How To Not Be Sour Grapes?

[DesertPesce7751]

Okay, so I'd like to take a minute to "poll the forum" and ask about how you'd handle something. We're generally very happy cruisers--easy going, easy to please, fun, happy. We always tip well and keep things positive. However, we had one unfortunate day (surrounded by amazing things!). It was a private excursion that a fellow passenger arranged to go rafting in Split, Croatia.

 

First, the manager had overbooked the tour so my mother and I (two grown women 26 & 59) had to share a seat in the van. Then, there weren't enough life jackets for everyone in the right sizes (I was, to be accurate, not the largest or even second largest person in the group) so I was given one that was too small. Then, when we got in the boat, there was enough space for eight of us, not nine, so for the duration of the excursion, I (and later someone else when we rotated) had to sit off to the back corner (uncomfortable and a safety hazard with what was in the raft).

 

While the logistics were an issue, what really bothered me was the guide (not the same as the manager). He made snide comments about Italians, Germans, and multiple ones about Israelis and at least one loud comment that was anti-gay. He also spent time complaining about his girlfriend & also his boss (Bruno, the manager, who overbooked the van). He also pointed out each and every place in which people had died rafting the same river (as we would be about to enter that area). Finally, he mentioned his throughout-the-day pot smoking habit (I have nothing against weed when people do it in their free time, fwiw).

 

Anyway, we were approached by the fellow passenger who booked the tour we shared and asked to give a tip, which we did as not to make things awkward. We realized after the fact that her party of three actually gave a smaller tip per person (10 € for all three) than the rest of us did (20 € for the other four of us). (Edited for clarity: the other two people were not from the cruise and on holiday from Norway)

 

It was a few days ago now and I don't want to let it get to me but occasionally, cruisers ask each other about ports and excursions. If asked about Split, I've been focusing on the positive (ie: the natural beauty) but if asked about the excursion, I don't want to lie so I've been just saying it was a "bizarre experience" and, if prompted, sharing about what I wrote above (specifically the bigotry & overbooking). I usually try to shift the topic and focus on what a beautiful ship we're on, the amazing staff, and all of the other wonderful experiences we've had at the ports because no one likes negativity on vacation.

 

Anyway, this brings me to my questions:

 

1. Are you allowed to say "no, thank you" when a fellow passenger who books a tour requests your money to tip?

 

2. How assertive is one allowed to be when something goes wrong that doesn't effect the whole group (ie, the seating and the life jacket) to make sure your own safety, comfort, and experience are appropriate and equal?

 

3. Is it better to be honest about a bad experience or trivialize it when asked how a tour was?

 

 

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[Keith1010]

I can tell you are very thoughtful by the way you wrote this review.

 

My answers follow.

 

1. You should tip as you please and not feel obligated to tip.

 

2. You should speak up if something is not right. You should not have had to share a seat.

 

3. Yes, you should be honest and provide constructive feedback.

 

Keith

[paul929207]

1. This would a clear case of a time NOT to give a tip. It certainly sounds like the guide did not do much of a job, even if you don't blame him for the overbooking.

2. Definitely be assertive when your safety is involved.

3. At a minimum I would tell people going there in the future NOT to take this tour.

[Karysa]

I would only hold the driver accountable for his part. Driving me safely and being informative and pleasant. If I had a problem with his performance like you did then I would not have tipped him.

 

I would not however have witholded a tip if the driver was excellent but was given inferior equipment. That beef would be with the tour operator not the driver IMO.

 

Remember if you continue chatting that this tour was a good one then others may decide to do it the next time that they are in that port. Because of that reason alone I think that being truthful but not harsh is the way to go.

