Flying Air France

[Mura]

I meant to make a comment earlier but failed to do so.

 

We had transits through CDG twice in the past couple of years. Our bags were checked through to the final destination. No customs until we got to our final destination.

 

The hike through the airport from one end to the other took about 45 minutes. We DID go through passport control and on a flight from Istanbul to CDG and then on to NY when we got to passport control there were NO clerks helping non-EU passengers. Just two clerks helping EU passengers.

 

After about 10 minutes one of those clerks switched over to us, and wouldn't you know -- in came a wheelchair passenger who was bumped to the head of the line with 5 friends. Normally I wouldn't have cared but we had a VERY tight connection. We made it just in time.

 

Signs are very well marked to point you in the right direction.

 

It's an enormous airport and I prefer to avoid it if I can, but when you're on Air France that is pretty much not possible.

 

Mura

[4774Papa]

Regarding your 10am flight out of Barcelona. You can make that flight if your ship is not late arriving at the port. However, I would advise you to plan to leave the ship by 7am. The taxi queue can be long, but shouldn't be bad at 7.

 

You can arrange for a car service and avoid the taxi line. We used Barcelona Day Tours.

[cruisemuse13]

[

The worst seats we ever had in economy were on Lufthansa last year. It was on one of their Airbus 330 and my husband literally had to climb onto my seat (I was on the aisle) to get out to use the lavs when the passenger in front of him was in full recline.

 

I totally agree with this comment about Lufthansa seats. I had an aisle seat and could not standup to get out, when the seat in front was reclined. It was even hard to read a book since the seat in front was in my face!

[jsmac3]

Regarding your 10am flight out of Barcelona. You can make that flight if your ship is not late arriving at the port. However, I would advise you to plan to leave the ship by 7am. The taxi queue can be long, but shouldn't be bad at 7.

 

You can arrange for a car service and avoid the taxi line. We used Barcelona Day Tours.

 

When we booked this cruise our idea of "escaping completely" wasn't leaving the ship at 7am LOL!

 

The change to the 10am flight occurred after we paid for everything. Currently we have Princess transfers so we'll have to see what type of arrangements they will make for us. I know that sometimes they use some smaller vans rather than have them wait on a larger bus to fill. If that isn't the case, we'll probably take your advice and arrange for a car or taxi.

 

This is our first experience with Princess Air - depending on how this all plays out, it could be our last.

 

Thanks for the advice.

[jsmac3]

Something you can do to help you ease your way in CDG is to look at which gates your flights arrive/depart from for a few days before your flights. Then look at those location on the maps. It will give you a little idea of how to transit. Since your are all SkyTeam, you get to stay within T2. F and E are just the left and right sides of the terminal. It's pretty easy to transit there!!! Be sure to stop by one of the Paul stands - I always pick up a little baguette with brie for the wait for the flight:D

 

Slidergirl, is there passport control without F & E - based on what FlyerTalker said, I don't think so.

 

Thanks.

[slidergirl]

Slidergirl, is there passport control without F & E - based on what FlyerTalker said, I don't think so.

 

Thanks.

 

I'm only familiar with F and E, since I only fly Delta and Air France. But, I've had friends fly AA from there and they were in another part of T2 (B or C, I think) and it had it's own passport control facilities. There is passport control in both F and E. But, you will only do one of them. Based on arrivals today at CDG, the flights from JFK arrived at T2E. The flights to VCE leave from T2F. So, if it stayed the same, you would go through entrance passport control at T2E, follow the transit signs to T2F, and get on your flight. Your luggage will be transferred for you. Since you are doing a transit to a flight within the Schengen area, you won't have another passport control for the flight to VCE. Check to see which pier/gate your flight to VCE leaves from and just follow the signs. You will do your "honor system" customs upon arrival at VCE. Just go to the path with the green light follow out to the arrivals hall.

