Smoking Policy & On Deck For a Cure...Hyprcritical?

[POA1]

Virtually every organization can be seen as hypocritical in some fashion when examined closely. Government getting tax revenues from cigarettes while requiring health warnings; states selling lottery tickets to people who cannot afford to make such losing bets and then providing welfare support; dentists who give lollipops to child patients; parents who give their children junk food and then shop at Whole Foods; people who go to church and pray and then despise their neighbors -- it's just part of being human, or being run by humans: we happen to be not perfect, but that is what makes us fun.

 

Well put!

[POA1]

There is a great deal of research that appears to indicate that breast cancer occurs extremely infrequently in countries that do not have a dairy industry and where the consumption of dairy products are very low.. China pre mid 80's is one. Should the cruise lines take away all dairy products?

 

What about other issues. If heart ailments/stokes were a cause, should the cruise line cease serving food to obese passengers. This would be a huge money saver for them. Especially in America where obesity rates are so alarmingly high.

 

For the most part the difference in reported rates are a reporting issue. This is especially so more nearly a half century ago. Dairy was a first world first world foodstuff.

 

Just because something is coincident doesn't mean it's causal. If you map US rice consumption (especially brown and whole grain rices) they look to follow US obesity trends. It's just a coincidence.

[nana51]

Cancer patient and non smoker here... I have to respectfully disagree. The decision to smoke is a personal one and while it does increase your odds is not a death sentence. Just as those that want to over eat, indulge in fatty foods, drink etc make their own choices. One thing I get sick of hearing about is that this cancer is somehow my own fault. As long as the smoking isn't everywhere then I'm okay with this.

 

As for the cancer support walks, are they still doing them? I had heard they were non cancer specific now and not breast only. I hope that is true. :)

 

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Yes, apparently you can specify to which cancer cause you want to support. Besides breast cancer isn't only caused by smoking. Most breast cancer patients I know never smoked. So I don't see what this has to do with anything. I would prefer they limit drinking. There are plenty of deaths due to drinking, whether through alcohol abuse or drunk driving. I hate the smell of exhaust while downtown, they aren't going to ban cars, trucks and buses downtown though. You can't control every aspect of your life.

[RuthC]

There is no hostility here. I respectfully believe that if enough Holland America passengers on Cruise Critic "rock the boat" by expressing their opinion that Holland America's policy on smoking in the common areas, balconies and the Casino is outdated and needs to better limit smoking, Corporate will listen. Or we can just keep quiet...and nothing changes. Any more thoughts?

Now that you've clarified that you are not against Walk For a Cause, and where you don't like people to smoke, would you mind posting where you do want the smoking areas of the ship to be?

Or perhaps you want a non-smoking ship entirely? Is that it?

 

One thing I learned well in my career is that you never pose a problem without posing a solution. Go ahead and pose what you feel is the solution.

[jtl513]

I respectfully believe that if enough Holland America passengers on Cruise Critic "rock the boat" by expressing their opinion that Holland America's policy ... to better limit smoking, Corporate will listen.

Cruise Critic members account for about 5% of HAL's customers, and about 1/5 of them are smokers. A "campaign" here will have little impact. HAL already knows what the "antis" want, but nothing will change until enough people express their opinions in end-of-cruise comments and then vote with their feet.

 

Neither I nor DW smoke any longer, but HAL on-board smoking policies do not bother us enough to drive us elsewhere.

Edited June 3, 2014 by jtl513

[chrispb]

I do strongly support the walks. I am suggesting that HAL update their Smoking Policy.

 

They already did! No smoking in staterooms, bars or lounges. Do you want jam on it too?:cool:

[twodjs]

HAL should at the very least mimic Celebrity with no smoking on balconies and in the Casino. They provide about three common smoking areas outside on upper decks. What a relief to actually enjoy a balcony or a smoke-free Casino!

[Mytime2014]

One thing I learned well in my career is that you never pose a problem without posing a solution. Go ahead and pose what you feel is the solution.

 

 

A lesson from my best boss every - do NOT bring me a problem without at least 2 possible solutions....

 

that and - focus on the areas over which you have control or influence. Everything else just makes you crazy!!

[babyher]

Hey they host "Friends of Bill W." meetings on board and God Knows they allow drinking. It's six of one , half dozen of the other.

[pv girl]

hey they host "friends of bill w." meetings on board and god knows they allow drinking. It's six of one , half dozen of the other.

