefit for our extra credits earned by cruise length and the Dec. promotion.

 

That would mean that a 14 night cruise in a suite would be 42 days at sea in daily credits instead of the expected 28 days for just the suite credit. I don't think that's likely but it would be sort of like "grandfathering" in our past credits for cruises as they were offered at the time. And it would make the extra December credit mean something for most D+ who aren't close to 100 credits yet.

 

 

Gina

 

 

I don't think it's likely either, but personally I'd love to see it having done a 12 night cruise in a suite during the promotion. :D

[mommabean]

This is another reason I think the plan is to restrict the CL to Suite Guests and Pinnacle Guests only. Royal made an easy path for Diamonds to make D+ quickly if that was a priority for them. With the complaints by Suite Guests of overcrowding in the CL's, I really don't think Royal has planned adding so many new D+ to those crowded conditions.

 

But if they add real Diamond lounges fleet wide, it won't be a big deal. The Diamond lounges are as nice as the CL's. But this will leave the Concierge in the CL free to service the Suite Guests as was originally intended.

 

And with the huge salary cut they got, it will really cut back on the tips they get which won't make them happy.

 

Gina

[LBcruzman]

Eliminating D+ members from the Concierge Lounge would make the entire Crown & Anchor program practically worthless. I doubt they'll go to that extreme since the overcrowding in the lounge has already been rectified.

 

Why would it be worthless? Haven't you ever been in the Diamond Lounges on the Freedom Class and the Oasis/Allure? They are lovely and spacious lounges and we have had hot appetizers and drinks of all kinds. They are every bit as nice as any CL I have ever been in when cruising in a Suite.

 

It looks like the plan is to equip some of the older ships with Diamond lounges. They are not doing that just because of the Diamonds, my guess is because they want to make the D+ less unhappy with the new change. But again, I KNOW nothing, this is just an educated guess.

[maggieq]

I had a plan to get to D+ by Jan 2012. If the changes happen on 1/12 (my 40th birthday....what a gift:mad:), we have decided to give the other cruiselines a shot. We would love to go back on another Solstice class ship and do a 10 day Princess (caribbean itins that RCCL doesn't offer). It's not a slam to RCCL but just a change to our goal.

 

I appreciate the benefits we have received with being diamond. That noted, I am sure we won't be the only ones jumping ship for a while. We will come back I'm sure but not as often.

[LBcruzman]

And with the huge salary cut they got, it will really cut back on the tips they get which won't make them happy.

 

Gina

 

But the same thing happened when they took the CL privilege away from the Diamonds. In fact it was probably worse, since there are many more Diamonds than Diamond Plus.

 

This time, if the CL is cut off from D+, they at least have a safety net of the Diamond Lounge and the Diamond Nightly Event. That was much more than was offered to the Diamond Members when they were so abruptly cut off from the CL and before the D Nightly Event compromise.

 

For those D+ members who did not actively support the D's when they got cut off from the door of the CL, i.e., email the cruise line, etc. What did you expect? Some D+ were even happy that they cut off the D's, because the CL's were so crowded. Well now they should be happy for the Pinnacle Guests who will enjoy a less crowded CL, if in fact that is what occurs.

[LBcruzman]

I actually agree with you!!!!! ;) :D

 

Aaah well, great minds think alike and all that.......MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

[LBcruzman]

Well they grandfather people in because it is generally more upsetting for people to have things taken away, then to make it harder to get it in the first place. People don't like to lose what they already have, which is why the lounge issue last time became a bigger deal.

 

By the way, it may not be a big deal to you. But for others, particularly those who have a lot of longer, or shorter, cruises. It can be a pretty big deal. It's all in the individual perspectives and circumstances. I'm not even sure it's really more equitable. For example, Transatlantic cruises are generally cheap, summer cruises are more expensive. Someone doing a 14-day transatlantic might pay the same price as someone doing a 7-day summer cruise, but get double the credits on either system. Even the same exact cruise in early december could be half the price as in July, but some people have no choice but to cruise then.

 

Well I have been Diamond for some time and I was affected when they cut off the Diamonds from the CL. Unfortunately not enough other C & A members complained when that happened, particularly the D+, so Royal knows they can weather any storm they create.

 

I certainly feel bad for anyone who is adversely affected by the changes, but I do believe those will mostly be people who took shorter cruises, which whenever they are taken are generally less expensive.

[chotton]

One more thing.......if cruiser F was as rich as cruiser P,he/she/it would had gladly gone on those really nice cruises.......:p

 

 

BTW-this thread made me count...........I have 225 nights at sea..:)

 

Who else counted cuz of this thread??:p

 

This thread made me also and I'm at 244.

[elleluv]

But the same thing happened when they took the CL privilege away from the Diamonds. In fact it was probably worse, since there are many more Diamonds than Diamond Plus.

