Out of control dog on the Amsterdam

[serendipity1499]

Wow. Feeling a bit attacked here or on trial.

Nowhere did I say I was on that cruise. I did say IF I saw those things it would bother me. Never did I claim to be a witness. Apologies if what I wrote was misleading and you misunderstood what I was saying. Just stating an opinion, my opinion only. I guess I should have added IMO, but I didn't know I was going to be on trial.

 

I apologize if you think I'm putting you on trial..

 

Since you did not say this was your opinion only, I assumed that you saw these problems.. That is the problem, no where on this thread has anyone claimed to witness these things.. The original poster quoted a post on Facebook which is completely against CC rules & everyone seemed to pick up on it & assumed these statements were fact, including me...My big mistake not re-reading the thread before I posted..

 

When Jeff posted who is actually on the cruise I re-read the entire thread & realized no one on CC have witnessed the barking & defecating..

 

I'm just as much to blame as anyone else here..:o:o..

[Cruising-along]

Thank you, Betty. :):)

[Lizzie68]

Boy this is turning into a federal case! Move on for heaven's sakes and stop with this he said she said he saw she saw stuff.

[FredT]

Ive been reading this thread with the same fascination as someone looking at a car wreck... What I am mostly taking away from this is a sadness that so many people would spend their precious "cruise" time talking about, watching, and obsessing about ONE sad, pathetic passenger.

 

I mean come on guys, every passenger on that ship has spent HOW many thousands of dollars in order to have a GREAT time? I have never been on a cruise where SOMEONE was not a complete ass, did not make a scene, or did not have some issue. As well, in those 26 cruises, I have never had ONE cruise that went absolutely perfectly. There have been hurricanes, crew strikes, missed ports, rough seas, Noro viruses, and even an attempted coup d'état at one port. Yet none of those things could ruin our cruise because we did not let them!

 

Now, back to my rocker and dreaming about our next cruise (Australia, NZ) ;)

[Tarpeian Rock]

I think a lot of the "views" and expressed concerns stem from worries that between do-it-yourself service animal "certification" kits available on the Net, plus how Those In Charge seem stymied when confronted by an ADA situation, unable to identify the line between what the law requires of the public accommodation and what the law expects the animal's owner to do (that ol' lawsuit fear) -- well, that similar situations will mushroom in our individualistic all-about-me society, and that one's own cruise experience may be in the crosshairs of a future such incident. None of these comments are aimed at "real" service animals who have gone through rigorous training and for whom I have immense respect. The problems arise when "Fluffy" (or "Porky" for that matter) is hauled along for supposed "emotional support."

[serendipity1499]

I think a lot of the "views" and expressed concerns stem from worries that between do-it-yourself service animal "certification" kits available on the Net, plus how Those In Charge seem stymied when confronted by an ADA situation, unable to identify the line between what the law requires of the public accommodation and what the law expects the animal's owner to do (that ol' lawsuit fear) -- well, that similar situations will mushroom in our individualistic all-about-me society, and that one's own cruise experience may be in the crosshairs of a future such incident. None of these comments are aimed at "real" service animals who have gone through rigorous training and for whom I have immense respect. The problems arise when "Fluffy" (or "Porky" for that matter) is hauled along for supposed "emotional support."

 

You've got the picture.. Right ON! :) These kits have been on the Internet for years, & until the ADA Law is changed & the loopholes plugged, there will be those who have no scruples & try to beat the system..

 

That's also true in Therapy Dogs too...We have heard about dishonest people who only have Observed & Tested Therapy Dogs, who will think nothing about putting a vest on their dog & trying to pass it up as a Service Dog.. Most people will accept this but it makes me angry! :mad: If I personally observe this conduct I would call them out & report them..

 

Also know of Certified Service Dogs & Puppy Raisers who raise Seeing Eye Pups for South Eastern Guide Dogs.. They spend two years working with the Pup & then have to give them up to a Blind person who needs the Service Dog..The Puppy Raisers are true selfless people.. :) The Blind Person normally works for a year with the Pup until he/she is able to keep it ..

 

Edited December 6, 2014 by serendipity1499

[Cruising-along]

I think a lot of the "views" and expressed concerns stem from worries that between do-it-yourself service animal "certification" kits available on the Net, plus how Those In Charge seem stymied when confronted by an ADA situation, unable to identify the line between what the law requires of the public accommodation and what the law expects the animal's owner to do (that ol' lawsuit fear) -- well, that similar situations will mushroom in our individualistic all-about-me society, and that one's own cruise experience may be in the crosshairs of a future such incident. None of these comments are aimed at "real" service animals who have gone through rigorous training and for whom I have immense respect. The problems arise when "Fluffy" (or "Porky" for that matter) is hauled along for supposed "emotional support."

 

So true. As someone else said, I don't think any of us would ever find fault with a real service dog on a cruise. I love seeing them!!

