Selling a Cruise Ship..... Anyone Know?

[sail7seas]

Anyone have any memory of how long after HAL sold Noordam III and Nieuw Amsterdam III to Thompson how long before they actually turned them over to their control?

 

Were they to sell Veendam, for example, I wonder how long before it actually left the fleet.

[HamOp]

Anyone have any memory of how long after HAL sold Noordam III and Nieuw Amsterdam III to Thompson how long before they actually turned them over to their control?

 

Were they to sell Veendam, for example, I wonder how long before it actually left the fleet.

 

Maybe HAL could put it on E-BAY with no reserve. Should sell very fast, I would think:D

[496and706]

As long as the E Bay listing includes A/C and plumbing problems, sleeps plenty and has a large kitchen, etc.

[GPoll189]

Just for information both the old Noordam and the old Neuiw Amsterdam are still owned by HAL. They are presently on a long term charter with Thomson.

[KirkNC]

Just for information both the old Noordam and the old Neuiw Amsterdam are still owned by HAL. They are presently on a long term charter with Thomson.

 

I did not know that.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Sail I would think it would be much like a house. If the buyer has the money NOW and wants it NOW the seller would probably be able to make arrangements to turn it over quickly but chances are it could take a year once someone makes an offer because it could take them that long to arrange payment. Unfortunately there probably is not a lot of buyers standing in line to purchase Used Cruise Ships.

I believe it is the Norwegian Sky which is a newer ship than the Veendam has been up for sale for quite some time

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/2450-Passenger-Cruise-Ship--2466876/United-States

 

 

But just doing a search there are plenty out there for sale

[PathfinderEss]

Good question Sails. I remember seeing the Noordam in St Lucia after I though she had been sold. They had painted her all white. Maybe Copper will help us out on this one.

 

I'll have to admit, I'm with the other posters, maybe if they put the Veendam up for sale on ebay, someone might buy her.

 

I googled this on the Noordam:

 

This ship was built at Chantiers de L'atlantique in France as yardnumber X27 for Holland America Line. She is 214,66 meters long, 27,26 meters wide and her draft is 7,52 meters. She carries 1340 passengers on 10 decks and her gross tonnage is 33.933. She recieved a four star rating from Berlitz.

Noordam was built as an option sistership to Holland America's thirth Nieuw Amsterdam in 1983. The option was taken already when Nieuw Amsterdam was in the first stages of construction, but became a real order especially because of the loss of the first Prinsendam in 1980 that burned and sank without loss of life near the Alaskan coast. These two new ships were in fact three times larger but further very simular ships to the popular Prinsendam design, although the Prinsendam was built in Hardinxveld in Holland and these new ships were of course French built. They also have a great resemblance to the duo Brasil and Argentina from Moore McCormack Lines, that were later sold to Holland America Line as Veendam and Volendam.

The second of the sisters floated out on the 21st of may 1983 but in the eighties it took almost a year to complete the ship. On the 7th of april 1984 she was named by Mrs. van den Wall Bake-van der Vorm, the wife of Holland Amerika's CEO as Noordam although some people in Holland had hoped for a more well known historic name like Statendam. One day after the naming ceremony in Le Havre, the Noordam, the thirth ship for Holland Amerika with that name, sailed on her positioning-voyage to Tampa, Florida She was built mostly for Caribbean and Alaskan cruises and her homeport was Willemstad under the Dutch-Antilles flag.

 

Some people call these ships prefab-boats because of their looks and I am one of them. They have some kind of 'boxy' look about them and you may like it or not. But you can say that the Noordam was the last of the true Holland Amerika liners because she was the last ship that was built for the old company. In 1988 the company bought the Homeric but the old HAL did not built ships themselves after the Noordam anymore.

