Cheap,cheap,cheap

[waltd]

This is just another cost cutting ploy that the public has not figured out as yet.

Princess loses money every time you buy entrance to the Crown Grill or Sabatinis.

The fewer meals they sell, the less money they lose.

 

Then why even put in the restaurants to begin with? To take up space? Obviously you have never run a restaurant. They are not loosing money.

[BruceMuzz]

And elite people don't send laundry down for some of their friends? Bring them into priority boarding, etc.. Sure it happens.

 

How many suite passengers do you know that have friends use their internet? I have asked many fellow suite passengers and the only ones that said they do were ones that got their first upgrade to one. They said, they wanted to take advantage of it since they never could afford to book one.

 

I am paying $4200 pp for 7 days in a suite on the new Royal. Come on Princess - for that amount of money, you could give me 200 - 300 free minutes!!! Yes, I do get some free minutes with my status but I think laundry really costs them more.

 

On Crown Princess, on just about every voyage, one-third (500) of the cabins are receiving free internet. That is one of the reasons the service is so slow.

 

MTN, the company that provides internet service to most cruise lines, had to design and build 24 high earth orbit marine satellites. Then they had to pay a bit of money to NASA to launch them all - one at a time - into orbit. Now they have to pay a bit more to maintain several large earth satellite stations with hundreds of engineers to manage all the traffic going through those satellites.

The investment runs into the hundreds of millions of dollars. Now they have only to charge a bit for the 200,000 or so users every week - then split those fees with the cruise lines - to pay off the hundreds of millions of dollars invested - and hopefully after that realize some sort of profit.

 

With such massive profits, it really makes me wonder why half the posters on this website have not started theit own marine internet companies, so they can all retire early as millionaires.

[bhawkcruiser]

Princess is at it again. They have striped giving free Internet to suite passengers. Also the priority booking for speciality restaurants is gone. Complaining to the front desk, I was told that I was paying for a nice cabin. We are on the Grand and it just ain't so. The Elite passengers receive 250 free minutes no matter if they are in a suite or an inside cabin.

We purchase the suites mainly for the nice perks that use to go with them, as well as the extra room. However, as an Elite card holder, I think I will save some money and take a smaller cabin if I ever decide to sail with Princess again. The good old days of sailing are gone, and we will just have to rethink where we we spend our entertainment dollars.

As far as the crew we have met they are wonderful and try their best to make your cruise enjoyable,but Princess is making it harder for them.

 

Everybody wants free stuff!

Well here it is the facts that less and less people understand, and these facts are what is diminishing our quality of life!

 

Cruising is a luxury, in my opinion an un paralleled luxury. But it is not a government subsidized luxury. So you must pay for what you want, no matter if it is your 1st cruise or your 100th. If you don't pay for it somebody else must! The cost of what you want does not change because you are on your 100th cruise. All that means is that you are more fortunate than others, (which is a good thing).

 

Should we have a ship tax so others can pay for what you want? What happens when everybody wants things that they don't want to pay for? Should we raise the ship tax? Or should we just pay for what we want to have?

 

This is a familiar theme in the world today, but we are talking about crushing here. If you want things that are not excluded in the price of the best vacation deal on the planet, than pay for it! Chances are you will decide you really didn't need that, you just wanted it for nothing.

 

After you attack me following this post, my point will become even clearer to those who get it.

[highheel girl]

Yet they still offer internet on all their ships at a loss. :eek:

 

Yes what a money losing proposition. :rolleyes:

 

Oh yeah and the money losing Crown Grill and Sabatinis too.

 

Oh brother.

[BruceMuzz]

Then why even put in the restaurants to begin with? To take up space? Obviously you have never run a restaurant. They are not loosing money.

 

They put in those restaurants for the same reasons they put in the library, the show lounges, the child care spaces, the swimming pools, Movies Under the Stars, the Pizzeria, the Ice Cream Shop, the Delicatessen, and the Atrium.

None of those spaces will ever generate money to pay for the massive public spaces they occupy, and the huge investments to install them. But they do offer entertainment and additional reasons for people to book cruises on Princess.

