Carnivalization of Celebrity??

[Seapoint]

Just off the Celebrity Reflection. So much about the cruise was excellent: the stunning ship, consistently superior food, spotless cleanliness, friendly service, officers, crew. So many people working so diligently to provide a first class "modern luxury" experience.

 

Unfortunately, there was also a big and easily resolved concern.

 

Around the main pool, the "music" of the Miami DJs was unacceptably LOUD! So loud at sail-away that one could not even hear a person standing right next to one.So loud that one's whole body vibrated. So loud that the speakers distorted the sound. The issue is not so much the kind of music, as its volume. It rendered the main pool area unusable.

 

Likewise, the party band Vibe was so loud in the foyer as to render the core of the ship unusable. They disturbed people in the Library, Hideaway, Game Room, Martini Bar, Cellar Masters, Bistro, Cafe Bacio, Passport Bar, Guest Relations, Elevator lobbies etc.

 

Miami DJs and Vibe would be great in a separate venue, such as Sky lounge or Qasar. Let those who like it come to those venues. The issue was that this was inflicted on a majority of the passengers who did not pay their hard earned money to be subjected to this new un-Celebrity-like experience.

 

Now here is the really scary part.:eek:

 

I attended the Cruise Critic gathering, along with 60 or 70 others, and several ships officers. When the issue of the loud music was raised by several guests, the Cruise Director explained that the Reflection, as the flagship, was leading the way introducing a new entertainment concept, which would be taken fleet wide! The key was a shift in the demographic profile of their target guests, from 50s to 30-something. The loud music reflected this new direction. Apparently someone in Miami thinks that ultra-loud music = 30 something demographic!

 

There was a lot of dissenting discussion. During the course of this the Cruise Director made it very clear that if the loyal, traditional Celebrity customer did not like this direction, they should find another line to cruise :eek:

 

I love the Celebrity experience, and have done some 20 cruises with them. I see this as the Carnivalization of the brand! Given that they already own Royal Caribbean, which appeals to a younger demographic, I do not see the business sense in taking Celebrity in this direction, and upsetting their large established loyal base of customers.

 

I would be interesting in hearing from other Cruise Critic members who were at that infamous CC gathering.

[wallie5446]

We have RSVP to the Celebrity party at the Dallas Arboretum next week and plan on printing out a number of threads and comments and asking if this is what is happening.

[Kamloops50]

I have found that Princess is also starting to do the same thing with music.

They play Rock Concerts so loud on MUTS that start to leave the area.

[wolfpackmom]

I cannot speak to the music on your particular cruise as I wasn't there, but I was on the Infinity out of England this past October and the music was absolutely subdued. They even had a harpist playing in the coffee lounge which I thought was a strange thing to listen to as you got your caffeine boost. Maybe X is looking for the right balance?

[TLCOhio]

Just came back last month from two weeks on the Celebrity Solstice as noted and detailed below on my live/blog. There were areas, such over pushing on selling "stuff" that bugged me some. BUT, I did not sense personally or hear from the six Ohio couples in our group that the music was too loud and/or that things were sliding downhill toward being "Carnivalized"!

 

Ours was a busy, active cruise and I cannot claim to have monitored every area, every hour of the day. But, if it had been "bad", I am sure I would have noticed or heard.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Just back from doing a 14-day Celebrity Solstice, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure on this ship and getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for much more information and lots of wonderful pictures on these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at over 39,000 views for this fun posting.

[1313steve]

Just off the Celebrity Reflection. So much about the cruise was excellent: the stunning ship, consistently superior food, spotless cleanliness, friendly service, officers, crew. So many people working so diligently to provide a first class "modern luxury" experience.

 

Unfortunately, there was also a big and easily resolved concern.

 

Around the main pool, the "music" of the Miami DJs was unacceptably LOUD! So loud at sail-away that one could not even hear a person standing right next to one.So loud that one's whole body vibrated. So loud that the speakers distorted the sound. The issue is not so much the kind of music, as its volume. It rendered the main pool area unusable.

