More days in Rio or Buenos Aires

[A Knitter]

I have the world's worst sense of direction so I have to qualify my answer with that caveat. I have a good view of Corcovado from my bedroom window so I would think any hotel in Leblon or Ipanema would have a view of it if you were on a floor above the rooftops of neighboring buildings. Not sure about all of Copacabana, but they would better view Sugarloaf. If you want to try a place other than the Palace, consider the Marina in Leblon, the Marriott or Sofitel in Copacabana.

 

Thank You. Will check it out. :)

[globevest]

I have been following this thread as I enjoy Rio and BA but recognize the need to be carefull. I don't expect cruise ship passengers to be hopping on and off mini buses but you never know. Anyway I have just read this current news report.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/01/world/americas/brazil-tourist-rape/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[pmacher61]

I have been following this thread as I enjoy Rio and BA but recognize the need to be carefull. I don't expect cruise ship passengers to be hopping on and off mini buses but you never know. Anyway I have just read this current news report.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/01/world/americas/brazil-tourist-rape/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

I saw that headline as I sat in my bank today waiting interminably for a high value customer attendant to free up (Stay away from the banks in Brasil. They are oppressive and inefficient).

These minibuses run along the main beach drag of Rio and many of them go to the Vidigal or Rocinha favelas. My Brasilian wife has steadfastly and vehemently refused to allow me to ride on them even though it's a straight shot along the main beach drag to our corner. She says they are dangerous and the drivers are loco. I guess she was right. This tragedy could have occurred in any city around the world. Lowlifes exist in every capitol city, but stay off the minibuses.

Edited April 1, 2013 by pmacher61

[globevest]

"This tragedy could have occurred in any city around the world"

 

Pmarcher61. Unfortunately you are correct.... a sad position. I visited Petrobras in Rio for years in the 1980's and 90's and the situation was somewhat better then. I hope they are able to improve matters by the Olympics. Rio has so much to offer.

[Hawaiidan]

"This tragedy could have occurred in any city around the world"

 

Pmarcher61. Unfortunately you are correct.... a sad position. I visited Petrobras in Rio for years in the 1980's and 90's and the situation was somewhat better then. I hope they are able to improve matters by the Olympics. Rio has so much to offer.

 

Technically yes any crime can happen anywhere. However what disturbs me is the frequency on Rio and Buenos Aires.

Its like saying you can get bit by a mosquito almost anywhere, but in some places you can get bit by thousands.

I worked for some time in public safety in some big metros with bad areas and small bergs and never have I seen the level of bad guys as in Rio and Buenos A....its on a whole different level from any place I have ever seen or visited in 40 years!

When it worries me that's a considerable statement

There are plenty of great places in Brazil and Argentina but not in the metro areas...

[pmacher61]

Technically yes any crime can happen anywhere. However what disturbs me is the frequency on Rio and Buenos Aires.

Its like saying you can get bit by a mosquito almost anywhere, but in some places you can get bit by thousands.

I worked for some time in public safety in some big metros with bad areas and small bergs and never have I seen the level of bad guys as in Rio and Buenos A....its on a whole different level from any place I have ever seen or visited in 40 years!

When it worries me that's a considerable statement

There are plenty of great places in Brazil and Argentina but not in the metro areas...

I respect anyone who has been in harms way even on one occasion let alone many times for the benefit of me and my countrymen, but that doesn't mean I can't challenge your statements. :)

You make some pretty sweeping assertions. Do you have statistics, preferably per capita stats, to support your assertion that crime in Rio or Bs As is greater than any other place you have visited in 40 years? Furthermore, would those stats distinguish between crime in the favelas or the northern zone vs crime in touristic zona sul. Are your assertions based upon anecdotal evidence and/or just personal observation? How familiar are you with capitol cities around the world? Spent much time in LA, Detroit, Newark, Philadelphia, Houston, Barcelona, Cali, Mexico City?

 

The level of street crime in Rio is exaggerated. Not that it doesn't exist, just that it has been sensationalized primarily because of the favelas and the narco-trafficantes that heretofore controlled them. Incidentally, the so-called pacification of favelas is working. Resident police are eliminating the death grip that the drug lords have had on favela life. Progress is being made, slowly for sure, but things are definitely changing in Rio for the better.

