How To Not Be Sour Grapes?

[DesertPesce7751]

I think maybe I phrased the question about being honest about the experience wrong. Honestly, I was planning to rip them a new one with my candor on the boards (once prompted, of course) and in my reviews wherever else.

 

What I was wondering was: I'm still on the cruise and I know a lot if people get upset if they hear anything negative at all. Do I hide our experience in Split and convey that everything was fine to avoid bumming people out? I'm taking about discussions on board during the next few days while the cruise is still going on. I don't want to ruin anyone's time, especially considering that the cruise and every other port have been amazing and many people won't be repeating the cruise & going to Split again.

 

At this point, I'm also more asking for the future, as the conversation onboard is generally about the most recent port or two. I feel like I wish I'd had a book called "bad excursions guides & managers for dummies" so I'd have known how to field those questions at dinner, on elevators, and otherwise. We'd had a terrible experience and didn't know how much to share so as to be true to what happened but not sour grapes about it.

 

My top few were:

 

"Beautiful country, but wasn't our best tour experience. You look like you had a lovely day. What did you do in port?"

 

"Eh, it was strange but we can laugh about it in a few weeks. We really loved the ----- at (prior port) though and can't wait for ------ tomorrow at (next port)!"

 

"The scenery was beautiful! We'd for sure go rafting in Split again but know we'd use a different tour operator & guide."

 

At that point, they could either go with the comments and keep it positive or inquire for more about what made it bad. Best I could do on short notice but I want to be better prepared if it happens again.

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

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[CapeCodCruiser]

I wouldn't worry about sounding like sour grapes or stepping on someone's toes. Clearly the person who organized the tour was not worried about your experience - I would not worry about being frank & honest when asked about your experience there. But I am a boat rocker

 

Enjoy the rest of your trip!

[Krazy Kruizers]

We have had problems on regular excursions as well.

We have had some terrible guides -- we did not tip them.

We had a situation on a semi-sub where one young lady refused to move closer to her boy friend so that everyone would have a seat. That meant that we were one seat short. I just to stay above. My DH was a little miffed so he also stayed above with me. The 2 crew members made the excursion as nice as possible for us. When the tour was over, we did not realize that these 2 crew members plus a couple of other passengers reported to the CD about what happened and how rude the young girl was. He ran into us before we even got back to the ship and we were given half our money back. On that private tour of yours -- you should have been given some compensation for it being over booked and having to wear an ill-fitted life jacket. I know I would have said something to the person who organized this tour.

And I certainly would let others know about your experience and that company.

[Karysa]

You are wasting time and energy on your European Cruise over this??? What a waste!!! Put the computer down and go and have some fun!!!

[DesertPesce7751]

You are wasting time and energy on your European Cruise over this??? What a waste!!! Put the computer down and go and have some fun!!!

 

Lol! I totally agree. You guys have been SO amazing and empathic to let me vent for a few minutes on this incredible 2 week adventure! We're having a wonderful time and sharing on here has helped me not let it pour over into the rest of the cruise! We had an amazing day at the beach in Bari today and on to Corfu tomorrow!

 

Thanks, Karysa! <3

 

:-) :-) :-)

 

 

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[5326jan]

I feel for the OP! I have organized some private tours on cruises we have been on. I don't do it for any financial gain, but to book the guides/tours that have the best reputations as early as possible before they are booked by someone else. :) I feel such responsibility for the others on the tour to have a good experience, I would take the least desirable position/situation, so that others were comfortable. The unfortunate thing is that the organizer can only rely on what others have written about a tour/guide. We can't "try them out" first. This is why an accurate review is so important! There have been times that a guide has "fudged" on what they have advertised the tour to include. If they have this habit, it's good to know. Sometimes, due to weather or other unforeseeable situation, it can't be helped. False advertising on the other hand is a different story.

 

Personally, I don't book tours that must be pre-paid, nor do I collect or suggest an amount others should tip. We pay our share and what we want to tip and let everyone else do the same.

 

I would love to hear from others that organize tours, what they do to ensure that this doesn't happen to their tour. ie: What if you arrange for a tour of 8 and discover that the guide has added more to the group? Do you as a group decide that's ok? What if your tour includes lunch and it's at a place that is less than desirable, but pre-arranged by guide? What if a vehicle is not what was advertised?

