This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[sail7seas]

KJW,

We are going to have to change the Mariner Logo we use when posting. :(

Then again, maybe I'll leave it just the way it is.

 

Back to picking nits..... :)

 

[kennicott]

If we're nitpicking the precise words used rather than the point of the message that HAL would not allow any officer (even the captain) to modify the ship's smoking policy in a "lone wolf" fashion due to... a personal preference, a hunch or a "hey what if...?" then sure...

 

Exactly. The day of Noordam's Christening we were in Oak Room.

Captain Draper is fabulous and this provides still another reason for me to respect him greatly. :)

 

 

That's quite a reach to suggest that the "Captain modified Corporate policy". The way I read him is that he simply "encouraged" guests to try out the Oak Room instead of puffing away on their balconies. Nice, but no big deal. Establishing and reversing corporate policy would have had to include abolishment of balcony smoking on the Noordam, he did no such thing. I doubt if Stein Kruse had a say in it, that would be micro-management.

 

We just got off Princess, the staff captain there recommended that guests use their stateroom restrooms instead of the public restrooms in order to reduce the transmission of disease. General corporate policy for him to do that? I doubt that too. Because just 14 days before that we got off another Princess ship, the staff captain there said nothing about a recommendation to utilize cabin restrooms over public ones.

[kjw869]

KJW,

We are going to have to change the Mariner Logo we use when posting. :(

Then again, maybe I'll leave it just the way it is.

 

Back to picking nits..... :)

 

 

I'm leaving my logo the way it is. I'm not messing around with any nits! ;)

[POA1]

"Picking nits", that's classic. I have to remember to use that line! :)

It's all yours. :)

[mame42]

It seems most cruise lines hold info on these changes close to their chest. Even if the policy were to change tomorrow they'd likely be denying it today.

 

The FAQ section on smoking on the HAL website states that HAL reserves the right to change smoking policies at any time without prior notification (I am paraphrasing, too lazy to find the exact quote). But I reread it just two days ago.

[kennicott]

I also don't see the Oak Room as a step toward banning balcony smoking. In fact, I see it as completely opposite and that it shows that HAL is committed to its passengers who smoke.

 

Passengers who are spending the majority of their time on their balconies are not out and about the ship spending money. This is a huge problem for a cruise line that earns its profits from on-board spending. To increase its profits, HAL has to get all its passengers to spend more. What better way to get passengers who smoke to get out and about then to create a social room/bar/lounge especially for them?

 

I see this as HAL embracing and welcoming its passengers who smoke and do not see this as HAL acknowledging that balcony smoking is an issue. I expect this move to attract more passengers who smoke to HAL.

 

As much as I would like to be an optimist on this issue and see the glass as half full instead of half empty I completely agree with cbr 663's assessment here.

 

We pretty much all appear to agree that establishment of exclusive smoking lounges on all HAL ships isn't going to go very far toward reducing balcony smoking unless those new lounges are accompanied by a ban on balcony smoking. It is hard to imagine that HAL management would not agree with that and would never ban balcony smoking without providing a smoking lounge alternative for their guest smokers, on each ship.

 

It appears to me that if Stein Kruse currently has any intention at all of providing additional smoking lounges he would have done so on the new Koningsdam. Unless I'm missing something in that ship's deck plans there is no "Oak Room" or an equivalent. It isn't all that long before she enters service either.

Edited November 12, 2015 by kennicott

[Krazy Kruizers]

In 2009 and 2011 the Oak Room on the Noordam was used for the VIP parties as they were able to open the doors to the outside deck. It was really nice. No smoking those nights.

In 2011 the Oak Room was still open morning, afternoon and evening for smokers.

Don't know when it was closed. But as I mentioned it was closed except for the Friends of Bill W and a couple of small meetings in the fall of 2014.

I am still curious if they kept the artificial fireplace.

[jadona48]

As much as I would like to be an optimist on this issue and see the glass as half full instead of half empty I completely agree with cbr 663's assessment here.

 

We pretty much all appear to agree that establishment of exclusive smoking lounges on all HAL ships isn't going to go very far toward reducing balcony smoking unless those new lounges are accompanied by a ban on balcony smoking. It is hard to imagine that HAL management would not agree with that and would never ban balcony smoking without providing a smoking lounge alternative for their guest smokers, on each ship.

