Compensation for ruined cruise

[Elaine5715]

I think being potty trained is policy. Are you trying to blame the OP because she was trying to follow the policy that children need to be potty-trained to attend the kids club?

 

I would have made the best of it because I was on vacation but I would have been very disappointed for my kids and a little disappointed for myself and DH as well. Cruises are great family vacations. Many lines sell it as that. The husband-wife relationship is an essential part of a healthy, happy family. This relationship gets a recharge on cruises for us whether it's a couples cruise or a family cruise. Knowing your kids are safe and happy allows for a little rekindle for mom and dad.

 

The cruiseline is at fault. My faviorite cruise line, if it is NCL. Gotta say I am a little disappointed with them.

 

What I was trying to say is that the OP asked a hypothetical question and got a hypothetical response and then expected compensation.

[Blk_Amish]

What I was trying to say is that the OP asked a hypothetical question and got a hypothetical response and then expected compensation.

 

My DH said to our son since birth IF you get into the college of your choice we will pay for it. Should we say, oops you worked you butt off and got in but not going to happen and not expect him to be disappointed. When the IF becomes reality some with backbone will stand up or bow down with apology and sympathy. Sorry son, with our gene pool, who would have thought you would be as smart:D The question can be hypothetical but the answer and expectation should be real, IF there is a reasonable chance of it happening.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[donaldsc]

 

PS: I am a non practicing transportation attorney. My older brother is a maritime defense attorney out of CA. Without those specifics, a goodwill gesture by the cruise line is all that could even be thought of. And granting that goodwill gesture is entirely up to the cruise line.

 

I totally agree that the OP has no legal right to any compensation. However, his beef is not totally unreasonable unlike some of the ridiculous "you owe me money" posts on CC.

 

Let's look at it from the business viewpoint. Right now, the OP is probably going to tell everyone that he can that he was treated badly by a specific cruise line. How much business will they loose as a result? How much business will the cruise industry loose since there are other vacation options out there. If the cruise company had given him some sort of reasonable compensation that would not cost them too much money, he would probably be telling people that there was a communications mixup with the cruise company and they did their best to make it right.

 

Think about it from that viewpoint.

 

BTW - I can hardly believe that I am writing this as I usually espouse the "stupid customer is always wrong and deserves what he gets" viewpoint. Hopefully I am not mellowing.

 

DON

[macleay]

Where are you reading that the EXCEPTION applied to this particular child for this particular ship for this particular cruise? What I am reading is the OP emailed the cruise line and someone responded with most likely the general overall policy in effect at the time the email was sent. It also appears that the OP also neglected to take that email even with the general policy stated on the cruise.

 

This from a poster that is very, very good at deciphering policy changes and rules. She is an acknowledged expert on this forum when it comes to all thing passport, PVSA and closed loop cruises.

 

 

 

 

 

If the exceptions stopped at the end of 2012, why would the OP even think the exception would be granted in 2013? If the OP merely got a response to her email stating the policy in effect AT THE TIME of the email and that email response does NOT state the SPECIFIC child, ship and cruise date, why would anyone think the policy would be inferred to be extended a year past the exception date?

 

I'm not sticking up for the cruiseline. I just think the OP KNEW there was a policy change, got a generic response from the cruise line and then it appears the OP didn't even take the generic response, let alone ask for a SPECIFIC response relating to her child and the exception.

 

Lots of fault all the way around. If the cruise line offered OBC or FCC, is that going to make the OP happy? Most likely not. I am reading "money back". And that just isn't going to happen nor is there any legal basis for it UNLESS that email is SPECIFIC to that child, that ship and that sailing date.

 

Maybe the OP will be kind enough to post her communication with the cruise line rep.

 

We are all making some assumptions based upon the original email. I am assuming that when she contacted the cruise line directly about her cruise and the new rules that she was specific. I can't see why she would pose a generic question to get a generic answer, but that's just me. Because she was already booked on the cruise and this specifically affected her, I'm assuming that she gave sufficient information to feel confident that her child would be let in.

[SuitCaseBears]

What would you have done if your 2 year old was able to go and absolutely hated the kids club and didn't want to go back after the first try?

