Just an Idea -Older Ships; Shorter Cruises

[SeaSharp]

My DH and I drove to the Florida Keys, back in October. We spent two nights in moderately priced hotel, Holiday Inn Express. We did opt for a more deluxe room, but it was only a few more dollars than the basic one. By the time the weekend was over, we spent more money just eating out and playing tourist, then we did going on a four night cruise on Eurodam back in December, booked in a suite. Sometimes these shorter cruises can be an excellent value for someone looking to get away for only a few days.

 

We will very soon be retired and will be able to take longer cruises, but until then, we find these little shorter cruises a nice break from the routine, as neither of us can take a lot of time off from work right now. Soon though, very soon!!

 

Perhaps if could be similar to a back to back cruise. Five days could be done as an Eastern, returning to embarkation port, and then five days Western. That way, a 10 day cruise could be done if one has the time.

 

We did find that when we were on Eurodam, on that four night December cruise, we spoke to many people who were experiencing cruising for the first time. Most were young, too, and were having the time of their lives. It's how we got hooked over 40 years ago!! Our first cruise was five nights, on the SS Emerald Seas out of Miami.

[cbr663]

We would love 5 day cruising because we have found that 5 days is our current limit on the ship. We are always ready to get off at the 5 day mark.

[sail7seas]

My DH and I drove to the Florida Keys, back in October. We spent two nights in moderately priced hotel, Holiday Inn Express. We did opt for a more deluxe room, but it was only a few more dollars than the basic one. By the time the weekend was over, we spent more money just eating out and playing tourist, then we did going on a four night cruise on Eurodam back in December, booked in a suite. Sometimes these shorter cruises can be an excellent value for someone looking to get away for only a few days.

 

We will very soon be retired and will be able to take longer cruises, but until then, we find these little shorter cruises a nice break from the routine, as neither of us can take a lot of time off from work right now. Soon though, very soon!!

 

Perhaps if could be similar to a back to back cruise. Five days could be done as an Eastern, returning to embarkation port, and then five days Western. That way, a 10 day cruise could be done if one has the time.

 

We did find that when we were on Eurodam, on that four night December cruise, we spoke to many people who were experiencing cruising for the first time. Most were young, too, and were having the time of their lives. It's how we got hooked over 40 years ago!! Our first cruise was five nights, on the SS Emerald Seas out of Miami.

 

 

With five days, there are not that many choices for ports. Where can you sail in five days Western round trip Fort Lauderdale for back-to-back?

 

It's fine if people are looking for maybe only one port and enjoy the sea days but, as always, PVSA, HAS to be factored.

 

 

[/b]

Edited February 16, 2014 by sail7seas

[LAFFNVEGAS]

It has been a proven fact that those who sail on the shorter cruises 3. 4 and 5 day cruises spend more money per day. Cruise Lines also can sell the cabins at a higher per diem because the days are less the total dollar amount does not seem that high compared to purchasing a 14 day on a S class ship. While there are so many regular HAL CCers Poo pooing this idea please stop to think there are thousands of other people that may not have the time to cruise like you have and also may not have cruised ever and that these shorter cruises are actually the best introductory way to try cruising. Actually there are numerous combinations of ways to do 4 and 5 day cruises from Florida. Remember most that do this are either first time cruisers or just want to Get Away, frankly they do not care that it is Half Moon Cay, Nassau or Grand Turk. There are also numerous ways to do this for going out of Northern East Coast ports in the Summer between Bermuda and Canada. The same is true on the West Coast and while it took Princess a while and it appeared they were concerned at first with dropping prices they are now selling quite well and prices are rising because the are. On the West Coast they can do a Coast with hitting Ensenada and going up to Northern California, they can even get down to Cabo in 5 days and back f the want. The cruise lines that do these that are not Carnival get a nice mix of people some retired some near retirement and others are young business professionals that cannot take the time off in length from their careers but need that quick Get Away.

For many years before I got hooked on cruising we would go to Hawaii and guess what we went for 5 days, yes I could not take that much time away from work and a 5 night stay in Hawaii was perfect.

I keep noticing the same people coming in and making this sound like it is a bad thing for HAL to do and they keep coming in repeating it, YES WE KNOW there are many long time cruisers that would never consider doing this but frankly you are NOT the target market for these 5 day cruises. While I am no longer as interested in the shorter cruise myself I am also not interested in the 20+ day cruise either.

