Air-Business up grade

[Paulchili]

Even if given stuff free it still retains a purchase value in real dollars. If I got a Rolex for opening a credit card I would still regard it as having a worth of real value..... !

 

Oh, it has value all right - as I said it could be worth around $7000 in my illustrated case. I am not saying it has no value, I am saying that I didn't pay for it - there is a huge difference between those two statements.

The bank and the airline paid for it - a big thank you to them both :D

[YoHoHo]

Oh, it has value all right - as I said it could be worth around $7000 in my illustrated case. I am not saying it has no value, I am saying that I didn't pay for it - there is a huge difference between those two statements.

The bank and the airline paid for it - a big thank you to them both :D

The banks and airlines do not pay - we, consumers do. The CC companies just pass along some of the money they collect from merchant fees in marketing schemes and promotions. We are the source of the money. Every purchase we make has to cover the credit cards 'processing' fess. Some such as Amex premium cards have very high fees (to cover things like the $300 back from booking an O cruise). The merchant has to get that money from somewhere so higher prices as margins can only get so low.

 

The rewards are 'more free' to those who collect and use them. They are more costly for those who pay cash or debit cards and get no rewards

 

So collect the points and use the rewards while the schemes are still so rich. Merchants are objecting (how far they get is doubtful) to higher fees. Here in Canada we have far fewer rewards and perhaps as a result on average hold far far fewer cards than in the US. So the scheme does work in getting cards in the hands of consumers. How long it is beneficial to the marketer is likely related to how long the initial promo lasts and when the next great offer comes along.

 

So I agree the points are free, in that one paid nor more than they would have to make the purchase to get the point and I agree that they have real value so everyone is right.

 

But just just like O's free air, the points (the rewards) do cost someone real money.

[Paulchili]

Of course you are right - to some extent.

The banks buy the miles from airlines to induce us to open credit cards. Of course, they do not intend to pay for those miles from their own pockets. After all, the banks are not in the business of losing money (maybe the airlines are :)). They intend to get their money back and then some. Here is where we may not agree. They don't get it from the merchants but rather from unsavy/unfortunate customers. Statistically they know how many of these new customers that opened the accounts to get free miles will eventually carry balances on those accounts; and we know how much money the banks will make on those balances. They also know (statistically) how many of these poor "suckers" will eventually miss a payment - and we know what happens next. IMO, that is where they "recover" most of their costs for miles bought. I do not carry balances so I do not contribute to their piggy bank (i.e. I do not pay for these miles in this way).

Similarly, I don't believe that the merchants' costs are significantly impacted by these schemes. Rather their increase in cost of living and doing business rises continuously - mostly due to factors such as rise in cost of labor, materials, energy, real estate, etc, etc.

This has been a fact of life as long as we can remember - long, long before there was such a thing as FF programs or even long before these generous promotions appeared.

The cost of these miles must figure in somewhere but IMO these costs are minuscule in comparison to other economic factors discussed above.

As you said, I and others will enjoy these "gifts" while we can as they appear to be free as far as I can estimate and calculate in real cost to me.

Cheers :)

[ShopperfiendTO]

Hi,

 

For those who've elected the upgrade, I wonder if you could provide your experience on the following:

 

Q1: If you did not choose a deviation, is it the same flight as what would have been slotted for a non-upgrade? What I am wondering is if there is a risk that a passenger who buys the upgrade will be slotted perhaps a worse flight itinerary-wise than a passenger who didn't upgrade because that worse flight itinerary is the only one with the business class seat available (e.g., connecting through a longer overall flight or more connections/backtracking).

 

Q2: Can one do a deviation and an upgrade together, i.e., I want the upgrade for *this* itinerary?

 

Flying out of YYZ and trying to figure out what is the overall risk (e.g., YYZ to LHR, then LHR to IST or some other long route).

 

Thanks for any insight!

[JimandStan]

Hi,

 

For those who've elected the upgrade, I wonder if you could provide your experience on the following:

 

Q1: If you did not choose a deviation, is it the same flight as what would have been slotted for a non-upgrade? What I am wondering is if there is a risk that a passenger who buys the upgrade will be slotted perhaps a worse flight itinerary-wise than a passenger who didn't upgrade because that worse flight itinerary is the only one with the business class seat available (e.g., connecting through a longer overall flight or more connections/backtracking).