Unfortunately, my take on Bs As is just the opposite. Bs As used to be a relatively safe city to walk around in at all hours of the night except in the very worst neighborhoods. Street safety is worsening owing to a general financial deterioration of the working class and a liberal immigration policy that encourages very poor people to live in dilapidated "villas" adjacent to posh neighborhoods. The poverty-driven malaise existing in these Argentine analogs of Rio's favelas stimulates drug use which, in turn, induces crime. As we know by reading the news, Argentina's financial condition is deteriorating rapidly and things are likely to get worse before they get better. Nevertheless, I would not be qualified to state that there are reliable statistics to prove that crime is more rampant in Bs As than in any other major No/So American metropolis.

The bottom line, which is oft repeated on the travel forums, is that if one exercises common sense and street smarts the chances of becoming a victim are not much greater in Rio or Bs As than they would be in any other touristic metropolis.

Edited April 1, 2013 by pmacher61

[beachchairs2]

as you say this may all be overblown, but the canadian govt has issued a warning against visiting brazil...with a warning like that in place, our insurace will be nul and void in this area, should anything occur...

 

something to think about....

[beachchairs2]

correction rio not brazil...

[surfyachtie]

http://smartraveller.gov.au/zw-cgi/view/Advice/Brazil

 

Same here

[Wendy The Wanderer]

as you say this may all be overblown, but the canadian govt has issued a warning against visiting brazil...with a warning like that in place, our insurace will be nul and void in this area, should anything occur...

 

something to think about....

 

Do you have a link to this warning? All I can find is this general one:

 

http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/brazil

 

which simply says:

 

BRAZIL - Exercise a high degree of caution

 

There is no nationwide advisory in effect for Brazil. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to high crime rates and regular incidents of gang-related and other violence.

[Hawaiidan]

I respect anyone who has been in harms way even on one occasion let alone many times for the benefit of me and my countrymen, but that doesn't mean I can't challenge your statements. :)

Are your assertions based upon anecdotal evidence and/or just personal observation? How familiar are you with capitol cities around the world? Spent much time in LA, Detroit, Newark, Philadelphia, Houston, Barcelona, Cali, Mexico City?

 

I can understand you point of view, I Spent 20+ years in LA and trough 2 riots and everything but men from mars and a plague of frogs, worked too in Houston, Chicago, and Newark and NY city, DC and Oh London, and Birmingham UK briefly. with local, state and federal professionals.

Visited all others mentioned except Cali ( which I think with Bogota) are the most along with Lagos, Islamabad.. My opinions are based on personal observations and experiences in the last 60 days with my boots on the ground in South America ( visited Buenos Aires 2 times in a month); conversations with locals; conversations with visitors.

Too I may see things differently too as influenced by my past experiences. and ignorance as well as familiarity can breed indifference.

 

There is a formula that is in biology that if you see X# of species in an area you can determine the extent of population of that species. The FBI has similar techniques of projecting and analyzing criminal activities of a region and area in order to allocate resources. If it walks like a duck chances are its a duck and birds of a feather flock together.

 

This is not to say the cities were a bad place always. Nor is it to say one bad apple ruins the whole lot. Once out of the cities I felt totally at ease and enjoyed myself. But in the metros areas many times I was seriously worried... but again that's me.

 

However, in the present they are on a slide as sort of like Newark took in the 70's. My opinion; that when you spend more time looking over your shoulder than enjoying your self that is not good. If anything I think the situation is underplayed by the local tourist boards. The recent Canadian government warning to stay out of Rio, is a case in point. It is a ticking time bomb.

 

Ignoring a coming storm by looking at the past good weather can be dangerous.:o At least don't go care free into the storm.

[beachchairs2]

very interesting...thank you...

 

I would not cancel the cruise...this is for nov, 2014...they have to do something before the olympics....

 

but if the situation worsens, or even stays the same, I would just not get off the ship...but what a shame...to be in rio and not be able to enjoy it...