 

BINGO. Even if the kids club was available, it might have made the cruise worse not better. Maybe the counselor wouldn't have been to your liking, maybe your kid would have been the only one his/her age and everyone else would have ignored your kid.

 

If you didn't want to be primarily responsible for you child, you should have left the child home.

 

It's an amenity. If it was that important an amenity to you I would have checked back several times. If there was an extra charge for it, I would expect that to be refunded. Otherwise, move on - find something to be happy about. Don't make the small stuff into a big thing.

[Laurie S.]

I just don't get people who have kids and then don't want them around. Other than one time when I was about three months old, my parents took me everywhere. Sure I had babysitters when I was young and we weren't traveling, but we traveled together and did things together on all our trips.

[ducklite]

I just don't get people who have kids and then don't want them around. Other than one time when I was about three months old, my parents took me everywhere. Sure I had babysitters when I was young and we weren't traveling, but we traveled together and did things together on all our trips.

 

 

This thread is not about parenting choices but rather whether the cruise line screwed up and if the OP is entitled to compensation as a result. Perhaps you could find another forum where your opinions on what constitutes appropriate parenting are actually relevant to the conversation.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[Blk_Amish]

I just don't get people who have kids and then don't want them around. Other than one time when I was about three months old, my parents took me everywhere. Sure I had babysitters when I was young and we weren't traveling, but we traveled together and did things together on all our trips.

 

1. I like spending time by myself --- (solo vacation the last 2 years)

2. I like spending time with my spouse----- (couples vacation each year)

3. There are certain places appropriate for me but not them (Last Vegas in a few days)

4. They can be a whining pain in the butt

5. They can be drain on the pocket

6. It gives them chance to interact with their own age -----(church, camp, school, kids program)

7. It gives them time to be away from me

8. They are apart of my world not the center of my universe

9. I miss them when they are gone ----( sometimes)

10. They appreciate me more when I am back------(pick up here, there, and everywhere).

11. They learn to be independent ---( one in college)

12. Give them a chance to spread their wings

13. Prepare them for a life without me ----- (their own family)

14. Prepare me for a life without them ---- ( world cruise)

15. Time with you spouse can be the glue that holds your family together and keep their world intact.

 

All this is beside the point, how could this situation be best handled?

Edited December 21, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[greatam]

I totally agree that the OP has no legal right to any compensation. However, his beef is not totally unreasonable unlike some of the ridiculous "you owe me money" posts on CC.

 

Let's look at it from the business viewpoint. Right now, the OP is probably going to tell everyone that he can that he was treated badly by a specific cruise line. How much business will they loose as a result? How much business will the cruise industry loose since there are other vacation options out there. If the cruise company had given him some sort of reasonable compensation that would not cost them too much money, he would probably be telling people that there was a communications mixup with the cruise company and they did their best to make it right.

 

Think about it from that viewpoint.

 

BTW - I can hardly believe that I am writing this as I usually espouse the "stupid customer is always wrong and deserves what he gets" viewpoint. Hopefully I am not mellowing.

 

DON

 

I will agree with you up to a point. In fact, that is exactly what I posted from a non legal perspective. BUT I just get the feeling that the OP will NOT be happy with FCC or OBC. When you start the conversation with a thread title "Compensation for a RUINED cruise", you really think they want to go back on the same cruise line unless they get either a totally FREE cruise or some cash? Just my gut feeling.

 

And how much business will a cruise line loose from this complaint? VERY, VERY little IMHO.

They weren't stranded, they weren't hungry, they weren't cold. And until everyone actually knows how the OP worded the email and the response from the cruise line, the only thing they really missed was 3-4 hours per day at the kids club for the 2 year old.

 

If I heard those complaints coming from a friend, I would not pay much attention. You missed a port because of weather??? Your older child wouldn't go to the kids club because the younger one couldn't go? WAAAAAH!!!

 

Sounds like my friends last night trying out a new restaurant. It has gotten raves but it is Asian fusion/Continental. They wanted steak (why they went there I'll never figure it out). Their steaks came with some kind of sauce on it. My question to her this morning-did you read the menu? Well, not very much of it. We knew we wanted steak so we ordered sirloins. But it had sauce all over it. WAAAAH!!!

