This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Champagne Cruiser]

I was hoping the new ship would signal a change to HALs smoking policy. Although I enjoyed both our HAL cruises I won't be sailing them again until their smoking policy changes. We really appreciate the Celebrity policy with no smoking on balconies or in the Casino.

[tim22361]

We sail HAL because of their balcony smoking policy.

 

I go out of my way to make sure they know this.

[scm1848]

And we're booking suite on long cruises and buying lots of wine and other drinks!!

[cruz chic]

And we're booking suite on long cruises and buying lots of wine and other drinks!!

 

Is that something only smokers do? I wonder how a person goes "out of their way" to let Hal know you apprecite their smoking policy.

[scm1848]

I always let them know that when we can no longer smoke on our verandah, we will stop cruising.

[cruz chic]

I always let them know that when we can no longer smoke on our verandah, we will stop cruising.

 

Ok, to me that is not going out if your way. Thx for letting me know. I let them know I don't like it on my surveys as well. My next 2 cruises are in oceanview rooms thx to their smoking policy. Eventually it will end. It's a shame Hal is dragging their feet on it. Complaining/commenting from either side will do nothing. It will end when they feel it won't hurt them financially.

Edited December 15, 2015 by cruz chic

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

... It will end when they feel it won't hurt them financially.

 

It will end when they man up and do the right thing. Until then, any (non-smoker) is playing Russian Roulette on their balcony.

 

Not that "the numbers" don't have anything to do with it. :)

 

Tom

[Sow There]

Ok, to me that is not going out if your way. Thx for letting me know. I let them know I don't like it on my surveys as well. My next 2 cruises are in oceanview rooms thx to their smoking policy. Eventually it will end. It's a shame Hal is dragging their feet on it. Complaining/commenting from either side will do nothing. It will end when they feel it won't hurt them financially.

I don't think they are "dragging their feet." I think they understand that the vast majority of the cruise customers out there don't decide on a particular cruise based on the cruise line's smoking policy but on many other factors. Of course there are a few who will make such choices and there are also a few who want to have the option to smoke on the balcony. but, just as Carnival learned by their failed experiment with a No Smoking ship (the Paradise). And how did that strict no smoking policy work out for Renaissance Cruise Lines? Remember them?

 

I really think HAL management does understand their market and how their target customers accept policies like smoking, formal night, etc. It's simply an individual choice for a customer when considering a cruise holiday.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Sow There

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

I don't think they are "dragging their feet." I think they understand that the vast majority of the cruise customers out there don't decide on a particular cruise based on the cruise line's smoking policy but on many other factors. Of course there are a few who will make such choices and there are also a few who want to have the option to smoke on the balcony. but, just as Carnival learned by their failed experiment with a No Smoking ship (the Paradise). And how did that strict no smoking policy work out for Renaissance Cruise Lines? Remember them?

 

I really think HAL management does understand their market and how their target customers accept policies like smoking, formal night, etc. It's simply an individual choice for a customer when considering a cruise holiday.

 

I must hand it to Carnival though... for once they were ahead of the times!

 

Tom

[cruz chic]

I don't think they are "dragging their feet." I think they understand that the vast majority of the cruise customers out there don't decide on a particular cruise based on the cruise line's smoking policy but on many other factors. Of course there are a few who will make such choices and there are also a few who want to have the option to smoke on the balcony. but, just as Carnival learned by their failed experiment with a No Smoking ship (the Paradise). And how did that strict no smoking policy work out for Renaissance Cruise Lines? Remember them?

 

I really think HAL management does understand their market and how their target customers accept policies like smoking, formal night, etc. It's simply an individual choice for a customer when considering a cruise holiday.

 

I really wish posters would quit dragging out the carnival ship that went totally non smoking. How many years ago was that, 15 ? Times have changed so is it really relevant? I think very few people would expect a totally non smoking ship. I don't think that is reasonable. While people might not pick a vacation based on smoking policy if all things are equal Hal might get knocked out based on their antiquated policy.

Edited December 15, 2015 by cruz chic

[IRL_Joanie]

I really wish posters would quit dragging out the carnival ship that went totally non smoking. How many years ago was that, 15 ? Times have changed so is it really relevant? I think very few people would expect a totally non smoking ship. I don't think that is reasonable. While people might not pick a vacation based on smoking policy if all things are equal Hal might get knocked out based on their antiquated policy.

 

I am one willing to only cruise with HAL as long as I can smoke on my verandah:)

 

And I make it known not only on my post cruise survey, but also whenever I correspond with HAL.

 

As to how many times are we going to rehash the old Carnival attempt at 100% non smoking ship(s), about as long as it takes for others to quit bringing up a ship or two that supposedly went down/caught fire due to cigarettes (though never proven 100% by experts.).

 

Arguments for both smoking and non smoking will continue as long as there are 2 sides. I am on the pro smoking side.

