Dining room policy-I don't get it

[sail7seas]

Originally Posted by pmd98052 View Post

You should have claimed it was a religious hat.

 

Do they ask Jews to remove their yarmulke?

 

 

 

 

Talk about rude and disrespectful. :eek: Awful.

 

[nana541]

Talk about rude and disrespectful. :eek: Awful.

 

 

 

 

 

Ditto!!!

 

 

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[navybankerteacher]

To ask one person to meet a certain standard and yet not ask another to meet the same standard, at the same time, in the same setting, is in fact discrimination. The Maitre D' discriminately applied the policy to some guests, and not all.

 

If other diners wearing hats were allowed to keep them on, THAT would be discrimination. If a driver on an interstate were stopped for weaving between lanes, while other drivers going 5 miles over the speed limit wee let pass, would he be justified in claiming "discrimination"?

 

The standard applied to OP was, to all appearances, clearly not relevant concerning wearers of blue jeans.

[navybankerteacher]

Discrimination???? Really! Because he neglected to remove his hat and was asked to do so.....

 

Don't think that comes near to any definition of Discrimination!

 

Good Grief

 

"Discrimination" has gotten to be rather overused in protests of many sorts. Of course racial, ethnic or gender based discrimination is deplorable. But simple selection of preference - which is also "discrimination": see discriminating between right and wrong or between Two Buck Chuck and Chateau Lafitte, to get the point.

 

Opting to enforce a "no hats in the dining room" policy while letting blue jeans in is simply selecting an approach - and as long as that approach were evenly followed, no discrimination (certainly of a deplorable sort) existed.

[sail7seas]

Again, just for the sake of accuracy.......

 

HAL permits jeans in MDR for dinner on other than formal nights.

 

[navybankerteacher]

Again, just for the sake of accuracy.......

 

HAL permits jeans in MDR for dinner on other than formal nights.

 

 

Thank you for pointing this out - which makes it appear that in this case there was not even uneven application of a dress code - much less that dreaded "DISCRIMINATION".

[cbr663]

"Discrimination" has gotten to be rather overused in protests of many sorts. Of course racial, ethnic or gender based discrimination is deplorable. But simple selection of preference - which is also "discrimination": see discriminating between right and wrong or between Two Buck Chuck and Chateau Lafitte, to get the point.

 

Opting to enforce a "no hats in the dining room" policy while letting blue jeans in is simply selecting an approach - and as long as that approach were evenly followed, no discrimination (certainly of a deplorable sort) existed.

 

Just to clarify. HAL does not have a "no hats in the dining room" policy. HAL has a dress code that is completely silent on the wearing of hats anywhere on the ship. HAL's dress code does state that printed t-shirts are not permitted in the dining room. The Dining Room Manager's request that the OP remove his hat was not to enforce any HAL code. Allowing other passengers to dine while wearing t-shirts was a violation of HAL's Dress Code.

[Mary Ellen]

Also for the sake of accuracy, HAL's dress code only prohibits "printed T-shirts". The OP didn't mention what type of T-shirts. Sneakers also aren't against the dress code - or social etiquette.

 

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and sports shirts or sweater for men and skirt or trousers and sweater or blouse for women. Printed T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours.

 

Jeans, T-shirts, and sneakers are apparently a violation of his own dress code that he thought HAL should enforce.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Mary Ellen

[sail7seas]

Just to clarify. HAL does not have a "no hats in the dining room" policy. HAL has a dress code that is completely silent on the wearing of hats anywhere on the ship. HAL's dress code does state that printed t-shirts are not permitted in the dining room. The Dining Room Manager's request that the OP remove his hat was not to enforce any HAL code. Allowing other passengers to dine while wearing t-shirts was a violation of HAL's Dress Code.

 

They also do not have a policy that says no negligees in the MDR either. :rolleyes: Adult people presumably have a little sense of decency and decorum. Do responsible, reasonable adult people have to be treated like kindergarten children and be provided a long list of exactly what is appropriate? Maybe so...... Sigh !!! This is getting very close to a conversation of the absurd. I'm 'playing along' as it amuses me to see just how obtuse and crazy it will get.

 

[kjw869]

They also do not have a policy that says no negligees in the MDR either. :rolleyes: Adult people presumably have a little sense of decency and decorum. Do responsible, reasonable adult people have to be treated like kindergarten children and be provided a long list of exactly what is appropriate? Maybe so...... Sigh !!! This is getting very close to a conversation of the absurd. I'm 'playing along' as it amuses me to see just how obtuse and crazy it will get.

