Cruising and Ebola

[sail7seas]

She had a fever of 99.5 and traveled anyhow. There is a law that basically says if you are HIV positive and participate in activities which could infect another without giving them warning of your status, you are guilty of a crime. It seems the same law should apply in this situation.

 

I wonder how it possibly could impact her nursing license? Anyone here know if such irresponsibility and ignoring of clear instructions can cause revocation of a health care license? In the meantime, she needs to recover before that will matter to her at all. Chances seem she should do well, I hope.

 

[calliopecruiser]

She had a fever of 99.5 and traveled anyhow. There is a law that basically says if you are HIV positive and participate in activities which could infect another without giving them warning of your status, you are guilty of a crime. It seems the same law should apply in this situation.

 

But she didn't know she was Ebola positive -- not the same situation at all. She should have not flown and gone to a hospital, but I wouldn't say she was guilty of a crime. Unwise and unhelpful (and as a health professional I believe she has a higher ethical standard), but not criminal.

[ducklite]

But she didn't know she was Ebola positive -- not the same situation at all. She should have not flown and gone to a hospital, but I wouldn't say she was guilty of a crime. Unwise and unhelpful (and as a health professional I believe she has a higher ethical standard), but not criminal.

 

 

She should at least be called before the medical board.

[cruisead]

I know it is my personal failing but could you please translate this? :D

 

I have no idea what you are saying. :eek: :o

Thank you.

 

 

I can't agree more. This silly texting shorthand is the bane of the English language.

 

Just wondering......will this virus ever be used as a terror weapon? Think about that for a minute.

Edited October 16, 2014 by cruisead

[calliopecruiser]

She should at least be called before the medical board.

 

I agree - I would hope the nursing board would have something to say about this and some disciplinary action would not be amiss. However, seeing some of the stupidly risky things nurses have done (with respect to health issues) when not on duty, I have my doubts.

[Floridiana]

Correction - its days not weeks -

And here's Express UK article on Ebola which explains more than the American media:

 

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/523012/Ebola-virus-explained

 

Would you like me to pull up more articles?

 

Thank you, not necessary. Only the UK article mentions 'days' without saying on solid surfaces.

[SPacificbound]

Does it change anyone's thinking that today it was announced a second nurse who cared for Ebola patient, Mr. Dunken, in Texas has been diagnosed with Ebola.

 

Apparently she had not been quarantined for the 21 day incubation period despite knowing her colleague, another nurse, was ill with Ebola and they followed the same protocol for the same patient's care.

 

No, it doesn't.

 

By the way the second nurse had a fever before she boarded the plane!

Again the CDC protocols a dollar short and a day late. I hope they do

a better job monitoring the 132 passengers and who they come into

contact with than what they have done so far.

She has now been sent to Emory in Atlanta.

[cruiserjt]

The news reported that she called the CDC twice before boarding the flight. Her temp of 99.4 did not trigger a protocol for the "expert" answering the call. She was not quarantined but now the CDC is saying that providers who are exposed should not travel. The news also reported that both of these nurses cared for other patients as well. She was given permission to fly. I have been a nurse for over 30 years and I know that I cannot rely on the government or corporation to protect me, I need to educate myself and be smart. Both of theses RNs were young and believed that the hospital knew what to do.. These protocols seem like overkill at first but once someone gets sick hindsight always tells us we should have even done more. I hope they heal so we can learn how to fight and kill this virus.. I am hoping that cruise lines restrict passengers from West Africa and those with any direct risk of exposure. Very scary stuff impacting the world - maybe not in my little bubble yet but we should be concerned.

[xxyyxx]

Very interesting and worrisome if this is the case.

 

I wonder though why none of the people living in the small apartment with Mr. Duncan who have been quarantined have become ill? They are coming close to the 21 outside incubation time window.

 

 

I will answer that. Maybe they did not have to clean up after him. We do not know how much he vomited at home. Also since people are not the normal carries of the virus but secondary hosts its possible the virus mutated some more when he was at the hospital. The doctor that discovered and worked on it and Malberg says its possible for some people to be immune to it. Maybe these people are lucky. Its just possible he got sick and vomited before the virus had built up in all his fluids.

 

But if these people at the end of the 21 day period have no fever they should not be released with out all kinds of tests to be sure the virus is not in there blood some of them could be carriers. But I fear just like with the second nurse that the CDC blamed for flying. When the facts are she called the CDC several times before the flight and was told to go. The top guy at CDC rushed to blame her before the facts were in. I fear they are so stupid that they will rely on temperature tests only. Which is very dumb since more than 12% of ebola patients never show a fever at all.

