Fire on Carnival Triumph. No engines, running on emergency generators.

[ryano]

Careful; the bolded statement makes you a Carnival cheerleader to some on this thread.

 

Ive been called worse :p:D

[gampy]

Reading through this thread, there's a lot of "CCL can do no wrong" and "CCL is completely evil". Most everything is probably in the middle, with CCL of course concerned about the bottom line (companies have to be), and with real concern from the people that make up the corporation. Is everything in cruising rosy? No. Is everything in cruising above board and open? No.

 

My thoughts are with the passengers (and crew), and families of the passengers and crew.

[declansdad]

Very well said. The Carnival apologists and cheerleaders have been awful on this thread but I'm not surprised. They take their cues from the head cheerleader who is also the brand ambassador. Goes to show the level of education that we're dealing with. Sad.:(

 

 

Really? That is just sad.

[MrPete]

Also from MSNBC Video "The hotels here are filled with Family members who didn't want to wait, limiting availability to the cruise line"

 

Wouldn't the other family members just join them in the same room?

[remharri]

The whole Mobile vs Progreso thing is still an issue, to me. They initially broke down ~150 miles from Progreso. They drifted 90 miles north before the tugs were ready to tow, meaning they were ~240 miles from Progreso. By my rough calculation, it's ~630 miles from Progreso to Mobile, meaning if they were ~240 miles from Progreso at that point, they were at least 390 miles from Mobile. This doesn't add up with Carnival's claim that triumph was "equidistant" from mobile and Progreso. Couple that with the storm front they've encountered which has slowed them down, and it looks to me that Carnival has extended this by at least a day or two vs what it would have been had they gone to Progreso.

 

Mobile is certainly simpler and cheaper from the perspective of getting the passengers home, but I hope that wasn't the driving concern.

 

Either way, that was about the worst possible place in the entire Caribbean/Gulf basin to break down.

 

There is a dry dock in Mobile I do believe, they probably said lets just take it there that way it's cheaper for us. Who knows....

[MrPete]

Reading through this thread, there's a lot of "CCL can do no wrong" and "CCL is completely evil". Most everything is probably in the middle, with CCL of course concerned about the bottom line (companies have to be), and with real concern from the people that make up the corporation. Is everything in cruising rosy? No. Is everything in cruising above board and open? No.

 

My thoughts are with the passengers (and crew), and families of the passengers and crew.

 

Right? Shouldn't it be ALL about the passengers?

[Kempa]

The whole Mobile vs Progreso thing is still an issue, to me. They initially broke down ~150 miles from Progreso. They drifted 90 miles north before the tugs were ready to tow, meaning they were ~240 miles from Progreso. By my rough calculation, it's ~630 miles from Progreso to Mobile, meaning if they were ~240 miles from Progreso at that point, they were at least 390 miles from Mobile. This doesn't add up with Carnival's claim that triumph was "equidistant" from mobile and Progreso. Couple that with the storm front they've encountered which has slowed them down, and it looks to me that Carnival has extended this by at least a day or two vs what it would have been had they gone to Progreso.

 

Mobile is certainly simpler and cheaper from the perspective of getting the passengers home, but I hope that wasn't the driving concern.

 

Either way, that was about the worst possible place in the entire Caribbean/Gulf basin to break down.

 

I believe that they use nautical miles. Progreso to Mobile is approximately 550 nm. If they were 240 nm from Progreso, they were close to being equidistant. If you consider that the Loop Current runs clockwise in the Gulf of Mexico, the vessel might have been physically closer to Progreso, but towing it there could take longer than Mobile. There were reports that the ship drifted 90 mile northward in one day until the tugs arrived. This seems to validate the decision to tow to Mobile instead of Progreso.

[ducklite]

One note on the hotels. Google searching around the port of Mobile indicates while there may be many hotels, most of them seem to be fairly small (Holiday Inns and the like) that typically have 100-200 rooms each. Downtown Mobile has a few larger ones. If you assume 50 percent occupancy, that means you would need between 15-30 hotels.

 

New Orleans has at least a couple of large convention grade hotels that I am aware of near the convention center with much higher room counts.