 

bingo !

[twodjs]

Not the same...another person's drinking doesn't effect my health and comfort on the ship - smoking does!

[mrluckycharms]

Virtually every organization can be seen as hypocritical in some fashion when examined closely. Government getting tax revenues from cigarettes while requiring health warnings; states selling lottery tickets to people who cannot afford to make such losing bets and then providing welfare support; dentists who give lollipops to child patients; parents who give their children junk food and then shop at Whole Foods; people who go to church and pray and then despise their neighbors -- it's just part of being human, or being run by humans: we happen to be not perfect, but that is what makes us fun.

 

And don't forget me! Respiratory therapist who hands out cigarettes and matches to known smokers! Yes I do!! In this day and age with a tough economy....job preservation is very important!

 

I also carry brochures with names of various Oxygen Home Care Specialists and the different sizes of oxygen cylinders they carry. Gotta be prepared!

[rafinmd]

They already did! No smoking in staterooms, bars or lounges. Do you want jam on it too?:cool:

 

HAL should at the very least mimic Celebrity with no smoking on balconies and in the Casino. They provide about three common smoking areas outside on upper decks. What a relief to actually enjoy a balcony or a smoke-free Casino!

 

I'm with chrispb on this. While it would be nice for me if HAL stopped smoking on balconys, I'll take HAL's wide open public decks any day where it's easy to give smokers a wide berth over a Celebrity ship where a balcony is necessary because there are so few good public viewpoints. My last Celebrity cruise was on the Summit where I was glad to have a port balcony because the ONLY public portside viewpoint was aft of the lido where the portside was a smoking area with an unbelievable stench.

 

Roy

[waASPCrusier]

Not the same...another person's drinking doesn't effect my health and comfort on the ship - smoking does!

 

I thought you were started this thread on the hypocritical nature of allowing smoking and sponsoring the On deck for a Cure ? Now it just sounds like you don't like cig smoke, which is fine, but not really the thread topic you started.

[idiebabe]

I find it hypocritical that Holland America strongly supports "On Deck For a Cure" walks on every cruise and at the same time allows smoking in common areas, balconies and the Casino!

 

What about skin cancer and sunshine? Smoking does not cause Skin Cancer. It's hereditary especially in fair people exposed to the Sun. Should sunbathing also be banned? Should the deck chairs only be allowed in Shady areas?

 

If you believe a whiff now and then over the course of a Cruise or just the smell from a cigarette (even though no smoke is actually touching you) will cause you cancer on a Ship that is 99.% smoke free, then stay away from Smoking areas. It's that simple!

[YubaSutter]

I find it hypocritical that Holland America strongly supports "On Deck For a Cure" walks on every cruise and at the same time allows smoking in common areas, balconies and the Casino!

 

All cancers are not caused by smoking. I have had friends with lung, stomach, colon, kidney, and pancreatic cancers. None of them were smokers.

[RuthC]

HAL should at the very least mimic Celebrity with no smoking on balconies and in the Casino. They provide about three common smoking areas outside on upper decks. What a relief to actually enjoy a balcony or a smoke-free Casino!

 

So then answer the question: where do you want the smoking areas to be on the HAL ships?

Or, do you want smoking banned on the ships entirely?

[sail7seas]

All cancers are not caused by smoking. I have had friends with lung, stomach, colon, kidney, and pancreatic cancers. None of them were smokers.

 

 

Of course, you are correct not all cancers are caused by cigarettes but so many cases are. Perhaps some of those cases were.

 

Maybe some of those friends breathed a lot of second hand smoke from someone in their household? Or maybe not?

 

Lung cancer could welll have been caused by exposure to asbestos?

We all know cigarettes are not the sole, exclusive cause of cancer but they sure to cause plenty of illness.

 

[Sow There]

Speaking of hypocrisy, how many of you cruisers are concerned about the dangers of global warming and the destruction of our atmosphere caused by excessive greenhouse gasses, yet are content to go on a cruise which has an enormous carbon footprint.

 

And how many use an airplane to travel to and/or from the ship, also with a huge carbon footprint?

 

If people would express their disdain for those greedy cruise lines and airlines who don't care about the environment by not patronizing them, the reduction in melanomas (skin cancer) would be substantially reduced.

 

Why the attention to just smoking, where the potential for avoiding the risk of lung cancer is so much easier? Where is the focus on the damage caused by destruction of the ozone by cruise line, airlines, autos and, worst of all, carbon belching municipal bus lines?