 

As someone that's been on other's private tours, I realize that they can't know all the details about a tour, because the guide/operator may change something at the last minute. Maybe for the good, maybe not. But the organizer can't know or be responsible for this!

 

We have also done ship's tours that weren't what they advertised to be. :rolleyes: I think it's always a bit of a gamble, but usually well worth it. The OP is a good sport and I'm sorry what should have been an amazing tour was spoiled. :(

[Karysa]

Lol! I totally agree. You guys have been SO amazing and empathic to let me vent for a few minutes on this incredible 2 week adventure! We're having a wonderful time and sharing on here has helped me not let it pour over into the rest of the cruise! We had an amazing day at the beach in Bari today and on to Corfu tomorrow!

 

Thanks, Karysa! <3

 

:-) :-) :-)

 

 

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:). If you went to Polignano a Mare I have no further sympathy for you what-so-ever! (lol) That is one of my all time favorite places that I have ever been to. We took the train there from Bari in 2011 during a cruise stop and it was amazing. I hear Corfu is beautiful as well. Enjoy the rest of your cruise.:)

[slidergirl]

Hmmm. Not sure there are many, more cynical about excursions then myself but even we have taken and are aware of many great private excursions organized on the Roll Calls. In fact, on our really long and adventurous cruises (like one we took to 23 ports of 13 countries) the Roll Calls tours were the big topic on our ship. On that one particular cruise there was one couple (Brad and Karen) that organized tours in nearly every port that were excellent and great value. The times we have done tours with others from the Roll Call we did not generally have to pay any money in advance. On some of the tours, they were put together with very highly recommended local tour companies and everyone on the group had to register with the local tour operator (we recently did this for 3 days of tours in Israel).

 

Not using the Roll Calls leaves many at the mercy of the oft very overpriced cruise line sponsored cattle drives (they call them excursions) or going off totally on their own (our normal method of travel). But trying to book tours on your own can be very pricy (which is why we often just rent a car of take trains).

 

My advice when joining with others on a tour via the Roll Calls is to get the name of the tour operator and check them out on your own. There are many highly recommended tour companies (and individual guides) that one can find on the Ports of Call boards.

 

Hank

 

Hank - I am a pretty cynical person. I've had enough nasty life experiences to make me that way. Definitely the "once bitten, twice shy" type here. I'm not a joiner by nature, so to put my vacation pleasure in the hands of a stranger is hard for me. Being a solo traveler, in order to afford an excursion in the first place, I'd most surely have to do the excursion as part of a group (No way can I afford a private option). I have done activities organized by a friend, I'm OK with that (because I KNOW where they live ;) ). If I did step out and join someone's excursion from a Roll Call, I would absolutely not go into it blindly. I would do my own independent research on the actual tour operator. Only then, if I felt very comfortable that the operator is professional and will give me a good experience, would I join a group organized by someone I didn't know. I don't pay for those ship's excursions - I'm not "herdable" ;)

[cruisemom42]

I'm not a joiner by nature, so to put my vacation pleasure in the hands of a stranger is hard for me. Being a solo traveler, in order to afford an excursion in the first place, I'd most surely have to do the excursion as part of a group (No way can I afford a private option). I have done activities organized by a friend, I'm OK with that (because I KNOW where they live ;) ). If I did step out and join someone's excursion from a Roll Call, I would absolutely not go into it blindly. I would do my own independent research on the actual tour operator. Only then, if I felt very comfortable that the operator is professional and will give me a good experience, would I join a group organized by someone I didn't know. I don't pay for those ship's excursions - I'm not "herdable" ;)

 

I am definitely a "control freak" when it comes to doing things in port. Partly because -- like you -- I often travel on my own and partly because the things I want to see while in port are often REALLY specific (not the kinds of things most "first time" visitors will be wanting to see on a private tour). So I rarely join private tours arranged by others.

 

Once in a while I'll arrange a private tour and find a few like-minded folks that want to share. Usually I do this when there is no possible way I can do whatever it is under my own steam (e.g., via public transportation). This has generally worked out pretty well. The specific nature of the tours tends to attract folks who are seriously interested as opposed to casual joiners.