The upper level of T2 lets you walk to all parts - that's why I say E and F are across from each other. I stay at the Sheraton CDG, which is right in the middle of T2. It's an great place to stayover - the RER/TGV is on the level below it and it is right next to the SkyTeam area. In May, I went the opposite direction through CDG; FCO to CDG, CDG to SLC. Since I had a 23 hr layover, I did have to collect my bag. But, it was just up the elevator again to from there to the Sheraton. For my flight to JFK, it left from the M pier. I went out the Sheraton to the SkyTeam area, turned right, took the automated shuttle to the pier, did exit controls and had a wonderful duty-free shopping experience before going into the Air France business lounge for pre-departure breakfast (and, if you want, a MASSAGE!!!).

 

Back a few years when CDG was doing massive construction, and re-construction when the new terminal collapsed, it was a horror to transit. Lots of hardstands, busses everywhere, a mess. But, it's FARRRRRRR better now. Far superior to JFK and LAX now and, for me, a smidge better than ATL. It does now remind me of ATL, with the shuttle between piers.

Edited October 16, 2013 by slidergirl

[twoputt.plusone]

I meant to make a comment earlier but failed to do so.

 

We had transits through CDG twice in the past couple of years. Our bags were checked through to the final destination. No customs until we got to our final destination.

 

The hike through the airport from one end to the other took about 45 minutes. We DID go through passport control and on a flight from Istanbul to CDG and then on to NY when we got to passport control there were NO clerks helping non-EU passengers. Just two clerks helping EU passengers.

 

After about 10 minutes one of those clerks switched over to us, and wouldn't you know -- in came a wheelchair passenger who was bumped to the head of the line with 5 friends. Normally I wouldn't have cared but we had a VERY tight connection. We made it just in time.

 

Signs are very well marked to point you in the right direction.

 

It's an enormous airport and I prefer to avoid it if I can, but when you're on Air France that is pretty much not possible.

 

Mura

 

You had a very similar experience to us. Yes it is well signed but that only works when you know which gate you're headed for. Ours wasn't assigned, either on our documents or on the departure board. We knew the terminal but not the gate and the agent we asked for help was less than helpful.

[jsmac3]

I'm only familiar with F and E, since I only fly Delta and Air France. But, I've had friends fly AA from there and they were in another part of T2 (B or C, I think) and it had it's own passport control facilities. There is passport control in both F and E. But, you will only do one of them. Based on arrivals today at CDG, the flights from JFK arrived at T2E. The flights to VCE leave from T2F. So, if it stayed the same, you would go through entrance passport control at T2E, follow the transit signs to T2F, and get on your flight. Your luggage will be transferred for you. Since you are doing a transit to a flight within the Schengen area, you won't have another passport control for the flight to VCE. Check to see which pier/gate your flight to VCE leaves from and just follow the signs. You will do your "honor system" customs upon arrival at VCE. Just go to the path with the green light follow out to the arrivals hall.

The upper level of T2 lets you walk to all parts - that's why I say E and F are across from each other. I stay at the Sheraton CDG, which is right in the middle of T2. It's an great place to stayover - the RER/TGV is on the level below it and it is right next to the SkyTeam area. In May, I went the opposite direction through CDG; FCO to CDG, CDG to SLC. Since I had a 23 hr layover, I did have to collect my bag. But, it was just up the elevator again to from there to the Sheraton. For my flight to JFK, it left from the M pier. I went out the Sheraton to the SkyTeam area, turned right, took the automated shuttle to the pier, did exit controls and had a wonderful duty-free shopping experience before going into the Air France business lounge for pre-departure breakfast (and, if you want, a MASSAGE!!!).

 

Back a few years when CDG was doing massive construction, and re-construction when the new terminal collapsed, it was a horror to transit. Lots of hardstands, busses everywhere, a mess. But, it's FARRRRRRR better now. Far superior to JFK and LAX now and, for me, a smidge better than ATL. It does now remind me of ATL, with the shuttle between piers.

 

Thanks, Slidergirl.

 

I meant to type "between F & E" rather than "without F & E".

 

I'll copy all this down, but it appears connecting to an Air France from a Delta Flight won't be all that bad as long as we're close to our scheduled arrival time.

 

And thanks to everyone.