 

Sorry to disappoint, but I managed the Crown Grill and Sabatinis on several Princess Ships. I got to see the costs and the revenues every day for many years. They do not add up very well. They do not loose money - but they do lose money.

[antsp]

On Crown Princess, on just about every voyage, one-third (500) of the cabins are receiving free internet. That is one of the reasons the service is so slow.

 

MTN, the company that provides internet service to most cruise lines, had to design and build 24 high earth orbit marine satellites. Then they had to pay a bit of money to NASA to launch them all - one at a time - into orbit. Now they have to pay a bit more to maintain several large earth satellite stations with hundreds of engineers to manage all the traffic going through those satellites.

The investment runs into the hundreds of millions of dollars. Now they have only to charge a bit for the 200,000 or so users every week - then split those fees with the cruise lines - to pay off the hundreds of millions of dollars invested - and hopefully after that realize some sort of profit.

 

With such massive profits, it really makes me wonder why half the posters on this website have not started theit own marine internet companies, so they can all retire early as millionaires.

 

I have just wired my daughters new xbox up to our router, so if anyone has 200 million dollars and a space rocket im up for a new challange in the new year. How does 74c a minute sound.

[BruceMuzz]

What do they do with the 25 dollars you give them, throw it overboard

 

I opened and managed the most expensive restaurant in America for several years.

We built the restaurant for $1.2 million.

We were fully booked for several years in advance.

Average check for dinner for 2 was $800 - without wine.

The restaurant never once made a profit.

Luckily the owners didn't need a profit. They used the restaurant as a showcase to attract investors. And they had huge egos that made them want to have the highest rated and most expensive restaurant in America.

 

By comparison, the Crown Grill cost around $5 million to build and install.

Building a restaurant on a ship is far more challenging - and far more expensive - than one on land.

Forgetting about food costs and labor costs, how many passengers need to pay $25 to cover the $5 million construction cost?

200,000

Crown Grill serves an average of 100 people per night.

It will take them 2,000 nights or 5.48 years just to pay off the construction costs.

 

But then, Princess pays around $21 per pound for the steaks they serve there.

Many of the steaks they serve are over 1 pound.

Just the main course at Crown Grill costs Princess more than the $25 you pay to eat the entire meal. But wait, Princess actually budgets an additional $15 or so from your daily cruise fare to pay for all the meals you eat onboard every day. So if they take $5 or $10 of that money and add it to the $25 you paid for the entire meal, they might be able to cover the actual cost of the food you eat in that outlet. No profit of course, but at least they cover the cost of the food.

 

But if they use that food cost money to cover the cost of the food, how are they going to pay for the $5 million construction costs?

The answer is, "They are not".

And that is why Princess loses money every time you eat in the Crown Grill.

[Rick-cruiser]

Thanks for explaining all that.. Nice to hear from a real expert....that should quiet the arrogant know-it-alls on here.

 

 

There was a time when there was no internet (or cell service) on Princess and you actually had to tell your employer that you could not be contacted.

 

Funny.... I still tell my employer that I can't be contacted when I'm on vacation.. They know not to ask anymore.. That's fundamentally what the definition of a vacation is.. I tell family and friends the same thing... I'm basically unavailable for the next 2-3 weeks... not to contact me unless there's a real emergency.

 

.

[antsp]

I opened and managed the most expensive restaurant in America for several years.

We built the restaurant for $1.2 million.

We were fully booked for several years in advance.

Average check for dinner for 2 was $800 - without wine.

The restaurant never once made a profit.

Luckily the owners didn't need a profit. They used the restaurant as a showcase to attract investors. And they had huge egos that made them want to have the highest rated and most expensive restaurant in America.

 

By comparison, the Crown Grill cost around $5 million to build and install.

Building a restaurant on a ship is far more challenging - and far more expensive - than one on land.

Forgetting about food costs and labor costs, how many passengers need to pay $25 to cover the $5 million construction cost?

200,000

Crown Grill serves an average of 100 people per night.

