Obtaining a Chip & Pin Credit Card - My Experience

[Hlitner]

It is not more secure if it has the magnetic stripe. The reason I would like a true chip and pin card is convenience. Unmanned kiosks in Europe might only accept chip and pin. Not chip and signature. I have a chip and signature card and found two places that I could not use it. A ticket machine at a Vappareto stop in Venice and a ticket machine on the Barcelona Metro. It was no big deal though. I bought the tickets with Euros. But it seems odd that my chip card from Bank of America is not chip and pin, only chip and signature. I am not going to open another card account just to get chip and pin because it is rarely needed. My non chip cards and chip and signature cards were accepted everywhere important. I will wait the day my cards come with it.

 

Hmmm. I guess we have found your "everywhere important" not to work for us in Europe. I could give you a long list of places where we could not use a non chip/PIN card but just a few would be trying to buy a train ticket in Rotterdam, getting out of several parking garages/lots in Italy and France, and needing to buy gas at night in Italy when the only gas stations only worked with Chip/PIN cards (this is very common after hours in Europe). It has also become an issue on many European toll roads...although most of those do have a least one booth that will accept cash.

 

The worst situation happened at a high-end B&B in Bruge where the owner told us at check-in that he could no longer accept typical US Credit Cards as his new card reader machine (required to be used by his bank) only accepted Chip/PIN cards (we are not sure what it would have done with Chip/Signature. We had to max out our ATM cards for a couple of days to get enough cash to pay for that facility. And then the same thing happened in a top restaurant in Bruge where they would only accept a Chip/PIN card or cash.

 

Hank

Edited January 8, 2014 by Hlitner

[Wiltonian]

I'm not aware Chip & Pin debit cards exist. That's not to say that financial institutions in Europe are not moving in that direction.

 

Lew

 

They are the norm in the UK, where their introduction has had a significant impact on fraud.

 

Stuart

[-Lew-]

 

They are the norm in the UK, where their introduction has had a significant impact on fraud.

Interesting...are all ATMs in the UK being converted to accept only chip & pin debit cards? Hope they leave a few for mag strip toting Yanks to use. :rolleyes:

 

Hank...does your Andrews FCU debit card have a chip?

 

Lew

[Hlitner]

Interesting...are all ATMs in the UK being converted to accept only chip & pin debit cards? Hope they leave a few for mag strip toting Yanks to use. :rolleyes:

 

Hank...does your Andrews FCU debit card have a chip?

 

Lew

 

Lew, Their Debit Card (which is different then their Chip/PIN Global Trek Visa card) is a normal magnetic strip card with no chip. For what it's worth, we have never had a problem using magnetic strip Debit cards in European ATMs...but we have heard rumors that this might soon change. Their Debit card has no fees other then the standard 1% fee that is built into the exchange rate (this is done by Visa International who handles most foreign bank card transactions). For those curious, this means that you normally will get the wholesale current rate of exchange minus 1% on debit card withdrawals. We have found that this is the best deal for getting cash. However, through trial and error we have also discovered that using a CapitalOne Master Card (for charges) will actually result in a slightly better rate of exchange then getting cash with a debit card. CapitalOne still seems to have truly no fees of any kind on their foreign transactions...which we find very nice.

 

Hank

Edited January 8, 2014 by Hlitner

[-Lew-]

 

Lew, Their Debit Card (which is different then their Chip/PIN Global Trek Visa card) is a normal magnetic strip card with no chip. For what it's worth, we have never had a problem using magnetic strip Debit cards in European ATMs...but we have heard rumors that this might soon change.

Thank, Hank...

 

I guess I'll stick with my Cap1 debit card as my go to card for ATMs. I have a brokerage debit card as backup that I've never had to turn to.

 

If chip & pin debit cards become the norm in Europe, that will certainly force the hand of US banks. Customers traveling abroad will demand chip & pin cards in order to obtain cash.

 

And the beat goes on...

 

Lew

[GregnChris]

With all the problems caused by the Target card card breach in early December, I think that major US retail companies along with Visa/Master Card are going to be rethinking putting a chip onto credit cards. A properly implemented payment system using SmartCard technology (Chip on a CC) is not susceptible to the attack that struck Target.

 

What is important is that we, the customers, agitate enough to be sure that as the US moves to Chip based cards, they include the Chip & PIN feature and not just the Chip & Signature feature.

 

One other comment. While the PIN is matched to the information in the Chip and on the MagStripe, the PIN is not on the MagStripe in plain text. I do not believe that anyone (except maybe NSA) has the ability to extract the PIN from the MagStripe. If it was possible, then there would be no reason to require a PIN.