 

Likewise, the party band Vibe was so loud in the foyer as to render the core of the ship unusable. They disturbed people in the Library, Hideaway, Game Room, Martini Bar, Cellar Masters, Bistro, Cafe Bacio, Passport Bar, Guest Relations, Elevator lobbies etc.

 

Miami DJs and Vibe would be great in a separate venue, such as Sky lounge or Qasar. Let those who like it come to those venues. The issue was that this was inflicted on a majority of the passengers who did not pay their hard earned money to be subjected to this new un-Celebrity-like experience.

 

Now here is the really scary part.:eek:

 

I attended the Cruise Critic gathering, along with 60 or 70 others, and several ships officers. When the issue of the loud music was raised by several guests, the Cruise Director explained that the Reflection, as the flagship, was leading the way introducing a new entertainment concept, which would be taken fleet wide! The key was a shift in the demographic profile of their target guests, from 50s to 30-something. The loud music reflected this new direction. Apparently someone in Miami thinks that ultra-loud music = 30 something demographic!

 

There was a lot of dissenting discussion. During the course of this the Cruise Director made it very clear that if the loyal, traditional Celebrity customer did not like this direction, they should find another line to cruise :eek:

 

I love the Celebrity experience, and have done some 20 cruises with them. I see this as the Carnivalization of the brand! Given that they already own Royal Caribbean, which appeals to a younger demographic, I do not see the business sense in taking Celebrity in this direction, and upsetting their large established loyal base of customers.

 

I would be interesting in hearing from other Cruise Critic members who were at that infamous CC gathering.

 

Interesting information, but according to your signature, it doesn't look like you've ever been on a Carnival ship, so I'm not sure how you can describe it as the "Carnivalization of Celebrity".

 

I was just on the Carnival Glory in October, and at no point was the music anywhere near as loud as you described. In fact, I was surprised at just how subdued all of the entertainment was, based on the stereotypical description of Carnival.

 

 

As you can see by my signature, our Reflection cruise in about a month will be our first Celebrity experience, so I can't offer a direct comparison, but I'm hoping Celebrity is a step up from Carnival. I felt Carnival was a Holiday Inn experience, and I'm hoping Celebrity is a Marriott or Hyatt type experience.

[Silvery Seas Cruiser]

If it is true that Celebrity is going to try to attract the 30-something crowd in preference to its current demographic, I must say that I am quite disappointed.

 

But Celebrity may need to reconfigure their ships. The younger crowds want fancy sliding boards, climbing walls, rope courses, FlowRiders, ziplines, bowling with VIP lanes and bottle service, bumper cars, and so much more that the older generatiosn do not list as top priorities on a cruise ship.

 

The current elegant Celebrity ships really don't have all that much (besides loud music evidently, that 30-somethings seek.

[miched]

It is part of a plot by Celebruty. They entice the younger crowd to book a cruise with the 123. Then they play music so loud that it drives the older loyal folks away and keeps the younger crowd that the promo was aimed at.

 

In the process they revamped the Captain Club to thin the herds and make it tougher to achieve the higher levels.

 

This accomplishes the two things that they wanted, draws the young crowd and eliminates the old folks that were getting too many benefits and perks and not spending enough.

 

 

🌊🚢🇺🇸🍸🍻

[bphman]

I've had a lot of fun on Carnival so I don't know to what you are referring. The only time I ever heard loud music on any of my 5 Carnival cruises was sailing into Venice and they were playing Pavarotti. It was not intrusive. Maybe it is a Celebrity thing and we should be afraid that this will spread to the other lines. I guess it bothers me that every bad cruise experience is a Carnival thing.

[4774Papa]

Those 30 year olds already have their hearing damaged from listening to loud music.

 

Getting back to the issue, we occasionally hear music that we don't care for and sometimes it is too loud, but not so much on Celebrity. NCL, it is a problem and that keeps us away from the pool.

