Is HAL Next to Change Smoking Policy. Princess Did!

[RevNeal]

Joanie, I imagine they will tell you that you could go to the Casino or Sports Bar (?)

 

On a Vista ship running at Double Occupancy there will be about 1800 passengers. A HAL ship averages about 18% smokers; if the ones who have balconies aren't allowed to use them and if nobody is allowed to go outdoors due to heavy seas/weather, there will be about 325 people all trying to smoke in the Casino and Sports Bar ... at the same time.

 

Yes, it will be WAY too smokey in there.

[RevNeal]

My last gripe is this whole thing about perfume. When was the last time someone got cancer from smelling someone's perfume? There are documented cases of non-smokers chronically exposed to second hand smoke who wind up with cancers traditionally seen in smokers. Sorry its just not the same thing. As someone asked earlier, where do you draw the line? You draw the line with documented, researched public health issues. Period.

 

The perfume "thing" isn't about cancer, it's about respiratory distress, anaphylactic shock, headaches, allergic conjunctivitis, and other allergy-based sensitivity responses that are known to be triggered by airborne particulate matter of various kinds (i.e., all documented, researched public health issues).

 

I'm usually fine around perfumes ... when they are used in moderate, reasonable amounts. But, some people seem to think that taking a BATH in their perfume is a good idea. I've been standing in an elevator on formal night and have had a couple of ladies enter the lift literally reeking of "stinkum" like a Marseilles cat house. I have been so overwhelmed that I've had to rush to get out of the elevator at the next deck, gasping and holding my head because the stabbing pain feels like someone has shoved an ice pick from my temples into my prefrontal cortex.

[RevNeal]

Frankly, I find the policy a mixed blessing. It means that there's a good chance I'll be sharing cabins with my mother gain. If she's not smoking in-cabin, we'll be able to room together. Unfortunately it makes life harder on Mom -- she'll have to seek out the few places aboard ship where she'll be allowed to smoke, but otherwise it's a good thing.

 

I understand the concern about smokers on Verandahs, however I don't believe it's going to be as big an issue as some fear it will be. Not being able to smoke in-cabin will have a significantly negative impact on new smokers coming to HAL, while at the same time causing current HAL-cruising smokers to quit the Line. I know my mother's response was a sharply negative one when she read the news, and even when I pointed out the areas aboard ship where she could smoke, she said that the change in policy might be a deal-breaker for her ever cruising again. However, she wants to cruise to Alaska again, so ... in the end she says she's willing to do what it takes to make that possible.

[iancal]

I have no doubt that some people have reactions to perfumes and colognes.

 

I think what most people would say is what exactly does that have to do with changing the smoking policy?

 

Many people have serious, life threatening allergies. This is unfortunate. But is does not mean that all of these allergies impact the same proportion of the population and that HAL should change the smoking policy only when they address/resolve all other allergy issues.

 

I have never had a problem with people smoking on balconies. But I think that HAL will change this in a few years, or less, simply because of the comments above

 

I think HAL is looking at the 18 percent who smoke. But I also think that are looking at this number over the past 5 years to see if it is trending up or down. I also suspect that they have been doing a number of focus group sessions amoung their customer base and in their target customer base. Finally, I have no doubt that they have been reviewing the stats, studies, and financial results from the hospitality industry. Specifically the occupancy and financial impacts at business hotels and vacation resorts when smoking policies were changed. Any good business person in the hospitality and tourism business wants to be where the market is going. I suspect HAL, and Princess, are trying to move with, or to, that market.

 

The writing is on the wall in big capital letters.

[RevNeal]

I have no doubt that some people have reactions to perfumes and colognes.

 

I think what most people would say is what exactly does that have to do with changing the smoking policy?

 

I agree.

 

Many people have serious, life threatening allergies. This is unfortunate. But is does not mean that all of these allergies impact the same proportion of the population and that HAL should only be changing the smoking policy only when they address/resolve all other allergy issues.

 

I have never had a problem with people smoking on balconies. But I think that HAL will change this in a few years simply because of the comments above

 

Probably. HAL tends to do things slowly.

 

I think HAL is looking at the 18 percent who smoke. But I also think that are looking at this number over the past 5 years to see if it is trending up or down.

 

Their smoking questionnaire has been tracking details even to the specific persons involved. Among their current passenger-base they know whom this is hitting negatively, and how, and how much it's going to cost them in passenger-base loss, and how much it will help them in new passenger acquisition.

 

I also suspect that they have been doing a number of focus group sessions amoung their customer base and in their target customer base. Finally, I have no doubt that they have been reviewing the stats, studies, and financial results from the hospitality industry. Specifically the occupancy and financial impacts at business hotels and vacation resorts when smoking policies were changed. Any good business person in the hospitality and tourism business wants to be where the market is going. I suspect HAL, and Princess, are trying to move with, or to, that market.

 

The writing is on the wall in big capital letters.

