Checking Out Your Life Boat Mates

[Dayenu]

I am past the age of sizing up young men ;)

 

And the Muster Drill will never be the same from now on :eek:

[chengkp75]

I am reasonably confident that the crew members assigned as lifeboat coxswain so would have been trained as such - but given the staffing realities o cruise ships I would doubt that there would be the necessary twenty or so whose primary function would be as able seamen or bosuns. There is no reason why a bar tender or waiter could not be sufficiently trained to be able to perform in such function as a collateral duty --- just as on a number of ships the emergency procedures ( donning of life preservers, etc.) instruction is carried out by dancers, other entertainers, or members of cruise director staff.

 

Of course, when push comes to shove, even able seamen (and, as was shown on board Costa Concordia) or possibly even ships officers might let the ball drop in a true emergency.

 

So, OP made a good observation - if you are contemplating emergency situations (as you do during a muster drill) it surely does make sense to contemplate the possible necessity of passengers stepping forward.

 

Late to the thread (it was started while I was working), but let me clear up a few things. SOLAS requires that a "certified lifeboatman" be in charge of each lifeboat, and that a second in charge be designated as well. Generally, the customary 150 person lifeboat will have a crew of 3-4. Now, here's where it becomes sticky. Any licensed officer (deck or engine officer) is required to be a lifeboatman, so the cruise lines use these 10-12 officers (including the Captain) in the count of lifeboatmen required. This means the cruise line only needs to pay to train 6-8 more crew as lifeboatmen. However, the officers will normally NOT be anywhere near the boats, as their emergency stations are elsewhere dealing with the emergency. The signal passengers relate to abandon ship (more than 6 short blasts, followed by one long blast), is actually the signal for fire and general emergency. So at some point, the Captain will make a decision to get the passengers from their muster stations into the boats, and launch the boats. This is STILL not "abandon ship". Once the passenger boats are away, then the Captain will decide that it is time to abandon ship, and that signal (one continuous blast) will direct the crew to leave their emergency stations and head to their abandon ship stations (the liferafts).

 

Now, on international ships, the crew can volunteer for basic safety training, and these would then be assigned as lifeboat crew. However, there is no requirement that anyone assigned to a lifeboat as crew, other than the "certified lifeboatman", actually receive training other than the weekly crew drills. And, as I've said, most of those certified lifeboatmen are not going to be getting into the boats.

 

The USCG recognizes this, and on the NCL US flag ships (now just the POA), while the deck and engine officers were required to have a lifeboatman certificate, they were not counted towards the total number of certified lifeboatmen required to man the boats. This ensures that a lifeboatman is actually going to be in charge of the boat. The USCG also requires everyone on the POA to have a mariner's credential, and have completed "basic safety training" which includes lifeboat and liferaft handling and basic firefighting.

 

Also remember, the people who guide you from your muster station, and take the accountability are not the boat crew either, they will remain behind until the crew takes to the rafts.

 

Despite my years of training and drilling, I never really knew whether or not I would be one who ran towards the fire. Happily, I found that I am one. No one can tell, not even yourself, until the moment is upon you. Training helps, drilling makes it "muscle memory", but until you look the beast in the eye, you never know.

 

On a lighter note, I would definitely be eyeballing the crew in my raft for the tenderest looking ones, because the rafts have even less food onboard than the boats. :p

[taglovestocruise]

Interesting post. I have always felt that it would be necessary for some of the passengers to step forward to offer help/support to the assigned boat crew. I'm not sure how many actually qualified seamen are in a modern cruise ship's deck department - I'm sure a qualified coxswain would be assigned to each boat, but any additional crew members in each boat might well be waiters or bar tenders.

 

If they have bar tenders on the lifeboat will they then allow rumrunners.

[Kartgv]

On the question of whether or not I would be a helpful asset or a basket-case liability...as most have said, we'll only know if/when it happens. Luckily the only relevant circumstances I can come up with is all those parenting incidents like "seriously cut and bleeding" or "asthma attack/not breathing" or "apartment filled with smoke, something's on fire!"; I was always able to quickly respond logically, figure out what needed done, and how/where to start. Once the crisis was over, I completely fell apart. Hopefully, if I were ever in a ship emergency, I would have the same presence of mind, even at a more advanced age. I do always pay attention to where my muster station is located, how to get there from our cabin or the places where we spend most of our time.

