My public letter to Royal: why do you keep pushing me away?

[baabtx]

Well Put!

 

On our Christmas/Holiday sailing a couple of weeks ago on the Mariner, there were 900+ kids on the ship (of all ages). And by and large they were a well behaved group (probably also due to the number of grandparents along as well)...but....

 

One afternoon the Capt. came over the ships PA system and directly admonished those parents who, as the OP stated, does just the minimum amount of parenting. He stated that if your children are NOT in the Adventure Ocean Program this does not absolve you from continuing to be a PARENT! Boy was it dead on, I guess something must have occurred!

 

On another note, if you can't find it within yourself to show a modicum of decorum and dress up just a little bit for dinner (be it formal or regular) then eat in the WJ..just a thought.

[baggal]

I agree with most of what you said, But 8 dollar drinks IN the hot tub ? Now whos breaking the rules?

 

Really don't want this thread to go off topic, but aren't drinks at the pool bars served in plastic?

[Lazz]

BRAVO to all that was stated!

 

Our last cruise was on the Serenade 2 summers ago. I have noticed this increase in the lack of concern about the behavior of their children. As a high school teacher, I have also noticed this lack of parental care increase over time. This is only going to get worse as ships get larger and ship selection gets smaller.

[Lazz]

Really don't want this thread to go off topic, but aren't drinks at the pool bars served in plastic?

 

I was wondering if they started using Red Solo Cups?

[BillOh]

I have been holding this in ....

 

 

 

Maybe that's the problem ;)

 

In 6 cruises, I've never seen anything as ridiculous as somebody letting their kid cannonball into a hot tub. I'll bet that didn't happen in the solarium hot tub which is where I'll be. We are also an empty nest couple on our way to Emerald. For the most part, a vacation is what you make of it, and we always make the best, though my turn the other cheek attitude would stop at the situation mentioned above.

 

I understand the benefits being weighed down, but I don't cruise for just the benefits, but for the benefits of I allow my coworkers to be spared my wrath till I can get on my next cruise and relax again for another year.

 

That said, I just read your message and will enjoy the replies, but I'm curious to see how many messages it will take before I get to the predictable, "If you don't want to be around kids, don't go on a cruise line caters to kids" That is one of the most idiotic things I regularly read on here. NOTE TO MODERATORS: Saying that something is idiotic is not calling the author idiotic, which is against the rules ;) Even the smartest people will say something stupid once in awhile.

[marci22]

Rude kids annoy me too; it's the luck of the draw whether or not you'll encounter any, but with more families cruising, chances are increasing. I've been on the elevator more than once with a kid pushing all the buttons with the parent standing right next to him. Same with the dining room: kids running around, parents oblivious. They just don't care.

 

The writing was on the wall when they introduced the Shrek characters. Everyone was saying 'oh, you don't have to see them if you don't want to', but the point is, they draw the familes with kids. So you may be able to avoid the characters, but it's just about impossible to avoid all the kids, no matter when you travel.

 

When we first cruised Royal (2005) we noticed teens, but far fewer toddlers and babies than Disney. Now it seems that they are about equal on many of the itineraries. I don't like it either, but that's their business model. Not sure you can do anything more than what you have been doing already.

[marci22]

That said, I just read your message and will enjoy the replies, but I'm curious to see how many messages it will take before I get to the predictable, "If you don't want to be around kids, don't go on a cruise line caters to kids" That is one of the most idiotic things I regularly read on here. NOTE TO MODERATORS: Saying that something is idiotic is not calling the author idiotic, which is against the rules ;) Even the smartest people will say something stupid once in awhile.

 

I don't think it's idiotic, really. Royal caters to families with kids. I think it's idiotic to believe you can totally escape rude kid behavior on ships that are full of kids.

[marci22]

The age old 'things change' is a joke when you have people who have literally invested life savings in a company only to be ignored.

 

If you invest your life savings going on cruises I'm not going to feel sorry for ya.