[sail7seas]

IMO, the person who organized the tour not only should not have asked you to contribute to the tip but that person should have taken the shared seat and ill fitting life jacket. That is part of the responsibility of being the organizer IMO

 

You were not treated well and could not enjoy your excursion to the fullest and the organizer is partly responsible, IMO

 

I won't get into a huge speech about being an 'over-tipper' though it is true but will only say I would not have tipped that guide and would have told the organizer why....... porbably at a later time. I would have refrused to tip at the moment but asked to speak with organizer later on t he ship.

 

I'm sorry to read this happened to you.

[Karysa]

IMO, the person who organized the tour not only should not have asked you to contribute to the tip but that person should have taken the shared seat and ill fitting life jacket. That is part of the responsibility of being the organizer IMO

 

You were not treated well and could not enjoy your excursion to the fullest and the organizer is partly responsible, IMO

 

I won't get into a huge speech about being an 'over-tipper' though it is true but will only say I would not have tipped that guide and would have told the organizer why....... porbably at a later time. I would have refrused to tip at the moment but asked to speak with organizer later on t he ship.

 

I'm sorry to read this happened to you.

 

I would feel responsible as the organizer as well and that's why I have never organized a tour on a roll call before. I would not however expect the organizer to share a seat and take the ill-fitting life jacket if I had decided to join a tour operated by another cc member. I would feel that we are in the same situation so I would hope that the 2 smallest people would share a seat (odds are it would be me if no children were on the tour) and I would hope that the strongest swimmer would take the ill-fitting lifejacket (likely this would not be me)! ( full disclosure!:D)

[CapeCodCruiser]

I have to agree - I would not have tipped at all - the guide certainly acted inappropriately and did nothing to enhance your excursion.

 

Please clarify - did the CC person who organized the excursion overbook it or did the excursion operator? If the CC person was responsible for over booking then I agree they should have borne the discomfort. If the operator overbooked and possibly placed customers at risk and definitely caused discomfort I would email them with my concerns as well as include this info in a review of the operator.

 

I would also post a review of this tour operator and caution other that your guide was less that desirable and future planners would be advised to request to NOT have him.

[Azulann]

Sounds like you did not really get a PRIVATE tour, but a rafting tour that included two additional people who were not part of the organized tour from your roll call.

 

I have organized many private tours and offered them on my roll call. first, when emailing the tour operator, I make sure that the final number I give is the actual number of people that will be on the tour and the price pp. sounds like there was a mix up with the tour operator that was used.

I would certainly provide all the information about your experience when you are posting on the ports of call forum. Let other posters make up their own minds about this tour operator.

I have also joined private tours from my roll call, but I do lots of emailing the person organizing it off the roll call forum to make sure exactly what was promised and get the actual email from the tour operator to understand if it is something I want to do, or does it sound kind of haphazard.

sorry you had such a weird experience and I would have not given a tip.

[RETCOL]

Hi - what a miserable experience. IMO, you should post your honest review where future cruisers will have the benefit of your experience in making their decisions about how to spend their valuable time and money. I depend heavily on the reviews I read on this site and on Trip Advisor. It has probably prevented my making some costly mistakes.

 

As for the tipping, of course I think no tip was deserved, however, I must admit I have done just as you did before. I am a peacemaker at heart and I am usually trying to keep down the conflict --I hate it later when I do that.

 

In short, I think you can feel better about all this if you publish your review and prevent a fellow cruiser from unknowingly buying this excursion. You would probably never have signed on for this if you had read a review like this first.

 

I'm glad the rest of your trip was great for you!

[Hlitner]

OMG...what a bummer. If you had paid for the tour in advance then there is not much you can do but go with the flow. But if you were paying at the time of the tour you certainly could have balked and simply walked away. I know this sounds drastic...but a friend of ours just did this on a private excursion we had booked on the island of Nuka Hiva. The tour operator did not really have enough vans for the group and was cramming 3 into the back seat which should have held only 2. Our friends simply said, NO and walked away (they found something else to do with their day).

 

Hank

[PennyAgain]

As a family member of mine was killed rafting in a foreign country, all I can say is........ this tour operator needs to be reported high and low.