 

Jerry & Cindy

[FlyerTalker]

Perhaps the best way to put this is:

 

For all Air France and most all SkyTeam flights:

 

T2F (both piers) are now intra-Schengen only

T2E (all three concourses) are now extra-Schengen only

 

AF only operates from those two terminals now (plus the T2G "commuter" terminal that requires a bus transfer). DL flies in and out of T2E only.

 

So....if you are making an extra/extra connection, you stay within the T2E complex. If you have an intra/intra connection, you stay within T2F. If you are making an intra/extra or extra/intra connection, you will move between T2E/T2F (depending on which direction). And if you have one of the AF commuter flights (generally codeshares on turboprops), you will have to go in/out of T2G.

[13cheermom]

Just returned from international flight from JFK to Barcelona and back. Flew on Air France through CDG to Barcelona, airport was fine had no problem getting to connecting flight from Paris to Barcelona. Bags were checked all the way through no problem. The airport was clearly marked with signs (just a lot of walking) but totally easy to navigate. Everything landed in Barcelona as expected. Return flight was on straight flight on Delta to JFK, pretty easy setup as well. Now for the comfort level, I will never fly on Air France again, the most hard and uncomfortable seats ever!!! The return on Delta was like heaven compared to Air France. Also the staff on Air France was not as friendly as Delta and were very strict with their amenities onboard. Delta was more than generous with free drinks and snacks and foods the entire flight (actually too much). Didn't choose these flights, went through Carnival Air because the price was so good. But would never fly Air France willingly again. These were economy seats but still comparing apples to apples, Delta wins hands down! Oh and our flight times returning from Barcelona were at 11:40 am and we had plenty of time departing our ship at 7:30 am and shuttle to airport and checking in baggage and obtaining boarding passes for our flight.

[Mura]

Specifically regarding Air France:

 

In April 2012 we flew via AF to Paris, round trip. Business. Much better than the premium economy flight a year earlier when we flew JFK-CDG-Rome and back from Istanbul.

 

On the premium economy flight we had to go through the economy section to get to the bathrooms and I was shocked at how squished everyone looked. Even in premium economy the layout was 2-4-2 but the space was reasonable. It wasn't in economy, and I have no idea how the actual pitch of the seats was ... although that also looked extremely tight.

 

Food was good on AF in biz and premium, but much better on Lufthansa in Aug/Sept 2012 when we did the Black Sea cruise (JFK-Munich-Athens and then Istanbul-Munich-JFK).

 

But I agree ... I will avoid AF when I can in the future.

 

Oh yes, seats were hard on AF, especially in premium economy. (Biz seats were tolerable.) I can't imagine what the economy experience was like.

 

Transfers at CDG were lengthy, because of the long walk from Point A to Point B, but not a problem. We had time, even when we thought we did not.

 

Mura

[4774Papa]

The overall problem with airline seats in economy is that seats are getting smaller and people are getting larger.

[Mura]

Very true. And I keep on wondering why the airlines think it is justified to reduce seat size and pitch further and further! They have to be aware of the issue of increasing size of passengers.

 

They could get sued over the issue of blood clots ... they tell us not to stand in line for the bathroom, not to walk around. We're just to sit in these cramped conditions and be happy ...

 

Doesn't make sense to me.

 

I travel in business when I can these days, but for overseas flights it isn't always feasible. I haven't been in real economy for several years, but I also do not have unlimited funds.

 

Mura

[ducklite]

Very true. And I keep on wondering why the airlines think it is justified to reduce seat size and pitch further and further! They have to be aware of the issue of increasing size of passengers.

 

They could get sued over the issue of blood clots ... they tell us not to stand in line for the bathroom, not to walk around. We're just to sit in these cramped conditions and be happy ...

 

Doesn't make sense to me.

 

I travel in business when I can these days, but for overseas flights it isn't always feasible. I haven't been in real economy for several years, but I also do not have unlimited funds.

 

Mura

 

Bottom line, passengers need to be responsible for the size of their bottom, not the airlines. Most people who are not overweight do not feel terribly cramped in a coach seat. Frankly I don't want to pay higher fares in order to widen seats because people can't stop shoving crap down their throats and refuse to put down the remote and get off the couch and actually get some exercise.