This of course because the name and the ships of the company were taken over by Carnival Cruise Lines in the early days of 1989 and with this, the old N.A.S.M. was reduced to a holdingcompany without shipping interrests. Of course, this takeover was a somewhat sad ending for one of the Netherlands biggest shippingfirms. But the 1980's had been very dark for Holland Amerika financially and it is likely that it hadn't survived as it does right now if the company hadn't been taken over. Just in the moments Carnival took over the name, the HAL had ordered two 65.000 ton ships to compete with Carnival and to regain a share the growth in cruising. After the takeover, the order was cancelled because Carnival did not wanted to compete with itself. But Carnival did order new tonnage for the company and from 1992 onwards new and modern ships were added to the fleet and they recieved old '-dam' names and Dutch officers. In 1997, all ships but one were transferred to the Dutch flag and the 'new' homeports became Rotterdam. So Carnival was really a saviour for the name and history of the HAL. With all new tonnage, some old ships had to leave. This started in 1997 with the gorgeous Rotterdam and ended with the Noordam, that was chartered out to Thomson Holidays as Thomson Celebration in november 2004. She met her sister Thomson Spirit there, the former Nieuw Amsterdam. For Thomson, these ships sail Mediterranean cruises, but Thomson Celebration also keeps sailing Northern Europe in the summermonths.

 

[sail7seas]

Just for information both the old Noordam and the old Neuiw Amsterdam are still owned by HAL. They are presently on a long term charter with Thomson.

 

 

You're right.

I forgot.

 

 

E-bay....... Love it. :)

I don't imagine there's a huge market looking to buy used cruise ships right now> Maybe Russians? Have you seen their cruise ships in ports? :eek: Maybe they'd be interested in what in many ways is a nice ship.

[Copper10-8]

On 10 August 1999, then American Classic Voyages announced that it had purchased Nieuw Amsterdam III from Holland America Line. After her final Alaska season in 2000, NieuwAmsterdam sailed, without passengers, to Sydney, Australia where she served as a hotel ship for the Summer Olympics between 12 September and 3 October 2000. She was officially acquired by American Classic Voyages on 18 October 2000 and was renamed Patriot. She was eventually reacquired when American Classic Voyages/United States Lines went belly up, chartered to Cyprus-based Louis Cruises, who sub-chartered her to UK-based Thomson Cruises for which she still sails as Thomson Spirit

On 14 January 2004, HAL announced the signing of a long-term agreement to charter Noordam III to UK based Thomson Holidays. Noordam made her final cruise for HAL from Barcelona, Spain to Lisbon, Portugal on 12 November 2004. Thomson Cruises renamed her Thomson Celebration and took possession on 30 November 2004.

 

[Typhoon1]

Anyone have any memory of how long after HAL sold Noordam III and Nieuw Amsterdam III to Thompson how long before they actually turned them over to their control?

 

Were they to sell Veendam, for example, I wonder how long before it actually left the fleet.

 

Given all the horror stories we are hearing, yesterday probably wouldn't be soon enough.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Were they to sell Veendam, for example, I wonder how long before it actually left the fleet.

 

 

Being part of the Carnival stable , they dont sell them....

they send them to Australia...:D:D

 

 

[HamOp]

On 10 August 1999, then American Classic Voyages announced that it had purchased Nieuw Amsterdam III from Holland America Line. After her final Alaska season in 2000, NieuwAmsterdam sailed, without passengers, to Sydney, Australia where she served as a hotel ship for the Summer Olympics between 12 September and 3 October 2000. She was officially acquired by American Classic Voyages on 18 October 2000 and was renamed Patriot. She was eventually reacquired when American Classic Voyages/United States Lines went belly up, chartered to Cyprus-based Louis Cruises, who sub-chartered her to UK-based Thomson Cruises for which she still sails as Thomson Spirit

On 14 January 2004, HAL announced the signing of a long-term agreement to charter Noordam III to UK based Thomson Holidays. Noordam made her final cruise for HAL from Barcelona, Spain to Lisbon, Portugal on 12 November 2004. Thomson Cruises renamed her Thomson Celebration and took possession on 30 November 2004.

 

 

Your knowledge of HAL history never ceases to amaze me!

 

Always valuable information. How do you know all this stuff?

 

Is it a "cop thing" for details?