 

 

Nor socks and shoes for the gentlemen;)

 

The dining room person did the appropriate thing asking him to remove his cap, irregardless of what others were wearing. I'm from Southern California and two years ago I was in fine dining restaurants in Santa Monica, Malibu, Marina Del Rey, San Juan Capistrano, San Diego and my old home town of Newport Beach, and never saw one gentleman wearing a cap or hat. I certainly would have noticed how out place that was on those establisments. I do see men wearing them in McDonald's and other fast food outlets.

 

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[pmd98052]

Ditto!!!

 

 

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Obviously sarcasm does not always come across in print. When I refer to saying the OP should have said it was a religious hat I was being sarcastic.

 

Given recent SCOTUS decisions that seem to allow employers to claim religious exceptions to laws they don't like even when said employers have previously invested in companies that violate their religious beliefs. Given people are people and companies are people I expect people to now be able to claim random religious exemptions to all sorts of things.

 

I might start a religion that only allows the use of bikini's as a dress code and due to religious freedoms/exemptions it would be rude to discriminate against it right?

Edited October 3, 2014 by pmd98052

[navybankerteacher]

Just to clarify. HAL does not have a "no hats in the dining room" policy. HAL has a dress code that is completely silent on the wearing of hats anywhere on the ship. HAL's dress code does state that printed t-shirts are not permitted in the dining room. The Dining Room Manager's request that the OP remove his hat was not to enforce any HAL code. Allowing other passengers to dine while wearing t-shirts was a violation of HAL's Dress Code.

 

Correct - HAL does not specifically bar hats in the dining room - nor do they bar transparent blouses worn without underwear - or soiled operating room scrubs. However a reasonable dining room manager might be expected to enforce generally accepted cultural rules concerning clothing. And frankly, even in this enlightened age of legalized marijuana and female golfers at St. Andrews (as one neo-liberterian celebrated), it is generally accepted that only an uncouth lout will think it appropriate to wear a hat in a fairly formal environment like a cruise ship's main dining room.

[Retired 07]

I am the OP (whatever that stands for) and I agree that the MDR manager was correct to ask me to remove my hat. But, I am curious. If you see a nice old gentleman sitting into the MDR wearing a fine fedora, would any of you actually ask the mgr to ask him to remove it?

[sail7seas]

I am the OP (whatever that stands for) and I agree that the MDR manager was correct to ask me to remove my hat. But, I am curious. If you see a nice old gentleman sitting into the MDR wearing a fine fedora, would any of you actually ask the mgr to ask him to remove it?

 

Nice old gentleman?

Are you telling us you look like a mean young man? :confused:

If a hat is inappropriate it is inappropriate no matter upon which skull it rests. That nice old gentleman's hat would be no more suitable than the 'mean young man's' hat. What does age and affability have to do with the subject?

 

[Retired 07]

Correct - HAL does not specifically bar hats in the dining room - nor do they bar transparent blouses worn without underwear - or soiled operating room scrubs. However a reasonable dining room manager might be expected to enforce generally accepted cultural rules concerning clothing. And frankly, even in this enlightened age of legalized marijuana and female golfers at St. Andrews (as one neo-liberterian celebrated), it is generally accepted that only an uncouth lout will think it appropriate to wear a hat in a fairly formal environment like a cruise ship's main dining room.

 

An "uncouth lout"?? Really? You do realize that this is the 21st century, and not the 19th, right? Queen Victoria is dead. I think it's time for some of you people to come off your high horses, shed that pretentiousness, and learn to live and let live. If you are to the point that seeing a man in a hat will ruin your meal, or destroy the atmosphere of the entire dining room, you just need to loosen up! You're on vacation for crying out loud! Have fun! I really feel pity for those of you who would let a hat spoil your dining experience.

[Retired 07]

Nice old gentleman?

Are you telling us you look like a mean young man? :confused:

If a hat is inappropriate it is inappropriate no matter upon which skull it rests. That nice old gentleman's hat would be no more suitable than the 'mean young man's' hat. What does age and affability have to do with the subject?

 

 

OK, fine...I was just trying to be a little descriptive. Let's change it to "a man" Would you ask the mgr to have him remove it?

[cruz chic]

I am the OP (whatever that stands for)

 

It means the original poster.

