Is this B2B itinerary legal?

[cruisenfever]

If the Alaska sailing begins and ends in Vancouver, I believe that is fine. The problem comes in if the sailing ends in Seattle or Seward.

Correct. Hawaii to Vancouver and then R/T Vancouver for Alaska is OK.

[Ourusualbeach]

Pretty funny how if you just wanted to do a B2B for Alaska that,

 

Vancouver ...Seward...Seward...Vancouver is legal

 

Yet

 

Seward...Vancouver...Vancouver...Seward is not.

 

The latter B2B would most likely not be that popular anyway given the cost of the airfare is probably more.

[willing292]

The Jones Act comes into play because it refers to the crew.

 

 

Shirley, Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[RDC1]

OK

I am trying to book the Jewel, Spetember 18th cruise from Vancouver to Los Angeles. I want to do a back-to-back with the 2 round trip Los Angeles cruises on September 26 and October 3.

My TA is saying that I will violate the Jones Act (or whatever name we are referring to it as). I would embark the Jewel on September 18 in Vancouver and I would disembark the Jewel on October 10th in Los Angeles.

What is confusing me is, if you look at the September 18th cruise as a stand-alone, it begins in Vancouver and ends in Los Angeles, with a disembark date of September 26. What's the difference if I disembark in Los Angeles on September 26th or October 10th?

This part does not make sense to me.

Thank you for trying to help.

Gigi

 

This should not be a violation because the first starts outside the US and the second is the same port for both beginning and end. I think your TA is incorrect on this one

[RDC1]

Pretty funny how if you just wanted to do a B2B for Alaska that,

 

Vancouver ...Seward...Seward...Vancouver is legal

 

Yet

 

Seward...Vancouver...Vancouver...Seward is not.

 

The latter B2B would most likely not be that popular anyway given the cost of the airfare is probably more.[/quote

 

They are both legal. You end up at the same US port that you started from on the second. Seward to Vancouver Vancouver to LA would not be.

[crzndeb]

The Jones Act comes into play because it refers to the crew.

 

 

Shirley, Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

Sorry, that is not correct.

 

The Jones Act is cargo.

[willing292]

Sorry, the jones act and the PSA must be used together. I worked in this industry for 32 years.

 

 

Shirley, Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[negc]

Pretty funny how if you just wanted to do a B2B for Alaska that,

 

Vancouver ...Seward...Seward...Vancouver is legal

 

Yet

 

Seward...Vancouver...Vancouver...Seward is not.

 

The latter B2B would most likely not be that popular anyway given the cost of the airfare is probably more.

 

Check again. Not sure that there is a PSVA violation in the B2B you describe

[aronde]

Pretty funny how if you just wanted to do a B2B for Alaska that,

 

Vancouver ...Seward...Seward...Vancouver is legal

 

Yet

 

Seward...Vancouver...Vancouver...Seward is not.

 

The latter B2B would most likely not be that popular anyway given the cost of the airfare is probably more.

 

Seward - Vancouver - Seward is fine! Just had that confirmed by RCI today as we are looking to do that itinerary in 2015.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

how is it illegal? he's doing two different cruises and one of them embarks and departs out of Vancouver, which IS considered a foreign port. I'm sure the first one docks in Victoria, am I correct? So it's perfectly fine. But if you're not sure consult your TA or a RCI rep, you're probably not going to get a legitimate answer on cruise critic.

 

I think your post proves that point.

 

Bill

[bigeck]

Well done Patti. I've had enough of trying to explain this to people who want to believe otherwise ;)

 

I'm in agreement with you and the others. I will call today if I get a chance and make sure they know this.

I have to make sure they will transfer my booking to another cruise without penalty. Usually in Uk we would lose the deposit, but as its no fault of mine, I should be ok

[bigeck]

Ok. Just off the phone to Rci and as said on here its illegal.

The woman explained it very good and she was very nice and sympathetic.

We can't start a cruise in 1 Us port and end in another. Easy as that.

My options now are,

Book the 9/26 cruise LA to LA. that sounds good as we will tour around for 6 days.

Or, book Radiance to Honolulu when its released at the end of March. My deposit is safe and she apologised for another rep taking the booking in the first place. I've to call and book what cruise I chose as soon as Radiance is released. Decisions...

 

I will have to wait and see the dates for Radiance as we get into Vancouver on the 18th and Radiance's last cruise is the 11th.

I did notice Radiance has a 7 day break before going to Hawaii this year. Wonder if its the same in 2015 and that would tie in with Jewel.

 

Hope you follow all that

[Clarea]

Ok. Just off the phone to Rci and as said on here its illegal.

The woman explained it very good and she was very nice and sympathetic.

We can't start a cruise in 1 Us port and end in another. Easy as that.

My options now are,

Book the 9/26 cruise LA to LA. that sounds good as we will tour around for 6 days.

Or, book Radiance to Honolulu when its released at the end of March. My deposit is safe and she apologised for another rep taking the booking in the first place. I've to call and book what cruise I chose as soon as Radiance is released. Decisions...

 

I will have to wait and see the dates for Radiance as we get into Vancouver on the 18th and Radiance's last cruise is the 11th.

I did notice Radiance has a 7 day break before going to Hawaii this year. Wonder if its the same in 2015 and that would tie in with Jewel.

 

Hope you follow all that

Glad you got it worked out before you made any non-refundable air arrangements.:)

[Ourusualbeach]

Check again. Not sure that there is a PSVA violation in the B2B you describe

 

Yep. Don't know what the heck I was thinking last night.

[Beachin2]

Ok. Just off the phone to Rci and as said on here its illegal.

The woman explained it very good and she was very nice and sympathetic.