[lucinjo]

Was this presented as a private excursion by the Tour Company and/or the cruiser organizing the tour? We have had cases where we booked a private tour and then got an email from the guide or manager asking us to include others. We either turn it down, or expect a reduced price per person. If your organizer got a discount which they didn't share with you, they should have taken the less desirable seats/vests. When I organize a tour and something appears that doesn't conform to our agreed terms, I take charge and make sure it gets corrected or am the one to suffer the consequences.

I also never would ask others if they were going to tip. Often, our group gets together and discusses what we want to rip, but it should be voluntary. Last year in France we had a guide that did a great job on the tour, but made insulting remarks about a national group, two members of our group of six were this nationality. They chose not to tip the guide (although they were generous with the driver), while the rest of us tipped both guide and driver. I noted to the guide later in a letter about the issue and he wrote a lovely letter of apology to the insulted guests. Always be proactive and never feel forced to tip.

[sail7seas]

OP..... Did the person in your group who organized the tour ever explain to you why there were not enough seats or proper life jackets?

Did they apologize for your discomfort or did they simply go on their way with no explanation?

 

[LHT28]

Anyway, this brings me to my questions:

 

1. Are you allowed to say "no, thank you" when a fellow passenger who books a tour requests your money to tip?

Of course you can say no & tip what you like

2. How assertive is one allowed to be when something goes wrong that doesn't effect the whole group (ie, the seating and the life jacket) to make sure your own safety, comfort, and experience are appropriate and equal?

 

3. Is it better to be honest about a bad experience or trivialize it when asked how a tour was?

 

Be honest

 

If the tour was overbooked as disappointing as it might be.. I would not go.

If the boat was overloaded & did not have the proper safety equipment I would not go

I have not had that problem yet when booking private tours

 

When I do book private tours I just take the money for each person if it is book as a total price & let people tip as they choose

If the tour is book at a PP rate then everyone deals with the payment on their own

 

JMO

[CowPrincess]

Anyway, this brings me to my questions:

 

1. Are you allowed to say "no, thank you" when a fellow passenger who books a tour requests your money to tip?

 

2. How assertive is one allowed to be when something goes wrong that doesn't effect the whole group (ie, the seating and the life jacket) to make sure your own safety, comfort, and experience are appropriate and equal?

 

3. Is it better to be honest about a bad experience or trivialize it when asked how a tour was?

 

 

 

1. I personally would have tipped when asked. Sometimes it just isn't worth the aggravation, upset, guilt, hurt feelings etc to not do as asked, y'know?

 

2. I think I'd have declined to participate, right at the "life jacket" episode. And at that point I'd have requested my money back from the tour operator (or from the organizer, if they had not yet paid).

 

In truth, I can see why you didn't want to "rock the boat" (no pun intended) and continued on, but for me, water safety is crucial.

 

I'm a bit surprised that the organizer didn't say something, but there is really no defined role for roll call tour organizers, so maybe it never even occurred to them.

 

I have no answer regarding how assertive one can be when requesting equal treatment. I woudn't have said anything, probably, and just been highly annoyed.

 

3. BE HONEST IN YOUR REVIEWS. When asked, tell people exactly your experience. We had a less-than-stellar tour one time with a private operator who gets RAVE reviews. I took (and still take) a lot of heat from some of the cheerleaders when I report what OUR experience was. Y'know what? It was OUR experience, and the cheerleaders were NOT on our tour. They had great tours, we had a crappy tour. Be honest, others deserve to know what YOUR experience was.

[slidergirl]

If this was done through a Roll Call, it's another validation of why I'd never pre-book an excursion through some anonymous person on a Roll Call. You're putting yourself out there blind and naked with someone you've never met nor do you know if they are legitimate. The fact that this person put the bump on you for a bigger tip makes me think that you were indeed just a filler for a trip that some wanted to take, but needed more people to fill the group to make it cheap enough for them. Once they hooked you, they could care less what happened.

