Will we be denied boarding?

[Spoiledliz]

Hello all!

 

My brother and sister-in-law are joining my husband and I on a Royal Caribbean cruise next month leaving Puerto Rico and visiting Barbados, St. Lucia, Antigua, St. Maarten and St. Croix. (We are leaving from Boston, MA)

 

The problem is this. My brother is not able to obtain a passport because of outstanding child support. He currently pays his support and continues to make payments to his previous outstanding obligation. But because it is over $2,500 he is not able to obtain a passport.

 

He has a driver's license and a government issued birth certificate but is there any reason he could be denied boarding? Or entering and exiting the ports? Will he have any problems?

 

He visited St. Thomas 2 years ago and had no problems but obviously this is a bit different and I just want to make sure there won't be a problem!

[Essiesmom]

As long as he has the official birth certificate, and gov't issued photo ID, he will not be denied boarding. EM

[Nebr.cruiser]

I *think* he'll only need his birth certificate since Puerto Rico is a part of the United States, but don't take my word for it.

 

Find out for sure from some definitive source.

[sail7seas]

Do you embark and disembark in the same U.S. port?

Do you board the ship in San Juan, sail your full itinerary and end your cruise in San Juan? IF that is the case, he should be okay with his official birth certificate (from City/Town not from hospital) and a drivers license.

 

I'm not quite clear on that from reading your post where you board and disembark seeing you mention Boston.

I think you are saying you will be flying from Boston to San Juan...... right?

 

 

Edited January 10, 2012 by sail7seas

[riffatsea]

Puerto Rico is not a foreign country so no passport is needed to go there or to go on a cruise which leaves and returns there.

The only problem which could arise is IF there is some sort of emergency which would require your brother to fly home from one of the islands. THEN he would need a passport to fly.

The cruise line will not deny boarding since all that is required is an official USA birth certificate and photo ID.

[reallyitsmema]

Hello all!

 

My brother and sister-in-law are joining my husband and I on a Royal Caribbean cruise next month leaving Puerto Rico and visiting Barbados, St. Lucia, Antigua, St. Maarten and St. Croix. (We are leaving from Boston, MA)

 

The problem is this. My brother is not able to obtain a passport because of outstanding child support. He currently pays his support and continues to make payments to his previous outstanding obligation. But because it is over $2,500 he is not able to obtain a passport.

 

He has a driver's license and a government issued birth certificate but is there any reason he could be denied boarding? Or entering and exiting the ports? Will he have any problems?

 

He visited St. Thomas 2 years ago and had no problems but obviously this is a bit different and I just want to make sure there won't be a problem!

Does he have a court order against him that says he can't leave the country? Since he can't get a passport, I would guess there is an order. He should investigate this before trying to leave the country. He needs to contact the agency that is in charge of his case.

[sack]

I believe you may experience inconveniences and difficulties trying to take this cruise and enjoying ports without a US Passport. However, I would contact Royal Caribbean directly, and ask them. Be specific when discussing your situation and get the name of the person you spoke with.

 

I found the following information from the Passport website:

 

If your boat only stops at US ports, then no passport is necessary. If you are cruising outside of the Western Hemisphere, you definitely need a passport.

 

There are a few exceptions for cruises in the Western Hemisphere:

 

US citizens on a closed-loop cruise, one that begins and ends at the same US port, can use a driver’s license or government-issued ID card and a birth certificate, certificate of naturalization or certificate of citizenship.

 

However, most cruise lines strongly recommend that all guests travel with a valid US passport during their cruises for a couple of important reasons:

 

If you have a medical, family, personal or business emergency and need to fly back to the U.S. before your cruise ends a passport is required or you could experience significant delays and complications.

 

If you need to fly to meet your ship at the next available port should you miss your scheduled embarkation in a U.S. port or if you miss a ship’s departure from a port of call.

 

Some ports may have their own entry requirements. Talk to your cruise line to confirm the documents you need for your cruise.

 

I hope that you and your travel party have an enjoyable and uneventful cruise :)

[Langley Cruisers]

My brother is not able to obtain a passport because of outstanding child support....

 

Does he have a court order against him that says he can't leave the country? Since he can't get a passport, I would guess there is an order. He should investigate this before trying to leave the country. He needs to contact the agency that is in charge of his case.