 

I don't know what carriers you are flying, but I've never been told I couldn't walk around a bit--except during take off, landing, and during turbulence, all times where I would want to be belted in anyhow.

[Zach1213]

Bottom line, passengers need to be responsible for the size of their bottom, not the airlines.

 

This. This, x1,000,000.

[6rugrats]

Bottom line, passengers need to be responsible for the size of their bottom, not the airlines. Frankly I don't want to pay higher fares in order to widen seats because people can't stop shoving crap down their throats and refuse to put down the remote and get off the couch and actually get some exercise.

 

I very often enjoy your posts!

[UKBayern]

I'm with FlyerTalker on a lot of the comments made here. But I can also tell you that small regional airports can also make a total mess of things even if they have 5 gates. Clermont-Ferrand springs to mind, and with that the most memorable experience with AF.

 

I always think that unless you use an airline 10x or more (preferably on different aircraft types), and transit through an airport at least 5x, you don't really know if it is a good or bad airport or airline.

 

I have had transits where the gates were next to each other (Zurich, Frankfurt), and transits where I needed a 45 minute jog through the whole terminal (Madrid, Miami). Does that make it a bad airport or is the walking distance in that facility a general rule? No, I was just lucky or unlucky. There are new and old concourses at every airport, if you are unlucky they dump you in an old freezing draughty gate and squash you in a bus to the plane after rudely lecturing you on your perfectly ok ticket and extorting some kind of unknown fine of you. Pay up in cash or we leave you here. That was Austrian Airlines in Vienna, but Austrian Airlines staff in Innsbruck were great every time and there are some awsome modern gates in Vienna too. Some airlines with great reputation had rude cow uninterested flight attendents (Singapore Airlines springs to mind), and I found the staff in multiple American airports (LAX, MIA, FLL, DTW) the rudest in the world with American Airlines taking the cake. And some unknown or unloved carriers have been great at the times I have flown with them (Mexicana, Easyjet, Wizzair, Malev, Czech Airlines).

 

I have flown with multiple airlines many times and had a totally different experience with them every time. And so what? It is a means to get from A to B, not a life changing decision that is going to be a major regret for decades to come. None of European and American carriers are unsafe or unsanitary, and although airline food is never great you won't die of it. After a few hours you get out at your destination and all is forgotten.

Edited October 19, 2013 by UKBayern

[FlyerTalker]

Agree that small airports can also be their own brand of hell. Personally, I like a large airport that will have the facilities I need or want. And if I book a connection that requires me to hike for half an hour, then it's my responsibility.

 

Interesting note.....the OP has been MIA (and not Miami) for any followup.

[slidergirl]

I'm with FlyerTalker on a lot of the comments made here. But I can also tell you that small regional airports can also make a total mess of things even if they have 5 gates. Clermont-Ferrand springs to mind, and with that the most memorable experience with AF.

 

I always think that unless you use an airline 10x or more (preferably on different aircraft types), and transit through an airport at least 5x, you don't really know if it is a good or bad airport or airline.

 

I have had transits where the gates were next to each other (Zurich, Frankfurt), and transits where I needed a 45 minute jog through the whole terminal (Madrid, Miami). Does that make it a bad airport or is the walking distance in that facility a general rule? No, I was just lucky or unlucky. There are new and old concourses at every airport, if you are unlucky they dump you in an old freezing draughty gate and squash you in a bus to the plane after rudely lecturing you on your perfectly ok ticket and extorting some kind of unknown fine of you. Pay up in cash or we leave you here. That was Austrian Airlines in Vienna, but Austrian Airlines staff in Innsbruck were great every time and there are some awsome modern gates in Vienna too. Some airlines with great reputation had rude cow uninterested flight attendents (Singapore Airlines springs to mind), and I found the staff in multiple American airports (LAX, MIA, FLL, DTW) the rudest in the world with American Airlines taking the cake. And some unknown or unloved carriers have been great at the times I have flown with them (Mexicana, Easyjet, Wizzair, Malev, Czech Airlines).