 

Joanie

[sail7seas]

I really wish posters would quit dragging out the carnival ship that went totally non smoking. How many years ago was that, 15 ? Times have changed so is it really relevant? I think very few people would expect a totally non smoking ship. I don't think that is reasonable. While people might not pick a vacation based on smoking policy if all things are equal Hal might get knocked out based on their antiquated policy.

 

I agree the old Carnival ship Paradise is such old history it is silly to keep mentioning it.

 

That ship changed to permitting smoking at a time when there were far more people still smoking. Since then, millions quit (or sadly died) and smoking is not welcome anywhere near like it used to be.

 

Also, Carnival never changed the itinerary on that ship. People who welcomed the smoke free atmosphere got tired of the same old itinerary and

 

Most importantly of all, the old Paradise argument doesn't apply to HAL's smoking policy.

 

Not many here have said they don't want any smoking on the ship. Most are saying they don't want verandah smoking but would have no issue if HAL provided a clean, comfortable area where smokers could have their smokes. The rest of us (vast majority) would not have to be exposed to their second hand smoke. It would be easily avoided.

 

I am ready to book another HAL cruise but cannot/will not take the risk I could lose use of my verandah. It was always very important to me to have a comfortable verandah to enjoy but now it is almost mandatory. I keep waiting for HAL to change their policy and hesitate to book while their verandah smoking policy remains the same.

 

Most of us here on CC live in countries where majority rules. We, who object to second hand smoke, are an overwhelming majority. Would be nice if HAL recognized that.

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2015 by sail7seas

[cruz chic]

I am one willing to only cruise with HAL as long as I can smoke on my verandah:)

 

And I make it known not only on my post cruise survey, but also whenever I correspond with HAL.

 

As to how many times are we going to rehash the old Carnival attempt at 100% non smoking ship(s), about as long as it takes for others to quit bringing up a ship or two that supposedly went down/caught fire due to cigarettes (though never proven 100% by experts.).

 

Arguments for both smoking and non smoking will continue as long as there are 2 sides. I am on the pro smoking side.

 

Joanie

With all dispute respect, it's been a very long time since I've heard that brought up about the ship burning. The smokeless ship comes up often. Really, the two have nothing to do with each other so I can't see how that is a good comparison.

[Sow There]

I agree the old Carnival ship Paradise is such old history it is silly to keep mentioning it.

 

That ship changed to permitting smoking at a time when there were far more people still smoking. Since then, millions quit (or sadly died) and smoking is not welcome anywhere near like it used to be.

 

Also, Carnival never changed the itinerary on that ship. People who welcomed the smoke free atmosphere got tired of the same old itinerary and

 

Most importantly of all, the old Paradise argument doesn't apply to HAL's smoking policy.

 

Not many here have said they don't want any smoking on the ship. Most are saying they don't want verandah smoking but would have no issue if HAL provided a clean, comfortable area where smokers could have their smokes. The rest of us (vast majority) would not have to be exposed to their second hand smoke. It would be easily avoided...

 

To be specific, the Paradise was built as a no smoking ship in 1998 and stayed that way until 2003. The experiment failed during the 5 years and caused Carnival to change its policy to a limited smoking in 2003, 12+ years ago. Carnival had the opportunity to shuffle itineraries if they felt that the issue was an unchanging itinerary. Clearly they must have felt it was the smoking policy, not the static itinerary.

 

Similarly, Renaissance Cruises, the only cruise line that banned smoking altogether on all of its ships, went out of business in 2001. There are a number of possible reasons why Renaissance went out of business so it's unlikely anyone can legitimately blame their failure on the smoking policy alone. But telling smokers they weren't welcome on board a Renaissance ship couldn't have helped.

 

Carnival Corp, in particular Holland America, is fully cognizant of the history and I'm sure they understand their market. They are currently the only cruise line that still permits balcony (veranda) smoking (at least as a policy). (Who knows how well the smoking policy is being enforced on other lines? Celebrity, for one, has an enforcement problem.)

All that said, we can discuss HAL's smoking policy until the cows come home but unless and until HAL decides that, as a policy matter, smoking will no longer be permitted on verandas will result in plus business.

[sail7seas]

To be specific, the Paradise was built as a no smoking ship in 1998 and stayed that way until 2003. The experiment failed during the 5 years and caused Carnival to change its policy to a limited smoking in 2003, 12+ years ago. Carnival had the opportunity to shuffle itineraries if they felt that the issue was an unchanging itinerary. Clearly they must have felt it was the smoking policy, not the static itinerary.

 

Similarly, Renaissance Cruises, the only cruise line that banned smoking altogether on all of its ships, went out of business in 2001. There are a number of possible reasons why Renaissance went out of business so it's unlikely anyone can legitimately blame their failure on the smoking policy alone. But telling smokers they weren't welcome on board a Renaissance ship couldn't have helped.

 

Carnival Corp, in particular Holland America, is fully cognizant of the history and I'm sure they understand their market. They are currently the only cruise line that still permits balcony (veranda) smoking (at least as a policy). (Who knows how well the smoking policy is being enforced on other lines? Celebrity, for one, has an enforcement problem.)