[lawgirl]

Hello all. I am glad their are some who agree with me.

 

As for choosing another line, my point is I shouldn't have to. I understand business, but I can't achieve loyalty status overnight. When I pay money in expectation of reaching certain benefits, and then the rules are changed especially as to those benefits I most want, it is disappointing. Royal could grandfather rules, or have some type of other kid friendly perk for families with suites or families with D+.

 

NCL and Princess were shorter cruises taken with others, so hard to fairly compare to Royal. Certainly both had cool ship features.

 

As for the pool drink, at least at that time, a plastic drink glass was allowed.

 

I am looking into another Celebrity cruise now. It is clearly more money, but I am just worn out with Royal changing the rules every time I think I've paid enough in cruises to get a perk.

 

Thanks for listening.

[BillOh]

And then there's the ubiquitous "my husband doesn't want to wear a jacket and tie on formal night. Can't he just wear a shirt and pants?" The entire dumbing-down of our society, of which the cruising world is a tiny microcosm, is pretty sad. We're not prudes, and we are pretty casual dressers, but there are certainly times and places where dressy clothes and a mature, adult environment is appropriate and fun. Wearing a tux or suit twice in 7-8 nights is hardly an imposition and actually ehances the atmosphere.

 

The word superficial comes to mind. Having "been there done that" I no longer take formal wear on a cruise, but I also then find dining alternatives for formal night. I don't want to take away from the atmosphere of others. But part of that is just snobbery. On many cruises I have spent my OBC on photos and people have actually told us the photos are just for people in formal wear :rolleyes: when we went to some photo station on formal night.

[BillOh]

I've been on the elevator more than once with a kid pushing all the buttons with the parent standing right next to him. .

 

 

I've been tempted to call that "urban myth" or would have be Nautical Myth?;) I've never seen it. However I try to cruise when school is in session. Perhaps with me being a technology geek and a control freak, I usually stand by the elevator buttons. I sometimes wonder if people only think this happens because people waiting to get on the elevators leave before the elevator gets there and it ends up stopping on that floor needlessly. If I was on an elevator a kid tried that, he would only get two buttons pressed.

[Iluvcruising2]

You said her points were reasonable but I think you're missing the point. It wouldn't take much to keep childless longtime cruisers happy. They're not asking for much. The mass market excuse is a manufactured excuse by the "It's my vacation and I'll do what I want crowd" and not the cruiselines. The age old 'things change' is a joke when you have people who have literally invested life savings in a company only to be ignored.

 

I am happy to stand corrected on this issue.

 

I have assumed a trade-off. But you may be right in that there might not be a trade-off, if RCI manages the issue well.

 

Therefore, to be more constructive, perhaps the letter to RCI should contain concrete examples and suggestions on how this can be achieved, i.e.

 

"It wouldn't take much to keep childless longtime cruisers happy."

[Aquahound]

OK, start lambasting me....

 

Not from me. Like you, DW and I are a childless couple and we strive to avoid mid summer cruises full of the little darlings.

 

Unlike you, we were lucky in that we achieved the next status levels prior to losing anything. All we have missed so far are the crystal blocks because they keep changing those levels just as we reach them. But that's no big deal.

 

A couple years ago, we added Celebrity to our cruising consideration and found we love them. We didn't have to achieve any status because we automatically were granted their highest level, Elite. We just recently took the Summit out of PR. There were almost 0 kids on board and our Elite status earned us a dinner at the Captain's Table.

[Iluvcruising2]

Not from me. Like you, DW and I are a childless couple and we strive to avoid mid summer cruises full of the little darlings.

 

Unlike you, we were lucky in that we achieved the next status levels prior to losing anything. All we have missed so far are the crystal blocks because they keep changing those levels just as we reach them. But that's no big deal.