 

Logistically, it makes a lot more sense to try to make arrangements with a couple of large hotels and if available use the convention center as an operations hub.

 

The downside is that it's a 2 hour ride to New Orleans.

 

Can I say cost isn't a factor? No. But is it the main factor? Probably not. Carnival has done some stupid things already but they know how bad that would look when it got out. Now, if it turns out they used 30 small hotels, I retract my assumption.

 

I have no doubt that cost is a major factor. They have contracts in place with hotels in NOLA, but since they pulled out of Mobile, they wouldn't have contracted rates in that city.

[truecruiser]

Part of the latest MSNBC article, key takeaway is they are apparently in phone range.. Second key, less than 2 dozen public toilets were working.

 

"

“Like Katrina in the Dome, except it’s afloat,” Jamie Baker told TODAY on Thursday in a telephone interview from aboard the ship.

She said that there were lines of four hours for food — meals that are sometimes no more than a tomato slice on bread — and that passengers have to use vanity trash cans for toilets, emptying the contents into bags in the hall.

Baker said she saw one woman pass out. She also said she and her friends slept with life vests one night because the ship was listing and they feared that it would capsize.

“Pipes are busting, I know the sewer is backing up, and water is in the cabins, and it’s just a nightmare,” she said.

Carnival has disputed passenger accounts and said that crews are doing the best they can, although Carnival has confirmed that fewer than two dozen public toilets are working. Baker told TODAY that the crew has been “phenomenal.”"

 

How/why/how can pipes be busting? Isn't nothing, or very little running? or is it the few running lines which are busting over the load? (all they need now is localized flooding)

 

Interesting that this article mentions free liquor. Were bars open at first?

 

They did report free warm beer wine and soda after they got underway with the tow. Prior to that all was cut off and dry.

[Jumbiecruiser]

From Today - the latest first hand report

 

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/02/14/passengers-sleeping-with-life-vests-on-fearing-cruise-ship-will-tip-over/

 

Speaking by phone to NBC’s “Today” show Thursday morning, passenger Jamie Baker said conditions on the ship were “extremely terrible.” There has been no electricity and few working toilets, she said.

 

Baker also described having to use plastic bags to go to the bathroom and wait in line for hours to get food and once saw a woman pass out line.

 

“It’s just a nightmare,” she said.

 

Baker said she and her friends slept with their life vests one night because the ship was listing and they feared it would tip over.

 

Vivian Tilley, whose sister, Renee Shanar, is on the ship, said Shanar, of Houston, told her the cabins were hot and smelled like smoke from the engine fire, forcing passengers to stay on the deck. She also said people were getting sick.

 

 

But the Carnival apologists on this board will call those people liars as they have done to others on this board.

[Aquahound]

The whole Mobile vs Progreso thing is still an issue, to me. They initially broke down ~150 miles from Progreso. They drifted 90 miles north before the tugs were ready to tow, meaning they were ~240 miles from Progreso. By my rough calculation, it's ~630 miles from Progreso to Mobile, meaning if they were ~240 miles from Progreso at that point, they were at least 390 miles from Mobile. This doesn't add up with Carnival's claim that triumph was "equidistant" from mobile and Progreso. Couple that with the storm front they've encountered which has slowed them down, and it looks to me that Carnival has extended this by at least a day or two vs what it would have been had they gone to Progreso.

 

The Loop Current in the central Gulf runs north. Triumph was already drifting north at 3 knots. The current worked in their favor with a northward tow.

[Loonbeam]

NBC: 'The majority of passengers have apparently chosen buses back to texas immediately' - Paraphrased.

 

Passenger Interview (typing as fast as possible so may not be literal):

 

'Food is very sporadic, sometimes they have burgers you have to wait in line for 4 hours, sometimes by the time you get to the end of the line they have nothing left.'

 

'There have not been days when we got nothing to eat, but sometimes it's just bread and maybe tomato left'

 

'The crew has been phenomenal, but the leadership...'

 

'High Seas'. 45 degree angle was quoted...

 

Their cabin toilet worked one hour out of one day, they were using to room trashcans with bags, transferred to bigger bags.

 

"Extreme Conditions"

[skyeman27]

one last thought.