 

I'm also able to travel sometimes with a friend who shares my specific interests, and we may arrange a private tour for the two of us -- still expensive but better than for one person and we get our history itch scratched. I've even been known to arrange for a private tour for just me (especially if it's somewhere I'm unlikely to get back to for a long time, if ever....)

 

So I guess this is a long way of saying that for me, a private tour isn't about savings over what the ship excursions cost, but more about seeing what I want to see and having a quality day. I certainly wouldn't blindly have faith in the planning of others. :D

[Donder1]

We had a similiar experience in Turkey. Our guide was rude, made snide comment about gays, and did not assist or even wait for some elderly folks trying to navigate broken, slippery, steep stairs with no hand rails. I did help because it was the right thing to do. He just charged ahead. On the way back to the ship, he made a big deal out of lecturing us about why it was so important to tip him and the driver. We did not tip.

[Mary Ellen]

When you return home you can share your experience with the tour operator on the Ports of Call forum here. As mentioned, you can't start a new thread, but I'm sure that by doing a search for the operator's name you'll find a thread (or two) where they are mentioned. You can (and IMHO should) post your review on any thread asking about tours in Split or when the operator is already mentioned. That way any others looking into booking with the same operator in the future can consider your experience when deciding about their own tour.

 

The last time we shared a tour with strangers from a roll call was definitely the last time. One couple was very nice, but the other two... :eek: :eek: :eek:

[DesertPesce7751]

:). If you went to Polignano a Mare I have no further sympathy for you what-so-ever! (lol) That is one of my all time favorite places that I have ever been to. We took the train there from Bari in 2011 during a cruise stop and it was amazing. I hear Corfu is beautiful as well. Enjoy the rest of your cruise.:)

 

YES. Amazing beach. And...Corfu was today. Paleokastritsa is a place I could spend a month! Trip of a lifetime!

 

 

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[Smokeyham]

1. Are you allowed to say "no, thank you" when a fellow passenger who books a tour requests your money to tip?

 

Absolutely! In fact, it seems strange that a fellow passenger is asking you to give them money to be passed along as a tip. Normally people just give a tip directly to the person who will be receiving it. If you don't want to say "no" outright to the passenger, you could say something along the lines of "We're still deciding what to give. We'll deal directly with the guide and save you the trouble."

 

 

2. How assertive is one allowed to be when something goes wrong that doesn't effect the whole group (ie, the seating and the life jacket) to make sure your own safety, comfort, and experience are appropriate and equal?

 

You do need to be assertive, especially when it is a safety issue. You don't have to be loud and obnoxious, but I would have a private talk with the boat operator or appropriate person, and say that the issue needs to be resolved before you start the boat trip.

 

3. Is it better to be honest about a bad experience or trivialize it when asked how a tour was?

 

As others have said, if you do not spread the word then others will book the same tour, and likely experience the same problems as you did. Safety is not something to be trivialized, and your "guide" took unfortunate pains to tell you about deaths on the same river, so the issue is not a trivial one.

 

 

One a final note, I would disagree that the fellow passenger/organizer should have taken the worst seat or the ill-fitting life jacket. The role of the fellow passenger who organized the tour is really one of coordinating people to participate in the tour, not to be the one who solves problems during the tour. Presumably she paid the tour company as much as you did, and so has no obligation to resolve issues you are having with the experience.

 

It would have been nice if she had shown some empathy towards your issues, even if only to say that she was sorry they happened, and hopes you can come to resolution with the tour company, but she is under no obligation to do so.

[happy cruzer]

I'm glad the OP shared their experience. Most of us just hear the rosy, cost savings parts of the private excursions. We need to think about the realities involved as well. We rarely do any group excursions. We do them only when the logistics involved make it too hard or expensive to just go on our own.

[Taxguy77]

1. This would a clear case of a time NOT to give a tip. It certainly sounds like the guide did not do much of a job, even if you don't blame him for the overbooking.

2. Definitely be assertive when your safety is involved.

3. At a minimum I would tell people going there in the future NOT to take this tour.

 

Agree!