 

Q2: Can one do a deviation and an upgrade together, i.e., I want the upgrade for *this* itinerary?

 

Flying out of YYZ and trying to figure out what is the overall risk (e.g., YYZ to LHR, then LHR to IST or some other long route).

 

Thanks for any insight!

 

First things first, when you buy into a Deviation, you get to choose (within the bounds of the contracts which Oceania holds with the Airlines) which flights you are booked onto.

 

Unless Oceania has offered specific Business Class Fares in conjunction with YOUR CRUISE, then you must pay the Deviation Fee and specify that you require that an upgrade-able class of ticket be purchased on your behalf. This may not be less expensive than doing it on your own, but you should always let them price it out, as the Deviation Fee is not paid until you and Oceania AGREE on a flight.

 

If you do like their offer and accept it, then you will have already paid the (non refundable from this point on) Deviation Fee anyway; so you may as well choose the most convenient flight.

[LewiLewi]

That is a good choice Paul, to work-around the OPs issue. I've learned a lot about air from your posts and others on the Cruise Air board. While not a non-stop is does make that very long leg the 'business class' segment. Even if there was smallish air surcharge on top of the upgrade cost it might well be worth it. But then I am sure you can do better with some of your famous flyer points methods.

 

Just in reply to your 'btw'. I have taken both YVR -> FRA -> BCN and YVR->YYZ->BCN.

IMO YVR->FRA is much better because that whole segment is 'international', better everything on board. The other route via Toronto was a 4 1/2 (feels like 8) hour flight on A/C domestic with the ensuing sandwich surcharge, less amiable crew, etc. That is the only time I flown a 'non-polar' route flight and w/o a good reason will not do again.

 

The FRA->BCN is not unlike your MAD-BCN example. Though longer it is still less than the 4 1/2 (feels like 8) hour segment and is fine in economy (and nice scenery.)

 

Plus, at that point, at long last, the destination is just over the horizon. Seems like a 2 hour flight to the port is a lot quicker and more enjoyable than the same flight en-route home. I think Einstein had something to say on that.

How can I find the "cruise air" board that you referred to?

Thank you.

[PaulMCO]

How can I find the "cruise air" board that you referred to?

Thank you.

 

 

Try this:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=128

[Hawaiidan]

I was all set to use miles for a ticket back from a cruise... but just about fell out of my chair because I got a quote for a first class ticket, that was cheaper than regular economy!. Not only that but it was fully refundable whereas the coach ticket was not... Using miles I would have spent twice the value of the ticket...

There are some crazy deals.. and this was on United for a first business class sleeper suite.. non stop NY to Hawaii..... not on willy and bobs discount air:D

[PaulMCO]

I was all set to use miles for a ticket back from a cruise... but just about fell out of my chair because I got a quote for a first class ticket, that was cheaper than regular economy!. Not only that but it was fully refundable whereas the coach ticket was not... Using miles I would have spent twice the value of the ticket...

There are some crazy deals.. and this was on United for a first business class sleeper suite.. non stop NY to Hawaii..... not on willy and bobs discount air:D

 

 

Same here Dan, also on UA, for our next trip to Argentina (Silverseas Explorer).. No saver awards available but a cheap Business First down to Argentina. Sometimes it is worth to pay rather than use the valuable miles.

[ChatKat in Ca.]

Hi,

 

For those who've elected the upgrade, I wonder if you could provide your experience on the following:

 

Q1: If you did not choose a deviation, is it the same flight as what would have been slotted for a non-upgrade? What I am wondering is if there is a risk that a passenger who buys the upgrade will be slotted perhaps a worse flight itinerary-wise than a passenger who didn't upgrade because that worse flight itinerary is the only one with the business class seat available (e.g., connecting through a longer overall flight or more connections/backtracking).

 

Q2: Can one do a deviation and an upgrade together, i.e., I want the upgrade for *this* itinerary?

 

Flying out of YYZ and trying to figure out what is the overall risk (e.g., YYZ to LHR, then LHR to IST or some other long route).

 

Thanks for any insight!

 

Living in a hub city has advantages. I go online and find flights that I know have contracts from experience. I choose flights that are nonstop from my city to a point in Europe with connections. Pay the deviation fee and let my travel agent know which flights are acceptable to me on which days I want to travel. Oceania air dept is a bit more limited in choice than the Regent Air but same department. Has always worked for me. The fact that I am going Business Class or Coach actually works the same.