 

There are actually more people that would be willing to take a shorter quick get away than those that can take the time for the longer cruises. Carnival and RCI have been doing these for years but there are many that do NOT want to sail Carnival and want a more upscale experience. Celebrity is been extremely successful with the 5 day cruises the Celebrity Century have done. Princess has recently jumped into this market and they too are doing well. I personally see no reason why HAL could not do this. But they definitely would need to change their business model a bit. They would actually have to bring on some entertainment so people could go out and about at night on the ship. They actually need to have several different types of music venues going to draw more people out of their cabins to be spending money drinking and playing in the casino. He could be a very profitable plan if HAL went about it the right way :rolleyes: Sadly if they did it the way they are attempting to do it now they are going to fail.

[startwin]

I agree with all of this and must admit that my very first HAL cruise was a 5-day coastal.... and my onboard account was unbelievable.:eek: I'm a little more savvy now, but the newer cruisers do tend to spend more onboard. They haven't seen it all before.

[Copper10-8]

L.A. (San Pedro/Long Beach) - Santa Barbara - Catalina Island - Ensenada; let's do it!

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I wanted to add that actually I think these shorter cruises are going to be making a big come back. Even for the Alaska cruises often at the beginning of the season or end of the season you might find a 6 day cruise. But I see for 2015 Princess has a 5 night round trip Vancouver that goes to Juneau and Ketchikan only on May 8th 2015 with prices that are almost half of what a normal Alaska cruise goes for. I can tell you that my guess is this sailing will sell out. Princess is calling it an Alaska Sampler.

I am also guess the excursions will also sell out, with the cruise price low most will budget for excursions in these two ports as well. This could be a big win for Princess.

[cruiseapril]

Having 10 Five Day cruises offered on HAL would hardly change the offerings of the long cruises.

 

Personally we prefer the 10 day cruises- however our daughter and other family members usually need to do 5 day cruises.

 

10 Five Day Back to Back cruises would only be Five 10 day cruises-so this would not cut back on 14 day+ cruises. No-one has suggested that.

 

There have been several ideas here:

Use some of the larger ships to replace the smaller ships with maintenance problems- until those ships are ship shape or replaced. One can love a ship, but know that eventually it will be sold and replaced. Have some of the larger ships doing some of the more varied itineraries (they could be rotated with what is offered now.)

 

Offer a few 5 day cruises and more of a variety of 7 day cruises to attract more cruisers who would like the HAL experience.

 

It seems like most people have the same desire- to see HAL thrive

in this competitive cruise environment. People do not always welcome change, but change can be very positive-as has been noted with Princess.

 

No one has to give up the old to try the new. There can be both.

[cruiseapril]

As to 5 day Western: Key West, Grand Cayman, and Cozumel are done by some lines with Grand Turk, Half Moon Cay, and Grand Bahama on the other 5 day BtoB. (This itinerary is not so much for seasoned cruisers looking for new ports, but for beach lovers and new cruisers. HAL offers plenty of long cruises with interesting new ports.)

 

Have to mention that Freeport itself is not an attractant- as it is an industrial port- however, there are some fine places on Grand Bahama including Gold Rock Beach and Lucayan National Park.

 

Others have mentioned shorter cruises for New England/ Canada and California Coastal- those would be good for 5 day HAL cruises or 10 day BtoB. Just my opinion.

[cbr663]

I wanted to add that actually I think these shorter cruises are going to be making a big come back. Even for the Alaska cruises often at the beginning of the season or end of the season you might find a 6 day cruise. But I see for 2015 Princess has a 5 night round trip Vancouver that goes to Juneau and Ketchikan only on May 8th 2015 with prices that are almost half of what a normal Alaska cruise goes for. I can tell you that my guess is this sailing will sell out. Princess is calling it an Alaska Sampler.

I am also guess the excursions will also sell out, with the cruise price low most will budget for excursions in these two ports as well. This could be a big win for Princess.

 

That 5 day Alaska Sampler sounds really interesting. I must check that out.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

L.A. (San Pedro/Long Beach) - Santa Barbara - Catalina Island - Ensenada; let's do it!

 

I would definitely be interested in doing this with HAL :) Sometimes one just needs a quick Get Away :)

[Arizona Cruisin]

Our first cruise in 1992 was an Alaska Cruise Tour on the Veendam. 3 days at sea. The after thought was 3 days was too short. We went for a week in the Caribbean. Eventually we opted for more days at sea. Always on the smaller ships. We flew to Rome to catch the Westerdam to Ft Lauderdale. Though we completely enjoyed the cruise, the Westerdam was way too large. Going from the dining room to the Crow's Nest we had to stop at our cabin for a break. There were no little private places to read and every venue had something going on.