It will take them 2,000 nights or 5.48 years just to pay off the construction costs.

 

But then, Princess pays around $21 per pound for the steaks they serve there.

Many of the steaks they serve are over 1 pound.

Just the main course at Crown Grill costs Princess more than the $25 you pay to eat the entire meal. But wait, Princess actually budgets an additional $15 or so from your daily cruise fare to pay for all the meals you eat onboard every day. So if they take $5 or $10 of that money and add it to the $25 you paid for the entire meal, they might be able to cover the actual cost of the food you eat in that outlet. No profit of course, but at least they cover the cost of the food.

 

But if they use that food cost money to cover the cost of the food, how are they going to pay for the $5 million construction costs?

The answer is, "They are not".

And that is why Princess loses money every time you eat in the Crown Grill.

 

 

So why operate it then, i cannot believe they loose money

[Loonbeam]

Your math makes sense to me, although I am pondering one bit. $5 million sounds a little high given the space to build in that it pretty much has to be used for something, so a better metric might be incremental cost, i.e. how much more does it costs for the Crown Grill lets say as opposed to another bar or dance venue. The answer I am pretty sure is quite high, but maybe not $5 million. Even so, your math still holds as you have to factor in that there is no limit on the amount of food that can be ordered when you are there (one small offset is diners may be willing to purchase higher end wines,etc due to the perception of a 'fancier' meal. Also, I really hope your estimate of $21 per pound is high or they need a new purchaser, or at least it includes the cost of getting that quality product to the ship.

 

I always assumed the specialty restaurants operated at a break even average food/labor cost over MDR, and the facilities cost was folded into the entire ship build cost, which is amortized over the fares.

 

To the person who asked why the ship's bother? It's about image. Specialty restaurants allow them to offer glamorous 'upscale' dining options while covering at least some of the enhanced food costs that go with it.

I opened and managed the most expensive restaurant in America for several years.

We built the restaurant for $1.2 million.

We were fully booked for several years in advance.

Average check for dinner for 2 was $800 - without wine.

The restaurant never once made a profit.

Luckily the owners didn't need a profit. They used the restaurant as a showcase to attract investors. And they had huge egos that made them want to have the highest rated and most expensive restaurant in America.

 

By comparison, the Crown Grill cost around $5 million to build and install.

Building a restaurant on a ship is far more challenging - and far more expensive - than one on land.

Forgetting about food costs and labor costs, how many passengers need to pay $25 to cover the $5 million construction cost?

200,000

Crown Grill serves an average of 100 people per night.

It will take them 2,000 nights or 5.48 years just to pay off the construction costs.

 

But then, Princess pays around $21 per pound for the steaks they serve there.

Many of the steaks they serve are over 1 pound.

Just the main course at Crown Grill costs Princess more than the $25 you pay to eat the entire meal. But wait, Princess actually budgets an additional $15 or so from your daily cruise fare to pay for all the meals you eat onboard every day. So if they take $5 or $10 of that money and add it to the $25 you paid for the entire meal, they might be able to cover the actual cost of the food you eat in that outlet. No profit of course, but at least they cover the cost of the food.

 

But if they use that food cost money to cover the cost of the food, how are they going to pay for the $5 million construction costs?

The answer is, "They are not".

And that is why Princess loses money every time you eat in the Crown Grill.

[Loonbeam]

I answered this in another post, but restaurants and retail do this all the time. It's called a loss leader. Offer a product under cost to make the entire operation more attractive.

 

McDonalds loses money on every dollar burger they sell. But they make it up on drinks, or if you decide to order the angus burger.

 

The key is not to look at profitability of one unit, but the entire line. The bean counters have determined that the image/lure provided by specialty dining is either a competitive need or brings enough demand to offset the loss. For example, its been noted that mac and cheese and burgers are now on the menu. While I am sure its partly cost effective, those are also a selling tool for new cruisers who may be a little apprehensive about 'fancy' food and like to have something 'comforting' on the menu. But having the steakhouse option says to cruisers who want a more upscale meal "for a price far less than you would pay at home, you can have a premium steak'.