[cruising cockroach]

An "uncouth lout"?? Really? You do realize that this is the 21st century, and not the 19th, right? Queen Victoria is dead. I think it's time for some of you people to come off your high horses, shed that pretentiousness, and learn to live and let live. If you are to the point that seeing a man in a hat will ruin your meal, or destroy the atmosphere of the entire dining room, you just need to loosen up! You're on vacation for crying out loud! Have fun! I really feel pity for those of you who would let a hat spoil your dining experience.

 

Maybe your standards of etiquette would indicate that you're more suited for Carnival Cruise Lines (or maybe eve Royal Caribbean) than Holland America, where it would appear the bulk of customers still adhere to some sense of etiquette.

 

Maybe the customers of Holland America will also change in time to your standards of etiquette but that time is not now.

[erin_cruisers]

Just be thankful my mom (may she rest in piece) was not in the dining room to see you with your hat. ;)

When we were young, we were taught never to wear a hat to the table.

If we forgot to take it off, without warning she would come up behind and give a hard swat to the head.

(Hard enough for the hat to go flying off).

That usually helped with the memory problem. :p

 

So, being asked to remove it was right in my mind, regardless of type of hat, or whatever other attire the person might be wearing - a tux, or shorts and t-shirt.

Edited October 3, 2014 by erin_cruisers

[USNUZULOOSE]

I always told my son, you remove your hat inside. That meant anywhere he went. Especially when sitting down to eat.

 

I don't tell other people not to do it. I only need to focus on my family for the rules.

[pmd98052]

Maybe your standards of etiquette would indicate that you're more suited for Carnival Cruise Lines (or maybe eve Royal Caribbean) than Holland America, where it would appear the bulk of customers still adhere to some sense of etiquette.

 

Nope - from what I've seen on Princess, HAL and NCL the standards of behavior have been equally appalling on all of them and age nor cruise line isn't the factor.

 

I've not been on Carnival, RCL or Celebrity yet so cannot comment if its even worse on those lines.

[nana51]

Asking someone to remove a hat is easy to do., asking them to leave and change clothes is more problematic.

[donaldsc]

Asking someone to remove a hat is easy to do., asking them to leave and change clothes is more problematic.

 

If they are not dressed appropriately for the venue as suggested in the cruise company site, they should be requested to leave the MDR and change into appropriate attire. I have seen it happen although not often enough.

 

DON

[sail7seas]

I once asked a very competent Hotel Manager (as was his rank at the time) why they are so reticent about enforcing dress code. His answer was very clear. He pointed out HAL is in the hospitality business and they are not in the business of fighting with their guests. He said those who are the worst offenders in ignoring the dress code or other rules are often belligerent and come looking for a fight. It is as though they are challenging the staff to make a comment to them.

 

A very belligerent person is often someone who would/could make a scene in a public space and it could be disturbing to other guests in the area. A confrontational person could even become physical. The crew/staff make reasoned choices and it is fine with me if those choices are left to those for whom it is a responsibility. Unless it is a matter of safety, people will wear what they choose and HAL will do about it what they wish.

 

Edited October 4, 2014 by sail7seas

[Cuizer2]

I recently returned from a terrific Alaska cruise on the Amsterdam. On, I believe, the 2nd or 3rd night, (not formal), we went to the dining room dressed very nicely. I had on slacks, a nice shirt and a very nice looking wool flat cap.(not a ball cap) After we ordered, the dining room manager came over and politely asked me to remove my hat. I was a little surprised at this, but, I did as he asked. Then I pointed out to him many people around us dressed in jeans, t-shirts, and sneakers, and asked him about that. His answer was that the dress code is very hard to enforce. HUH?? It wasn't that hard to enforce their hat code (about which I have never seen anything) I wasn't upset or anything, and I really don't care how other people dress in the dining room. The whole thing just seemed odd to me. Any comments or opinions?

 

Twice I have been passed by the California Highway Patrol (CHP) while I was going fifteen miles over the speed limit (as were all the cars around me). However, I have been pulled over when going slower (but there were less cars around me or I was going a little faster than they were). I also has a CHP car pull up behind me while I was going a little over the speed limit clock me, then go ahead of me and pull over the person who was going even faster than I was. If the t-shirt/jean crowd was not wearing hats, and you were the only one around who was, then the hat rule was much easier to enforce than the t-shirt and jeans rule.

 

Bottom line, speed limit laws are hard to enforce also.

 

The rules are set, clearly not everyone follows them. The more people not following a particular rule, the harder it is to enforce. The staff does their best to enforce the rules without creating a scene. If the t-shirt and jeans crowd was not wearing any hats, and you were the only one in the area that was, then the hat rule was much easier to enforce than the t-shirt and jeans rule.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Cuizer2