 

Read the menu, read the fine print in your cruise documents. And if you don't like what you see, ask for what you want. The worst anyone can say is NO. And that certainly clarifies the subject.

Edited December 21, 2013 by greatam

[sherilyn70]

My DH said to our son since birth IF you get into the college of your choice we will pay for it. Should we say, oops you worked you butt off and got in but not going to happen and not expect him to be disappointed. When the IF becomes reality some with backbone will stand up or bow down with apology and sympathy. Sorry son, with our gene pool, who would have thought you would be as smart:D The question can be hypothetical but the answer and expectation should be real, IF there is a reasonable chance of it happening.

 

If things change financially and it is no longer possible I would make sure they understand that as soon as we were sure. You can't promise something 12 years in advance and not think something could change between the and now. You could become unemployed for 2 years and go through your savings, one of you could die (this is a reality we face with the 7 year old since I'm technically only give a few years left), you could suffer from any number of devastating losses you could never predict. Stuff happens and you can't possibly expect things to be perfect.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

[Karysa]

When people veer off and blame a poster about their personal choices and not the main points and reasons for the thread in the first place they are essentially throwing in the towel and admitting that their original arguments that that the cruiseline holds no fault is just plain wrong and undefendable. We see this here on this thread where folks are taking direct aim at the parents for wanting a little alone time while on vacation.

 

The fact that the oldest young son has empathy beyond his years is a really good indication that these are well adjusted boys in a loving home. I am so very impressed that the older boy showed concern for the younger one I just can not put it into words. Empathy is such a great trait. :)

[macleay]

I will agree with you up to a point. In fact, that is exactly what I posted from a non legal perspective. BUT I just get the feeling that the OP will NOT be happy with FCC or OBC. When you start the conversation with a thread title "Compensation for a RUINED cruise", you really think they want to go back on the same cruise line unless they get either a totally FREE cruise or some cash? Just my gut feeling.

 

And how much business will a cruise line loose from this complaint? VERY, VERY little IMHO.

They weren't stranded, they weren't hungry, they weren't cold. And until everyone actually knows how the OP worded the email and the response from the cruise line, the only thing they really missed was 3-4 hours per day at the kids club for the 2 year old.

 

If I heard those complaints coming from a friend, I would not pay much attention. You missed a port because of weather??? Your older child wouldn't go to the kids club because the younger one couldn't go? WAAAAAH!!!

 

Sounds like my friends last night trying out a new restaurant. It has gotten raves but it is Asian fusion/Continental. They wanted steak (why they went there I'll never figure it out). Their steaks came with some kind of sauce on it. My question to her this morning-did you read the menu? Well, not very much of it. We knew we wanted steak so we ordered sirloins. But it had sauce all over it. WAAAAH!!!

 

Read the menu, read the fine print in your cruise documents. And if you don't like what you see, ask for what you want. The worst anyone can say is NO. And that certainly clarifies the subject.

 

And that's exactly what they did. They asked and were given a response that wasn't honored.

 

I just wanted to comment on your feelings about the OP not being happy no matter what they got. I didn't get that impression. They were just asking what we thought was fair. I'm not one to whine or complain about stuff on cruises and try to make the best of things that are out of my control. I didn't pay attention to OP's complaint about the port being cancelled, etc., because I agree that "them's the breaks", those things happen and people need to roll with it.

 

But I see the kids things as being different because OP didn't just sit back and let this happen, they cared enough to check and get in writing that their child could get in. It mattered to them. And the representative of the cruise company assured them that their youngest would be able to get in. That makes the situation different in my opinion than just something unfortunate that happened on the cruise.

[sail7seas]

I wish OP would return and join in the conversation.

 

I also would like to read the e-mail OP received stating their son would be an exception to the new rule.

[Karysa]

Regarding compensation. This is a tough one. That would mean that they admit guilt. Can't see this happening although I think that it should. I would say 25% of the child's fare would be about right if there was a right.

 

I think that if the ship could not allow the child in to the kids club that they should have at least offered some evenings of free babysitting. I think that the ships crew could have handled this situation much, much better then they did.