 

It appears to me that if Stein Kruse currently has any intention at all of providing additional smoking lounges he would have done so on the new Koningsdam. Unless I'm missing something in that ship's deck plans there is no "Oak Room" or an equivalent. It isn't all that long before she enters service either.

 

I don't necessarily believe that Mr. Kruse has the final say on the smoking issue on the HAL fleet. It is my opinion that CCL looks at the demographic of the typical HAL passenger and has deemed that HAL will have the least restrictive smoking policy in the fleet. CCL does and should look at their entire fleet in their attempt to grow their business. Some lines within the fleet have smoking policies similar to their main competition NCL, Royal Caribbean etc., while others within the fleet most notably HAL, accommodate and arguably attract smoking passengers. Said a different way, if HAL were a stand alone line, it is more likely that they, HAL, would need to modify their policy to grow their business.

 

Just a thought...

[cruiseing marly]

I don't necessarily believe that Mr. Kruse has the final say on the smoking issue on the HAL fleet. It is my opinion that CCL looks at the demographic of the typical HAL passenger and has deemed that HAL will have the least restrictive smoking policy in the fleet. CCL does and should look at their entire fleet in their attempt to grow their business. Some lines within the fleet have smoking policies similar to their main competition NCL, Royal Caribbean etc., while others within the fleet most notably HAL, accommodate and arguably attract smoking passengers. Said a different way, if HAL were a stand alone line, it is more likely that they, HAL, would need to modify their policy to grow their business.

 

Just a thought...

 

It seems odd to me that Costa does not allow smoking on balconys and HAL does . Costa being from Italy were smoking is like in North America at least thirty years ago ! Especially with Holland America's customer base coming from country's were smoking is way less acceptable ! Would it not make more sense for Costa to have the more liberal policies !

[jadona48]

It seems odd to me that Costa does not allow smoking on balconys and HAL does . Costa being from Italy were smoking is like in North America at least thirty years ago ! Especially with Holland America's customer base coming from country's were smoking is way less acceptable ! Would it not make more sense for Costa to have the more liberal policies !

 

Your point is very well taken. HAL also attracts a number of Europeans and I may be exaggerating but it seems to me that many of the Dutch officers are smokers. Could be an issue in CCL's decision. No way of knowing.

[cruz chic]

Your point is very well taken. HAL also attracts a number of Europeans and I may be exaggerating but it seems to me that many of the Dutch officers are smokers. Could be an issue in CCL's decision. No way of knowing.

 

I very much doubt if an employer takes into consideration how many of its employees smoke before changing policy. It will change it for business reasons only.

[mame42]

Your point is very well taken. HAL also attracts a number of Europeans and I may be exaggerating but it seems to me that many of the Dutch officers are smokers. Could be an issue in CCL's decision. No way of knowing.

 

I did notice that on the Maasdam transatlantic in 2014 that the majority of the smokers on the aft deck by the bar were officers.

[Blue Mudshark]

I did notice that on the Maasdam transatlantic in 2014 that the majority of the smokers on the aft deck by the bar were officers.

 

Do the officers and/or crew have smoking areas on the crew decks?

[IRL_Joanie]

Do the officers and/or crew have smoking areas on the crew decks?

 

Not sure about the Officers, but I do know that the crew has one that they described as a room. They said the room was more like a box configuration and that is their area below decks.

 

Crew is not allowed to smoke anywhere else on board. Officers are allowed to smoke behind the Aft Lido Sea View Bar area. That is where I've been able to meet so many of the officers on our cruises.

 

Joanie

[taxmantoo]

I would expect that from govt but private industry is generally quite different. I can just imagine if non smokers demanded equal breaks to smokers in private industry. You'd be quickly shown the door. Hal is not government.

 

Agreed, but sometimes their decision making process is just as bad :D

[albingirl]

Not sure about the Officers, but I do know that the crew has one that they described as a room. They said the room was more like a box configuration and that is their area below decks.

 

Crew is not allowed to smoke anywhere else on board. Officers are allowed to smoke behind the Aft Lido Sea View Bar area. That is where I've been able to meet so many of the officers on our cruises.

 

Joanie

 

I've seen officers in that area from time to time, but the area smells so badly that I have to leave very quickly. They hover under the roof and the smoke just collects there. So, I've never met any officers in that area nor would I want to. But, that being said, they need to smoke somewhere and that's a better place than the balcony next to mine.

