Just an Idea -Older Ships; Shorter Cruises

[cruiseapril]

Have been reading this forum for years. Enjoy HAL very much.

 

Question? Does anyone else feel that HAL might be wise to have the older ships do shorter cruises -more 7 day and perhaps some 5 day? (And not the 10 and 14 day etc.)

 

We personally would enjoy 5 day cruises on HAL- because of the work schedules of family members. Also, would prefer going on longer cruises on ships like the Noordam (which we have) rather than on the older ships.

 

Please understand- we like the older ships and the smaller ships, but note so many problems with them these days. (A friend and her husband went on the Statendam and had problems.)

 

I know everyone will be kind and gentle with their responses. Thanks.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Absolutely NOT!!

As we do not live near a cruise port, it is quite a hassle for us to get to the ships.

We will not book any cruise under 14 days.

And smaller ships can get into more ports than the larger ships -- like St Barts, etc.

[cruiseapril]

Is there any hope that HAL will build more small ships?

[superoma]

Is there any hope that HAL will build more small ships?

 

My understanding is that the newest ship will be about like the Eurodam so I doubt they will be building smaller ships - economy of scale and all that.

 

We like the smaller ships but for longer cruises like KK but if they continue to do them, some of the glaring issues with toilets and A/C need to be fixed or people will just stop booking them.

[cruiseapril]

That is why we were wondering if the older ships could be used for shorter cruises and the newer for the 14 day and more 10 day cruises with more varied ports.

 

Understand the appeal of smaller ships- we like them also. Also understand about being able to visit ports like St. Barts. Given the popularity of the smaller ships, it would seem that at least one or two new ones could be built.

 

Question? How long can the smaller ships last with repairs?

10 more years, 20 more years?

[cruiseapril]

KK- The 10 and 14 day cruises are very important and excellent for so

many. My suggestion was certainly not to change that - but to switch to the

newer ships for the majority of the longer, varied cruises.

 

As I mentioned, we prefer the smaller ships and understand their need and popularity- but are concerned about how long they will last and why no plans

are being made to build a few ships the size of the Maasdam. It would seem to be in HAL's interest to continue with some smaller ships.

 

As I mentioned, how long can these older ships last?

[rafinmd]

I'm sorry, but I really can't see any relation between size/age of the ships and suitability for longer cruises.

 

Perhaps, in fact, it's the shorter cruises that are more suited to a mass audience and support the larger ships.

 

Roy

[kazu]

I'm sorry, but I really can't see any relation between size/age of the ships and suitability for longer cruises.

 

Perhaps, in fact, it's the shorter cruises that are more suited to a mass audience and support the larger ships.

 

Roy

 

the bolding is mine. I agree. Fewer people take longer cruises (time, being one of the factors) so the smaller ships are traditionally used for those and the larger ships for the shorter, more popular cruises

[cruiseapril]

The size of the ship makes no difference at all in the length of cruises, IMO. Smaller ships are better for longer cruises, I think.

 

But- the age and condition of a ship is what concerns us. It must concern others.(That is why we wonder why HAL has not replaced the older, smaller ships for the 14 day+ cruises.)

 

The age of the ship might be of concern- if it has many maintenance problems. (The smaller HAL ships are older, true?)

 

For instance, if the smaller, older ships are traveling more miles per year, that might be a factor. If the older ships are going farther from home port, that might make a difference.

 

Our hope is simply that the older, smaller ships (on all lines) be well maintained OR replaced. (The idea of going to bigger and bigger ships just doesn't seem to be working. HAL has the wonderful small ships. How can they be sustained?

 

 

Does anyone know how long the smaller, older ships can be used?

That is our main concern.

 

Just asking questions. Thanks.

[Padraic]

Question? How long can the smaller ships last with repairs?

10 more years, 20 more years?

 

The Prinsendam went into service (as the Royal Viking Sun) in 1988. After 26 years it is still my favorite ship and a number of other folks.

[Krazy Kruizers]

KK- The 10 and 14 day cruises are very important and excellent for so

many. My suggestion was certainly not to change that - but to switch to the

newer ships for the majority of the longer, varied cruises.

 

As I mentioned, we prefer the smaller ships and understand their need and popularity- but are concerned about how long they will last and why no plans

are being made to build a few ships the size of the Maasdam. It would seem to be in HAL's interest to continue with some smaller ships.

 

As I mentioned, how long can these older ships last?

 

If you check itineraries, HAL will do longer cruises in Europe on the Vista and Signature ships -- docks over there can handle bigger ships.

