New York To Ft. Lauderdale, 3 Day Cruise, Yes Or No!!!!!

[bigjohn42]

We are booked for a 13 night Canada/New England cruise onboard the Maasdam sailing 10-18-2014 and you have the option of either a 10 day, getting off in New York, or a 13 getting off in Ft. Lauderdale. My question is we have friends in New York who would love to meet up with us in the city and then board with us for the remaining 3 days to Ft. Lauderdale. Iam not showing anywhere this could be possible. Does that mean that whomever disembarked in New York, there cabins would then not be used and they would sail those rooms empty? Would love to have them on and I was thinking of calling Hal, but thought I would put the question out there, thanks so much!!! :confused:

[RuthC]

It would be a violation of the PVSA for the Maasdam, as a foreign flagged vessel, to transport passengers from one US city (NYC) to another US city (Ft. Lauderdale) without stopping at a distant foreign port.

[Hlitner]

I do not believe it would be possible for your friends to board in NYC and then debark in Florida. That is a violation of the PVSA (often referred to as the Jones Act) that prohibits foreign flagged ships from transporting passengers directly between 2 US ports. This law has been on the books since the late 1800s...and you can blame your Senators and Congressmen for not repealing this antiquated act.

 

Hank

[CaveDiving]

... Does that mean that whomever disembarked in New York, there cabins would then not be used and they would sail those rooms empty?

 

No it does not mean the cabins would be empty. They may be filled by pax who wish to embark in NYC and are continuing on with the Maasdam from Ft. Lauderdale to the Med on Oct.31.

 

Scott & Karen

[CaveDiving]

I do not believe it would be possible for your friends to board in NYC and then debark in Florida. That is a violation of the PVSA (often referred to as the Jones Act) that prohibits foreign flagged ships from transporting passengers directly between 2 US ports. This law has been on the books since the late 1800s...and you can blame your Senators and Congressmen for not repealing this antiquated act.

 

Hank

 

Well I for one, definitely do not blame anyone for not repealing this act. I surely don't want to see Malaysian Airlines flying passengers from Boston to L.A. or the Tijuana bus line carrying passengers from Phoenix to Seattle.

 

The PVSA affects ALL passenger vessels, not just cruise ships.

 

Scott & Karen

[POA1]

Removed by giant robots

Edited July 15, 2014 by POA1

[Krazy Kruizers]

For starters Between New York to Ft Lauderdale-- you need to stop at a foreign port. And on that short segment that doesn't happen.

 

Edited July 15, 2014 by Krazy Kruizers

[Krazy Kruizers]

No it does not mean the cabins would be empty. They may be filled by pax who wish to embark in NYC and are continuing on with the Maasdam from Ft. Lauderdale to the Med on Oct.31.

 

Scott & Karen

 

I must be missing something on HAL's site.

I can not find a cruise for the Maasdam that starts in New York, goes down to Ft Lauderdale and then over to Europe.

I just see the 42 day TA and Europe and back starting from Ft Lauderdale.

[RuthC]

For starters Between New York to Ft Lauderdale-- you need to stop at a foreign port.

There are two different types of foreign ports---"near" and "distant".

 

When a foreign ship is returning passengers to the same US port where they embarked, a "near" foreign port visit is sufficient. When a foreign ship is transporting passengers from one US port to another, which the original question is about, then it's necessary for the ship to visit a "distant" foreign port.

 

Your statement that "you need to stop at a foreign port" is not completely accurate, as the port must be "distant".

[sail7seas]

Well I for one, definitely do not blame anyone for not repealing this act. I surely don't want to see Malaysian Airlines flying passengers from Boston to L.A. or the Tijuana bus line carrying passengers from Phoenix to Seattle.

 

The PVSA affects ALL passenger vessels, not just cruise ships.

 

Scott & Karen

 

 

 

Lawmakers could revise certain portions of PVSA without changing the entire ACT. If they wished, they could except cruise ships for certain types of itineraries.

 

[take us away]

You have nothing to lose by calling HAL and asking them or have your TA do this for you - and you may get a surprise as the Jones Act may be per voyage not per passenger (personally I do not know but HAL does).

[sail7seas]

There are stiff fines if a cruise line knowingly violates the PVSA and permits passengers to sail in violation.

 

Edited July 15, 2014 by sail7seas

[Winters in NZ]

Well I for one, definitely do not blame anyone for not repealing this act. I surely don't want to see Malaysian Airlines flying passengers from Boston to L.A. or the Tijuana bus line carrying passengers from Phoenix to Seattle.

 

The PVSA affects ALL passenger vessels, not just cruise ships.