 

Balance, people. Balance. Boycott the cruise lines until they find a way to propel themselves without generating excessive amounts of CO2.

[twodjs]

Wow, I go to sleep and the topic takes all kinds of turns. A couple of posts ago I was simply trying to answer questions posed by posts. How great it would be if Holland America, who supports the On Deck For a Cure event (a fund-raising walk to support cancer cures) would truly step up to the plate and bring their smoking policy up to current leading cruise lines standards - that being no smoking on balconies, casinos or in most public areas. Their present policy is so 10 years ago! While their company does good things for causes, in this case they're saying one thing but not demonstrating their real support with an outdated policy. That's what I find hypocritical. Fixing that could be a huge PR plus for them and an actual benefit for the vast majority of their guests. Now, your thoughts?

[twodjs]

In answer to RUTHC, no smoking is probably not going to work, so I would suggest, as I mentioned earlier, copying the Celebrity approach on the Solstice class ships (not the older ones) and providing smoking in a few limited areas on top decks. In the case of Holland America, the Zaandam, during a recent cruise, seemed to have a smoking area on the starboard side of the back pool. That could be one area. Of course, in your case, chocolate would be served on the port side of the pool.

[RuthC]

How great it would be if Holland America, who supports the On Deck For a Cure event (a fund-raising walk to support cancer cures) would truly step up to the plate and bring their smoking policy up to current leading cruise lines standards - that being no smoking on balconies, casinos or in most public areas. ... Now, your thoughts?

My thought is that you have refused---not just failed---to answer my question. Until you do choose to fully discuss the matter of smoking, I can't help but think you are just posting to stir the pot.

[sherilyn70]

While their company does good things for causes, in this case they're saying one thing but not demonstrating their real support with an outdated policy. That's what I find hypocritical. Fixing that could be a huge PR plus for them and an actual benefit for the vast majority of their guests. Now, your thoughts?

This makes no sense to me. allowing people to partake in a legal practice is not a contradiction. Smoking is a legal and personal decision each person must make for themselves. I see patients even at my cancer hospital going out for smokes, they aren't telling their patients they can't do it.

 

You clearly are against smoking. It seems to me that you are taking advantage of those of us with cancer to try and rally your cause. I do not appreciate that. If you do not like smokers then go to a line that meets your needs. I don't ask that they ban drinking because it causes liver problems.

 

 

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[DaveOKC]

Of course, you are correct not all cancers are caused by cigarettes but so many cases are. Perhaps some of those cases were.

 

Maybe some of those friends breathed a lot of second hand smoke from someone in their household? Or maybe not?

 

Lung cancer could welll have been caused by exposure to asbestos?

We all know cigarettes are not the sole, exclusive cause of cancer but they sure to cause plenty of illness.

 

 

My Dad was a smoker, he worked around asbestos weekly and he was a coal miner for a few years. He died in a freak accident at age 85 and they had to autopsy him. It showed no significant ill effects (on his lungs) from any of this. Go figure.......

 

DaveOKC

Edited June 3, 2014 by DaveOKC

[BruceMuzz]

The Number 1 Cause of death in America today is not Cancer - but obesity-related illnesses.

 

Aren't ALL the cruise lines being hypocritical by offering us all the food we can eat, around the clock, (knowing that many cruisers are unable to control their personal behavior) while advertising a healthy luxury cruise?

I say bean sprouts, brown rice, and tofu only, twice a day. And no pizza, ice cream, or desserts.

Turn off the elevators and force everyone to walk their chubby a$$es up the stairs.

 

And what about alcohol?

Alcoholism is a very serious problem in America.

The cruise lines are happy to hold Friends of Bill W Meetings, but you can't get to the meeting without passing one or two bars. Sometimes the Friends of Bill W Meeting is held IN a bar!!!

Talk about hypocrisy.................

Close all the bars. The cruise ships should be DRY.

 

And don't get me started on lawn mowers.

Every year in America, over 500 people are killed by riding lawn mowers. Thousands more are injured - every year.

Yet your local television station runs ad after ad about beautiful lawns. And you and your neighbors oohh and aahh over someone's beautifully manicured yard.

Very hypocritical my friends. People are dying out there - and you do not seem to care.

Pave it over and spray-paint it green.

Edited June 3, 2014 by BruceMuzz