 

perhaps Oceania will change the port ....

 

also makes you feel that you should do only ships tours and not venture out on your own...

 

as for the canadian site, it had almost the same warning as the one posted here....

[pmacher61]

very interesting...thank you...

I would not cancel the cruise...this is for nov, 2014...they have to do something before the olympics....

but if the situation worsens, or even stays the same, I would just not get off the ship...but what a shame...to be in rio and not be able to enjoy it...

perhaps Oceania will change the port ....

also makes you feel that you should do only ships tours and not venture out on your own...

as for the canadian site, it had almost the same warning as the one posted here....

I did not find the AU warning about travel to Brasil intelligently presented (not even distinguishing between areas of the country much less cities) or particularly off-putting. If the Canadian one is the same, then ditto for it.

To think one should not get off the ship if the situation (in Rio) stays the same is not only unwarranted but utterly absurd.

Edited April 2, 2013 by pmacher61

[pmacher61]

I can understand you point of view, I Spent 20+ years in LA and trough 2 riots and everything but men from mars and a plague of frogs, worked too in Houston, Chicago, and Newark and NY city, DC and Oh London, and Birmingham UK briefly. with local, state and federal professionals.

Visited all others mentioned except Cali ( which I think with Bogota) are the most along with Lagos, Islamabad.. My opinions are based on personal observations and experiences in the last 60 days with my boots on the ground in South America ( visited Buenos Aires 2 times in a month); conversations with locals; conversations with visitors.

Who you going to believe, me or your own eyes? However, it seems you have not spent a lot of time in Rio or BA. Your personal observations and anectdotal evidence is limited. I have lived in both place a pretty long time (writing from Leblon now). Neither of us has presented statistics. To exaggerate the current level of street crime in Rio to the point where someone actually becomes wary of disembarking the ship is flagrantly misleading. Rio is not particularly dangerous for normally cautious people going about town.

Edited April 2, 2013 by pmacher61

[Taxguy77]

My DIL is from there and just returned from a trip home to see her parents. She expressed dismay.

 

However, if you hire a guide and find out which money is counterfeit and which taxis not to take, there are wonderful sights as well as the falls and the wine country.

 

I felt more uneasy in Rio and was glad to be out of there. Private guide and all.

 

B.A. is a beautifujl city, but it is a city; You must protect yourself as if you were in NY!

Our friends and us had a wonderfujl time there, walking several blocks thru a mall and having lunch at a small restaurant.

No problems!

He and I tried to look like we were bodygauards, but the laughter that followed us seemed to indicate we didn't do too well. :(

Unlike two gentlemen outside of a bar/restaurant in Puerto Benus, Espana. They talked to ach other, looking all over, and carrying the cellphones for the ladies.

DW and I were enjoying a beer looking over a dock that had 3 ships (Private) over 100'. Down the street, they rented Ferrarys and Maseraties!.(sp).3

Didn't know I was that drunk! Hope you can figure out message.

Sorry!

/COLOR]

Edited April 2, 2013 by Taxguy77
drunck

[A Knitter]

I respect anyone who has been in harms way even on one occasion let alone many times for the benefit of me and my countrymen, but that doesn't mean I can't challenge your statements. :)

Are your assertions based upon anecdotal evidence and/or just personal observation? How familiar are you with capitol cities around the world? Spent much time in LA, Detroit, Newark, Philadelphia, Houston, Barcelona, Cali, Mexico City?

 

I can understand you point of view, I Spent 20+ years in LA and trough 2 riots and everything but men from mars and a plague of frogs, worked too in Houston, Chicago, and Newark and NY city, DC and Oh London, and Birmingham UK briefly. with local, state and federal professionals.

Visited all others mentioned except Cali ( which I think with Bogota) are the most along with Lagos, Islamabad.. My opinions are based on personal observations and experiences in the last 60 days with my boots on the ground in South America ( visited Buenos Aires 2 times in a month); conversations with locals; conversations with visitors.

Too I may see things differently too as influenced by my past experiences. and ignorance as well as familiarity can breed indifference.