 

 

I can only hope that you mean it...

[ducklite]

I feel for the crew ...:rolleyes:

 

I haven't seen a single person say that they don't think that the crew is suffering as badly as not worse than the passengers and that they feel very badly for them.

[RuthlessBoss]

fox news right now

[FSUNole]

I really appreciate the two of you sharing your knowledge so patiently and repeatedly. I wish there was a way for CC to mark your posts as *expert* so people would know what to read and believe!

 

Translation: Your made up information supports my preconceived opinion so I choose to take what you say as expert, factual information.

 

This is a mess for Carnival and those folks on board... no amount of cheerleading can change that. Family members on shore who spoke to their loved ones on board have already been called liars. I can't wait for the venom that will be wielded against the actual passengers when they start telling their stories first hand.

[MrPete]

The mothers are being interviewed on FNC right now.

[BecciBoo]

I find it interesting that Marinetraffic dot com show several CCL ships and their locations at the moment, but Triumph is suspiciously absent from the map???:confused: You'd think they'd know exactly where she is.

BTW Cindy, I'd trust what Paul says pretty much without question, he works in the maritime industry.

[cruiseflyer38]

This one looks out over Mobile Bay. Don't know if it will show anything passing or not. It can be controlled by the user, so maybe we can zoom in if something is within sight.

 

It will be interesting to see how many ambulances are waiting at the dock.

[Jumbiecruiser]

I'm not sure that many will "trust" anything CCL says about the seaworthy-ness of one of their ships for a long time to come. They seem to be proving this with no help from anyone else.

 

 

You're wrong with that statement. We have plenty right here on this board who feel that the cruise line can do no wrong. Carnival will have the brand ambassador proclaim that Carnival has a brilliant plan to insure that all ships are safe and nothing like this will happen again. Now on the other hand those with good ole common sense will not fall for this propaganda.;)

[dockmaster]

 

BTW, most cruise ships are designed to heel 45 degrees without capsizing and that's straight from the Captain of one. And here's a heel meter you can see the degrees on...no way they'd be towing a ship on that much of a heel, she wouldn't move and would be flooding! As was said before...

 

 

ok lets get nautical!!! .....an instrument to measure that list or pitch and roll is called a clinometer, lol

[FSUNole]

NBC: 'The majority of passengers have apparently chosen buses back to texas immediately' - Paraphrased.

 

Passenger Interview (typing as fast as possible so may not be literal):

 

'Food is very sporadic, sometimes they have burgers you have to wait in line for 4 hours, sometimes by the time you get to the end of the line they have nothing left.'

 

'There have not been days when we got nothing to eat, but sometimes it's just bread and maybe tomato left'

 

'The crew has been phenomenal, but the leadership...'

 

'High Seas'. 45 degree angle was quoted...

 

Their cabin toilet worked one hour out of one day, they were using to room trashcans with bags, transferred to bigger bags.

 

"Extreme Conditions"

 

Wow, I guess the 45 degree thing happened last night during the storm. Yikes... Those ships really are like floating corks with no/limited stabilizer...

[Half Pint]

Also from MSNBC Video "The hotels here are filled with Family members who didn't want to wait, limiting availability to the cruise line"

 

According to the Mayor, Mobile has 7,000 hotel rooms. I really don't think family members and media are taking up even a quarter of those rooms.

[mainelycruising]

I find it interesting that Marinetraffic dot com show several CCL ships and their locations at the moment, but Triumph is suspiciously absent from the map???:confused: You'd think they'd know exactly where she is.

 

BTW Cindy, I'd trust what Paul says pretty much without question, he works in the maritime industry.

 

Perhaps whatever signal (sea GPS) is out of service? It was showing the other day, before the tugs arrived.

[Loonbeam]

Yes, but that means the room is not available for the cruise line to book.

 

I don't doubt the contracts in NOLA were a factor, but not just on rates, having existing blocks with hotels allows them to claim more rooms quickly.

 

Doing my research, I think arranging 1500 rooms in Mobile would have been technically possible, just difficult. Mobile doesn't even seem to have a centralized convention booking office that can help, NOLA does.

Wouldn't the other family members just join them in the same room?