 

Scott & Karen

 

I would love to hop on a Tijuana bus line from Boston to LA, packing more Corona than luggage.

[KirkNC]

Well I for one, definitely do not blame anyone for not repealing this act. I surely don't want to see Malaysian Airlines flying passengers from Boston to L.A. or the Tijuana bus line carrying passengers from Phoenix to Seattle.

 

The PVSA affects ALL passenger vessels, not just cruise ships.

 

Scott & Karen

 

Why if they do it safely and at a lower cost, provide better service etc. one could always choose not to use them. I think this act should be repealed, it was passed in 1920, the world has changed a bit since than.

[jtl513]

You have nothing to lose by calling HAL and asking them or have your TA do this for you - and you may get a surprise as the Jones Act may be per voyage not per passenger (personally I do not know but HAL does).

That would be a waste of time. If this was legal HAL would sell it. RuthC gave the definitive answer in post #2. BTW, the Jones Act applies to cargo and the PVSA apples to people.

 

... it was passed in 1920,

The PVSA was enacted in 1886. The Jones Act of 1920 applies to cargo vessels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886

Edited July 15, 2014 by jtl513

[POA1]

There are stiff fines if a cruise line knowingly violates the PVSA and permits passengers to sail in violation.

 

It's $300 per passenger. It's charged to the carrier.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/709/~/does-cbp-fine-cruise-ships-that-allow-passengers-to-disembark-before-the-end-of

[POA1]

There are two different types of foreign ports---"near" and "distant".

 

When a foreign ship is returning passengers to the same US port where they embarked, a "near" foreign port visit is sufficient. When a foreign ship is transporting passengers from one US port to another, which the original question is about, then it's necessary for the ship to visit a "distant" foreign port.

 

Your statement that "you need to stop at a foreign port" is not completely accurate, as the port must be "distant".

Yes. The definition of distant foreign port is interesting. It does not include Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean Islands.**The ABC islands are though.

[RuthC]

Yes. The definition of distant foreign port is interesting. It does not include Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean Islands.**The ABC islands are though.

Someone posted one of those "close enough for government work" definitions of "near" and "distant" once. A "distant" foreign port is another continent, while a "near" one is this continent. Since the ABC islands are so close to South America---another continent---then they count as "distant'.

 

It may not be a precise explanation, but it works quite well for those of us who are merely discussing it and trying to understand, and not trying to apply the law.

Edited July 15, 2014 by RuthC

[sail7seas]

It's $300 per passenger. It's charged to the carrier.

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/709/~/does-cbp-fine-cruise-ships-that-allow-passengers-to-disembark-before-the-end-of

 

 

That is the fine for an 'involuntary' violation.

 

It is far stiffer if a cruise line intentionally permits a paying passenger to village PVSA. I haven't the time right now to do the research.

 

[Hlitner]

I would love to hop on a Tijuana bus line from Boston to LA, packing more Corona than luggage.

 

As an aside, the intercity bus lines in Mexico are often of higher quality then comparable buses in the US. The better ones often include movies, food served at your seat, nice bathrooms, comfy seats, etc. Not sure if they Corona or Pacifico but we personally would prefer Negra Modelo :).

 

Hank

Edited July 15, 2014 by Hlitner

[POA1]

That is the fine for an 'involuntary' violation.

 

It is far stiffer if a cruise line intentionally permits a paying passenger to village PVSA. I haven't the time right now to do the research.

 

I'm pretty sure that the fine is independent of the intent.

 

http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pvsa_icp_3.pdf

 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/709/~/does-cbp-fine-cruise-ships-that-allow-passengers-to-disembark-before-the-end-of

 

I don't know if a cruise line would think it was worth the hassle. Complying and dealing with the paperwork is probably more expensive than the fine.

Edited July 15, 2014 by POA1

[Typhoon1]

It can't happen. Don't even plant the idea in their heads.

[POA1]

It can't happen. Don't even plant the idea in their heads.

Fair enough. :D

[bigjohn42]

Hey Folks, thanks so much for chiming in with all this great info, I did just get off the phone with a HAL rep and was told there are no 3 day cruises along the east coast like there are along the Pacific coast prior and post to Alaska cruises. She states she cant explain why, just that it is not an option at this time. She said this is certainly not the first time she has had this request. She stated they would have to book the full 13 day cruise and would not be able to embark in New York down to Ft. Lauderdale, but in Montreal. So in a nutshell, our friends are not going :(

Thanks again for all your help!!!! :)

[bigjohn42]

She also stated that, Yes, those who disembark in New York will leave an empty room down to Ft. Lauderdale. She also stated those going on the 42 TA to Europe would also not be able to embark in New York, but in Montreal for a 55 day cruise.