[sail7seas]

On 10 August 1999, then American Classic Voyages announced that it had purchased Nieuw Amsterdam III from Holland America Line. After her final Alaska season in 2000, NieuwAmsterdam sailed, without passengers, to Sydney, Australia where she served as a hotel ship for the Summer Olympics between 12 September and 3 October 2000. She was officially acquired by American Classic Voyages on 18 October 2000 and was renamed Patriot. She was eventually reacquired when American Classic Voyages/United States Lines went belly up, chartered to Cyprus-based Louis Cruises, who sub-chartered her to UK-based Thomson Cruises for which she still sails as Thomson Spirit

 

On 14 January 2004, HAL announced the signing of a long-term agreement to charter Noordam III to UK based Thomson Holidays. Noordam made her final cruise for HAL from Barcelona, Spain to Lisbon, Portugal on 12 November 2004. Thomson Cruises renamed her Thomson Celebration and took possession on 30 November 2004.

 

 

Thanks, John.

 

Just what I wanted to know. :)

 

Appreciate the help.

 

[mamaofami]

I see cars and trucks for sale on eBay, so why not a ship or two?

[Yaya&Papu]

We were on the one of last cruises of that old Noordam. It was from Barcelona to Rome with stops in Sardinia and Corsica. From talking to others on board, I believe it was returning to Barcelona and then was scheduled to do a TA.

These folks were planning on doing the whole set of cruises, but when they boarded they were told that the TA portion was cancelled because Thompson wanted to take control sooner.

That was our 2nd cruise on her. We had a special room we liked and loved the interesting ports of call.

[Sailaway487]

Hi everyone! I've come over from the Thomson board. :)

 

I was just reading the thread on here regarding HAL's new ship and noticed the comment regarding that it was to maybe replace ships that could leave. Over on the Thomson board, there has been rumours about a branding change and ship changes, possible new builds and a possibility about purchasing or leasing a new ship as they are looking at new destinations. Could an ex-HAL ship be leased to Thomson again? Haven't all the last three ships to leave the fleet ended up eventually with Thomson?

 

The current Thomson Spirit (I think ex Niew Amsterdam?) has a contract till the end of 2014, and it does seem that it might not be renewed any further, so Thomson would then be looking for a replacement from summer 2015 onwards. Would this fit with the HAL new build and a current ship leaving?

 

Which ship do you think would be the one to go? I'm guessing it would be one of the Statendam fleet. As Statendam is the oldest, will this be the first one to go, or do you think it might be one of the other three?

 

We've got a Q&A in a couple of weeks with Thomson's managing director, so I'll see if he would be willing to answer a question about further leases from HAL.

[Host Walt]

Talk about a kick in the gut!

 

It wasn't that long ago (at least to me) that the Cruise Critic boards were full of posts decrying the passing of the various "vintage" ships like the Nieuw Amsterdam and its sister ship the Noordam, and later the Westerdam, with the arrival of the Statendam and its modernistic carbon copies the Maasdam, Ryndam and Veendam.

 

But in 1997 when HAL announced that the classic Rotterdam was to be replaced in 1998, the volume of posts complaining about HAL's disregard for classic ships was huge and how sad it was that HAL had opted for a bunch of clunky cookie cutter ships.

 

What I can't believe is that the announcement of the Rotterdam was 15 years ago and the older S Class ships are already reaching retirement age...especially when we sailed on the maiden voyages of each of them.

 

Ahh, well. I guess that's what happens when one gets more "mature" (my wife's preferred term fot getting "old.)"

[RuthC]

Which ship do you think would be the one to go? I'm guessing it would be one of the Statendam fleet.

If a ship is replaced, that's the best bet.

As Statendam is the oldest, will this be the first one to go, or do you think it might be one of the other three?

My money is on the Veendam as the first to go. Although it's younger, it's not in as good condition. Toss in that the aft pool was removed, and it is a less desirable ship to HAL regulars.

[Willem Ruys]

Anyone have any memory of how long after HAL sold Noordam III and Nieuw Amsterdam III to Thompson how long before they actually turned them over to their control?

 

Were they to sell Veendam, for example, I wonder how long before it actually left the fleet.