 

Agreed completely.

 

OP, I think you might be missing the bigger issue here, that being can he join you at all on your cruise. Additionally, and with no offense intended to my fellow board members here, this is not where you want to be getting your answers. He may even need to contact a lawyer about this.

 

BTW, the Customer Service Reps at the RCI call center may not have the correct and legal answer either. As many have mentioned on these boards, you can talk with 3 different people and get 3 different answers. The answer you want to hear may not help you when you're standing at the pier trying to check in. :(

[reallyitsmema]

Agreed completely.

 

OP, I think you might be missing the bigger issue here, that being can he join you at all on your cruise. Additionally, and with no offense intended to my fellow board members here, this is not where you want to be getting your answers. He may even need to contact a lawyer about this.

 

BTW, the Customer Service Reps at the RCI call center may not have the correct and legal answer either. As many have mentioned on these boards, you can talk with 3 different people and get 3 different answers. The answer you want to hear may not help you when you're standing at the pier trying to check in. :(

At a minimum he needs to contact his case manager. I did a little searching on the Mass DOR site but could not find anything that addressed this directly. He shouldn't jeopardize what ever agreement he has right now as far as paying the arrears just to go on this cruise. He doesn't want the arrangement turn to a demand for full payment.

 

OP, get him to call tomorrow and see what they say. I really would be afraid to see what happens when his ID is checked. The cruiseline submits the manifest a few days before for an initial review, he could be flagged then and have some "friends" waiting for him at checkin.

 

Good luck, I hope you get this worked out so you can have a great, stressfree cruise.:)

[boogs]

Interesting that he can't afford to pay that $2500 he's short on his child support, but he can afford to take a cruise! Something is not right with his priorities. I feel bad for his kid! :eek:

Edited January 10, 2012 by boogs

[Langley Cruisers]

OP, get him to call tomorrow and see what they say. I really would be afraid to see what happens when his ID is checked.... he could be flagged...

 

 

Agree with you, mema. Great advice as always. :)

 

Interesting that he can't afford to pay that $2500 he's short on his child support, but he can afford to take a cruise! Something is wrong with his priorities. I feel bad for his kid! :eek:

 

Well, let's not judge. It's none of our business. The cruise could be a gift, for all we know.

.

[fishywood]

As someone who has worked on behalf of persons with federal government liens against them, this gentleman is taking a serious risk attempting to exit and reenter the country (when embarking/disembarking in San Juan) unless he is certain to have permission to do so in advance.

 

Well, let's not judge. It's none of our business. The cruise could be a gift, for all we know.

 

Very true, it is not for I or any other third parties to judge. Leave that to the attorneys representing the child once they learn of this plan.

Edited January 10, 2012 by fishywood

[paul929207]

I don't care who is paying for the cruise. He should be sure he is allowed to leave the US before trying to board.

[Spoiledliz]

Thank you for all of your advice.

 

My brother had taken the wrong path after the birth of his daughter for several years. He has been paying his weekly support in addition to his arrears for 4 years now. This cruise is a gift from my husband and myself to him to celebrate his 5 years of being sober. I understand the preemptive strikes against his character but I ask you to judge when all facts are known. He has made his mistakes and is working diligently to correct them.

 

I understand due to this cruise being a closed loop cruise he does not need a passport but my concern lies with the fact that if because he is not able to possess a passport, does that mean he cannot board a cruise ship? I can't seem to find any information on the DOR website or WHTI or Royal Caribbean.

 

I contacted DOR and they said even though he is not in default and even though he is paying his arrears, he is not able to get a passport but they did not mention that he is not able to travel. As I said previously, he was able to board a plane and fly to St. Thomas. Is there any difference than him flying to Puerto Rico and boarding the ship given that its a closed loop cruise?

[cherylandtk]

Flying to San Juan is the same as flying to St. Thomas. Unless his name is on a flagged list of some kind, he will have no trouble flying to San Juan or boarding the ship with just a BC and ID.

[fishywood]

[P]reviously, he was able to board a plane and fly to St. Thomas. Is there any difference than him flying to Puerto Rico and boarding the ship given that its a closed loop cruise?