 

Hopefully, X will not get too carried away with this.

[cle-guy]

 

But Celebrity may need to reconfigure their ships. The younger crowds want fancy sliding boards, climbing walls, rope courses, FlowRiders, ziplines, bowling with VIP lanes and bottle service, bumper cars, and so much more that the older generatiosn do not list as top priorities on a cruise ship.

 

The current elegant Celebrity ships really don't have all that much (besides loud music evidently, that 30-somethings seek.

 

You are very, very wrong. My 20-30-40 something friends and I are all loving cruising on Celebrity. Not all of us want a playground, slides, ropes, most of us find VIP Bottle service a bit tacky and cheesy, many of us AVOID CARNIVAL AT ALL COST! We want cool DJ music, fun modern music at the pool, decent drinks, reasonable entertainment, comfortable cabin, a busy bustling martini bar, and just good service and value for money. We enjoy a formal night or 2 to get out our best 'duds' and have a nice evening. Celebrity has been providing that in spades, and each time I board another cruise, they are getting things even closer to what we love about vacationing.

 

We've cruised Transatlantics and in the caribbean, met many others like us on these trips, and now plan our vacations around cruising rather than land trips. Somehow Celebrity has been calling, and we have come running!

 

I'm also very happy to see them finally enhancing the Suite experience. I was about to think of trying Norwegian, but now don't have to.

 

All in all, I think its a great business decision by X to keep current with current trends. I suppose if they are wrong with this decisions, we'll see them bankrupt in a couple years. Only time will tell. I do think also, they are pushing some of their older crowd out of the boat so to speak, but also think there is still plenty to do on the ship no matter what age one may be.

 

To make a REAL decision on the policy, it's best to understand the onboard spending of the new incoming generation versus the long time cruisers. I suspect the incoming generation has a higher spend, thus delivers higher profit margins, thus increased shareholder value - the bottom line is all that matters since they are a publicly traded company.

[Sun&Sand52]

Wow, this is terrible to hear. I hope this is NOT the direction Celebrity is heading for. I have read on this board many mixed reviews of the Reflection ship. Even after reading some "iffy" reviews about the Reflection, I was still seriously considering an upcoming sailing on the ship. But from what the OP stated - it does not sound like a cruise my DH and I would be looking for. Not at all.....

 

What attracted us personally to Celebrity as our preferred line is the relaxed atmosphere and LACK of commotion. When we cruise we are looking for R&R. And the last 3 cruises on Celebrity did provide that. We are not looking for loud music that interfere with relaxing and having conversations. This is terribly disappointing to hear.

[Shining Clem]

Sorry to read of your report for several reasons.

 

For some reason studies have been done in the restaurant industry that have concluded that higher volume means people tend to drink more - therefore they sell more alcohol. Maybe they drink more at that point, but that kind of noise volume will help kill the hearing of their staff and customers. If they contribute to the hearing loss of people in their 30's & 40's, then they will loose them by their late 50's because at any age, our personal loud speakers (our ears) aren't any happier than mechanical speakers which ODed. Is this what they want?

 

Ask the multitude of returning veterans in their 20s-30s from Iraq & Afghanistan who have lost their hearing due to bomb noise about this subject.

 

Your Reflection CD had obviously heard the complaints before. The only way to fight it is to send snail mail letters to Miami, as well as make strong comments in the evaluations. We have a Celebrity cruise coming up this fall -- if this is their attitude, it will be our last one. :mad:

 

The cruise lines dragged their feet about smoking for too long and people voted with their feet & wallets. In many ways we had a fine time on a HAL cruise to Alaska last year, but the threat of being around smoking was always there. We told them we would be happy to cruise with HAL again IF they restricted smoking to a couple of areas, but until then "no".