 

On the other hand, I was the one who once was reprimanded for not behaving seriously enough at a muster drill. At the question & answer period, someone asked "How many people does this boat hold"; the crew member in charge said "50"(long ago, very small ship!). The next question was "Wow, how many of us are there here?". Without thinking, I opened my mouth and said "51". Everyone laughed except the crew member.

 

When you consider how many passengers have gone to sea on cruise ships in the last 50 years or so, and what percentage of them actually ever had to abandon ship in the lifeboats (have there been any in that period?), it puts the whole discussion is perspective. But, it's still worth paying attention to emergency procedures wherever you go, whether it's a cruise ship (muster station) or a hotel/auditorium/high rise building (what's the route to your nearest exit?). We don't need to obsess about it, but being aware just might save our lives someday.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Kartgv

[ducklite]

 

 

 

When you consider how many passengers have gone to sea on cruise ships in the last 50 years or so, and what percentage of them actually ever had to abandon ship in the lifeboats (have there been any in that period?), it puts the whole discussion is perspective. But, it's still worth paying attention to emergency procedures wherever you go, whether it's a cruise ship (muster station) or a hotel/auditorium/high rise building (what's the route to your nearest exit?). We don't need to obsess about it, but being aware just might save our lives someday.

 

 

The only one I can think of was the Wind Star Wind Sing which went down in flames in French Polynesia 10 (?) years ago. Ship was a total loss, there were no deaths or injuries. All passengers had high praise for the crew.

[Honolulu Blue]

If you're in a safety drill where you go to your muster station with everyone else who'll be on your life boat if you ever need to abandon ship, do you check out your potential life boat mates?

 

I always look around to see who and how many people might need extra help, and who looks strong enough to help. I look around to see if there are people who look like they might step up and be helpful to the crew, or who might become one of those unofficial leaders who seem to emerge in emergencies.

 

I do check people out, but not for the reasons described. It's not a bad idea; I may give a passing thought to it next time.

[Krazy Kruizers]

This may be an odd question - or I just may be very odd... but...

 

If you're in a safety drill where you go to your muster station with everyone else who'll be on your life boat if you ever need to abandon ship, do you check out your potential life boat mates?

 

I always look around to see who and how many people might need extra help, and who looks strong enough to help. I look around to see if there are people who look like they might step up and be helpful to the crew, or who might become one of those unofficial leaders who seem to emerge in emergencies.

 

I know you can't tell from just looking at people (I probably look like a little old lady who might need some help) and that even if you could, emergencies change people: ditzy people become focused and organized, pushy people hang back or visa versa.

 

But does anyone else study your potential life boat mates? Or did I just admit to something really really odd?

 

 

Yes -- more so the last couple of years since I am now partially handicapped and may need help.

[chengkp75]

The only one I can think of was the Wind Star Wind Sing which went down in flames in French Polynesia 10 (?) years ago. Ship was a total loss, there were no deaths or injuries. All passengers had high praise for the crew.

 

Well, one with a big "C" on the funnel sticks in my mind. Also the Carnival Celebration in 1995, and the one in Mykonos a few years back, don't remember the name.

[ducklite]

Well, one with a big "C" on the funnel sticks in my mind. Also the Carnival Celebration in 1995, and the one in Mykonos a few years back, don't remember the name.

 

 

You have a better memory than I. :)

[Aquahound]

Well, one with a big "C" on the funnel sticks in my mind. Also the Carnival Celebration in 1995, and the one in Mykonos a few years back, don't remember the name.

 

Exactly. How could anyone forget the Concordia? :confused: Also, Monarch of the Seas nearly sank after running aground years ago in the Caribbean. And look, as I type this, I'm watching news footage of a large passenger ferry sinking off S. Korea. 4 dead so far.

 

Ref Mykonos...Are you thinking of the Sea Diamond that sank in Santorini in 2007?

[chengkp75]

Exactly. How could anyone forget the Concordia? :confused: Also, Monarch of the Seas nearly sank after running aground years ago in the Caribbean. And look, as I type this, I'm watching news footage of a large passenger ferry sinking off S. Korea. 4 dead so far.