 

We never thought that 7 days was enough. It felt like we barely unpacked and had to repack and leave the cruise. So we opted for more than 7 days on the smaller ships. Have enjoyed cruising since. Always on HAL. We enjoy 10-15 day cruises and would prefer west coast as we live in AZ.

[jbhcw]

This has been a great thread..enjoyed reading it…We are long time cruisers…we started out with a short cruise on the old Premier line..and soon worked out way up to 7, 11, 15 day cruises…on several different cruise lines.

 

We also love the 5 dayers that Carnival offers that go to Grand Turk, HMC, Key West and I personally would love for Hal to offer those cruises. Sadly the Carnival product has changed for us and our last short cruise left a lot to be desired, not sure we would do another short cruise on an older ship with them.

 

DH is getting older…I'm not:D and he is becoming more of a homebody…hard to talk him into leaving home for two weeks anymore! But I can get him to do a five day…luckily we are on the east coast and several ports are within an easy drive. I am still kicking myself that we didn't cruise the Zaandam when she was in Port Canaveral:):):) It would be wonderful if Hal had some 5 day cruises.

[cruiseapril]

Hi Jane- Maybe two 5 day Back to Back cruises would satisfy many -we would do these for sure.

 

There are so many possibilities:

 

Grand Turk, Half Moon Cay, Grand Bahama (Freeport) 5 days

Key West, Grand Cayman, Cozumel 5 days

 

St. Thomas, Grand Turk, Half Moon Cay 5 days

Key West, Nassau, Half Moon Cay 5 days

 

We like both Freeport and Nassau having found very good excursions at both ports. St. Thomas offers the excursions to St. John. We enjoyed going into town on Grand Turk and walking around an area which is like the old Caribbean of 20 years ago.

 

Hopefully HAL will consider some 5 day and 5/5 Back to Backs to give more cruisers more opportunities. These would simply be in addition to the long cruises- just as Princess has done.

[lcand1923]

HAL needs to decide WHAT sort of cruise line it wishes to be and which sort of cruiser it wishes to attract.

 

Personally, I would like it to decide to market to the more experienced cruiser -- the one who likes good service, good food, good drink, traditional entertainment (piano bar, music in lounges, enrichment lectures during the day, etc.).

 

Once it settles on the cruiser, it should then plan itineraries to match -- things that are a bit unusual. The five day cruise (easy to assemble into a 10 or 15 day back to back) would appeal to a LOT of people who could decide which and how many of these cruises they want to take.

 

Right now, HAL can't seem to decide on who they want to have as the cruiser.

[MMDown Under]

I also like the smaller ships, but their age and lack of repair is what is causing some of the A/C/ and plumbing issues that are causing many complaints.

 

I have a 2005 Toyota Avalon with 70,000 miles on it. It has had good care and proper service and I expect it to give me another year or so before I have to replace it. If it starts to give me trouble, then it will be replaced sooner.

 

The problems with some of the smaller ships is their problems.

 

I agree lack of regular maintenance causes many of the problems with the smaller ships.

 

I have a 1993 Toyota which doesn't miss a beat, following regular service.

 

Whilst some shipping companies do major refurbishment before they pass their older small ships on to their European subsidiaries, they don't factor in enough time for regular maintenance/refurbishment, of their smaller ships, for their USA/UK/Australia market. I wonder why?

 

Many people prefer to cruise on smaller ships, whether on short or longer cruises. But they prefer them to be in good working condition!

[MMDown Under]

HAL needs to decide WHAT sort of cruise line it wishes to be and which sort of cruiser it wishes to attract.

 

Personally, I would like it to decide to market to the more experienced cruiser -- the one who likes good service, good food, good drink, traditional entertainment (piano bar, music in lounges, enrichment lectures during the day, etc.).

 

Once it settles on the cruiser, it should then plan itineraries to match -- things that are a bit unusual. The five day cruise (easy to assemble into a 10 or 15 day back to back) would appeal to a LOT of people who could decide which and how many of these cruises they want to take.

 

Right now, HAL can't seem to decide on who they want to have as the cruiser.

 

Good comment. I agree.