The Caribbean can't. Thus that would mean more tender ports. And many of us that are handicapped have problems with tenders.

HAL's original idea when the Vista class ships came out was to have just 7 day cruises. Object -- get them on the ship, get their money and get them off the ship.

[cruiseapril]

Do you think it will be in service for 10 or 20 more years? Hope so.

[cruiseapril]

KK- Then why isn't HAL designing some new smaller ships? It would make so much sense to keep the status quo and a balance of smaller and larger ships. Let the other lines go bigger- but keep smaller ships for HAL.

 

Are the smaller ships going to disappear? That would be sad.

[SeaSharp]

I would LOVE to see HAL do some shorter duration cruises, especially in the Caribbean. The season gets shorter and shorter. I didn't realize how much I appreciated the fact when HAL had a summer Caribbean season. We often cruised the Caribbean in June or July. It's how I got hooked on HAL in the mid-1990's.

[jtl513]

I'm sorry, but I really can't see any relation between size/age of the ships and suitability for longer cruises.

I agree. I don't see how the length of the cruises has any significant influence on the economics of operating the ship. If anything, HAL would have to lower the daily rates to be competitive in the short cruise market, compared to what they can charge for the 20+ day cruises, so the ships would be less profitable.

.

Edited February 15, 2014 by jtl513

[cruiseapril]

SeaSharp- We were looking for some 5 day (Caribbean) cruises and found that Princess offers them now.

 

We would prefer a 5 day on HAL, but understand that the 5 day cruises can be "party cruises" and that might not be appealing to HAL.

 

(As an aside, we've been on a 5 day and didn't see many party animals!)

[kazu]

The Prinsendam went into service (as the Royal Viking Sun) in 1988. After 26 years it is still my favorite ship and a number of other folks.

 

ditto:D

[ICUQT]

The problem with HAL right now as I see it is an aging fleet. Does not matter what size the ship their all getting old. The older the ship the more the need for maintenance. The more the maintenance (dry dock) needed the more customer complaints HAL is going to receive. I think about it as I love my Toyota 2008 Camry. It has 125,000 miles and my warranty is expired. It has served me well. Sure I can get another 75,000 miles out of her but I am going to need another set of tires, new brake job maybe a new battery. Things are going to start to break down and I expect that. HAL is starting to sell off the smaller ships ie. Statendam and they are starting to build again with one in the pipeline. Personally I wish they were building more with a quicker turn around time but in time HAL will have too if they want to stay competitive. We the HAL consumer may have to pay higher fares and I expect that too. HAL may have to do things to attract the younger passengers/families and I am OK with that. I think they have a good product but they (HAL) are in need of a complete upgrade of the fleet dry docks are just not cutting it. IMHO I can always look for another cruise line if I am not happy. That is my choice.

 

bob

[July_Cruiser]

KK- Then why isn't HAL designing some new smaller ships? It would make so much sense to keep the status quo and a balance of smaller and larger ships. Let the other lines go bigger- but keep smaller ships for HAL.

 

Are the smaller ships going to disappear? That would be sad.

 

It seems like the small ships are going away because HOLLAND AMERICA REFUSES TO LISTEN TO THEIR CUSTOMERS!!! We also love the smaller ships like Ryndam and, even better, the Prinsendam!! On our 30 day September cruise the Mariner meeting everyone was so pleased to hear that the corporation was committing to keep Prinsendam for about five more years. When they also announced that a new ship with 2600 passenger size would be rolled out in 2014 this same group gave the captain a resounding BOO!!!!!

[July_Cruiser]

The problem with HAL right now as I see it is an aging fleet. Does not matter what size the ship their all getting old. The older the ship the more the need for maintenance. The more the maintenance (dry dock) needed the more customer complaints HAL is going to receive. I think about it as I love my Toyota 2008 Camry. It has 125,000 miles and my warranty is expired. It has served me well. Sure I can get another 75,000 miles out of her but I am going to need another set of tires, new brake job maybe a new battery. Things are going to start to break down and I expect that. HAL is starting to sell off the smaller ships ie. Statendam and they are starting to build again with one in the pipeline. Personally I wish they were building more with a quicker turn around time but in time HAL will have too if they want to stay competitive. We the HAL consumer may have to pay higher fares and I expect that too. HAL may have to do things to attract the younger passengers/families and I am OK with that. I think they have a good product but they (HAL) are in need of a complete upgrade of the fleet dry docks are just not cutting it. IMHO I can always look for another cruise line if I am not happy. That is my choice.