 

One thing I think its time to remind people. Cruise critic members are a relatively small portion of the cruising public. Marketers look at the whole picture. What may not make sense to the subset here may make a lot of sense when reflected out on the larger population.

 

Then why even put in the restaurants to begin with? To take up space? Obviously you have never run a restaurant. They are not loosing money.

[waltd]

Interesting reading

Thanks

[Lynniepoo]

DH and I have been cruising exclusively with Princess and next April will be our 4th cruise with them.

 

Our last cruise was to Europe (Med) and we noticed a big difference from our last cruises. For one, the purser's desk was a hot mess. We were promised an upgraded cabin that we never got (long story, but it did happen) and we went back to the purser's desk 3 times trying to fix it. The people were not very knowledgeable and almost rude on one occasion. They were also quite disinterested in helping us. When we finally got back stateside we filed a complaint with customer service and they finally admitted that we were supposed to receive an upgrade...then blamed the mistake on our TA. The point of this being we were treated quite poorly.

 

We also felt that we were almost harassed by staff trying to sell us "stuff." I went to the spa a few times and the rabid sales pitch was a huge turnoff. I want to relax, not have my guard up to ward off sales pitches.

 

Honestly, I don't mind paying for what I use. But I do want to enjoy what I pay for, and we didn't enjoy the cruise as much. If that repeats, I'm not sure we will continue cruising. I'm not fighting with anyone, just offering my opinion. ;)

[BruceMuzz]

So why operate it then, i cannot believe they loose money

 

Do you ever watch "Movies Under the Stars" on Princess Ships?

The screen and the structure around it cost $2 Million.

The sound system was nearly $500,000.

 

Why would they spend that money?

I rarely see more than a few dozen people out there even watching it.

Do you think they will sell enough candy bars and drinks out there to ever justify this huge investment? Of course not.

You can believe thay are losing money on it. Lot's of money.

So why operate it then?

 

Would very many people say,"I'm not booking a cabin on that ship because they don't have movies under the stars"? Probably not.

 

Princess wants to have the bragging rights to say their ships have something that most other cruise lines do not have.

[Loonbeam]

One minor note for clarification - the Spas are not operated by Princess, they rent out the space and crew accommodations to a private company. Power selling in there has been a problem for ages, but seems to have spiked recently.

 

DH and I have been cruising exclusively with Princess and next April will be our 4th cruise with them.

 

Our last cruise was to Europe (Med) and we noticed a big difference from our last cruises. For one, the purser's desk was a hot mess. We were promised an upgraded cabin that we never got (long story, but it did happen) and we went back to the purser's desk 3 times trying to fix it. The people were not very knowledgeable and almost rude on one occasion. They were also quite disinterested in helping us. When we finally got back stateside we filed a complaint with customer service and they finally admitted that we were supposed to receive an upgrade...then blamed the mistake on our TA. The point of this being we were treated quite poorly.

 

We also felt that we were almost harassed by staff trying to sell us "stuff." I went to the spa a few times and the rabid sales pitch was a huge turnoff. I want to relax, not have my guard up to ward off sales pitches.

 

Honestly, I don't mind paying for what I use. But I do want to enjoy what I pay for, and we didn't enjoy the cruise as much. If that repeats, I'm not sure we will continue cruising. I'm not fighting with anyone, just offering my opinion. ;)

[Lynniepoo]

One minor note for clarification - the Spas are not operated by Princess, they rent out the space and crew accommodations to a private company. Power selling in there has been a problem for ages, but seems to have spiked recently.

 

Thank you Loonbeam, I stand corrected on that part. But honestly, it could have been applied to multiple parts of the ship. Constant pushes to buy health remedies in the gym, specialty drinks and coffee cards, etc. It was worse than I ever remembered.

 

I would also say that it would behoove Princess to fix this problem. I know the spa is upcharging by a gazillion but I'm willing to pay for a treatment - until the time is ruined by having to say "no" a million times.