[Cruisin' Chick]

1. Are you allowed to say "no, thank you" when a fellow passenger who books a tour requests your money to tip?

 

Absolutely! In fact, it seems strange that a fellow passenger is asking you to give them money to be passed along as a tip. Normally people just give a tip directly to the person who will be receiving it. If you don't want to say "no" outright to the passenger, you could say something along the lines of "We're still deciding what to give. We'll deal directly with the guide and save you the trouble."

It's pretty standard for individuals to tip the guide directly. The exception would be if everyone in the group knew the organizer very well enough to know that when the tip is handed over, the guide understands it's from the group. I'll pull the cynical card out that how do you know a stranger won't pocket some of the money and then act as if that tip is from him or her.

 

In this case, if pressed, you can remind the OP that you felt this was a compromised excursion for you in many ways and that if anyone asks for a recap of what you did on the cruise, you'll recommend against this excursion. And if he or she doesn't see it the same way, well, too bad.

 

It's not sour grapes, it's the truth. Sour grapes, according to Wikipedia, is: an expression originating from "The Fox and the Grapes," one of Aesop's Fables. It refers to pretending not to care for something one wants, but does not or cannot have. So, this doesn't pertain to your unfortunate situation, does it?

 

 

2. How assertive is one allowed to be when something goes wrong that doesn't effect the whole group (ie, the seating and the life jacket) to make sure your own safety, comfort, and experience are appropriate and equal?

 

You do need to be assertive, especially when it is a safety issue. You don't have to be loud and obnoxious, but I would have a private talk with the boat operator or appropriate person, and say that the issue needs to be resolved before you start the boat trip.

 

Again, you had a compromised excursion. You shouldn't have to act like it was nothing to be concerned.

3. Is it better to be honest about a bad experience or trivialize it when asked how a tour was?

 

As others have said, if you do not spread the word then others will book the same tour, and likely experience the same problems as you did. Safety is not something to be trivialized, and your "guide" took unfortunate pains to tell you about deaths on the same river, so the issue is not a trivial one.

 

Again, one purpose of this board is to give you impressions of ships, ports, etc. Your opinion could be relevant to others.

 

One a final note, I would disagree that the fellow passenger/organizer should have taken the worst seat or the ill-fitting life jacket. The role of the fellow passenger who organized the tour is really one of coordinating people to participate in the tour, not to be the one who solves problems during the tour. Presumably she paid the tour company as much as you did, and so has no obligation to resolve issues you are having with the experience.

 

It would have been nice if she had shown some empathy towards your issues, even if only to say that she was sorry they happened, and hopes you can come to resolution with the tour company, but she is under no obligation to do so.

 

Unfortunately, too many people are that self-absorbed. If I had talked someone into something (especially if it cost money, but maybe even if it didn't cost anything -- you could have done something else that day and have a great time).

[BeagleOne]

 

I forgot to mention that the little boy from Norway who came was instructed to sit on the bow for the last stretch with no life jacket or helmet. I was nervous for him the whole way back.

 

 

 

YIKES!!!! :eek: That ALONE justifies a bad review and a warning to others who might be considering using this company!

[wassup4565]

It's nobody's business but yours whether you tip, or how much. If I were canvassed by an organizer to contribute to a tip pool as you have described, I would say, "Thanks, but I want to show my appreciation personally."

 

My feeling is that tips are for showing my appreciation for the service I received. The guide's political opinions and other views aren't a component of service, in my view. Service is whether your needs were met, whether you were treated politely and attentively, and so on. For my part, I'm interested in hearing guides' political and other views (even if I don't agree) as I think they give me an insight into people's thinking in different parts of the world. Just because I don't agree with a guide's viewpoints doesn't mean I shouldn't tip, if that guide paid attention to my needs.

 

As a long-time whitewater canoeist, I wouldn't get into a vessel without a proper-fitting life jacket under any circumstances. If a child was without a life jacket, in whitewater, I'd threaten to call the authorities in and advise the parents to pull the plug on the expedition.

 

The cruise lines' expeditions are over-priced and over-crowded. We've had great experiences with organizing our shore-trips and joining others on our roll calls in theirs.

 

And finally, yes, you should post your thoughts about this excursion. Be frank, be honest, about both the good and the bad. We're all grown-ups here.