I'm sorry you had a bad time. Did the organizer of this trip ever apologize?

[DesertPesce7751]

Thanks, wise sages, for all your support and feedback. I'll try my best to answer everything:

 

1. Did the organizer apologize? No, actually, she never indicated any empathy. She actually walked right past yesterday, avoiding looking directly at me. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt here though. She needed the larger life jacket more than I did (since I could squeeze into the smaller one but she wouldn't have been able) and it could just be that she felt uncomfortable that she couldn't help. If really, it's another reason, at this point I just know that I wouldn't book with her again either way.

 

2. Could my mom and I ever walk away? Actually, the manager/driver, Bruno, didn't tell us that there were two more people until long after we'd been driving in a less taxi-trafficked area and we couldn't back out then. We didn't get the jackets until we were a good mile into the park and actually discussed trying to leave but wouldn't have been able to get back.

 

3. Who was the tour organizer? I will scroll the roll call when I get a chance and write a full review here and on trip advisor.

 

I agree about the safety situation and it is so tragic that novices (and even experts)lose their lives on these excursions. I forgot to mention that the little boy from Norway who came was instructed to sit on the bow for the last stretch with no life jacket or helmet. I was nervous for him the whole way back.

 

I think the biggest lesson was about exercising caution with booking private excursions with unknown people. Even if only one in twenty are a bust, I really need to be more cautious and less go-with-the-flow.

 

Do you guys have any tips on booking these things while keeping safe? This was the first cruise we've been on in which I was really active on the boards.

 

 

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[Hlitner]

If this was done through a Roll Call, it's another validation of why I'd never pre-book an excursion through some anonymous person on a Roll Call. You're putting yourself out there blind and naked with someone you've never met nor do you know if they are legitimate. The fact that this person put the bump on you for a bigger tip makes me think that you were indeed just a filler for a trip that some wanted to take, but needed more people to fill the group to make it cheap enough for them. Once they hooked you, they could care less what happened.

I'm sorry you had a bad time. Did the organizer of this trip ever apologize?

 

Hmmm. Not sure there are many, more cynical about excursions then myself but even we have taken and are aware of many great private excursions organized on the Roll Calls. In fact, on our really long and adventurous cruises (like one we took to 23 ports of 13 countries) the Roll Calls tours were the big topic on our ship. On that one particular cruise there was one couple (Brad and Karen) that organized tours in nearly every port that were excellent and great value. The times we have done tours with others from the Roll Call we did not generally have to pay any money in advance. On some of the tours, they were put together with very highly recommended local tour companies and everyone on the group had to register with the local tour operator (we recently did this for 3 days of tours in Israel).

 

Not using the Roll Calls leaves many at the mercy of the oft very overpriced cruise line sponsored cattle drives (they call them excursions) or going off totally on their own (our normal method of travel). But trying to book tours on your own can be very pricy (which is why we often just rent a car of take trains).

 

My advice when joining with others on a tour via the Roll Calls is to get the name of the tour operator and check them out on your own. There are many highly recommended tour companies (and individual guides) that one can find on the Ports of Call boards.

 

Hank

[CanadaDeb]

I can tell you are very thoughtful by the way you wrote this review.

 

My answers follow.

 

1. You should tip as you please and not feel obligated to tip.

 

2. You should speak up if something is not right. You should not have had to share a seat.

 

3. Yes, you should be honest and provide constructive feedback.

 

Keith

 

I agree with Keith. Especially about the feedback. I'm sure you wouldn't want fellow cruisers to have a bad experience. It's also about safety.

[Karysa]

Thanks, wise sages, for all your support and feedback. I'll try my best to answer everything:

 

1. Did the organizer apologize? No, actually, she never indicated any empathy. She actually walked right past yesterday, avoiding looking directly at me. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt here though. She needed the larger life jacket more than I did (since I could squeeze into the smaller one but she wouldn't have been able) and it could just be that she felt uncomfortable that she couldn't help. If really, it's another reason, at this point I just know that I wouldn't book with her again either way.