 

bob

 

Too bad that Holland America can't see that there is a big market out there for smaller ships. Sure, you can sail the tired old ships and fill them at lower pricing, but they could fill smaller ships that are either newer or even just completely refurbishing the older ship to a higher standard. Working toilets,hot water, and working airconditioning would stop the outflow of the previously loyal customers.

 

Celebrity almost got this right, with Azamara spinoff but screwed it up! Azamara priced us out by adding all beer and liquor to their all in pricing. So we returned to HAL and they stick us with Explore 4 fiasco! We would have gladly paid exactly the same cruise price without the beverage cards and the ill fated dining experience at the Pinnacle, if only the bathrooms had worked, hot water in cabin, slightly better food, and an attitude that the corporation gives a ****!!!

[cruiseapril]

If the Luxury lines are still building smaller ships, why not one or two at HAL?

 

Many cannot afford the Luxury prices and can afford the Maasdam and other smaller ship prices. There must be a small- ship niche, in mid-price cruising, which HAL can continue to fill.

 

It seems odd that many cruise lines want to herd everyone on to the huge ships. The idea of 4,000 passengers in a port is absurd, IMHO.

 

Hope HAL will fix all the problems on the smaller ships soon OR order new smaller ships.

 

If the life of a cruise ship is about 30 years- it seems that something needs to be done to save the smaller ships.

[mamaofami]

I also like the smaller ships, but their age and lack of repair is what is causing some of the A/C/ and plumbing issues that are causing many complaints.

 

I have a 2005 Toyota Avalon with 70,000 miles on it. It has had good care and proper service and I expect it to give me another year or so before I have to replace it. If it starts to give me trouble, then it will be replaced sooner.

 

The problems with some of the smaller ships is their problems.

[Randyk47]

If the Luxury lines are still building smaller ships, why not one or two at HAL?

 

Many cannot afford the Luxury prices and can afford the Maasdam and other smaller ship prices. There must be a small- ship niche, in mid-price cruising, which HAL can continue to fill.

 

It seems odd that many cruise lines want to herd everyone on to the huge ships. The idea of 4,000 passengers in a port is absurd, IMHO.

 

Hope HAL will fix all the problems on the smaller ships soon OR order new smaller ships.

 

If the life of a cruise ship is about 30 years- it seems that something needs to be done to save the smaller ships.

 

The problem, as I understand it, it's not a direct proportional relationship. By that I mean take a ship that's say one third the size of a Vista class ship doesn't mean that the smaller ship operational cost is also one third the cost of the larger ship. Gains and improvements in hull design, propulsion, automation, etc., actually allow the larger ships to move a larger load without a significant increase in cost, certainly not say three times what it costs for the smaller ship in my example. Bottom line is that for mass market lines like HAL it all comes down to revenue per passenger mile and unfortunately more passengers per mile is better. The other issue for HAL is that they are a part of Carnival Corporation and that larger entity has a presence in the small ship luxury niche with Seabourn.

[cruisetrail]

Have been reading this forum for years. Enjoy HAL very much.

 

Question? Does anyone else feel that HAL might be wise to have the older ships do shorter cruises -more 7 day and perhaps some 5 day? (And not the 10 and 14 day etc.)

 

We personally would enjoy 5 day cruises on HAL- because of the work schedules of family members. Also, would prefer going on longer cruises on ships like the Noordam (which we have) rather than on the older ships.

 

Please understand- we like the older ships and the smaller ships, but note so many problems with them these days. (A friend and her husband went on the Statendam and had problems.)

 

I know everyone will be kind and gentle with their responses. Thanks.

 

Short cruises are typically "fun cruises".

That means significantly different clientele.

The older smaller ships have no merits to be competitive in that segment - not enough "fun" for the appropriate public.

It's possible to fill them using various marketing tools but that will be dramatic deterioration of the product (in the "Resort regions").

Short cruises will be a good fit for a megalopolis like NYC.

These ageing ships will be able to get "their" clientele even for shorter cruises.

I personally would definitely take a 5 day cruise from NYC to Canada on an old HAL ship instead of Carnival.

Just my opinion.

HAL knows better how to run their business. :)

[cruiseapril]

Your idea of a 5 day NYC to Canada cruise on an older Hal ship is appealing.

 

We have looked at many 5 day cruises and wondered- why doesn't HAL offer a few of these each year?

 

If Princess does, why not HAL?

 

IMO HAL has better food, service, and atmosphere. Why not run more short cruises with the aging ships- and run the Westerdam or Noordam on some of the Maasdam itineraries and not wear her out too early? JMO