 

A couple years ago, we added Celebrity to our cruising consideration and found we love them. We didn't have to achieve any status because we automatically were granted their highest level, Elite. We just recently took the Summit out of PR. There were almost 0 kids on board and our Elite status earned us a dinner at the Captain's Table.

 

After reading their annual report, I firmly believe that RCCL wants customers like you on Celebrity rather than Royal Caribbean. Based on your cruise history alone, I think you would be part of their premium customer base (based on typical market segmentation).

 

BTW - Diamond on Royal will automatically be entitled to Elite on Celebrity right?

[Ocean Boy]

We do some people take any opportunity they can get to turn a thread into a dress code issue?:rolleyes:

[Aquahound]

After reading their annual report, I firmly believe that RCCL wants customers like you on Celebrity rather than Royal Caribbean. Based on your cruise history alone, I think you would be part of their premium customer base (based on typical market segmentation).

 

BTW - Diamond on Royal will automatically be entitled to Elite on Celebrity right?

 

You're probably right. And yes, D does equal Elite.

[nivek82]

OP, when the kid did the cannon ball did you say anything to his/her parents if they were arround? If they weren't around did you notify a crew member?

 

When people see a kid push all the buttons do you say anything (maybe to the parrent that is there?)

 

Not saying we need to be rude but point out why that's not fair to others.

 

I agree though a cruise is what you make of it. RCI markets to everyone to fill their ships and people will be people. Just as any other vacation unless you're on your own island all alone you will have to "deal" with others. On the bigger ships the one time someone (of any age) does something to annoy think to youself that you'll probably never see them again. If they are close to you (talking in the hall all night, slamming doors, etc) then speak up but nicely. If that doesn't work then let the staff know.

[Ocean Boy]

After reading their annual report, I firmly believe that RCCL wants customers like you on Celebrity rather than Royal Caribbean. Based on your cruise history alone, I think you would be part of their premium customer base (based on typical market segmentation).

 

BTW - Diamond on Royal will automatically be entitled to Elite on Celebrity right?

 

RCI would have to make some major changes to what is available for people who like being active before they will get me back on Celebrity.

[mymollysue]

Hello all. I am glad their are some who agree with me.

 

As for choosing another line, my point is I shouldn't have to. I understand business, but I can't achieve loyalty status overnight. When I pay money in expectation of reaching certain benefits, and then the rules are changed especially as to those benefits I most want, it is disappointing. Royal could grandfather rules, or have some type of other kid friendly perk for families with suites or families with D+.

 

NCL and Princess were shorter cruises taken with others, so hard to fairly compare to Royal. Certainly both had cool ship features.

 

As for the pool drink, at least at that time, a plastic drink glass was allowed.

 

I am looking into another Celebrity cruise now. It is clearly more money, but I am just worn out with Royal changing the rules every time I think I've paid enough in cruises to get a perk.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

I can't speak about the loyalty benefits since I am the type of person who tries multiple lines and isn't loyal to just one, but I can understand your frustration re: misbehaved children and wanting to enjoy a cruise being a childless couple. I have cruised both with my child and without and of course the expectations were very different with each. For a couple traveling without children, you are definitely following all of the "rules" to try to make it as enjoyable as possible on a line that very clearly caters to families. But you can only do so much. It is a shame when I see kids running around the ship unattended or not following the rules and when I see rules not being enforced. If it were me, and I was cruising without kids, I would probably choose Celebrity simply for the fact that the clientele is a bit different. And there are plenty of great deals to be had on Celebrity boats too. It's just that Royal is a family line. Can you cruise on their ships and not have kids??? Sure....We did Disney when I was pregnant for the first time and had a blast. But when cruising on these family friendly lines, we go into the vacation expecting a lot of kids and we know the general atmosphere is going to be different.

 

You have every right to be upset and you have every right to send your letter. You just have to weigh how important loyalty status is to you versus trying another line where you might have a better time. Because, unfortunately, the problems you mentioned are not going to disappear. I fear it is only going to get worse.