 

I always wanted to cruise HAL, but, from what I have heard and read, it seems to have lost its way.

[nana51]

It has been a proven fact that those who sail on the shorter cruises 3. 4 and 5 day cruises spend more money per day. Cruise Lines also can sell the cabins at a higher per diem because the days are less the total dollar amount does not seem that high compared to purchasing a 14 day on a S class ship. While there are so many regular HAL CCers Poo pooing this idea please stop to think there are thousands of other people that may not have the time to cruise like you have and also may not have cruised ever and that these shorter cruises are actually the best introductory way to try cruising. Actually there are numerous combinations of ways to do 4 and 5 day cruises from Florida. Remember most that do this are either first time cruisers or just want to Get Away, frankly they do not care that it is Half Moon Cay, Nassau or Grand Turk. There are also numerous ways to do this for going out of Northern East Coast ports in the Summer between Bermuda and Canada. The same is true on the West Coast and while it took Princess a while and it appeared they were concerned at first with dropping prices they are now selling quite well and prices are rising because the are. On the West Coast they can do a Coast with hitting Ensenada and going up to Northern California, they can even get down to Cabo in 5 days and back f the want. The cruise lines that do these that are not Carnival get a nice mix of people some retired some near retirement and others are young business professionals that cannot take the time off in length from their careers but need that quick Get Away.

For many years before I got hooked on cruising we would go to Hawaii and guess what we went for 5 days, yes I could not take that much time away from work and a 5 night stay in Hawaii was perfect.

I keep noticing the same people coming in and making this sound like it is a bad thing for HAL to do and they keep coming in repeating it, YES WE KNOW there are many long time cruisers that would never consider doing this but frankly you are NOT the target market for these 5 day cruises. While I am no longer as interested in the shorter cruise myself I am also not interested in the 20+ day cruise either.

 

There are actually more people that would be willing to take a shorter quick get away than those that can take the time for the longer cruises. Carnival and RCI have been doing these for years but there are many that do NOT want to sail Carnival and want a more upscale experience. Celebrity is been extremely successful with the 5 day cruises the Celebrity Century have done. Princess has recently jumped into this market and they too are doing well. I personally see no reason why HAL could not do this. But they definitely would need to change their business model a bit. They would actually have to bring on some entertainment so people could go out and about at night on the ship. They actually need to have several different types of music venues going to draw more people out of their cabins to be spending money drinking and playing in the casino. He could be a very profitable plan if HAL went about it the right way :rolleyes: Sadly if they did it the way they are attempting to do it now they are going to fail.

 

Excellent post! You summed it up perfectly. No one will force anyone to take a 5 day cruise. I would love some of those out here on the west coast.

[WhansaMi]

While some HAL cruisers would agree to pay the fare for those Luxury lines and can afford to many cannot really afford the HAL cruises they are taking.

 

IF a cruiser wants to cruise those Luxury Lines and pay those fares, they would be doing so.

 

For the price we pay each time we sail in our "S" and "SA" cabins, we could sail most any ship we wish. We

choose to only sail HAL. :cool: We don't wish to sail a 30,000 ton or smaller ship. We are sailing the cruise

line that suits us. We don't want to sail Seabourn, Crystal, Silversea, Oceania et al (I realize Crystal's ships are larger than 30,000 tons but have NO desire to sail that line.)

 

For our per diems in addition to the extras we pay for that would be included on luxury lines, we would not be spending any more money than we now spend.

 

 

 

I would respectfully have to disagree with you about this.

 

When we booked our first HAL cruise, eight or so years ago, while we enjoyed many aspects of the ship, I couldn't help but feel that *everything* was being geared to those in their 70's and 80's. As someone in her mid-40's, I didn't feel that there was really a place for me. There was no venue for music that I would listen to. *All* of the shows were clearly skewed toward those my parents' or even grandparents' age.

 

At that point in time, I remember thinking that it was a short-sighted business plan, for two reasons: (1) eventually that customer-base is going to dwindle, and if the brand is only seen as catering to that group, there will be no customer base and (2) there are a lot of people born in the 40's who enjoyed a bit of rock 'n roll!

 

We just got off the Ryndam, and I was very happy to see that there were two Motown nights, and a "rock 'n roll" show (even if it did sound a bit "Up With People doing rock 'n roll-ish"!) There was still classical music nightly in one lounge, and Frank Sinatra at the piano bar. I felt it was very balanced and fair, and it makes me more excited about going on another HAL cruise in the future.