 

A very big difference--even though departing and returning to the same US port, the ship will be leaving the US! A person ineligible for a passport cannot cross the land border to Canada or Mexico; to me it is a pretty safe assumption that it would also be illegal to travel by sea to any Caribbean nation. I'm not making any legal conclusions here--I don't know what will happen when ICE sees his name on the ship's manifest, just that it behooves you to find out in advance.

[Spoiledliz]

A very big difference--even though departing and returning to the same US port, the ship will be leaving the US! A person ineligible for a passport cannot cross the land border to Canada or Mexico; to me it is a pretty safe assumption that it would also be illegal to travel by sea to any Caribbean nation. I'm not making any legal conclusions here--I don't know what will happen when ICE sees his name on the ship's manifest, just that it behooves you to find out in advance.

 

Thank you. This is exactly what I am attempting to do, albeit a bit late.

 

Would you be able to recommend a source that I might contact?

[Putterdude]

This is a closed loop cruise and as such he will not require a passport. The issue is that if he were to miss the ship in one of the ports and or have to fly back to the US from one of the other island nations for health or other reasons he would have a great deal of difficulty getting on an aircraft home.

[cherylandtk]

A very big difference--even though departing and returning to the same US port, the ship will be leaving the US! A person ineligible for a passport cannot cross the land border to Canada or Mexico; to me it is a pretty safe assumption that it would also be illegal to travel by sea to any Caribbean nation. I'm not making any legal conclusions here--I don't know what will happen when ICE sees his name on the ship's manifest, just that it behooves you to find out in advance.

It is not illegal for a passport denied NCP to cross the border or to travel; the passport denial process simply makes that sort of international travel nearly impossible without one. Crossing a land border requires a passport or equivalent. Taking a RT cruise does not. Edited January 10, 2012 by cherylandtk

[boogs]

....it is not for I or any other third parties to judge. Leave that to the attorneys representing the child once they learn of this plan.

 

Well, let's not judge. It's none of our business. The cruise could be a gift, for all we know.

.

 

Sorry, you are quite right and I should have not made the comment. It's just that my sister went through something similar a couple years ago, waiting for child support owed that she really needed, while the ex was vacationing in Tahiti with his new girlfriend. Kinda touched a raw nerve.

 

Again, sorry. I hope everyone wins in this case.

[johneeo]

I believe you may experience inconveniences and difficulties trying to take this cruise and enjoying ports without a US Passport.

 

Could you provide an example?:confused:

[Karysa]

Sorry, I can't offer any help at all here as I am trying to understand it myself. I can not think that someone who can not obtain a passport would be allowed to travel out of the country. It just does not make any sense to me at all. When people are asked to surrender their passports it is because they are a flight risk. So according to what I am reading it is ok to rent a yaucht if you can afford it and travel the world as long as you leave from the US with the intention of returning but you wouldn't be allowed to drive across the border to Canada to attend your Aunt's funeral. Am I understanding this correctly?

[paul929207]

Sorry, I can't offer any help at all here as I am trying to understand it myself. I can not think that someone who can not obtain a passport would be allowed to travel out of the country. It just does not make any sense to me at all. When people are asked to surrender their passports it is because they are a flight risk. So according to what I am reading it is ok to rent a yaucht if you can afford it and travel the world as long as you leave from the US with the intention of returning but you wouldn't be allowed to drive across the border to Canada to attend your Aunt's funeral. Am I understanding this correctly?

You got it.

[greatam]

Does he have a court order against him that says he can't leave the country? Since he can't get a passport, I would guess there is an order. He should investigate this before trying to leave the country. He needs to contact the agency that is in charge of his case.

 

Has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a court order about not leaving the country (that would be for someone on parole/probation, not child support unless someone had been arrested for FELONY non support and been put on probabion/parole). There may be a court order that states he may not take THE CHILDREN out of the USA but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

 

This is a TREASURY DEPT (IRS) rule that was instituted about 11 years ago (maybe a little longer) in conjunction with the State Dept. about not issuing passports AND confiscating tax refund checks for past due child support. Treasury can also send requests to local governments requesting license plates not be renewed and D/L be confiscated. This is usually done for state supported (welfare) cases when fathers have not been paying and states are supporting mothers and children with federally subsidized housing, Medicaid, food stamps and cash.