[Loonbeam]

Our approach has been when we book something, to start off the session with 'I know its part of your responsibility, but we'd prefer to avoid the sales pitch. If we like something we'll ask.' It works about 90 percent of the time..

 

Thank you Loonbeam, I stand corrected on that part. But honestly, it could have been applied to multiple parts of the ship. Constant pushes to buy health remedies in the gym, specialty drinks and coffee cards, etc. It was worse than I ever remembered.

 

I would also say that it would behoove Princess to fix this problem. I know the spa is upcharging by a gazillion but I'm willing to pay for a treatment - until the time is ruined by having to say "no" a million times.

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

May be I was just lucky, but on my last cruise I had to ask for a coffee card, and a soda sticker,

 

OK a photo person did come round on formal night, but a quick headed movement and they knew I did not require there service,

 

thought overall very little to no selling,

 

yours Shogun

[pablo222]

This is just another cost cutting ploy that the public has not figured out as yet.

Princess loses money every time you buy entrance to the Crown Grill or Sabatinis.

The fewer meals they sell, the less money they lose.

 

That's interesting Bruce. The head waiter at the door of the crown

grill told me that they only seated 20 people because that was all

the kitchen could serve.

 

But your reason seems more believable. Particularly as there seemed

to be no limit on the number of officers and staff that could be seated.

[pablo222]

How about if we stop repeating speculative stuff here on CC?

 

 

But, what would that leave???

[capriccio]

Our approach has been when we book something, to start off the session with 'I know its part of your responsibility, but we'd prefer to avoid the sales pitch. If we like something we'll ask.' It works about 90 percent of the time..

 

I have done the same thing since my first Princess cruise in 2007. Being firm but polite has worked for me.

[caribill]

Our approach has been when we book something, to start off the session with 'I know its part of your responsibility, but we'd prefer to avoid the sales pitch. If we like something we'll ask.' It works about 90 percent of the time..

 

What works 100% of the time is to say at the start that you will be paying a tip for the service, but will subtract $5 from it each time a sales pitch is made.

[caribill]

But if they use that food cost money to cover the cost of the food, how are they going to pay for the $5 million construction costs?

The answer is, "They are not".

And that is why Princess loses money every time you eat in the Crown Grill.

 

Remember that the introduction of the specialty restaurants was also met with declining quality of food in the regular dining rooms. (When was the last time you had a great steak in a Princess dining room?)

 

So even through they may lose a little on every meal served in a specialty restaurant, they are saving much more money by serving a lesser quality of food to the 97% of the passengers who are not eating in the specialty restaurants.

[UpcountryTravelers]

This is just another cost cutting ploy that the public has not figured out as yet.

Princess loses money every time you buy entrance to the Crown Grill or Sabatinis.

The fewer meals they sell, the less money they lose.

 

I don't buy that one. If you calculate that a regular dinner in the MDR is equivalent to a $25 meal in a shore restaurant (and that is VERY conservative), then the specialty restaurants are getting the equivalent of $55 PER MEAL. Sorry, but it is very difficult to lose money at a rate like that.

[Loonbeam]

Equivalence doesn't equal cost. It's been reported from a variety of sources that the total average spend for Princess per DAY per passenger on all included food is probably in the $25-$30 range. Of course, part of the reason they can do that is the low labor costs. And that factors in a lot of lower cost ingredients in any given plating (not all cruisers will eat a premium item in every meal). In the case of the crown grill, every meal has a premium item.

 

As I noted above, Bruce's numbers seem very reasonable and when you consider operating costs I severely doubt that the specialty restaurants do any better than break even on food. But as I noted, they are also part of a marketing strategy, and I suspect contribute quite a bit to alcohol and specialty drink revenue at the bottom line. But they are not profit centers.

 

I don't buy that one. If you calculate that a regular dinner in the MDR is equivalent to a $25 meal in a shore restaurant (and that is VERY conservative), then the specialty restaurants are getting the equivalent of $55 PER MEAL. Sorry, but it is very difficult to lose money at a rate like that.