[Starry Eyes]

After reading their annual report, I firmly believe that RCCL wants customers like you on Celebrity rather than Royal Caribbean. Based on your cruise history alone, I think you would be part of their premium customer base (based on typical market segmentation).

 

BTW - Diamond on Royal will automatically be entitled to Elite on Celebrity right?

 

I think so, too. they are building big ships with family oriented activities for RC. Meanwhile, they are giving you Elite status on X to help draw you over. they added the Elite cocktail hour. There will still be some kids. there will still be some bad parents. That happens everywhere.

[Aquahound]

OP, when the kid did the cannon ball did you say anything to his/her parents if they were arround? If they weren't around did you notify a crew member?

 

When people see a kid push all the buttons do you say anything (maybe to the parrent that is there?)

 

Not saying we need to be rude but point out why that's not fair to others.

 

That's easier said than done. I'm former military and have a career in law enforcement, so speaking up comes naturally to me and I do it without fear. However, in a day and age where parents (not all) seem to be more offended by another person scoulding their kids than the misbehavior itself, it tends to create arguments where nothing is accomplished. Then, those who spoke up are left defending themselves rather than the original misbehavior being corrected by the parents. Great message to the kids, huh? :rolleyes: Anyways, the last thing I want is to be kicked off the ship because of the behavior of others.

 

BTW, a few years ago on the Adventure, we had a problem with kids doing cannon balls. The problem was, the parents were joining them. Several of us did complain to staff and when they said something, a near fight broke out. Security had to be called. I knew I made the right decision by not confronting the parents because had they said to me what they said to the pool patrol, that would have been my final day on RCI.

[monicajay]

I learned my lesson with airline points when they changed the rules (number of points) needed for the tickets I wanted on the dates I wanted.

 

Because of this I doubt I will ever try to be loyal to one cruise line.

 

I agree, send your letter to Royal. They shouldn't hang out carrots then pull them back.

 

 

On the kid front, I think you are stuck with them on RCL, they are clearly marketing to the family market.

[Iluvcruising2]

I think so, too. they are building big ships with family oriented activities for RC. Meanwhile, they are giving you Elite status on X to help draw you over. they added the Elite cocktail hour. There will still be some kids. there will still be some bad parents. That happens everywhere.

 

Great observation!

 

I observed that Elite on Celebrity had better perks than Diamond on RCI, and I was wondering why they didn't equate Elite with Diamond Plus.

 

Answer - as you had pointed out! You hit the nail on the head!

 

And, I think it is working. We are very keen to try Celebrity, after we hit Diamond, and preferably when our kids are older and we get to sail without them!

[cello56]

What we need is for RCI to ENFORCE the rules that it already has in place with regard to children.

 

The solarium is for ADULTS ONLY. There needs to be a large sign as you enter the area. On Liberty last month, the only sign I saw was in the pool itself which many parents honestly did not even see. The pool patrol were good about asking them to leave, but if there had been a large sign I think many would have just stayed away to start with.

 

Specialty dining with children is before a certain hour - make sure that this is observed when taking the reservation.

 

Perhaps that there needs to be parental guidelines spelled out at embarkation and in the daily compass regarding unattended children.

 

After reading the thread on parents wanting their teens to be out and about the ship on their own well after the 1am curfew, nothing surprises me.

 

RCI needs to stop being so afraid to correct bad behavior when it comes to children. Should they really care if they offend the bad parents who let their kids run amuck? Really? I would think that they are better served retaining the well behaved customer who will not alienate the other passengers from booking their next cruise. And that does not just mean the childless folks. There are plenty of well behaved children whom I would have no issue cruising with.

[twocc's]

We also do not like the rules and benefits being changed. C&A is probably important to people who start cruising a lot. Profit probably is made from new cruisers as well as frequent cruisers. Where is the most profit coming from and which cruisers does the company want to attract?

 

Charles and Connie