[cruiseapril]

Questions:

 

Does the Maasdam have 5 or 10 more years of HAL cruises to go if well maintained?

 

Does anyone have an idea as to which (ship)s will replace the Maasdam when she retires?

 

Are there no plans at all to build a new Maasdam size ship? We keep reading that HAL is going bigger- did they also say no more smaller ship builds?

 

Thanks for any info.

Edited February 18, 2014 by cruiseapril

[BruceMuzz]

If the Luxury lines are still building smaller ships, why not one or two at HAL?

 

Many cannot afford the Luxury prices and can afford the Maasdam and other smaller ship prices. There must be a small- ship niche, in mid-price cruising, which HAL can continue to fill.

 

It seems odd that many cruise lines want to herd everyone on to the huge ships. The idea of 4,000 passengers in a port is absurd, IMHO.

 

Hope HAL will fix all the problems on the smaller ships soon OR order new smaller ships.

 

If the life of a cruise ship is about 30 years- it seems that something needs to be done to save the smaller ships.

 

You may have heard me - or seen me - mention that in the Cruise Industry, "IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY".

The luxury lines are still building a few new small ships - and they are all still losing money on them.

Currently the smallest cruise ship that can make a profit - at ANY price point - must carry over 2,000 passengers.

You may notice that HAL has 9 ships that are smaller than 2,000 passengers. HAL is one of the poorest financial performers under the Carnival umbrella.

 

Why does it seem odd to you that "many cruise lines want to herd everyone on to the huge ships"??

Those huge ships are legal licenses to print money.

 

Do you also find it odd that the airlines want to herd everyone on to the new jumbo and super jumbo jets that are so financially successful?

 

Why would a cruise line spend a fortune to save an old small ship that cannot ever again make a profit, when nearly the same investment would build a big new ship that makes huge profits?

Doesn't take a financial genius to answer that question.

[iancal]

No surprise. I often wonder if the people who clamour for smaller ships are the same people who would actually pay the price required.

 

No surprise that HAL is one of the poor performers. The cutbacks in staff, and most especially in maintenance and dry dock indicate to me an organization that is not meeting revenue targets. And if you are not meeting revenue targets/budget, your expense lines better be at least as much or more below budget.

Edited February 18, 2014 by iancal

[cruiseapril]

Understand the economics of bigger- BUT there are so many concerns about the bigger ships, IMO.

 

Do not think it is wise to bring 4,000 people to a port in one ship and multiply it by how many ships?

 

Look at the crowding in St. Thomas now. How can these ports sustain so many cruisers at once? Even if 1,000 stay on the ship?

 

Think of the possible outbreaks of noro or e coli on the huge ships. We just saw a huge outbreak on the Explorer.

 

Still feel that a ship of 2,000 is good and that smaller ships would be filled if sustained. JMHO

[peaches from georgia]

........

 

Still feel that a ship of 2,000 is good and that smaller ships would be filled if sustained. JMHO

We love the smaller ships and they may very well be filled is maintained. But at what cruise fare? Recent history has shown that 'traditional' cruisers sailing mass market lines want good food, good service, good entertainment, and amenities, but at a lower cruise price than what allows the cruise line to make a profit on a smaller ship. No cruise line can continue to run ships at a loss forever even if they are sailing full.

[37harbar70]

You may have heard me - or seen me - mention that in the Cruise Industry, "IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY".

The luxury lines are still building a few new small ships - and they are all still losing money on them.

Currently the smallest cruise ship that can make a profit - at ANY price point - must carry over 2,000 passengers.

You may notice that HAL has 9 ships that are smaller than 2,000 passengers. HAL is one of the poorest financial performers under the Carnival umbrella.

 

Why does it seem odd to you that "many cruise lines want to herd everyone on to the huge ships"??

Those huge ships are legal licenses to print money.

 

Do you also find it odd that the airlines want to herd everyone on to the new jumbo and super jumbo jets that are so financially successful?

 

Why would a cruise line spend a fortune to save an old small ship that cannot ever again make a profit, when nearly the same investment would build a big new ship that makes huge profits?

Doesn't take a financial genius to answer that question.

 

Hi

 

How did you determine that HAL is one of the poorest financial performers under their umbrella? I can't seem to find this information in latest 10k filing with the SEC as all the information is summarized and not broken out by brand.

 

thanks

Bill