 

Ref Mykonos...Are you thinking of the Sea Diamond that sank in Santorini in 2007?

 

Yeah, that's the one. Didn't they just now sentence the Captain for that? There was also that Russian ship off Canada last month. Untold number of ferries, as well.

[ivstkr]

I thought I was the only one that did that. I also do it when I fly, check out the person sitting near the emergency exits.

[ducklite]

I thought I was the only one that did that. I also do it when I fly, check out the person sitting near the emergency exits.

 

 

I get very nervous when I see people who are obviously very out of shape or who are pounding back the drinks sitting in the exit rows. They should only allow a limited amount of alcohol (one drink per hour max) for anyone who wants those seats, and not allow people who are obviously out of shape in them. Anyone huffing and puffing just to get to the gate, down the jetway, and into their seat is NOT in good enough physical shape to help in an emergency.

[ducklite]

Yeah, that's the one. Didn't they just now sentence the Captain for that? There was also that Russian ship off Canada last month. Untold number of ferries, as well.

 

 

Many if not most of the worst ferry disasters happen in developing nations with very overloaded boats and a lack of basic safeguards. I thought we were talking specifically of cruise ships.

[Aquahound]

Yeah, that's the one. Didn't they just now sentence the Captain for that? There was also that Russian ship off Canada last month. Untold number of ferries, as well.

 

..and didn't a small cruise ship capsize and sink off Antarctica a couple years ago? And although it didn't sink, lets not forget about the Star Princess fire. There are many reasons to pay attention at a drill.

[chengkp75]

Many if not most of the worst ferry disasters happen in developing nations with very overloaded boats and a lack of basic safeguards. I thought we were talking specifically of cruise ships.

 

Perhaps, but to me, a passenger vessel is a passenger vessel. And don't forget the ferry sinkings of the Queen of the North in Canada, the Herald of Free Enterprise in Belgium, and the Estonia in the Baltic, not exactly developing countries.

[ducklite]

Perhaps, but to me, a passenger vessel is a passenger vessel. And don't forget the ferry sinkings of the Queen of the North in Canada, the Herald of Free Enterprise in Belgium, and the Estonia in the Baltic, not exactly developing countries.

 

 

Which is why I didn't say "all."

[erinmarie424]

This may be an odd question - or I just may be very odd... but...

 

If you're in a safety drill where you go to your muster station with everyone else who'll be on your life boat if you ever need to abandon ship, do you check out your potential life boat mates?

 

I always look around to see who and how many people might need extra help, and who looks strong enough to help. I look around to see if there are people who look like they might step up and be helpful to the crew, or who might become one of those unofficial leaders who seem to emerge in emergencies.

 

I know you can't tell from just looking at people (I probably look like a little old lady who might need some help) and that even if you could, emergencies change people: ditzy people become focused and organized, pushy people hang back or visa versa.

 

But does anyone else study your potential life boat mates? Or did I just admit to something really really odd?

 

 

I do this not only at muster drill but also every time I fly. I take a good look at the folks in the exit rows since they are the ones that will need to MOVE if we have to get out fast. I'm a woman in my mid40's in average physical condition so I know I'm not going to be a hero by doing anything physical like carrying anyone, etc.... Based on life/work experience I'd rate myself in about the top 25% of the general population in leadership skills and I just like to see if the group I find myself in skews higher toward the top 25% or the lower 75% so I know if I might need to step up if the situation warrants it. Muster drills go by much quicker with all of this needless worry and evaluation of my fellow passengers going through my head, lol.

[chengkp75]

All senior officers are required to take training in "Crowd and Crisis Management". One thing they teach is that there will be 3 groups within any crowd:

 

1. The sheep. Those who need to be led, and will not act to save themselves.

2. The survivors. Those who can be counted on to act coherently and work to save themselves and their families.

3. The leaders. Those you can count on to assist others when asked, and to assist you getting the other two groups to safety.

 

It takes a lot of practice to be able to break a crowd down into these 3 groups, especially when the poop is in the fan. A lot of it is very subtle, like body language and personal space issues.

[ducklite]

All senior officers are required to take training in "Crowd and Crisis Management". One thing they teach is that there will be 3 groups within any crowd:

 

 

 

1. The sheep. Those who need to be led, and will not act to save themselves.

 

2. The survivors. Those who can be counted on to act coherently and work to save themselves and their families.

 

3. The leaders. Those you can count on to assist others when asked, and to assist you getting the other two groups to safety.