 

Agreed. This is not something that HAL has jumped into without serious, significant thought. That doesn't mean, however, that there may not be some unintended consequences or some unanticipated outcomes. We should keep in mind that they MUST have done a lot of pre-planning and research before pouring a lot of money and effort into raping the stern of the Veendam. Now they're having to come back and fix it. The long and short of that lesson is that, even with the best intentions and with significant money and time spent in research, etc., they can and do still make mistakes. I don't think they've made a mistake with the smoking policy ... the current policy is an incremental step in the "right direction." However, as with most incremental steps, right now the ardent, "true believers" on both sides are unhappy. Unfortunate, but being in the middle of the road usually means you're a target from both directions.

[sail7seas]

I just got an e-cigarette, so I hope they will allow that on the verandah - I see no reason why not, no burning, no odor, just some water vapor that would disperse immediately...You are going to LOVE Silversea, I will bet! Get ready for bliss! And despite what everyone may say, if you imbibe (including water, soda and speciality coffees) and are flying with inclusive air to meet the ship, it really is not much more expensive, itinerary depending. We worked it out comparing a 2008 Med cruise on HAL (with flights and onboard account charges for beverages) versus this June's SS Med cruise, and the SS was only about $500 more!

 

Have a great voyage!

 

Michael

 

 

HAL will continue to permit cigarette smoking on verandas so you surely can smoke your e-cig if you wish on the veranda.

You may wish to review one of the smoking threads here to read where smoking will and will not be permitted on HAL ships. All anyone could possibly need or want to know is contained in the currently running threads. :)

[Beyondthe7Seas]

case in point - i'll be on a business trip for the next month or so. the non-smoking hotel chains didn't have a chance at getting my booking. no hotel operates at 100%, so that is money lost.

 

I'm someone who hates smoke, and will only stay at hotels that are 100% smoke-free. So that is money gained.

[Randyk47]

HAL will continue to permit cigarette smoking on verandas so you surely can smoke your e-cig if you wish on the veranda.

You may wish to review one of the smoking threads here to read where smoking will and will not be permitted on HAL ships. All anyone could possibly need or want to know is contained in the currently running threads. :)

 

I believe the poster was talking about Silversea not HAL. Probably is confusing as we spun off a bit talking about HAL stopping cabin smoking but allowing veranda smoking whereas Silversea stopped veranda smoking but permits cabin smoking. I think it was offered as a comparison of the different ways that different lines have approached the smoking issue.

[sail7seas]

Silly me thinking we were talking about HAL on the HAL board. :D

 

Hard to keep straight which smoking/non-smoking cruise line/veranda is 'next up'. :rolleyes:

 

I saw an e-cig for the first time the other day. It was offered for sale in a convenience store and it caught my eye. If it helps people quit, great. If it doesn't waft smoke to my veranda and I don't have to put up with stink and burning eyes, fine.

 

 

 

 

 

[startwin]

Frankly, I find the policy a mixed blessing. It means that there's a good chance I'll be sharing cabins with my mother gain. If she's not smoking in-cabin, we'll be able to room together. Unfortunately it makes life harder on Mom -- she'll have to seek out the few places aboard ship where she'll be allowed to smoke, but otherwise it's a good thing.

 

I understand the concern about smokers on Verandahs, however I don't believe it's going to be as big an issue as some fear it will be. Not being able to smoke in-cabin will have a significantly negative impact on new smokers coming to HAL, while at the same time causing current HAL-cruising smokers to quit the Line. I know my mother's response was a sharply negative one when she read the news, and even when I pointed out the areas aboard ship where she could smoke, she said that the change in policy might be a deal-breaker for her ever cruising again. However, she wants to cruise to Alaska again, so ... in the end she says she's willing to do what it takes to make that possible.

 

As an ex-smoker I do understand your mother's reactions, but honestly once the dust settles I think most smokers will be fine with it, though it will be a bit of a hassle to go outside to smoke. But many of them do that anyway at home. This is one issue where you just can't please everyone - I've been of the opinion that a section of balcony cabins be reserved for smokers but of course that won't work either as there will always be some non smokers who want that particular section!

 

Thinking back to the uproar when smoking was banned on planes, then in restaurants and hotels, and even pubs..... now it's the norm and everyone has adjusted. And your mother has the right attitude!

[startwin]

sapper and kazu,

Thank you for replying to my query.

 

Ditto.

[iancal]

I think that you are spot on with your middle of the road and HAL being slow to change comments.

 

But this time, I fear that their traditional wishy washy middle of the road management style will hurt them. We view HAL in the same way that we view Celebrity and Princess. So, when we look at these three, HAL will appear to us-more than ever, as the 'smokers cruise line'. I doubt very much if this is the market perception that HAL is aiming for. Clearly cruisers with the same market perception as we do will now see a different playing field when it comes to choosing between their short listed pick of ships for a particular cruise. I know we will.