 

There is a formula that is in biology that if you see X# of species in an area you can determine the extent of population of that species. The FBI has similar techniques of projecting and analyzing criminal activities of a region and area in order to allocate resources. If it walks like a duck chances are its a duck and birds of a feather flock together.

 

This is not to say the cities were a bad place always. Nor is it to say one bad apple ruins the whole lot. Once out of the cities I felt totally at ease and enjoyed myself. But in the metros areas many times I was seriously worried... but again that's me.

 

However, in the present they are on a slide as sort of like Newark took in the 70's. My opinion; that when you spend more time looking over your shoulder than enjoying your self that is not good. If anything I think the situation is underplayed by the local tourist boards. The recent Canadian government warning to stay out of Rio, is a case in point. It is a ticking time bomb.

 

Ignoring a coming storm by looking at the past good weather can be dangerous.:o At least don't go care free into the storm.

 

 

Misinformation breeds ignorance. Hawaiidan. You are certainly not the most traveled on this forum and certainly should not regard yourself as a "travel advisor". Born and raised in Chicago and my career in Los Angeles also in several riots ....but assigned to disperse those crowds in areas one would not expect violence. I too have been to the places you mentioned and not seen anything close to your descriptions. As all have suggested especially pmacher61, be vigilant and alert when traveling outside of your comfort zone. There are always travel advisory warnings as precautions but to make the comments as you have made clearly suggest your contempt for the World.

[along]

We just back from a cruise from Rio to BA over Christmas and we padded both sides by four days. Honestly, if you can do four in each that would be ideal. I think it depends on what you are into, though. We really loved Rio and hired a fantastic tour guide for two days and saw all the attractions. One night we into Lapa and went to a Samba party, and that was beyond fantastic and everyone was just as happy and fun as could be. We also visited a Favella (shanty town) which was interesting and went hang gliding. Plus lots of eating and a little time on the beach. The city is not NEARLY as bad as it's reputation makes it out to be. Not once did I feel threatened/worried, even in the Favella!

 

BA was great and we rented an apartment in Palermo Soho, not far from the subway and the trendiest party of town. We also had a guide for two days and saw *most* of the tourist spots, however there is much more to do in BA so don't expect to see it all. In addition we went to some markets, a (very late night) street party frequented by American and Canadian ex-pats. THAT was fun!!! Also, we saw a fantastic Tango dinner show. Again lots of eating.

 

The difference is kind of like South Beach (Rio) vs. Paris. Rio is very beach/outdoor/jungle centric, where BA is much more "urban" (though their greenspaces/parks are fantastic). Have fun whatever you decide to do!!!

 

Hi, this is my first post here so I apologize if I do anything amiss. We are also debating the days in Rio/Buenos Aires question, right now I am leaning towards 4 in Rio at the beginning and 3 in Rio at the end of our trip. I could also do 4 and 3 but need to decide soon!

 

Corpkid, could you provide detailed information about the tour guides you used in each place and also the apt in BA? Which areas are good to rent an apt in? You can respond to aglongani / at / gmail dot com if you prefer. Thanks!

[bitob]

Buenos Aires for sure. We could live there we love it so much. Truly the Paris of South America

[Mura]

My father was in Buenos Aires with Toscanini's NBC Symphony in 1938 and could never stop talking about how beautiful it was. We loved it ourselves when we spent several days there in 2002.

 

But it's hard to go wrong with either City -- they are both fascinating cities with much to see and do.

 

Mura

[corpkid]

Hi, this is my first post here so I apologize if I do anything amiss. We are also debating the days in Rio/Buenos Aires question, right now I am leaning towards 4 in Rio at the beginning and 3 in Rio at the end of our trip. I could also do 4 and 3 but need to decide soon!

 

Corpkid, could you provide detailed information about the tour guides you used in each place and also the apt in BA? Which areas are good to rent an apt in? You can respond to aglongani / at / gmail dot com if you prefer. Thanks!