All that said, we can discuss HAL's smoking policy until the cows come home but unless and until HAL decides that, as a policy matter, smoking will no longer be permitted on verandas will result in plus business.

 

 

Yes, indeed,

All well known. Nothing new but then again there is nothing much new in this whole thread. :)

 

The only thing new that will be of much interest will be a change in HAL's policy.

 

[blueboro]

To be specific, the Paradise was built as a no smoking ship in 1998 and stayed that way until 2003. The experiment failed during the 5 years and caused Carnival to change its policy to a limited smoking in 2003, 12+ years ago. Carnival had the opportunity to shuffle itineraries if they felt that the issue was an unchanging itinerary. Clearly they must have felt it was the smoking policy, not the static itinerary.

 

Similarly, Renaissance Cruises, the only cruise line that banned smoking altogether on all of its ships, went out of business in 2001. There are a number of possible reasons why Renaissance went out of business so it's unlikely anyone can legitimately blame their failure on the smoking policy alone. But telling smokers they weren't welcome on board a Renaissance ship couldn't have helped.

 

Carnival Corp, in particular Holland America, is fully cognizant of the history and I'm sure they understand their market. They are currently the only cruise line that still permits balcony (veranda) smoking (at least as a policy). (Who knows how well the smoking policy is being enforced on other lines? Celebrity, for one, has an enforcement problem.)

All that said, we can discuss HAL's smoking policy until the cows come home but unless and until HAL decides that, as a policy matter, smoking will no longer be permitted on verandas will result in plus business.

 

I have never seen an enforcement problem on my numerous Celebrity cruises. They will give one warning and then fine the person. They have very limited smoking areas and thankfully no smoking on the balcony or Casino. Most thought their casino's would be dead because of the no-smoking rule but it seems to have helped...a real "breath of fresh air".

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

... Most thought their casino's would be dead because of the no-smoking rule but it seems to have helped...a real "breath of fresh air".

 

Yes, most often it's this fear of the unknown, or the pressure from the "vocal minority" which causes foot dragging - in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

 

Tom

[Vineyard View]

We loved HAL ship and people. We hated smoking on balcony and due to medical condition cannot sail with them until or if that ever changes. I check back here from time to time to see if it has changed.

I think honestly what is Changing is that HAL is one of the last hold outs allowing smoking on balconies, and therefore is attracting more and more smokers.

Clearly HAL recognizes this and it is their choice to grow that market segment of cruising passengers.

Until then, there are plenty of great non HAL non smoking balcony choices.

[PhoenixCruiser]

We sail HAL because of their balcony smoking policy.

 

I go out of my way to make sure they know this.

 

And we're booking suite on long cruises and buying lots of wine and other drinks!!

 

Same here! We sailed on HAL for the first time this year due to being able to smoke on the balcony. We have another cruise planned for the same reason next year.

 

Due to the amount of $$ spent onboard we received extra points in addition to the double points for booking a suite.

 

Works for us!!

[Vineyard View]

And there you have it.

 

Holland America is the go to cruise line for smokers.....It works for you.

[ithaca gal]

I am a member of the vast majority that does not smoke. I have not had the misfortune of having a Verandah next to a smoker but would complain bitterly if my verandah use was spoiled by cigarette smoke wafting into my space. Yes, I know it is a chance I take but I've been lucky so far. In the casino, I avoid sitting near smokers whenever possible but point out nonplaying smokers to the manager. I am at a loss as to why the minority is being catered to in this case.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

And there you have it.

 

Holland America is the go to cruise line for smokers.....It works for you.

 

Birds of a feather...

 

Tom

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

... I am at a loss as to why the minority is being catered to in this case.

 

It's similar to the way fervent groups of protesters, though not necessarily representing a majority of individuals, can be bring about (indeed force) change.

 

Right now it's the smokers (minority) who are making their desires known on HAL. I'm sure if the silent majority (non-smokers) were to become focused or organized, that HAL would stand up and listen. Not a big chance of that anytime soon, as most of the general public will sit by and simply wait for change!

 

Tom

[cruisemom42]

I am at a loss as to why the minority is being catered to in this case.

 

Perhaps a niche market that other lines are not catering to?

[Vineyard View]

We splurged on a Neptune Suite For a 21 day. There were smokers next to and below - we rarely were able to enjoy the beautiful veranda - the pool outside was a huge smokers haven - and casino was as most were. It was very difficult to find an outside area on the Ryndam that we did not smell smoke.

 

I believe that the voices of non smokers are shared in surveys - I believe also that HAL knows exactly what they are catering to. HAL has picked up cruisers from other lines that no longer have the smoking flexibility that HAL continues to offer. They are consciously making the choice.

 

All one has to do is look at how long and active this thread is....HAL and every other cruise line monitors Cruise Critic.

 

HAL continues to make the choice and is fully aware....