 

Greg

[Charles4515]

With all the problems caused by the Target card card breach in early December, I think that major US retail companies along with Visa/Master Card are going to be rethinking putting a chip onto credit cards. A properly implemented payment system using SmartCard technology (Chip on a CC) is not susceptible to the attack that struck Target.

 

What is important is that we, the customers, agitate enough to be sure that as the US moves to Chip based cards, they include the Chip & PIN feature and not just the Chip & Signature feature.

 

One other comment. While the PIN is matched to the information in the Chip and on the MagStripe, the PIN is not on the MagStripe in plain text. I do not believe that anyone (except maybe NSA) has the ability to extract the PIN from the MagStripe. If it was possible, then there would be no reason to require a PIN.

 

Greg

 

Somehow they clone the cards and get the pin on ATM Mag Stripe debit cards. I don't know the technical details.

 

The only customers that likely will agitate are those who are world travelers. None else would have much reason to think they want a Chip and Pin card.

 

Whatever security features are put in place will be defeated by the crooks. They always find a way. Chip and Pin has been exploited. The only reason I think we should have chip and pin cards in the US is that I think cards should be standardized world wide.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Charles4515

[Hlitner]

Thank, Hank...

 

I guess I'll stick with my Cap1 debit card as my go to card for ATMs. I have a brokerage debit card as backup that I've never had to turn to.

 

If chip & pin debit cards become the norm in Europe, that will certainly force the hand of US banks. Customers traveling abroad will demand chip & pin cards in order to obtain cash.

 

And the beat goes on...

 

Lew

 

LOL! We actually got that AFCU Debit card as a 2nd backup to our backup :). It also simplified making the Visa payments at Andrews since we can do it with a simple online transfer. Something else you might consider is we managed to set up a bank transfer routine with AFCU that allows me to simply go online and move money to AFCU from a different bank. It has all been a bit of a hassle, but I think you do understand the importance of all the backups and options when you take longer trips out of the country :)

 

Hank

[Charles4515]

I expect we will all be getting chip and pin cards in the US in light of the recent Target, Nieman Marcus and Michaels Crafts hacks. The credit card data was hacked from the POS terminals. Chip and Pin would not stop that but then the stolen numbers get sold to credit card cloners. Mag stripe cards are easily cloned. EMV cards that require a pin, much more difficult. According to an article I read as recently as December the card issuers were going to delay the 2015 date for chip cards in the US because of pressure from retailers who did not want to buy new terminals. Now major retailers want something done and so does congress. So the 2015 date is back on.

 

Today we have had a third retailer breached. Michaels Crafts. I expect there will be more. To restore faith in Credit Cards and Debit cards I think chip and pin cards will be issued.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Charles4515

[Hlitner]

I expect we will all be getting chip and pin cards in the US in light of the recent Target, Nieman Marcus and Michaels Crafts hacks. The credit card data was hacked from the POS terminals. Chip and Pin would not stop that but then the stolen numbers get sold to credit card cloners. Mag stripe cards are easily cloned. EMV cards that require a pin, much more difficult. According to an article I read as recently as December the card issuers were going to delay the 2015 date for chip cards in the US because of pressure from retailers who did not want to buy new terminals. Now major retailers want something done and so does congress. So the 2015 date is back on.

 

Today we have had a third retailer breached. Michaels Crafts. I expect there will be more. To restore faith in Credit Cards and Debit cards I think chip and pin cards will be issued.

 

We think you might be right. What is even stranger is that the Chip/PIN EMV patent and process is partially owned by several US-based credit card companies. Some outfits like AMEX and CapitalOne have been issuing Chip/PIN cards for more then 2 years...but only to residents of Canada. The answer to the mystery lies in the huge number of US outstanding credit cards (over 1 billion) plus the large number of terminal card readers....all of which would have to be replaced at a huge expense. So the card companies just keep dragging their feet.

 

Hank

[Charles4515]

We think you might be right. What is even stranger is that the Chip/PIN EMV patent and process is partially owned by several US-based credit card companies. Some outfits like AMEX and CapitalOne have been issuing Chip/PIN cards for more then 2 years...but only to residents of Canada. The answer to the mystery lies in the huge number of US outstanding credit cards (over 1 billion) plus the large number of terminal card readers....all of which would have to be replaced at a huge expense. So the card companies just keep dragging their feet.