[greatam]

We are all making some assumptions based upon the original email. I am assuming that when she contacted the cruise line directly about her cruise and the new rules that she was specific. I can't see why she would pose a generic question to get a generic answer, but that's just me. Because she was already booked on the cruise and this specifically affected her, I'm assuming that she gave sufficient information to feel confident that her child would be let in.

 

I can certainly visualize someone writing this in November 2012: We are on XXX ship on Nov 12, 2013. (Maybe the reservation # included). We just found out that our 2 year old may not be able to get into the kids club because of new rules and age limits. Is my 2 year old going to be allowed into the kids club?

 

And I can visualize the CSR writing back: Our policy is to allow children age 2 who are potty trained and booked before the rules change into the kids club. The new policy has been phased in and the new rules will take effect on Jan 1, 2013.

 

And I can certainly see where the confusion comes in. The second sentence from the CSR was ignored/overlooked and not made very clear to the OP.

 

Now if the OP would have written something like this AFTER she got the initial response from the CSR, TOTALLY different story: So Johnny YYY, who is potty trained and only 2, will be allowed in the kids club on XXXX ship on the Nov 12, 2013 sailing???

 

And CSR writes back-YES. Then that email is positive proof that Johnny would be allowed into the kids club even though he was only 2 and the new rules are in effect only allowing 3 year olds in.

 

But I will make a pretty good guess that the OP wrote something very similar to what I wrote and got back the "canned" response from the CSR.

 

One big reason I asked the OP to post the communication between parties.

[Karysa]

What a fascinating thread! I've read every post and I'm getting the feeling that my mind will explode if I read any more. The one thought that keeps coming to mind is "How can a company that provides hospitality services directly to customers possibly stay in business?" There are at least four very vocal people on this and other threads I have seen them post on, that take the approach "Everything is about me!" That any change made MUST always in their favor, and NEVER to keep the company solvent. Then there are the people that expect us to actually take responsibility for the results of our own actions - how totally unreasonable of them! Do you realize how much effort that would take? :rolleyes:

 

If I were thinking of starting a company providing hospitality services and I happened upon this thread, I would think twice about bothering, knowing that there will be some people who won't be satisfied until I go bankrupt giving them everything they demand, no matter who was at fault, and no matter how unreasonable it may be. I would be petrified at the thought of making even simple changes to keep my business alive, knowing how angry people would become about "what was taken away" from them. :eek:

 

I have been around for possibly too long. I was raised in an era where people were reasonable towards each other. Sadly, that era is ancient history for many people, most of them the younger generations who seem intent on having everything catered to their every desire, and who think that personal responsibility is a commodity to be bargained for in order to gain the most advantages. :(

 

I also find it disturbing that the OP would start a thread and then disappear when so many people have asked for clarification on some of the details of their situation.

 

I don't think that you and I were ever on the same side of a discussion. Now that you have posted I feel reassured that once again I am on the correct side.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Karysa

[greatam]

But I see the kids things as being different because OP didn't just sit back and let this happen, they cared enough to check and get in writing that their child could get in. It mattered to them. And the representative of the cruise company assured them that their youngest would be able to get in. That makes the situation different in my opinion than just something unfortunate that happened on the cruise.

 

We don't know this. See my subsequent post.

[greatam]

I wish OP would return and join in the conversation.

 

I also would like to read the e-mail OP received stating their son would be an exception to the new rule.

 

Ditto

[Blk_Amish]

If things change financially and it is no longer possible I would make sure they understand that as soon as we were sure. You can't promise something 12 years in advance and not think something could change between the and now. You could become unemployed for 2 years and go through your savings, one of you could die (this is a reality we face with the 7 year old since I'm technically only give a few years left), you could suffer from any number of devastating losses you could never predict. Stuff happens and you can't possibly expect things to be perfect.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S4

 

Since that promise was made I had another child, 2 open heart surgeries, and my DH cancer. What if my child later asked IF I could still go to the college of his choice and I say yes, go ahead but upon selecting college we say, nay you have to stay home with us. Of course someone would say don't be disappointed, you have a place to stay, not that we failed to informed him so he could prepare. Some people just don't like to be lied to while others see it as a part of dealing with business. In an ear of technology and apps, this should be an easy fix. As for compensation, pfff, not much could have been given for me to think it's worth it because I wouldn't believe. I have had vacation where things were promised that was not true but I felt confident in how it was handled.