[Hawaiidan]

Same here Dan, also on UA, for our next trip to Argentina (Silverseas Explorer).. No saver awards available but a cheap Business First down to Argentina. Sometimes it is worth to pay rather than use the valuable miles.

 

Atleast you and I agree on that.... spending $2800 worth of miles for a $1500 ticket seemed insane. Milage earned including bonus for class and CC would cost me 5 cents a mile earned rather than the 3.5cent I usualy rely on to calc. Heck at the 5 cents per mile my $1500tx wouldhave cost me $4000..............

[LewiLewi]

Try this:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=128

Found it. Thank you.

[findacruise]

You were kidding about the luggage fee I hope when flying to LA and on to Papeete. When we flew Vancouver to LAX and on to Papeete, it was classified as an international flight so we did not have to pay luggage fees. We flew Air Canada and they normally charge for any flight that lands in the US.

 

This has been our experience, too. We have an upgrade on November 4 BCN t0 BCN cruise that Oceania offered. We wanted to make sure we got airline we wanted and connections so we paid deviation fee and after 3 tries got an agrreable touring. We are coach to Newark. But on our return, we are not i coach from DC to Ind. Just never know what they will book! Of course, by the time the flight happens United may change out the plane to a one class plane - they like to do that to the smaller airports like IND. But never have we had a problem with having to pay luggage fees if a part of our flight is in coach.

[ShopperfiendTO]

First things first, when you buy into a Deviation, you get to choose (within the bounds of the contracts which Oceania holds with the Airlines) which flights you are booked onto.

 

Unless Oceania has offered specific Business Class Fares in conjunction with YOUR CRUISE, then you must pay the Deviation Fee and specify that you require that an upgrade-able class of ticket be purchased on your behalf. This may not be less expensive than doing it on your own, but you should always let them price it out, as the Deviation Fee is not paid until you and Oceania AGREE on a flight.

 

If you do like their offer and accept it, then you will have already paid the (non refundable from this point on) Deviation Fee anyway; so you may as well choose the most convenient flight.

 

What I am asking about is the business class fare offer (I believe this is the title of the thread) and how it works.

 

Perhaps an example might make the questions I'm asking clearer.

 

Say I am on a cruise sailing out of the Athens port. The cruise has a business class fare offer.

 

I choose the business class offer.

 

I do not do a deviation.

 

 

Let's say that for this departure there are only three flights available when Oceania confims its purchase of seats:

1. non-stop flight from YYZ to Athens airport: however, at the time Oceania confirms with the airline its desire for seats on that flight, there no business class seats left but plenty of coach seats available,
   
2. connecting flight, YYZ to IST and then IST to Athens airport: both business class and coach seats available (longer "over the ocean" segment), and
   
3. connecting flight, YYZ to LHR and then LHR to Athens airport: both business class and coach seats available (shortest "over the ocean" segment).
   

When the flights are assigned 90 days before departure, what will my flight itinerary be?

 

The internal question within the question above is do I risk being stuck on #3 even though I would prefer to be on #1 in coach (without paying for the upgrade since I'm not getting it)? I am guessing O will not let me choose between the two and just assign #2 or #3.

 

A related question is if I do decide on deviation (say I ask for it early enough before the business class seats are sold out on #1), then wouldn't it just be the $150 pp fee without the fare differential since I've already paid for the upgrade through the promotion?

[JimandStan]

It's not a very complicated equation, provided that you look at the situation as a business person (i.e. without self serving blinders on).

 

If you book Oceania Air without the deviation then Oceania is committed to getting you to and from the ship in an expeditious manner, nothing more, nothing less.

 

As would any business, they will attempt to accomplish this at the lowest cost possible, given the parameters of the Airline Contracts which they hold when you are flying.

Predicting which flight they will book you on can become onerous, because many times the Published Airline Fares have no relation to the Fares which are offered to the Cruise Lines.

 

If you buy into the Business Class Upgrade, then the deal (once again) is that Oceania is committed to getting you "there and back" for the most reasonable fare, but in Business Class.

If you choose to deviate to a flight which costs more than that "best" fare, then you will be asked to make up that difference. If you deviate to a flight which costs the same or less, then there will be no additional charge.

[ShopperfiendTO]

It's not a very complicated equation, provided that you look at the situation as a business person (i.e. without self serving blinders on).