[SPacificbound]

I think your correct the nurses here asked for proper covering and I think

even as this morning they did not get. And Texas ( I live in Texas) has

a bunch of diseases coming across the border we do not screen the kids

at least that is what I have been told. We have a lot of sick border agents

and I assume that the new viruses that are killing a few children and

causing other problems came from our open border. I have been told

we even have captured a few ISIS people. The s..t will hit the fan

when an infected with EBOLA ISIS person will cross our border and

then travel to New York to do the deed you fear.

 

I don't know what to think. I read that many of our elites think there are

to many people on our planet. So maybe they have a vaccine and they

are just waiting for the masses to die. I really don't know but whatever

they are sure blotching the threat so far as the citizens are concerned.

 

If you have a bomb or tornado shelter now may be the time to get in it. :rolleyes:

[sail7seas]

The news reported that she called the CDC twice before boarding the flight. Her temp of 99.4 did not trigger a protocol for the "expert" answering the call. She was not quarantined but now the CDC is saying that providers who are exposed should not travel. The news also reported that both of these nurses cared for other patients as well. She was given permission to fly. I have been a nurse for over 30 years and I know that I cannot rely on the government or corporation to protect me, I need to educate myself and be smart. Both of theses RNs were young and believed that the hospital knew what to do.. These protocols seem like overkill at first but once someone gets sick hindsight always tells us we should have even done more. I hope they heal so we can learn how to fight and kill this virus.. I am hoping that cruise lines restrict passengers from West Africa and those with any direct risk of exposure. Very scary stuff impacting the world - maybe not in my little bubble yet but we should be concerned.

 

I will answer that. Maybe they did not have to clean up after him. We do not know how much he vomited at home. Also since people are not the normal carries of the virus but secondary hosts its possible the virus mutated some more when he was at the hospital. The doctor that discovered and worked on it and Malberg says its possible for some people to be immune to it. Maybe these people are lucky. Its just possible he got sick and vomited before the virus had built up in all his fluids.

 

But if these people at the end of the 21 day period have no fever they should not be released with out all kinds of tests to be sure the virus is not in there blood some of them could be carriers. But I fear just like with the second nurse that the CDC blamed for flying. When the facts are she called the CDC several times before the flight and was told to go. The top guy at CDC rushed to blame her before the facts were in. I fear they are so stupid that they will rely on temperature tests only. Which is very dumb since more than 12% of ebola patients never show a fever at all.

 

 

 

Thank you both.

Very informative posts.

 

[xxyyxx]

OK I found one of the things that references WHO the World Health Organization and facts about EBOLA.

 

I can't find some of the articles I read before since Google has a way of making them disappear sometimes if they are not some how are not appropriate.

 

""Yet the largest study of the current outbreak found that in nearly 13% of "confirmed and probable" cases in Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea and elsewhere, those infected did not have fevers.

 

The study, sponsored by the World Health Organization and published online late last month by the New England Journal of Medicine, analyzed data on 3,343 confirmed and 667 probable cases of Ebola.""

 

the link is http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-1012-ebola-fever-20141012-story.html#page=1

 

From the far left paper the la times so that progressive readers can follow it.

The fact is EBOLA doesn't always cause fevers. I know a lot of you want to see it in the NYT before it gets through you filters. The fact is if the clowns in the CDC only use fevers they will fail. And if hospitals take fever as needed for isolation. This country like the countries in Africa will see a large number of health care workers come down with it.

 

I am not worried about catching it on a ship I am worried about the economies failing and not getting able to go on the ship if the cruise

companies go broke. I think the CDC and government has to do more

to stop the spread.

[sail7seas]

Has anyone heard from the NIH since this all started? I just realized I not heard any comments from them.

 

How about Surgeon General?

 

Edited October 16, 2014 by sail7seas

[MonDreamr1]

Has anyone heard from the NIH since this all started? I just realized I not heard any comments from them.

 

How about Surgeon General?

 

Fauci has been all over the news for NIH. (Director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases)

 

Lushniak as acting SG, not so much if at all. I don't recall seeing him on anything.

[sail7seas]

National Institute of Health Director?

I haven't heard Fauci so thanks.

 

Edited October 16, 2014 by sail7seas

[MonDreamr1]

National Institute of Health Director?

I haven't heard Fauci so thanks.

 

 

you're welcome

 

He isn't the total NIH director, but is the director of the institute that covers infectious diseases, which is the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease.

 

Francis Collins is the overall director -- he has been on some, but I haven't seen him as much as Fauci talking about the actual outbreak. He has been on more about science budget cuts and not being farther along in having a vaccine for Ebola due to research budget cuts. He is leaving the infectious disease part to Fauci and the CDC people -- which is pretty normal for everything. The main director deals with politics and the institute directors deal with things related to their fields.

 

NIH is much more a research organization than a health services/outbreak containment center - that is for the CDC. They do have some things they do in the clinical center, but that tends to be research based clinical trials. The research does set guidelines for things. CDC are the ones that are supposed to be managing the disease aspect.