 

I have flown with multiple airlines many times and had a totally different experience with them every time. And so what? It is a means to get from A to B, not a life changing decision that is going to be a major regret for decades to come. None of European and American carriers are unsafe or unsanitary, and although airline food is never great you won't die of it. After a few hours you get out at your destination and all is forgotten.

 

Agree with everything you said!!! And, I had one of my best experiences flying Czech Air from Montreal to Prague...

[ducklite]

Agree that small airports can also be their own brand of hell. Personally, I like a large airport that will have the facilities I need or want. And if I book a connection that requires me to hike for half an hour, then it's my responsibility.

 

Interesting note.....the OP has been MIA (and not Miami) for any followup.

 

Although an interesting comparison would be PHL and ABE. ABE might not have a ton of amenities, but it has free charging stations, free WiFi, never a line at security, pleasant staff, parking that is close to the terminal, etc. PHL has every amenity in the world, but transfers between gates can be a mile away and often require either going through security again or taking a bus, and some of the surliest staff outside a Soviet gulag. And that's before we begin a conversation about "The Dump"--aka Terminal F.

[ducklite]

I very often enjoy your posts!

 

Thank you!

[Lookingforfacts]

Bottom line, passengers need to be responsible for the size of their bottom, not the airlines. Most people who are not overweight do not feel terribly cramped in a coach seat. Frankly I don't want to pay higher fares in order to widen seats because people can't stop shoving crap down their throats and refuse to put down the remote and get off the couch and actually get some exercise.

 

A valid position. People who are at the perfect weight may have an issue with the reduced pitch, reduced (or no) recline and the reduced padding in the slimline seats found in some of the newer configurations.

 

I paid extra for Economy Comfort, TAF. The seat was the worse I've ever had. Coming home I had "regular" economy. The seat was great. I said something to the FA. He said they took half the stuffing out of the seats. We were in an older plane, last minute swap. He said the pilot actually flies the plane.

 

Decreasing comfort of seating is an issue which doesn't just impact customers of size. I understand bringing headphones, sandwich on a domestic flight, eye mask... Having to bring a seat cushion doesn't seem right.

 

From what I've read about half the passengers don't have an issue with the slimline seats.

[ducklite]

A valid position. People who are at the perfect weight may have an issue with the reduced pitch, reduced (or no) recline and the reduced padding in the slimline seats found in some of the newer configurations.

 

I paid extra for Economy Comfort, TAF. The seat was the worse I've ever had. Coming home I had "regular" economy. The seat was great. I said something to the FA. He said they took half the stuffing out of the seats. We were in an older plane, last minute swap. He said the pilot actually flies the plane.

 

Decreasing comfort of seating is an issue which doesn't just impact customers of size. I understand bringing headphones, sandwich on a domestic flight, eye mask... Having to bring a seat cushion doesn't seem right.

 

From what I've read about half the passengers don't have an issue with the slimline seats.

 

I am bringing a travel yoga mat with me, and will use that for padding if need be. It's a better option than paying more for the seat because someone else considers flipping on the TV to be an Olympic sport.

[slidergirl]

I am bringing a travel yoga mat with me, and will use that for padding if need be. It's a better option than paying more for the seat because someone else considers flipping on the TV to be an Olympic sport.

 

Look at self-inflating seat cushions (REI, Thermarest). Or, I've actually heard of some people (from another website for frequent "flyer talk") packing the Thermarest ProLite backpacking pad. 3ftx2ft, 1in thick, self-inflating. Rolls and packs up to about the size of a water bottle. I have one for backpacking - if I were taking a long flight in cattle class, I would consider taking it with me!!!

[ducklite]

Look at self-inflating seat cushions (REI, Thermarest). Or, I've actually heard of some people (from another website for frequent "flyer talk") packing the Thermarest ProLite backpacking pad. 3ftx2ft, 1in thick, self-inflating. Rolls and packs up to about the size of a water bottle. I have one for backpacking - if I were taking a long flight in cattle class, I would consider taking it with me!!!

 

I'm in Premium Economy, so only semi-cattle class. No sense bringing another thing when I already plan on taking the yoga mat which will work fine. Hopefully someone else can use this tip. :)