 

Hi there... In Rio, we used a guide named Manu who comes highly recommended for a very comprehensive 2 day tour. His website is: http://www.cariocawayoflife.blogspot.com

 

I know he sells out fast, so don't delay on booking him. We stayed at the Sheraton Leblon which is nice, but a bit out of the way from the Ipenema and Copacabana hotspots a long walk away. I suggest you stay somewhere on the border of Leblon and Ipenema.

 

As for Buenos Aires, we used two Tours By Locals guides (one each day) who were expat college students. It was great because one was an economics major (BsAs's economy is interesting to say the least), and the other was a history major so we really got two very different perspectives. We also did semi-private tour of the Recoletta cemetary (not to be missed). I think we found that on Viator if I'm not mistaken.

 

As for where to stay in BsAs, we liked Palermo Soho. It's very trendy, safe, and lots of places to eat and shop. Also a fairly large expat community. We used airbnb.com to rent an apartment on the 20th floor of a brand new modern highrise. The views from the balcony were stunning, especially at sunset. We througholy enjoyed the apartment. This is the apartment we rented: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/66939

 

If you just filter by the Palermo neighborhood (and entire apartment vs. shared) you will find hundreds of cute apartments like this.

 

You can't go wrong either way as both are remarkable cities.

 

Hope that helps!

Edited January 28, 2016 by corpkid

[RJB]

Hi there... In Rio, we used a guide named Manu who comes highly recommended for a very comprehensive 2 day tour. His website is: http://www.cariocawayoflife.blogspot.com

 

I know he sells out fast, so don't delay on booking him. We stayed at the Sheraton Leblon which is nice, but a bit out of the way from the Ipenema and Copacabana hotspots a long walk away. I suggest you stay somewhere on the border of Leblon and Ipenema.

 

As for Buenos Aires, we used two Tours By Locals guides (one each day) who were expat college students. It was great because one was an economics major (BsAs's economy is interesting to say the least), and the other was a history major so we really got two very different perspectives. We also did semi-private tour of the Recoletta cemetary (not to be missed). I think we found that on Viator if I'm not mistaken.

 

As for where to stay in BsAs, we liked Palermo Soho. It's very trendy, safe, and lots of places to eat and shop. Also a fairly large expat community. We used airbnb.com to rent an apartment on the 20th floor of a brand new modern highrise. The views from the balcony were stunning, especially at sunset. We througholy enjoyed the apartment. This is the apartment we rented: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/66939

 

If you just filter by the Palermo neighborhood (and entire apartment vs. shared) you will find hundreds of cute apartments like this.

 

You can't go wrong either way as both are remarkable cities.

 

Hope that helps!

Zinka virus in Brazil? Seems to be the center of this outbreak. Is it safe to go there? Need to be careful. WHO is very concerned about this outbreak.

[azam71209]

We did the Oceania cruise last year BA to Rio. Stayed and extra 3 days in BA and 2 days at the Sheraton in Rio-free with a new Starwood credit card-but otherwise a bit out of the way.

 

BA was more interesting to us. Stayed at a small hotel near Recoleta cemetery. Walked everywhere and felt safe. We used local guides and went into more iffy neighborhoods during the day. Stayed away from public transportation.

 

We brought US cash and found the exchange rate at our hotel front desk was almost twice the official rate. You can do even better at cambios but risk counterfeit bills. Restaurants were also willing to take dollars at a much higher exchange rate that a credit card would give. Just say "if I give you dollars, what will this cost?" Everybody seems to really want dollars but the rate may vary from day to day.

 

Zika virus in Rio would worry me although it was probably there last year too. The favelas have minimal sanitation and when it rains, everything washes does the hill to the beaches-one morning after a rainstorm, it looked like there was confetti on the water. And this was the beach in front of the Sheraton!

[Mura]

Like Corpkid, we used Manu for two days of tours in Rio and he was wonderful. This was in December '13.

 

I have to say that somewhat later I saw some complaints where he'd bailed out on tours and provided a group with a substitute who was not satisfactory. Or at least NOT what they had expected. That wasn't our experience but it only seems fair to mention these complaints.

 

If you want to use him you DO have to book very early. In our case I first contacted him in January 2013 for early December 2013 tours.

 

Mura