 

I have already lost 70% of my hearing due to both family genetics and NYC subway noise for a year - not willing to endanger the remainder. Not only when do you loose the functioning of the little cilia hairs in your ears from loud noises, but the next thing to go is the nerve between your ears and brain. And once that nerve atrophies ......... well forget it.

 

I'll put in a plug for a marvelous non-profit organization for people with hearing loss: www.hearingloss.org

 

I know of several people who certainly have the $$ to cruise, but will not do so just because of the noise in the MDRs - and we are talking Crystal, Oceania, Regent people. Being able to eat in Blu, a smaller dining venue has kept us with Celebrity. Is it no wonder so many of the suite people want to eat there - often the reason cited is it is quieter.

 

If Celebrity thinks they are attracting a more exclusive, high spending crowd with loud music, why are people wanting to go to smaller, quieter dining rooms? Is Celebrity telling people who cannot afford or wish to spend more money in private suites, that their hearing can be abused? :confused:

[blueboro]

I was on the same cruise and to me it wasn't that noise level was so loud, it was just that the Miami DJ concept is really bad. No music to speak of, just a loud beat of percussion. And the fact the Sky Lounge was seldom if ever used for anything other than private functions was disappointing. There was an "Oak Ridge Boys" Rally at Sea group that may have had many of the private functions but it would be nice to have entertainment in venues other than the atrium. And I am still scratching my head over"Liquid" and what the hell that was supposed to be.

[johhnnyt]

I think it's a good idea

Not the loud music, I could care less whether they have it or not, if its loud I go somewhere else or move away from the source

 

The smart thing I think they are trying to do is expand their demographic base, it will take some trial and error, and experimentation, but I think its important start to build brand loyalty with a crowd that will around 20-30-40 years, as well as support the crowd that has always been there for them

 

Celebrity is smart enough to take notice on what the crowd likes and doesn't, and more importantly how it affects sales

Edited March 4, 2014 by johhnnyt

[ORV]

Am I the only one that finds it hard to imagine that a Cruise Director would do this? Doesn't really sound like supporting the crowd that has always been there for them.

 

" During the course of this the Cruise Director made it very clear that if the loyal, traditional Celebrity customer did not like this direction, they should find another line to cruise "

[johhnnyt]

Am I the only one that finds it hard to imagine that a Cruise Director would do this? Doesn't really sound like supporting the crowd that has always been there for them.

 

" During the course of this the Cruise Director made it very clear that if the loyal, traditional Celebrity customer did not like this direction, they should find another line to cruise "

 

I'm sure that was the posters opinion, how based in fact it was rather than his own perceptions, no one knows.

Edited March 4, 2014 by johhnnyt

[ORV]

I'm sure that was the posters opinion, how based in fact it was rather than his own perceptions, no one knows.

 

So you think the OP might be spinning it based on their bias? I wonder if any others from CC were at this meeting?:rolleyes: Oh wait, it was the Cruise Critic meeting, maybe some of them will come along and can add their perceptions.

[barney6895]

You are very, very wrong. My 20-30-40 something friends and I are all loving cruising on Celebrity. Not all of us want a playground, slides, ropes, most of us find VIP Bottle service a bit tacky and cheesy, many of us AVOID CARNIVAL AT ALL COST! We want cool DJ music, fun modern music at the pool, decent drinks, reasonable entertainment, comfortable cabin, a busy bustling martini bar, and just good service and value for money. We enjoy a formal night or 2 to get out our best 'duds' and have a nice evening. Celebrity has been providing that in spades, and each time I board another cruise, they are getting things even closer to what we love about vacationing.

 

We've cruised Transatlantics and in the caribbean, met many others like us on these trips, and now plan our vacations around cruising rather than land trips. Somehow Celebrity has been calling, and we have come running!

 

I'm also very happy to see them finally enhancing the Suite experience. I was about to think of trying Norwegian, but now don't have to.