 

On the rest you are preaching to the choir. Eighteen years post heart surgeries so let hope that 20 years gaurantee works and beyond:D

Edited December 21, 2013 by Blk_Amish

[swsfrail]

I don't think that you and I were ever on the same side of a discussion. Now that you have posted I feel reassured that once again I am on the correct side.

 

My father had a saying that I has served me well over all these years: "Everyone had a right to be wrong". Not being a hypocrite, I can't complain about YOUR right to be wrong, now can I? :D

 

As to you and I being on the same side of a discussion - I don't think that will ever happen. I don't see life with the entitlement perspective that you do, so no, we will always be on different sides. I am in my mid 80s. I have been through too much, including the Great Depression and WWII, to think that I am owed anything in life. I have learned that life is what we make of it, not what we can get from someone else.

Edited December 21, 2013 by swsfrail

[Karysa]

My father had a saying that I has served me well over all these years: "Everyone had a right to be wrong". Not being a hypocrite, I can't complain about YOUR right to be wrong, now can I? :D

 

I can not articulate just how happy I am that you came down on the opposite side of me again on this. You laugh but I am really serious. :)

[Laurie S.]

This thread is not about parenting choices but rather whether the cruise line screwed up and if the OP is entitled to compensation as a result. Perhaps you could find another forum where your opinions on what constitutes appropriate parenting are actually relevant to the conversation.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

 

Who went and made you a moderator? The OP is not entitled to any compensation, if this event even happened.

[Karysa]

My father had a saying that I has served me well over all these years: "Everyone had a right to be wrong". Not being a hypocrite, I can't complain about YOUR right to be wrong, now can I? :D

 

As to you and I being on the same side of a discussion - I don't think that will ever happen. I don't see life with the entitlement perspective that you do, so no, we will always be on different sides. I am in my mid 80s. I have been through too much, including the Great Depression and WWII, to think that I am owed anything in life. I have learned that life is what we make of it, not what we can get from someone else.

 

Gosh I should have figured that it wasn't your fault.

[spookwife]

LOL, The truth is like cream, it eventually rises to the top.

 

If you took the time to inquire about the change and was deceived as the OP was, then yes you should be upset. I suppose you have kids and actually might like them but can appreciate a few minutes with adults and even your spouse. No different with the OP. They got something in writing and replied on it, that's reasonable and not bad parenting as some implied.

 

Where did you read about demanding huge compensation?

 

yes I did call and was politely told that as of X date children would be allowed and that no plans were in place to allow anyone who had a problem with that to change or cancel their reservation. and yes we were past final payment and no our travel insurance did not cover policy changes (and no no kids here with no way of changing that situation)

 

as for the huge compensation thing: my interpretation of the OP's first post and overstating that her cruise was completely ruined. furthermore she has not yet given us her preferred method/a type/amount of compensation. I mean what IS acceptable for having to spend an extra 18 hours with your kid? how do you quantify how much his 'sadness' is worth?

 

and yes I know parents like free alone adult time. I get that and fully agree it is necessary to raise happy healthy kids and not go insane doing it. But what do you do when the kids get sick last minute and all your plans get tossed out the window? our Wardroom Holiday party was the other day, and a few parents had to split up and the civilian spouse stayed home cuz the kids were sick. I the wardroom won't refund the ticket cost as the food and drinks were there, and it is a shame that you weren't able to enjoy but oh well.

[spookwife]

My father had a saying that I has served me well over all these years: "Everyone had a right to be wrong". Not being a hypocrite, I can't complain about YOUR right to be wrong, now can I? :D

 

As to you and I being on the same side of a discussion - I don't think that will ever happen. I don't see life with the entitlement perspective that you do, so no, we will always be on different sides. I am in my mid 80s. I have been through too much, including the Great Depression and WWII, to think that I am owed anything in life. I have learned that life is what we make of it, not what we can get from someone else.

 

do you need another granddaughter? I just lost mine back in September and I am feeling a little needy. I was raised the same way you were ( and in fact have been told I am an idiot for not 'demanding' extra privileges and compensation due to my disability or to insist that I get a military discount on everything I buy) so you don't have to worry about philosophical differences.... ;)