 

This time, if the CL is cut off from D+, they at least have a safety net of the Diamond Lounge and the Diamond Nightly Event. That was much more than was offered to the Diamond Members when they were so abruptly cut off from the CL and before the D Nightly Event compromise.

 

For those D+ members who did not actively support the D's when they got cut off from the door of the CL, i.e., email the cruise line, etc. What did you expect? Some D+ were even happy that they cut off the D's, because the CL's were so crowded. Well now they should be happy for the Pinnacle Guests who will enjoy a less crowded CL, if in fact that is what occurs.

 

 

Yes, there was an overcrowding problem in the lounges before the previous change... there isn't now... In fact, on most cruises we go on these days (with the exception of some of the repos that attract a large number of D+, i.e. our recent Jewel TA) it's fairly quiet in there. So I don't think they'll cut D+ out of the CL... they don't need to....

 

I do think though that RCCL is concerned about just how quickly credits can be racked up using the current system and how many people are making D+ at a very quick rate and they don't want to have the same problem in a few years that they created in the past...

[LBcruzman]

Yes, there was an overcrowding problem in the lounges before the previous change... there isn't now... In fact, on most cruises we go on these days (with the exception of some of the repos that attract a large number of D+, i.e. our recent Jewel TA) it's fairly quiet in there. So I don't think they'll cut D+ out of the CL... they don't need to....

 

I do think though that RCCL is concerned about just how quickly credits can be racked up using the current system and how many people are making D+ at a very quick rate and they don't want to have the same problem in a few years that they created in the past...

 

But that seems a bit contradictory to what is actually occurring this month. They are making it very EASY for D's to become D+ this month with an extra cruise credit promotion. We could have become D+ this month by taking a

Back to Back in a JS on the Monarch rather cheaply this month. Instead we just got back from a beautiful land vacation. Becoming D+ isn't reallly all that high on my priority list.

 

For those that used the Diamond promotion in December and made it to D+, good for you, apparently they will be grandfathering.

 

Oh and I hope the D+ do not get kicked out of the CL, I just THINK that is what RCL plans to do. More power to everyone to get into any lounge!!!!!

[mommabean]

Well I have been Diamond for some time and I was affected when they cut off the Diamonds from the CL. Unfortunately not enough other C & A members complained when that happened, particularly the D+, so Royal knows they can weather any storm they create.

 

I certainly feel bad for anyone who is adversely affected by the changes, but I do believe those will mostly be people who took shorter cruises, which whenever they are taken are generally less expensive.

 

I'm a D+ who wrote and complained when they cut my D friends from the lounge.

 

I will go to the D event when the CL is dead from lack of use. I'm easily amused and love it when the Ds start D+ bashing in there - not knowing they've been invaded by one of "us". LOL And yes, this has really happened. We just laugh and tell them to watch themselves.

 

Yes, I complained. I didn't think it was right to take away a benefit like the CL from D guests. I thought the existing D members should have been grandfathered in even if they weren't going to offer it to the upcoming D members. I guess that would have been a hard thing to do.

 

Gina

[Darkwolfe]

As far inland as I live, short cruises are not really an option, so the day by day thing is really not a big deal to me at all. I'll still make diamond in 10 cruises with that 70 day mark (assuming that's accurate).

 

That said, the day by day balances out things between those that can drive in for short cruises and those who have to fly and just take the longer ones. Not at all a bad thing.

 

But, as has been said before, "it depends on whose ox is getting gored."

[LBcruzman]

I'm a D+ who wrote and complained when they cut my D friends from the lounge.

 

I will go to the D event when the CL is dead from lack of use. I'm easily amused and love it when the Ds start D+ bashing in there - not knowing they've been invaded by one of "us". LOL And yes, this has really happened. We just laugh and tell them to watch themselves.

Gina

 

Thank you for supporting the D's when they got the Ax. Unfortunately, not enough did. But precisely because they did not grandfather the Diamonds then is why I think they should not grandfather now. By grandfathering, many D's and D+ will not have earned their status the way others will have to. Doesn't seem equitable. But I am not complaining, I will be D under either system, not much will change for us.

 

D+ bashing sure seems like an odd topic for conversation while on vacation (or anytime for that matter). Guess when we are in the Diamond lounge we are too busy having fun to be talking about others.

[pscruzinboyz]

Well here is another twist...instead of nights sailed...how about those of us that spend $$$$$$$. There are a whole lot of Super Cruisers that really do not spend that much on board.....but the money people are the ones that cruise once or twice a year and will be at the bottom of the barrel of this new tier system. Most of these cruises are the ones that line the HULL of RCI

Just my opinion!! :eek:

 

Mike

[elleluv]

But that seems a bit contradictory to what is actually occurring this month. They are making it very EASY for D's to become D+ this month with an extra cruise credit promotion. We could have become D+ this month by taking a

Back to Back in a JS on the Monarch rather cheaply this month. Instead we just got back from a beautiful land vacation. Becoming D+ isn't reallly all that high on my priority list.