 

All in all, I think its a great business decision by X to keep current with current trends. I suppose if they are wrong with this decisions, we'll see them bankrupt in a couple years. Only time will tell. I do think also, they are pushing some of their older crowd out of the boat so to speak, but also think there is still plenty to do on the ship no matter what age one may be.

 

To make a REAL decision on the policy, it's best to understand the onboard spending of the new incoming generation versus the long time cruisers. I suspect the incoming generation has a higher spend, thus delivers higher profit margins, thus increased shareholder value - the bottom line is all that matters since they are a publicly traded company.

 

 

I completely agree with this guy! My friends and I are mid 20s and we want nothing to do with the cheap and disney like cruises such as carnival. Just because the music has been too loud lately (I have heard such complaints on many threads) doesnt mean next they are going to add zip lines and bumper cars. They are trying to change it so their cruise line can be enjoyed by anyone at anytime. I only go on spring break these days to ensure a younger crowd. I think they are the best cruise line out there and I will be sailing next week and i think the $6ks just for the room was well worth it no matter how loud the music! They are the cleanest cruise line with service that is unmatched in the industry. They need to start focusing on a younger generation as the time goes on. And I cant say this about everyone but the older crowd tends to be very tight with their money which is good but also hurts their business when offering extras like specialty dinning and such. I have noticed that a lot of the younger crowd opts for things like this and dont mind spending the extra money. I do not think they are trying to be like carnival they clearly charge ten times what they do and people still pack the ships time and time again. I will report back what I think when i return from my trip in a week or so on the Reflection.

[patty1955]

Am I the only one that finds it hard to imagine that a Cruise Director would do this? Doesn't really sound like supporting the crowd that has always been there for them.

 

" During the course of this the Cruise Director made it very clear that if the loyal, traditional Celebrity customer did not like this direction, they should find another line to cruise "

That is exactly what Alexander said. This is the way Celebrity is going and he as much as said we could find another cruise line. Reflection is their flag ship and this is how it's going to be. They are looking for a younger crowd.

We were in the shops while the music was playing and we couldn't hear each other talking. A woman in the elevator told us she could hear the music in her stateroom. The music wasn't bad, it was just too loud. And we had attended a rock concert three days before sailing and it was still too loud for us.

[Viva_la_Vida]

You are very, very wrong. My 20-30-40 something friends and I are all loving cruising on Celebrity. Not all of us want a playground, slides, ropes, most of us find VIP Bottle service a bit tacky and cheesy, many of us AVOID CARNIVAL AT ALL COST! We want cool DJ music, fun modern music at the pool, decent drinks, reasonable entertainment, comfortable cabin, a busy bustling martini bar, and just good service and value for money. We enjoy a formal night or 2 to get out our best 'duds' and have a nice evening. Celebrity has been providing that in spades, and each time I board another cruise, they are getting things even closer to what we love about vacationing.

 

Well said, however I will say that I have never sailed Carnival so I don't judge either way in regards to those comparisons. I find this a very interesting thread, as it really parallels what is happening in the classical music market. The old guard tends to want the same old tried and true Brahms concerts while many of the younger generation want to see more John Adams, mixed media, and more living composers get some stage time. It's a constant battle. The young professionals aren't the ones donating all of the money, yet if the orchestra programs don't get us hooked now, there will be no stable audience left for them in 50 years. I wish Celebrity would do a better job recognizing, as the poster I quoted did, that our generation does not fit into stereotypical boxes, just like 50+ cruisers don't either. I'm 27 and a classical musician, as is my husband. We love opera, jazz, among many other genres INCLUDING the house music that was described as being too loud at the pool. While of course X should listen to their loyal base, they are absolutely right to try and bring in new customers. They also need to recognize that those of us who are newbees probably chose Celebrity not only for the free beverage package (guilty :o) but also for their reputation for refinement, quality, and service. IMHO, build on that and offer variety. By all means play that house music, but maybe not so loud, and don't forget to keep offering the chamber ensembles and latin dance night at Revelations:D

[patty1955]

They are not trying to change it so it can be enjoyed by everyone. The music was so loud you couldn't use the library, shops, hideway, molecular bar, etc and enjoy them. The music filed the entire common area of the ship.