Edited October 16, 2014 by MonDreamr1

[momofmeg]

No, it doesn't.

 

 

She has now been sent to Emory in Atlanta.

 

Emory handled the Ebola ill doctor case much better-no one got sick, so hopefully they will do this again. It still gets in my crawl a bit that such an irresponsible person is flown here for better care when she did not care if she spread the disease to all those airplane PAX . She could possibly endanger people I know or even me for that matter if one of her Emory healthcare workers are as clueless as she was.

[paul929207]

The US does not currently have a Surgeon General. President Obama appointed someone who the NRA opposes, so the Senate Republicans have blocked a vote on the nomination.

[SuiteTraveler]

I read this morning that a plan they are considering is to put everyone who may have possibly been exposed on the TSA's NO FLY list for a limited amount of time until we can be sure they don't have Ebola. Apparently the CDC guidelines allow possible Ebola patients to travel by private car, private plane but no public transport. There are also two specific hospitals in the US that are actually prepared to handle Ebola cases and these are Emory in Atlanta and Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha. Some experts are suggesting in hindsight, these are the hospitals where the first Dallas Ebola patient should have been transferred to begin with. Apparently, there are only 4 hospitals in the US that are prepared to treat such a highly infectious disease.

 

As to the nurse, apparently, she asked the CDC's permission to travel despite a slightly elevated temperature and, incredibly, they gave her the go-ahead because her temperature was not over 100.4 - it was only 99F. This does not, IMO, mitigate her personal responsibility to do what is right and make her own decision NOT to potentially expose anyone to a possibly fatal virus. So now all those passengers on that Frontier Airlines plane (not just her flight, but subsequent flights as well) and her family and friends and all other contacts have to be monitored. Two schools in Cleveland have been closed to be disinfected because a staffer flew on the same plane as the nurse with Ebola - although it was a different flight. I think this is actually a very good decision on the part of the school district because even if the chances of the staffer getting Ebola are extremely low, it shows the school district cared enough to do everything possible not to take any chances with their staff and students. The CDC could LEARN a lot from this example.

 

I would hope anyone on the TSA NO FLY list would also not be allowed to cruise, board trains or any other type of public transportation. My expectation is that is where this is all going.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html

[sail7seas]

Emory handled the Ebola ill doctor case much better-no one got sick, so hopefully they will do this again. It still gets in my crawl a bit that such an irresponsible person is flown here for better care when she did not care if she spread the disease to all those airplane PAX . She could possibly endanger people I know or even me for that matter if one of her Emory healthcare workers are as clueless as she was.

 

 

She wasn't as irresponsible as originally indicated.

I have now heard multiple reports she called CDC TWO times, reported she had a fever of 99.4 and asked if it was safe for her to fly. Both times she was granted permission as her fever was slightly lower than the temperature they have been regarding as sufficiently high to require attention. :eek:

 

As a nurse, she probably should be held to a higher standard than those of us without formal medical education but she didn't make that decision without presumably competent approval. :rolleyes:

 

Without question, it would be very much better had she not been on commercial transportation possibly exposing hundreds of people in airports and airplanes.

 

If the report I heard is correct, she was showing reportable symptoms within 12 hours of arriving back in Dallas.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2014 by sail7seas

[MonDreamr1]

The US does not currently have a Surgeon General. President Obama appointed someone who the NRA opposes, so the Senate Republicans have blocked a vote on the nomination.

 

 

We do have an acting one

 

 

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[MonDreamr1]

National Institute of Health Director?

 

I haven't heard Fauci so thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

If you get CNN, congress has pulled CDC, NIH, and DHHS into committee to get some answers. As it is committee they'll just yap. If you want to put names and faces together.

 

 

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[MonDreamr1]

And FDA. For status of vaccine trials.

 

 

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[Redtravel]

If you are worried,stay home. Staying home scared is no way to live. The news media is EBOLA NONSTOP 24/7. Stop watching CNN. Pack and enjoy your vacation. Packing today for my next vacation. I am not staying home.

[xxyyxx]

Speaking of the FDA the hospital in Texas has a machine that can detect Ebola in less than one hour. The machine at the hospital for 2 years. It looks good on paper yet the DAMN FDA would not allow it use to detect for Ebola.

 

They need special approve yet the machine is so good that the military can use it. I would bet the CDC lets the quarantine go this weekend though some real experts on Ebola say 12% of sick don't show symptoms in 21 days. One would hope the CDC allows these people to have there blood at least checked before they are free. But considering the intelligence of the current leaders of the CDC I doubt they care one bit. They really don't seem to care.

 

http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2014/10/dallas-hospital-had-ebola-screening-machine-military-using-africa/96713/?oref=d-river

 

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/10/16/drexel-study-claims-21-day-quarantine-for-those-exposed-to-ebola-might-not-be-long-enough/