 

DH is retired but has a part-time job at the Seahawks Stadium in Seattle. He gets pretty disgusted with the people who try to pass off their pets as service dogs. But their hands are tired because of the laws.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

I think a lot of the "views" and expressed concerns stem from worries that between do-it-yourself service animal "certification" kits available on the Net, plus how Those In Charge seem stymied when confronted by an ADA situation, unable to identify the line between what the law requires of the public accommodation and what the law expects the animal's owner to do (that ol' lawsuit fear) -- well, that similar situations will mushroom in our individualistic all-about-me society, and that one's own cruise experience may be in the crosshairs of a future such incident. None of these comments are aimed at "real" service animals who have gone through rigorous training and for whom I have immense respect. The problems arise when "Fluffy" (or "Porky" for that matter) is hauled along for supposed "emotional support."

 

Exactly. In addition, I am sure there are many passengers annoyed by the fact that they played by the rules and left their beloved pets at home. I've spent hundreds, perhaps thousands, of dollars boarding my pets over the years while I've traveled. I would have much rather brought a dog along with me at times, but I played by the rules.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Ryndam2002

[suz1607]

Exactly. In addition, I am sure there are many passengers annoyed by the fact that they played by the rules and left their beloved pets at home. I've spent hundreds, perhaps thousands, of dollars boarding my pets over the years while I've traveled. I would have much rather brought a dog along with me at times, but I played by the rules.

 

I too think this may be the case. We just boarded our "4-legged son" while we were on a HAL cruise for the last few weeks. It is very costly! He would have enjoyed being with us and we would have enjoyed having him. I know for a fact that the "papers" are easy to get as I have a neighbor who has done so. The owner seems to have to also have a "feeling of entitlement" [ie. front row on bus, etc.] which can cause other passengers to resent her. Put all this together and you have a situation like this waiting to happen! My only thought is that HAL should perhaps monitor more closely.

[USN59-79]

I too think this may be the case. We just boarded our "4-legged son" while we were on a HAL cruise for the last few weeks. It is very costly! He would have enjoyed being with us and we would have enjoyed having him. I know for a fact that the "papers" are easy to get as I have a neighbor who has done so. The owner seems to have to also have a "feeling of entitlement" [ie. front row on bus, etc.] which can cause other passengers to resent her. Put all this together and you have a situation like this waiting to happen! My only thought is that HAL should perhaps monitor more closely.

 

2 thoughts: I find it interesting how this thread was becoming "Out of control" until Jeff spoke up and added some common sense to it. Also, with the current ADA laws, exactly what could the Hotel Manager or the Guest Relations Manager done differently? You can say "monitor more closely", but what does that mean?

[Tarpeian Rock]

2 thoughts: I find it interesting how this thread was becoming "Out of control" until Jeff spoke up and added some common sense to it. Also, with the current ADA laws, exactly what could the Hotel Manager or the Guest Relations Manager done differently? You can say "monitor more closely", but what does that mean?

 

 

Well, making the animal's owner pick up their own poop, for starters. Said more elegantly, better knowledge of, and enforcement of, the line between an owner's rights under ADA, and their responsibilities. HAL will be sorry it hasn't done its homework the day a pax arrives with their miniature horse "companion animal" - currently allowable under the ADA.

[BeagleOne]

2 thoughts: I find it interesting how this thread was becoming "Out of control" until Jeff spoke up and added some common sense to it. Also, with the current ADA laws, exactly what could the Hotel Manager or the Guest Relations Manager done differently? You can say "monitor more closely", but what does that mean?

 

Well, for starters, enforce their sanitary protocols better. Yeah, they have to allow the "service dog" on board, but they could enforce her having to clean up after the dog, not leaving the dog in the stateroom for hours on end while the poor thing barks incessantly, not having the dog on her lap at dinner, etc.

 

Businesses are allowed to ask customers with misbehaving service dogs to leave, e.g. for things like eliminating in inappropriate places, barking excessively, etc. Kind of tough to do on a ship calling at far-flung ports, but her right to have her "service dog" with her does NOT include some of the behavior described on this thread.

[Mary Ellen]

Don't think that is going to happen.

A while back the captain, hotel director, culinary manager, and cruise director had general Q&A sessions. I was at the one for 5 stars. When asked about the dog they said they had thought about what to say if asked and they decided not to say anything. Next question, they said.

I heard a rumor that the CC Meet & Great leader went to Amsterdam's management purportedly on behalf of our rather large group and was looking to meet with them but the last I'd heard nothing had been scheduled.

I can't imagine the bolded part of the above quote (from someone on the ship) would have happened if there wasn't a problem. There would have been no reason for the Captain et al to think about what to say about the situation if the passenger in question (and her dog) were behaving properly.

[durangoscots]

Well, making the animal's owner pick up their own poop, for starters. Said more elegantly, better knowledge of, and enforcement of, the line between an owner's rights under ADA, and their responsibilities. HAL will be sorry it hasn't done its homework the day a pax arrives with their miniature horse "companion animal" - currently allowable under the ADA.