 

2. Could my mom and I ever walk away? Actually, the manager/driver, Bruno, didn't tell us that there were two more people until long after we'd been driving in a less taxi-trafficked area and we couldn't back out then. We didn't get the jackets until we were a good mile into the park and actually discussed trying to leave but wouldn't have been able to get back.

 

3. Who was the tour organizer? I will scroll the roll call when I get a chance and write a full review here and on trip advisor.

 

I agree about the safety situation and it is so tragic that novices (and even experts)lose their lives on these excursions. I forgot to mention that the little boy from Norway who came was instructed to sit on the bow for the last stretch with no life jacket or helmet. I was nervous for him the whole way back.

 

I think the biggest lesson was about exercising caution with booking private excursions with unknown people. Even if only one in twenty are a bust, I really need to be more cautious and less go-with-the-flow.

 

Do you guys have any tips on booking these things while keeping safe? This was the first cruise we've been on in which I was really active on the boards.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

 

If you write an official review of your cruise and submit to the cc review section you can include your review of this tour in it. You are not permitted to just write a review and start a new thread strictly for this purpose on the ports of call board though unless you are answering another cc members question.

[DesertPesce7751]

If you write an official review of your cruise and submit to the cc review section you can include your review of this tour in it. You are not permitted to just write a review and start a new thread strictly for this purpose on the ports of call board though unless you are answering another cc members question.

 

No that's what I meant. Like "here" as in CC reviews. :-)

 

 

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[CaroleSS]

No, you can't do it here, but you CAN do it through CCs sister site TripAdvisor. I check both before we book anything!!

[CaroleSS]

As to the question of reviewing, as others have stated, be honest. People will read and heed your review if you come across, as you have, as factual. If you spew nonsense, you will be dismissed.

 

I look for honest reviews such as yours. It helps us to avoid the bad ones out there. We also take in the good ones and utilize them. I find comments such as yours invaluable during my planning.

 

Thanks for the review!!!

[tigercat]

I had a bad tour that I had arranged for my sister and I on an island. I was using someone that seemed to have a lot of cheerleaders here. My tour was not good and I was unhappy with it. When I tried to tell the tour operator about it I was cut off. Then I tried to book with him again but with a different driver and I was told all tours were booked. Funny thing was though someone on the roll call booked him right after that. It seemed that for that person a driver opened up. I won't say anything again though as someone asked about this tour and I voiced my experience and got shot down.

tigercat

[Cruisin' Chick]

I would be honest; after all, that's one thing about this board is to help others have a great cruise.

 

I really doubt if we would have wanted to tip on that one, even though we try to remember to do so for good tours. In fact, on our last cruise, we did the wonderful Hollywood and Waterfalls tour on Kauai, and hubby gave a nice tip to the guide and driver. But we saw some people leaving the bus without giving anything.:(

 

Our family seems to have much better luck with excursions we've booked through the cruise line, even though most of the time, we don't book anything and just tour on our own. Sometimes, I'll even see if there's a similar excursions (just to compare) and often there isn't that much of a savings, if any, by booking independently. Maybe it's because any excursions we do are basically tours and not active ones such as ziplining or rafting (just not my thing).

 

And we do our own thing, and not worry about what others are doing on the roll call. Maybe it's because it can get dicey if things go wrong.

 

If you write up a review of your cruise (I imagine you have more to talk about than just this one incident) for the front page, you can include write ups on each port. And if you do a write up of your whole cruise as many of us do for the boards part of CC (put it on the section for the cruiseline you were just on), you can include what happened day by day, including what happened in Croatia.

 

I think this site just doesn't want you to start a thread in the Europe (or more specific) destinations board about this excursion as many times a company may troll for customers this way.