 

My impression is that HAL has done the same in a number of areas-dress code being just one, entertainment being another however I believe that this decison to allow smoking on verandahs will have an unexpected negative outcome for them.

[tip]

Princess is to be commended for joining Celebrity in the 21st Century. I just hope that HAL gets with the program soon. We are booked on the Noordam for next January because my darling wife really wanted the itinerary. If we are unable to use our balcony because of the lack of clean air, it will be our last HAL cruise until they smarten up!

[Charles4515]

Oh I know I can also smell most of them since I have a nose for it but not all of them have that odor. I was just wondering what visual signs that a doctor might pick up prior to looking at their eyes & listening to their lungs.

 

The ones who don't have any odor usually cover it up with cologne or perfume.

[IRL_Joanie]

Joanie, I imagine they will tell you that you could go to the Casino or Sports Bar (?)

I quote the reply yesterday from my wonderful (and I do mean she is wonderful!!) HAL PCC:

 

Quote "There are still designated area in the ship that guests will be able to go smoke as an option." Unquote

 

So as Greg/RevNeal points out, there will be so many more trying to fit into a smaller areas, that by the way are at present very poorly circulated (air wise.)

 

Joanie

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

I am sure thay will

[iancal]

I do not think that HAL will change their course of action because a few people have phoned in or a few others have cancelled their cruises. I have little doubt that a good percentage of those 18 percent who are smokers will have no issue with the change in rules.

 

When I cruised with my father, who smoked, he was just fine with not smoking in the stateroom (as a courtesy to me). He did it on the verandah and in the smoking areas up top. Even at 87 years of age he knew which way the proverbial wind was blowing and adapted to it.

 

I am certain that HAL was well aware that this would happen prior to announcing the decison and have factored this into the decison matrix.

 

This is a done deal.

[Travalerie]

I'm just curious, but when seeing a new patient for the first time, how long does it take you to realize that they're a smoker without actually asking them?

 

 

Not long-I can smell it when I walk in-its not always them but I can tell someone around them has been smoking. Then I can tell its them when I see their teeth, lips, eyes, skin. I am in the south and these are typically heavy smokers who have smoked for years. I don't mean to offend, but I am trained to observe, so this is just what I see. Of course not every smoker has these signs but its fairly common.

[Lefty Bob]

Does HAL have some smoke free days in the casino? Some lines do offer that.

 

Bob

[maxout]

Does HAL have some smoke free days in the casino? Some lines do offer that.

 

Bob

 

Yes, All the smoke you want (or don't) for free! ;) :p :D

[Randyk47]

Does HAL have some smoke free days in the casino? Some lines do offer that.

 

Bob

 

Two cruises ago we had casino "smoke free" days two or three times on a 14-day cruise on the Veendam. Most recently, this past March, we had no casino "smoke free" days on a 11-day cruise on the Maasdam. Not sure who or why that call is made or not made.

[taxmantoo]

Does HAL have some smoke free days in the casino? Some lines do offer that.

 

Bob

 

Nothing is ever free in a casino ;)

[sportsmum]

I understand that the smoke blows from front to back on the veranda's. That just makes sense. I am thinking we would get less on an aft-neighbours will make a difference, of course. Is this correct?

 

Also,we have the Veendam cabin 223 booked and wonder if there is open deck beside us that would now be a smoking area. Anyone know?

 

It won't change anything, I'm just curious!

[Travalerie]

The perfume "thing" isn't about cancer, it's about respiratory distress, anaphylactic shock, headaches, allergic conjunctivitis, and other allergy-based sensitivity responses that are known to be triggered by airborne particulate matter of various kinds (i.e., all documented, researched public health issues).

 

I did not say that perfume does not cause reactions in some people, but you can not compare this to smoking. Someone had asked where do you draw the line. I draw the line where people are dying in large numbers. I would put my money on more hospitalizations from peanut allergies than perfume reactions. BUT I have not researched it and will not for the purposes of this discussion. I guess we all have to find vacations that expose us less to the things that bother us the most.

[SeaMatesNYC]

Silly me thinking we were talking about HAL on the HAL board. :D

 

Hard to keep straight which smoking/non-smoking cruise line/veranda is 'next up'. :rolleyes:

 

I saw an e-cig for the first time the other day. It was offered for sale in a convenience store and it caught my eye. If it helps people quit, great. If it doesn't waft smoke to my veranda and I don't have to put up with stink and burning eyes, fine.

 

Quite naturally, when one line makes a change such as this, discussion of the policies and onboard life of others might just possibly come up, but forgive me if I have offended your sense of order. I assume you will be policing all threads to ensure no mention is ever made of anything other than HAL.:D

 

There is no smoke or smell from an e-cigarette. There is water vapor exhaled by the "smoker" that gives the illusion of smoke, but is simply a visual effect. Nothing to burn your eyes, unless the vision of someone still insisting on pumping nicotine into his/her body is against your moral views.;)