 

And people can get caught in Catch 22 situations like my husband (whose kids are 42 and 39). In 1984, the State of Iowa REQUESTED the child support case be transferred to Missouri. Missouri took jurisdiction, collected the money and sent it directly to the Mother (she was never on welfare). Missouri also reduced the child support from $800 per month to $500 per month (this was per Missouri's guidelines at the time and done in court). Child support was paid faithfully until the oldest was 18, didn't go to college and left his Mother's house. Child support was paid for the youngest through FIVE years of college. We went to court in Missouri in 1998 when the youngest graduated from college and the judge, after looking through all the records from the State of Missouri, issued an order that child support was paid in full and would cease immediately.

 

In 2001, we began getting letters from the State of Iowa that DH was over $50,000 in arrears. In 1996, Iowa changed the laws on out of state child support to NOT allow other states to modify child support amounts without permission of the State of Iowa. The State of Iowa is trying to RETROACTIVELY collect the $300 per month difference from 1984 through 1998 when the youngest graduated from college.

 

We have spent more money on attorney's because we need three-Iowa, Missouri and now Arizona to resolve this catch 22 we found ourselves caught in than almost the total amount Iowa ever wanted.

 

So non payment of child support is NOT always what it seems.

 

We have a court order so DH can renew his passport.

 

PS: I am a non practicing attorney who has been heavily involved with this case (doing 90% of the legal research to help pay the bills). I was also accorded the privilege of being co counsel for the last Iowa hearing. The case is now in the hands of the Iowa Attorney General, who has found some HUGE errors in the Iowa computations and the original papers filed with the State of Missouri by the State of Iowa in 1984. Hopefully, we will see this end before my DH heads off to another world (he is not particularly well).

Edited January 10, 2012 by greatam

[reallyitsmema]

Has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with a court order about not leaving the country (that would be for someone on parole/probation, not child support unless someone had been arrested for FELONY non support and been put on probabion/parole). There may be a court order that states he may not take THE CHILDREN out of the USA but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

 

This is a TREASURY DEPT (IRS) rule that was instituted about 11 years ago (maybe a little longer) in conjunction with the State Dept. about not issuing passports AND confiscating tax refund checks for past due child support. Treasury can also send requests to local governments requesting license plates not be renewed and D/L be confiscated. This is usually done for state supported (welfare) cases when fathers have not been paying and states are supporting mothers and children with federally subsidized housing, Medicaid, food stamps and cash.

 

And people can get caught in Catch 22 situations like my husband (whose kids are 42 and 39). In 1984, the State of Iowa REQUESTED the child support case be transferred to Missouri. Missouri took jurisdiction, collected the money and sent it directly to the Mother (she was never on welfare). Missouri also reduced the child support from $800 per month to $500 per month (this was per Missouri's guidelines at the time and done in court). Child support was paid faithfully until the oldest was 18, didn't go to college and left his Mother's house. Child support was paid for the youngest through FIVE years of college. We went to court in Missouri in 1998 when the youngest graduated from college and the judge, after looking through all the records from the State of Missouri, issued an order that child support was paid in full and would cease immediately.

 

In 2001, we began getting letters from the State of Iowa that DH was over $50,000 in arrears. In 1996, Iowa changed the laws on out of state child support to NOT allow other states to modify child support amounts without permission of the State of Iowa. The State of Iowa is trying to RETROACTIVELY collect the $300 per month difference from 1984 through 1998 when the youngest graduated from college.

 

We have spent more money on attorney's because we need three-Iowa, Missouri and now Arizona to resolve this catch 22 we found ourselves caught in than almost the total amount Iowa ever wanted.

 

So non payment of child support is NOT always what it seems.

 

We have a court order so DH can renew his passport.

 

PS: I am a non practicing attorney who has been heavily involved with this case (doing 90% of the legal research to help pay the bills). I was also accorded the privilege of being co counsel for the last Iowa hearing. The case is now in the hands of the Iowa Attorney General, who has found some HUGE errors in the Iowa computations and the original papers filed with the State of Missouri by the State of Iowa in 1984. Hopefully, we will see this end before my DH heads off to another world (he is not particularly well).

Chill out. You have no idea if there is a court order or not, you don't know this case, neither do I. I asked a question and then told the OP her brother needs to contact the agency involved. Because of privacy laws, the OP is not going to be able to discuss the exact details of this case and the brother needs to make the calls.