 

If you book Oceania Air without the deviation then Oceania is committed to getting you to and from the ship in an expeditious manner, nothing more, nothing less.

 

As would any business, they will attempt to accomplish this at the lowest cost possible, given the parameters of the Airline Contracts which they hold when you are flying.

Predicting which flight they will book you on can become onerous, because many times the Published Airline Fares have no relation to the Fares which are offered to the Cruise Lines.

 

If you buy into the Business Class Upgrade, then the deal (once again) is that Oceania is committed to getting you "there and back" for the most reasonable fare, but in Business Class.

If you choose to deviate to a flight which costs more than that "best" fare, then you will be asked to make up that difference. If you deviate to a flight which costs the same or less, then there will be no additional charge.

 

Thanks for your response.

 

So basically you're saying that the $800/$1000 business class upgrade per direction offer may be more than that (other than the deviation fees) if you want to pick which flight with business class you want to be on.

 

Also, what about the situation where there is a non-stop flight without business class seats available but with ecomony seats available? Since this situation won't be known until 90 days out when ticketed, it seems to be a risky proposition to take the upgrade offer for those who prefer non-stops to discounted business class with connections if the non-stop isn't otherwise an option (i.e., to be able to downgrade back to the non-stop flight in economy with full refund of the price paid for the upgrade).

[JimandStan]

So basically you're saying that the $800/$1000 business class upgrade per direction offer may be more than that (other than the deviation fees) if you want to pick which flight with business class you want to be on.

That is correct.

 

Also, what about the situation where there is a non-stop flight without business class seats available but with ecomony seats available? Since this situation won't be known until 90 days out when ticketed, it seems to be a risky proposition to take the upgrade offer for those who prefer non-stops to discounted business class with connections if the non-stop isn't otherwise an option (i.e., to be able to downgrade back to the non-stop flight in economy with full refund of the price paid for the upgrade).

 

LOL, once again you appear to be trying to take the sweater home from the store without paying for it, first.

 

If you want to have THAT LEVEL OF CONTROL over your flights, yet wish to travel under the Oceania Umbrella, then you'll need to pay the Deviation Fee.

 

It was an ingenious try, though ;)

[Hawaiidan]

In the recent past airlines are now charging way higher fares/ higher miles etc for non stop flights....

 

In some cases a coach seat to the same destination can cost 40 to 50% more if you select a non stop flight.:eek: They are the highest fares for the route.

 

After decades of air travel on long routes I have to say there is no way I would ever trade a business or first seat for a coach one.... There is only so much you can suck-up.:rolleyes: How long can you maintain your health and sanity, siting for 8+ hours in a 17 inch wide seat spaced 31 inches front to back, that reclines a whopping 2 inches?

[Hawaiidan]

That many times coach seats on non stops are selling for almost the same price as :cool: discount business class on a connecting series of flights.

[ShopperfiendTO]

That is correct.

 

 

 

LOL, once again you appear to be trying to take the sweater home from the store without paying for it, first.

 

If you want to have THAT LEVEL OF CONTROL over your flights, yet wish to travel under the Oceania Umbrella, then you'll need to pay the Deviation Fee.

 

It was an ingenious try, though ;)

 

Not sure what the part of your response I bolded means. This was the question I was trying to get answered all along.

 

I wasn't trying to game a system. To weigh my options, I just wanted to confirm that it is possible that a business class upgrade could be on a connecting flight when a non-stop flight might otherwise have been assigned had I chosen not to upgrade.

 

Thanks for your response which confirms this risk.:)

[JMBobB]

For our Baltic cruise in late July, we flew SAS non-stop SFO-CPH, but in tourist class. Used to fly both oceans mainly tourist a lot and could sleep most of it. BUT age gets us all - in the end. In this case, both moi and SWMbI were unable to really sleep and landed dead tired and cramped.

 

When I called SAS on arrival to ask to upgrade to business on our return flight(hint: SAS Customer Service doesn't work on weekends) they told me they couldn't handle upgrades but advised me to go on http://www.optiontown.com and put in our return flight for upgrade. This I did and the last night on the ship I got an e-mail notifying us we'd been successfully upgraded. Well worth every dime and about half what the upgrade would have cost us at the time of our original air reservations were made.

 

HAPPY flier!

 

JMBobB

 

B.S. The connecting flight from Stockholm to CPH couldn't be upgraded. It was a cattle car for everyone.