We can't start a cruise in 1 Us port and end in another. Easy as that.

My options now are,

Book the 9/26 cruise LA to LA. that sounds good as we will tour around for 6 days.

Or, book Radiance to Honolulu when its released at the end of March. My deposit is safe and she apologised for another rep taking the booking in the first place. I've to call and book what cruise I chose as soon as Radiance is released. Decisions...

 

I will have to wait and see the dates for Radiance as we get into Vancouver on the 18th and Radiance's last cruise is the 11th.

I did notice Radiance has a 7 day break before going to Hawaii this year. Wonder if its the same in 2015 and that would tie in with Jewel.

 

Hope you follow all that

 

Glad you got it squared away. I'm also waiting for the Radiance schedule - last sailing posted is for 9/4. If she does a 9/11 Vancouver RT sailing (fingers crossed) before heading for HNL, we we do the Radiance then go down the wharf and get on the Jewel for the LA leg.

 

Sure wish the rest of the September '15 schedule would come out.

[SadmanCruiser]

Whilst I understand the 'Jones Act', I am also puzzled by it.

 

In May 2007 we did a b2b2b on the Vision.

 

Cruise 1: Los Angeles to Los Angeles (Mexican Riviera)

Cruise 2: Los Angeles to Vancouver (Repositioning)

Cruise 3: Vancouver to Seattle (Alaska)

 

Surely this would have been illegal under the 'Jones Act'.

[Piepkorn]

I did notice Radiance has a 7 day break before going to Hawaii this year. Wonder if its the same in 2015 and that would tie in with Jewel.

 

The 7 day break is actually a chartered cruise - 'Dave Koz Cruise'.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Piepkorn

[Beachin2]

The 7 day break is actually a chartered cruise - 'Dave Koz Cruise'.

 

I see that for 2014 - not for 2015???

[Clarea]

Whilst I understand the 'Jones Act', I am also puzzled by it.

 

In May 2007 we did a b2b2b on the Vision.

 

Cruise 1: Los Angeles to Los Angeles (Mexican Riviera)

Cruise 2: Los Angeles to Vancouver (Repositioning)

Cruise 3: Vancouver to Seattle (Alaska)

 

Surely this would have been illegal under the 'Jones Act'.

I agree, that should have been illegal under the PVSA.

[bigeck]

The 7 day break is actually a chartered cruise - 'Dave Koz Cruise'.

 

Thanks for that. It looks like it could be a good cruise.

 

http://www.davekozcruise.com/

[comxkid]

Whilst I understand the 'Jones Act', I am also puzzled by it.

 

In May 2007 we did a b2b2b on the Vision.

 

Cruise 1: Los Angeles to Los Angeles (Mexican Riviera)

Cruise 2: Los Angeles to Vancouver (Repositioning)

Cruise 3: Vancouver to Seattle (Alaska)

 

Surely this would have been illegal under the 'Jones Act'.

 

It should have been. Maybe the B2B2B aspect of it caused someone to miss it.

[crzndeb]

Whilst I understand the 'Jones Act', I am also puzzled by it.

 

In May 2007 we did a b2b2b on the Vision.

 

Cruise 1: Los Angeles to Los Angeles (Mexican Riviera)

Cruise 2: Los Angeles to Vancouver (Repositioning)

Cruise 3: Vancouver to Seattle (Alaska)

 

Surely this would have been illegal under the 'Jones Act'.

 

Simply put, you got away with it. I'm sure others do too.

 

It really doesn't make any difference the number of cruises together..2 or 20. It comes back to start and end points. Yours was LA to Seattle.

 

Illegal under the Passenger Vessel Service Act.

[LetsGetWet!]

This is governed by the CBP, and not the cruise lines. Cruise lines can receive severe penalties, if they knowingly allow this.

So is this wrong then - from wiki: "In accordance with this law, cruise lines that operate foreign-flagged vessels are fined $300 for each passenger who boarded such a vessel in one U.S. port and left the vessel at another port. The cruise lines typically pass this cost on the passengers who "jump the ship"."

 

What prevents a cruise line from allowing such a B2B as this thread discusses, but simply assessing an additional charge of $300 per passenger and paying the fine?

[bigeck]

So is this wrong then - from wiki: "In accordance with this law, cruise lines that operate foreign-flagged vessels are fined $300 for each passenger who boarded such a vessel in one U.S. port and left the vessel at another port. The cruise lines typically pass this cost on the passengers who "jump the ship"."

 

What prevents a cruise line from allowing such a B2B as this thread discusses, but simply assessing an additional charge of $300 per passenger and paying the fine?

 

Wiki is as usual economic with the truth. Go to the CBP web site it will tell you it is $5000 per passenger. I was also told that amount today from the Rci rep who explained everything to me.

[LetsGetWet!]

Wiki is as usual economic with the truth. Go to the CBP web site it will tell you it is $5000 per passenger. I was also told that amount today from the Rci rep who explained everything to me.

Hmm... I did go to the CBP website, and it says the fine is $300 per passenger. Page 14 of the document:

 

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/trade/legal/informed_compliance_pubs/pvsa_icp.ctt/pvsa_icp.pdf

 

EDIT: Oops, you and the RCI rep may still be right. The government never makes things easy - I hadn't noticed the final clause here:

 

“[t]he penalty imposed for the unlawful transportation of passengers between coastwise points is $300 for each passenger so transported and landed (...as adjusted by the Federal Civil Penalties Inflation Adjustment Act of 1990).”

 

So now I guess one would have to go find and figure out the math within the "Federal Civil Penalties Inflation Adjustment Act of 1990" and maybe that gets you to $5,000. Not sure I want to take the time to verify that! :)

Edited February 21, 2014 by LetsGetWet!