[johhnnyt]

You are very, very wrong. My 20-30-40 something friends and I are all loving cruising on Celebrity. Not all of us want a playground, slides, ropes, most of us find VIP Bottle service a bit tacky and cheesy, many of us AVOID CARNIVAL AT ALL COST! We want cool DJ music, fun modern music at the pool, decent drinks, reasonable entertainment, comfortable cabin, a busy bustling martini bar, and just good service and value for money. We enjoy a formal night or 2 to get out our best 'duds' and have a nice evening. Celebrity has been providing that in spades, and each time I board another cruise, they are getting things even closer to what we love about vacationing.

 

Well said, however I will say that I have never sailed Carnival so I don't judge either way in regards to those comparisons. I find this a very interesting thread, as it really parallels what is happening in the classical music market. The old guard tends to want the same old tried and true Brahms concerts while many of the younger generation want to see more John Adams, mixed media, and more living composers get some stage time. It's a constant battle. The young professionals aren't the ones donating all of the money, yet if the orchestra programs don't get us hooked now, there will be no stable audience left for them in 50 years. I wish Celebrity would do a better job recognizing, as the poster I quoted did, that our generation does not fit into stereotypical boxes, just like 50+ cruisers don't either. I'm 27 and a classical musician, as is my husband. We love opera, jazz, among many other genres INCLUDING the house music that was described as being too loud at the pool. While of course X should listen to their loyal base, they are absolutely right to try and bring in new customers. They also need to recognize that those of us who are newbees probably chose Celebrity not only for the free beverage package (guilty :o) but also for their reputation for refinement, quality, and service. IMHO, build on that and offer variety. By all means play that house music, but maybe not so loud, and don't forget to keep offering the chamber ensembles and latin dance night at Revelations:D

 

Beautiful analogy!:D

I never met anyone that embraces change, but like the quote says "If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change."

[ORV]

That is exactly what Alexander said. This is the way Celebrity is going and he as much as said we could find another cruise line. Reflection is their flag ship and this is how it's going to be. They are looking for a younger crowd.

We were in the shops while the music was playing and we couldn't hear each other talking. A woman in the elevator told us she could hear the music in her stateroom. The music wasn't bad, it was just too loud. And we had attended a rock concert three days before sailing and it was still too loud for us.

 

Interesting way to run a hospitality business. Maybe Mr. Bayley will promote him.

[clmom]

Am I the only one that finds it hard to imagine that a Cruise Director would do this? Doesn't really sound like supporting the crowd that has always been there for them.

 

" During the course of this the Cruise Director made it very clear that if the loyal, traditional Celebrity customer did not like this direction, they should find another line to cruise "

I was at this gathering and my take on it was that Alexander, the CD, has a somewhat dry, sarcastic type of personality. His response was a wee bit flippant and fanned the flames. I think the whole topic got quickly away from his control and he just couldn't find suitable words to explain himself. To be fair to him, I thought the passengers involved got a bit hostile too. What do you say to someone when they threaten to take their business elsewhere? You've already lost the battle so there is nothing to say, really.

Whatever direction Celebrity is heading, it is not a spur-of-the-moment decision. As the younger posters above have stated, they have money to spend and want to enjoy the nice product that Celebrity offers. Celebrity has done their research. To be harshly honest, the group including people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and even 60s, represent about 50 years worth of new potential cruise customers vs a demographic of people in their 70s and 80s who represent only 20 years of potential customers who spend less and less while on board. Purely a business decision. Lest you think we represent that young whippersnapper generation, we are in our early 60s with children who are very much in this younger desirable demographic. We see exactly why Celebrity is targeting them. Ha! In fact, Celebrity doesn't want us older generation taking our business elsewhere...they just want us to bring along our children and grandchildren who will spend all the money!!