Edited November 12, 2015 by albingirl
incomplete

[Lizzie68]

I've seen officers in that area from time to time, but the area smells so badly that I have to leave very quickly. They hover under the roof and the smoke just collects there. So, I've never met any officers in that area nor would I want to. But, that being said, they need to smoke somewhere and that's a better place than the balcony next to mine.

 

They also gather to smoke on the top deck outside of the Crows Nest - there is a small area there. What is worse is when they come inside after a smoke and get in the elevator with you.:rolleyes: That's another good reason to use the stairs.

[Hlitner]

Just saw an interesting CC Poll on the Celebrity board. The poll was asking about opinions on many facets of cruising including smoking, Open Dining, etc. There were several hundred responses, but the smoking issue was telling. When given several options nearly 94% of respondents said that Celebrity did the right thing by banning smoking in cabins and cabin balconies. And when asked about banning smoking in the casino (Celebrity allows no smoking in their casinos) 84% supported the policy.

 

The 94% figure really surprised us as we thought it was higher then we would expect when reading this thread. The Casino percentage seems to be along the lines with the percentage of non-smokers in the general population.

 

Hank

[kennicott]

Just saw an interesting CC Poll on the Celebrity board. The poll was asking about opinions on many facets of cruising including smoking, Open Dining, etc. There were several hundred responses, but the smoking issue was telling. When given several options nearly 94% of respondents said that Celebrity did the right thing by banning smoking in cabins and cabin balconies. And when asked about banning smoking in the casino (Celebrity allows no smoking in their casinos) 84% supported the policy.

 

The 94% figure really surprised us as we thought it was higher then we would expect when reading this thread. The Casino percentage seems to be along the lines with the percentage of non-smokers in the general population.

 

Hank

 

Thanks for the tip. A while back on this thread we were playing around with the demographics of smokers in the US, worldwide and on cruise ships. If I recall correctly we assumed about 8%, at the max, were smokers on cruise ships. Of course that percentage would be higher on HAL since they have a more open smoking policy now than those of the other majors, balconies. Looks to me like some smokers on Celebrity even voted in approval of a ban on balcony and cabin smoking, quite significant. While, some non-smokers probably go along with casino smoking on Celebrity ships. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=6048

[albingirl]

Thanks for the tip. A while back on this thread we were playing around with the demographics of smokers in the US, worldwide and on cruise ships. If I recall correctly we assumed about 8%, at the max, were smokers on cruise ships. Of course that percentage would be higher on HAL since they have a more open smoking policy now than those of the other majors, balconies. Looks to me like some smokers on Celebrity even voted in approval of a ban on balcony and cabin smoking, quite significant. While, some non-smokers probably go along with casino smoking on Celebrity ships. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=6048

 

And, on the long cruises, I would seriously guess that maybe 2 or 3 percent of the guests smoke. Most of the smokers are staff from the gift shops or officers. Certainly the aged population on the very long cruisers are not like the Caribbean cruisers; they don't drink much and they certainly don't smoke. I am very, very surprised that Holland America has ignored, ignored, ignored the pleas from the majority; it is incredible that they ignore the discomfort of the majority of their cruisers to gain some monetary benefit from the minority.

[Constance331]

According to Holland America's website on smoking on outside decks, question, please:

 

One outside area is listed as the Observation Deck. Does this mean the entire Observation Deck? I note on the ms Nieuw Amsterdam, the Crow's Nest is located there, which is an indoor venue..... So I doubt that the entire deck allows smoking.:confused:

[jimmy2x]

All I've ever seen is a small area on the starboard adjacent to the Crows Nest. Outside and only comprises a few tables with ashtrays.

[cbr663]

Just off the NA's December 6th sailing and had no issues with cigarette smoke on our balcony whatsoever.

 

But, we did have an issue on Half Moon Cay. The couple that rented the clamshell next to us abandoned it around mid morning when we experienced a thunder shower. Not long after the weather cleared up, another couple decided to take over the clamshell who were smokers. I am not aware of any smoking restrictions on HMC. Does anyone know if there are any smoking restrictions on HMC?

[freestyling]

There are no smoking restrictions at HMC that I am aware of

[sail7seas]

According to Holland America's website on smoking on outside decks, question, please:

 

One outside area is listed as the Observation Deck. Does this mean the entire Observation Deck? I note on the ms Nieuw Amsterdam, the Crow's Nest is located there, which is an indoor venue..... So I doubt that the entire deck allows smoking.:confused:

 

Crow's Nest is non-smoking.