 

 

 

It takes a lot of practice to be able to break a crowd down into these 3 groups, especially when the poop is in the fan. A lot of it is very subtle, like body language and personal space issues.

 

 

Yup. Other than first aid and CPR, I have no formal training in disaster response. Yet I have twice in the past year taken charge at the scene of a MVA with serious injuries and given direction to bystanders (anything from "hold this here" to "get the hell out if here if you didn't witness the accident or don't have medical training.") It never ceases to amaze me at how people will simply comply when someone tells them what to do, even if that person isn't technically a first responder or any type of authority.

 

I think that often people want to help, but just have no idea of what to do until someone gives them specific direction.

[6rugrats]

The only one I can think of was the Wind Star Wind Sing which went down in flames in French Polynesia 10 (?) years ago. Ship was a total loss, there were no deaths or injuries. All passengers had high praise for the crew.

 

The Windsong did not go down in flames. The fire (12/01/2002) was put out by the French Navy, who towed the ship to Papeete. The government then demanded payment for its services, and the FP government seized the ship. HAL (under Carnival, which owned Windstar Cruises at that time), refused to pay, and it wasn't economically feasible to scrap the ship.

 

So, finally the Windsong was towed between Moorea and Tahiti and sunk in 2003.

Edited April 20, 2014 by 6rugrats

[Sue Do-Over]

DH and I have had this exact conversation... we'd had the same thought at the same time while we waited for the drill to start.

 

*HE* would be standing at the rail, helping old people and families into the boat and directing them to seats.

 

*I* would be telling people (if we had time) to grab shoes that stay on, a jacket, medications and ID. And, I'd be the one making sure that nobody tried to drag luggage onto the lifeboat.

 

It would be orderly, except for when I had to wrestle luggage out of someone's hand. The two of us would be the last aboard, and we'd all be safe and warm.

 

We entertained ourselves with the conversation, just like we'd think about how to build shelter when watching any of those survive-in-the-wild shows. All the while acknowledging that in all but the most dire circumstances, the big boat will be more secure than the little ones.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Sue Do-Over

[ducklite]

The Windsong did not go down in flames. The fire (12/01/2002) was put out by the French Navy, who towed the ship to Papeete. The government then demanded payment for its services, and the FP government seized the ship. HAL (under Carnival, which owned Windstar Cruises at that time), refused to pay, and it wasn't economically feasible to scrap the ship.

 

So, finally the Windsong was towed between Moorea and Tahiti and sunk in 2003.

 

I was trying to make a long story short. Bottom line, it had a fire, it ended up at the bottom of the ocean. :)

[ducklite]

DH and I have had this exact conversation... we'd had the same thought at the same time while we waited for the drill to start.

 

*HE* would be standing at the rail, helping old people and families into the boat and directing them to seats.

 

*I* would be telling people (if we had time) to grab shoes that stay on, a jacket, medications and ID. And, I'd be the one making sure that nobody tried to drag luggage onto the lifeboat.

 

It would be orderly, except for when I had to wrestle luggage out of someone's hand. The two of us would be the last aboard, and we'd all be safe and warm.

 

We entertained ourselves with the conversation, just like we'd think about how to build shelter when watching any of those survive-in-the-wild shows. All the while acknowledging that in all but the most dire circumstances, the big boat will be more secure than the little ones.

 

Be careful with generalizations about luggage. Some people might have medical needs that require them to bring a piece of luggage with medications, portable nebulizers, or any number of other lifesaving items.

[Sue Do-Over]

Be careful with generalizations about luggage. Some people might have medical needs that require them to bring a piece of luggage with medications, portable nebulizers, or any number of other lifesaving items.

 

Oh, of course. My insulin pump requires an assortment of supplies, so I get the distinction. I meant the luggage-luggage, with some lady swearing that her rolling suitcase of evening gowns/Jimmy Choos/Coach bags was too expensive to leave behind. THAT's the bag that gets left on board.

 

In an emergency: shoes, jacket, ID/money (on your person, in case your body needs to be identified later) and medical supplies/medications -- preferably in a ziplock bag, in case it gets wet in the raft.