 

For those that used the Diamond promotion in December and made it to D+, good for you, apparently they will be grandfathering.

 

Oh and I hope the D+ do not get kicked out of the CL, I just THINK that is what RCL plans to do. More power to everyone to get into any lounge!!!!!

 

 

They made it easier for someone who was just a few credits away to make it to D+ if it was important to them... AND they got people on their ships during the first half of December, which is typically the slowest time of year in the vacation industry.

 

How many D+ members will they have in 5 years though if they don't change the way that credits accrue. It's the long term that's an issue, not the C&A members who were close enough to D+ to make it to that level with just an additional credit or two.

[Bruin Steve]

My personal math...or why I've decided not to care

 

Okay, after reading this whole thread, I decided to log on to RCCL and try to figure out where I stand...

 

First know that I am Diamond under the current system and RCCL shows me with 13 credits...I have one more cruise on January 2, so that one will fall in under the old system, not that it matters...but, call it 14 current credits...

 

As a side here, I am Elite on Celebrity...they show me with 16 credits...

 

Here's where it gets to be fun...Royal Caribbean's accounting for this has never been very good...

 

When I go to my cruise history on RCCL, it's wrong...it's always been wrong...They have cruises credited to me that I am sure I never took...and they are missing cruises that I definitely took...most of these are many years ago in both cases...I don't know anyone could really reconstruct it...

 

I assume RCCL will just do all this by computer using whatever they have in their system...too many C & A members to go through them all individually...

 

So, looking at my history, for eight of those credited cruises, they have full descrptions, including number of nights--those total 46 nights...add the upcoming cruise and they have accounted for 53 certain nights...

However, the remaining three credited cruises, two of which date back to the 70s, DON'T show the number of nights...and these three cruises account for FIVE of my current credits (one credit each for the 70s cruise, the 3 credit cruise was in 2005)...So, how will they account for those? Will they give me ZERO credit? Or can they make the assumption that they were 7 nights per credit? Or will I have to now prove what cruise I was on so many years ago?

 

Let's say they somehow just assume 7 nights per "unknown credit"...That would put me at 88 credits...It won't be accurate, but does it matter?

 

What it will do is to leave me even farther from "Diamond Plus" than I already am (under the current system, I likely would have achieved that in my next 11 cruises or sooner--figuring 11 seven night cruises, I would have hit D+ in another 77 cruise nights (or less by throwing in a couple of 12 night Europe cruises...but, figure around 165 total nights or less...Unless RCCL reinstituted the 3 and 4 night routes out of LA they once did, in which case, I'd get there a lot sooner...Now, I'd need another 87 nights--or 13 more 7-nighters...

 

Now, over on my Celebrity Captains Club ledger--just in case they decide to do any "combining"--which I hope they do--I have 16 current cruise credits...Of course, over there, their accounting is slightly messed up as well...They've double-credited me for one cruise...and their accounting for my Alaska cruise tour brings up a question: It says 7-night cruise but I have THREE credits...I am assuming it is because we did it in a Suite and it was actually a 13-night "Cruisetour"...So, my assumption, therefore, is that they credit a "cruisetour" by the total number of nights, not just the cruise portion...

 

So, let's assume that cruisetour land days ARE credited...

 

Based on the new RCCL system and the Celebrity website accounting, my total nights on Celebrity, including double points for cruises in Suites, would be 115 nights...

 

So, if Celebrity went to a similar system and added new tiers, we would at least be closer with them...

 

Of course, should they decide to somehow COMBINE points from the two lines, we would currently be at 203 total nights...and, therefore beyond the initial threshold for Diamond Plus...

 

Now, we all know that Royal Caribbean and Celebrity is the same ownership...and my cruising on and loyalty to BOTH lines has put lots of money into the same pocket...

 

So, if they REALLY wanted to be fair, they would take my 203 total nights and jump me directly into Diamond Plus...Even combining the old system first, my current total combined 30 old credits would put me into Diamond Plus...

 

However, I don't count on it...

 

I assume that when they are done converting over, I will remain Diamond and Elite and nowhere near any higher level...

 

And that's just the way it is...

 

Of course, I don't cruise for the loyalty club amenities...I cruise for the cruise itself...

Sure, I enjoy some of the amenities--particularly the free drinks in the Diamond and Elite Lounges--Of course, when we first made Diamond, we had no such lounge...Then we got that lounge experience on the Liberty of the Seas...then our next couple of cruises were on ships where they didn't have it...That's when you realize that the C&A levels don't matter...they can give and they can take away...

 

The whole program is at their discretion...You really haven't "earned" anything...

 

So, there's no reason to stress out over any of this...As long as they take nothing from you in terms of level ...Of course, they can still take amenities away from those levels...

 

So, does it matter?