 

Hank

 

The large numbers of cards and terminals is the answer. It is not a mystery! The magnetic cards only cost .50 to produce. The Chip cards cost $2 to produce. Terminals cost $400 to $1000. The POS machines that large retailers use are on the high end because they do more than just credit transactions. That's how they maintain inventory these days. There are probably upgrades that need to be done to the backend software too. The cost of fraud in the US has been lower than the cost of converting to chip and pin. I think what is happening now is a turning point. The costs of fraud are increasing and likely keep increasing. There are going to be more POS systems hacked. They might already be hacked. Target and Nieman Marcus had been compromised for months but it was just revealed.

[Sevenmaples]

Until the U.S. catches up with the rest of the world and adopts the security of the chip and pin card, hackers will make the U.S. the global center of credit and debit card fraud. Hackers naturally focus on the least secure market.

 

Your Debit Card Is Much More Dangerous Than You Think | TIME.com http://business.time.com/2014/01/18/your-debit-card-is-much-more-dangerous-than-you-think/#ixzz2sG61uXjM

Edited February 3, 2014 by Sevenmaples

[SadieN]

The latest today. By 2015 we should have Chip & Pin cards

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-sign-swipe-credit-cards-145220287.html

[Charles4515]

The latest today. By 2015 we should have Chip & Pin cards

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-sign-swipe-credit-cards-145220287.html

 

I think we will but I won't actually believe it until my card issuers send me a chip and pin card without me requesting one!

[kiwimum]

USAA has chip and pin cards, but you must request them. No available for usual website. Just send them an email to convert your account. Everything can be done online. Requested mine Thursday, in the mail Friday. No change in fees, rewards, etc. Once you have changed to chip and pin they will not change you back. Was assured there was no issue using them in swipe machines as they also have mag stripe embedded. Will let you know when I start using mine next week.

[3dashers]

I'm not sure this fits the thread but you guys seem to know the cc ATM world. My banks (suntrust and Wells Fargo) tell me my ATM card won't work in Europe. I'm looking at 3 weeks in Europe so that's a lot of euros to be caring around. (Tours to pay for food along the way etc)

 

I've got a cap1 cc so charging isnt problem, but cash advances tend to be expensive.

 

What's the best way to get euros?

 

Many thanks

[Loonbeam]

Best answer is to find a bank that will support it and open a checking account there. TD Bank has them.

 

There are also pre-paid debit cards but they can have fees.

 

Kind of odd a wells fargo card wouldn't work for withdrawls tho. This is right from the Wells Fargo site:

 

"If there is no Wells Fargo location or ATM in your area, you can use your debit card at more than 1.5 million Visa® and Plus® network ATMs internationally. Visit the Visa global ATM network locator to view a list of ATMs that accept your card worldwide."

 

 

 

I'm not sure this fits the thread but you guys seem to know the cc ATM world. My banks (suntrust and Wells Fargo) tell me my ATM card won't work in Europe. I'm looking at 3 weeks in Europe so that's a lot of euros to be caring around. (Tours to pay for food along the way etc)

 

I've got a cap1 cc so charging isnt problem, but cash advances tend to be expensive.

 

What's the best way to get euros?

 

Many thanks

[cruisemom42]

I'm not sure this fits the thread but you guys seem to know the cc ATM world. My banks (suntrust and Wells Fargo) tell me my ATM card won't work in Europe. I'm looking at 3 weeks in Europe so that's a lot of euros to be caring around. (Tours to pay for food along the way etc)

 

I've got a cap1 cc so charging isnt problem, but cash advances tend to be expensive.

 

What's the best way to get euros?

 

Many thanks

 

I have a Wells Fargo ATM card that I've used on occasion in Europe. I don't use it much anymore (now that I have a Cap One banking account with no withdrawal charges and no foreign transaction fee), but I've never had a problem.

 

Did you talk to someone personally at Wells Fargo? If so, you may have just gotten incorrect info. I'd check again and be very clear about your needs.

 

Edited to add: Perhaps, on second thought, they were just warning you about the chip-and-pin issue which seems to be coming to ATM cards as well as credit cards in some places in Europe...

Edited March 28, 2014 by cruisemom42

[3dashers]

Thanks everyone! I agree about Wells Fargo and will try the personal approach. DH also pinted out it could be the account my ATM card is tied to, it's just the checking so I may need it attached to a different acct.

 

Thanks again for helping

[Hlitner]

I'm not sure this fits the thread but you guys seem to know the cc ATM world. My banks (suntrust and Wells Fargo) tell me my ATM card won't work in Europe. I'm looking at 3 weeks in Europe so that's a lot of euros to be caring around. (Tours to pay for food along the way etc)

 

I've got a cap1 cc so charging isnt problem, but cash advances tend to be expensive.