 

Actually, they sold only the NIEUW AMSTERDAM and to American Classic Voyages who defaulted. Thompson Cruises owns neither ship; they charter the former NIEUW AMSTERDAM from Louis Cruises. Louis took a long term charter from HAL on the NOORDAM. She arrived at Lisbon on Nov. 12, 2003 and was immediately delivered to Thompson as subcharterer. The paperwork may have changed since but I have found no indication of it and such transactions interest me.

[Sailaway487]

If a ship is replaced, that's the best bet.

 

My money is on the Veendam as the first to go. Although it's younger, it's not in as good condition. Toss in that the aft pool was removed, and it is a less desirable ship to HAL regulars.

 

Just been reading about Veendam on another thread on here. Doesn't sound like it has been getting great reviews recently with problems with sewage system and air-conditioning. Thomson had a lot of these problems when it inherited Costa Europa (ex-Westerdam) and got quite bad press over it here in the UK, so doubt they'd want a ship with similar problems again!

 

Thanks for the info though Ruth! :) Perhaps Statendam might be a better option to sail on then. Maasdam seems to get good reviews! Doubt HAL would want this one to leave yet.

[Sailaway487]

Anyone have any memory of how long after HAL sold Noordam III and Nieuw Amsterdam III to Thompson how long before they actually turned them over to their control?

 

Were they to sell Veendam, for example, I wonder how long before it actually left the fleet.

 

Nieuw Amsterdam (now Thomson Spirit) started sailing with Thomson from May 2003, but I think it had been previously sailing with Louis Cruises before they chartered it to Thomson a year before.

 

Noordam (now Thomson Celebration) started sailing with Thomson from May 2005. I love sailing on both ships. Both have a good layout, spacious cabins and have a great feel on board. Will be sad to see both of them leave in the end. At least if one leaves, we've got the other one. :)

 

With the current economic crisis in Greece, I'd doubt that Louis Cruises would charter a ship from HAL, as they already have one large ship laid up for some reason. Perhaps Thomson would want one, but with problems that Veendam seems to have, I doubt they'd want to go for it as they've had ships with similar problems before.

[sail7seas]

Nieuw Amsterdam (now Thomson Spirit) started sailing with Thomson from May 2003, but I think it had been previously sailing with Louis Cruises before they chartered it to Thomson a year before.

 

Noordam (now Thomson Celebration) started sailing with Thomson from May 2005. I love sailing on both ships. Both have a good layout, spacious cabins and have a great feel on board. Will be sad to see both of them leave in the end. At least if one leaves, we've got the other one. :)

 

With the current economic crisis in Greece, I'd doubt that Louis Cruises would charter a ship from HAL, as they already have one large ship laid up for some reason. Perhaps Thomson would want one, but with problems that Veendam seems to have, I doubt they'd want to go for it as they've had ships with similar problems before.

 

The problems are likely 'fixable' and if HAL were to let the ship go for a decent price, it might be worth Thomson's while to get what basically was always a lovely ship. We sailed her at least 6 -7 times prior to her aft end being reconfigured and her problems developing.

 

It's usually $$ that determines how desireable the purchase might be.

Veendam mostly is a pretty ship..... with a now not so pretty aft end.

 

Seeing how much DH and I love 'our' :) Maasdam, I dearly hope she is the last to leave HAL's fleet. Statendam likely would be early to go along with Veendam.

 

[hammybee]

Many years ago, a knowledgable poster shared how most major modern cruise lines do not own the ships they sail. Instead, the own the right to design and operate a given ship for X years.

[sail7seas]

Many years ago, a knowledgable poster shared how most major cruise lines do not own the ships they sail. Instead, the own the right to design and operate a given ship for X years.

 

 

Hi, Hammy...... Nice to see you posting.

 

Does HAL own their ships or are they leased from Carnival Corp?

[hammybee]

Hi, Hammy...... Nice to see you posting.

 

Does HAL own their ships or are they leased from Carnival Corp?

 

If my recollection is correct, the ships were/are owned by other entities.

 

I am really stretching here and seem to recall that we agree to hold harmless these " other entities" as a part of the cruise contract.

 

It has all to do with tax advantages and financing and most certainly not limited to Holland America or Carnival.