 

Actually, I read somewhere that cruise lines have already had an accomodation with ADA and that the only service animals allowed are dogs. The rationale was that the ships are not equipped to handle the other animals. I think, but I am not sure, this came up because of a cat as service animal and the fact that you can not train a kitty to go on command even though they are using the litter box . I am sure someone else remembers this discussion better than I do.

 

By the way, a few years ago I ran into a woman who had a seizure alert marmoset .... and believe me that little critter was not house broke.

 

Susan

[krazy4kruisin]

Help, Someone please make this thread go away!:p

Edited December 7, 2014 by krazy4kruisin

[donaldsc]

I think that this out-of-control dog has resulted in an out-of-control thread.

 

DON

[Ocean Dancer]

Help, Someone please make this thread go away!:p

 

Then don't read it.

 

Actually the passengers are debarking tomorrow and hopefully will shed some first hand light on this subject.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Then don't read it.

 

Actually the passengers are debarking tomorrow and hopefully will shed some first hand light on this subject.

 

I live only about a 1/2 hour drive from the San Diego port. I am almost tempted to swing by and try to get a look at this woman as she disembarks, but it gets so crowded there that I'd probably miss her.

[Ocean Dancer]

I live only about a 1/2 hour drive from the San Diego port. I am almost tempted to swing by and try to get a look at this woman as she disembarks, but it gets so crowded there that I'd probably miss her.

 

We can "assume" that she will be the first group off:rolleyes:

[Linda&Vern]

Does anyone know what cabin the "dog" is currently occupying? We are boarding Monday!

[TiogaCruiser]

Does anyone know what cabin the "dog" is currently occupying? We are boarding Monday!

 

With all that's been said it could possibly be "our" cabin.

[Ocean Dancer]

L & V and TG who just posted above...........please come back and tell us what the crew is saying about this situation. They are the ones who will know much more than many of the pax. I'm sure all of us following this thread wish you a wonderful cruise............stress free...........relaxing........and the vacation you paid for and deserve.:) Have a great time, and we hope to hear back from you later.

[serendipity1499]

Well, for starters, enforce their sanitary protocols better. Yeah, they have to allow the "service dog" on board, but they could enforce her having to clean up after the dog, not leaving the dog in the stateroom for hours on end while the poor thing barks incessantly, not having the dog on her lap at dinner, etc.

 

Businesses are allowed to ask customers with misbehaving service dogs to leave, e.g. for things like eliminating in inappropriate places, barking excessively, etc. Kind of tough to do on a ship calling at far-flung ports, but her right to have her "service dog" with her does NOT include some of the behavior described on this thread.

 

 

Well, making the animal's owner pick up their own poop, for starters. Said more elegantly, better knowledge of, and enforcement of, the line between an owner's rights under ADA, and their responsibilities. HAL will be sorry it hasn't done its homework the day a pax arrives with their miniature horse "companion animal" - currently allowable under the ADA.

 

Please advise how a Blind Person would be able to clean up after their Service Dog? HAL provides an area for the Service dog to defecate & as far as I know the Crew would do the Clean up..I've just e-mailed my Friends who raise Service Dogs from Puppy's to ask about this.. Will post on this thread when I get an answer.. Better yet, Perhaps they will join CC & post for themselves, since they are currently raising these puppy's ..

 

The ADA only recognizes DOGS as Service Animals & HAL only takes Service Animals on board..Don't worry they do not take companion Animals, so a horse would never be boarded..

 

Suggest you read Post 20..Ham OP quotes the ADA rules..

Edited December 8, 2014 by serendipity1499

[Ocean Dancer]

serendipity1499, in this case, I believe I am correct to say that the owner is not blind...........being a moot point.

 

The dog was seen pooping outside the elevator, as someone said, and did not tell the crew but walked away. If true in this case, she should have picked it up as she appeared able to do so. She was wheeling the dog around in a stroller and acted superior to everyone. You or I would have picked it up, disability or not. If this dog was a service dog at one time, it has been ruined. Will your friend know if service dogs have to be requalified every year or so?

[MommaBear55]

Please advise how a Blind Person would be able to clean up after their Service Dog? HAL provides an area for the Service dog to defecate & as far as I know the Crew would do the Clean up..I've just e-mailed my Friends who raise Service Dogs from Puppy's to ask about this.. Will post on this thread when I get an answer.. Better yet, Perhaps they will join CC & post for themselves, since they are currently raising these puppy's ..

 

The ADA only recognizes DOGS as Service Animals & HAL only takes Service Animals on board..Don't worry they do not take companion Animals, so a horse would never be boarded..

 

Suggest you read Post 20..Ham OP quotes the ADA rules..

 

Part of the definition of a true service animal is that they are 100% housebroken and can actually hold it until they are given the command to go. Obviously if they are ill that may be a different story.