 

What's the best way to get euros?

 

Many thanks

 

Guess we are a bit puzzled by what you have been told. If you look on the back of your debit/ATM card it should indicated whether it works on any network. Most cards will say "Plus," "Visa," or "Cirrus" and these networks are common throughout the world (including all of Europe). As long as your card has one of these networks it is capable of being used in Europe providing that your bank has authorized such transaction. Instead of asking at your local bank we suggest you simply call the toll free number on the back of the card and inquire. You should also call your banks ATM folks and notify them, in advance of your trip, of your itinerary (this avoids security issues). Also keep in mind that European ATMs only have numbers on their keypads so you need to know your PIN in numbers. 4 digit PINs are the norm and if you have a 6 digit PIN that can be an issue. One other issue is that there will be a daily withdrawal limit (often no more then 300 Euros).

 

As to Wells Fargo, a quick search on the web would take you to their own site where they explain that their cards do work world wide. Here is a link

 

https://www.wellsfargo.com/help/faqs/debit-card/

 

Now I am going to add an "editorial comment." Many years ago we gave-up on larger commercial banks (like Wells Fargo) because they charge absurd fees to their customers. Smaller banks and many credit unions are much more consumer friendly. In fact, my 2 credit unions actually reimburse me for any ATM fees charged when I use my ATM cards at other banks. Wells Fargo indicates that they charge $5 per transaction plus 3% on any foreign ATM Withdrawal.. Personally, I would tell them to "take their ATM card and shove it" and find a bank that appreciates your business rather then rips you off. As an example, neither of my 2 ATM cards charges any withdrawal fees and if used internationally the only cost is the 1% added into the wholesale rate of exchange. This 1% is routine and assessed by "Visa International" who serves as the actual network that processes international ATM transactions for nearly all banks and networks. I should also mention that an exchange rate of 1% off of the wholesale rate of exchange is about as good as it gets and much better then you would get by exchanging cash.

 

Hank

Edited March 30, 2014 by Hlitner

[-Lew-]

 

As an example, neither of my 2 ATM cards charges any withdrawal fees and if used internationally the only cost is the 1% added into the wholesale rate of exchange.

Hi Hank...

 

Correct me if my memory has failed me, but I seem to recall you were using a Cap1 debit card for foreign ATM withdrawals. Unless something has changed, Cap1 is still absorbing the 1% fee added by VISA to international foreign currency transactions.

 

I know this does not apply to newly issued debit cards, but as of last October I have seen no charges above the actual interbank exchange rate on ATM withdrawals when using my Cap1 debit card in Europe.

 

Lew

[Hlitner]

Hi Hank...

 

Correct me if my memory has failed me, but I seem to recall you were using a Cap1 debit card for foreign ATM withdrawals. Unless something has changed, Cap1 is still absorbing the 1% fee added by VISA to international foreign currency transactions.

 

I know this does not apply to newly issued debit cards, but as of last October I have seen no charges above the actual interbank exchange rate on ATM withdrawals when using my Cap1 debit card in Europe.

 

Lew

 

What a memory :). But not perfect :). We have used the Cap One Master Card which is a credit card that charges zero foreign exchange fees. But never had a Cap One debit card. We do not have any debit card that avoids that 1% interbank fee, but two of our cards have no other exchange fees.

 

Hank

Edited March 30, 2014 by Hlitner

[Charles4515]

Hi Hank...

 

Correct me if my memory has failed me, but I seem to recall you were using a Cap1 debit card for foreign ATM withdrawals. Unless something has changed, Cap1 is still absorbing the 1% fee added by VISA to international foreign currency transactions.

 

I know this does not apply to newly issued debit cards, but as of last October I have seen no charges above the actual interbank exchange rate on ATM withdrawals when using my Cap1 debit card in Europe.

 

Lew

 

I have a Capital One debit card and am not charged any fee at foreign ATMs. I have the High Yield Checking account. I believe their other checking accounts do charge a fee at foreign ATMs.

[cruisemom42]

I have a Capital One debit card and am not charged any fee at foreign ATMs. I have the High Yield Checking account.

 

Ditto. No fees -- either withdrawal or foreign transaction -- charged using my Cap One debit card.

[euro cruiser]

Are these on-line Cap One accounts, or brick & mortar ones? Somewhere I got the idea that there are different benefits (as in more) with an on-line account vs. a standard one.