Cruises to Cuba

[marco]

Perhaps a lot of US citizens don't realize that it's pretty much ONLY the US that has not permitted free travel to Cuba. Citizens from just about every other country have been going on holiday to Cuba for years and many non-US based cruise lines call regularly. I think there is something on the books along the lines of "if a ship calls at a port in Cuba, it can't call at any US port (like the Virgin Islands or PR) for 6 mos. These ships usually sail out of Barbados or Jamaica. Lines like Louis, Fred.Olsen and Thompson. Granted, the infrastructure is not what most Americans might expect, but the architecture, culture, and history make it high on my bucket list. I'd like to go before there is a McDonalds, Kentucky Fried, Dunkin Donuts or Diamonds International on every corner. And actually, the country is large enough that I would rather take a land tour rather then only an 8hr call in Havana. There probably will be one day excursion tours from Miami, too. Most foreign hotel chains already have quite nice properties on the island and I don't think it will be all that long before there are Hiltons, Hyatts and the like. Right now, for US citizens a land trip to Cuba has to qualify as a humanitarian or educational trip and they are a bit pricy. That will change!..........Time share, anyone?

[alexspepa]

I agree with you, I rate freedom as perhaps the most important human right.

I didn't "defend" Cuba because of its healthcare and education, I simply used them as examples of the pros as well as the cons, to get an accurate balanced & non-partisan viewpoint - something which a number of folk on this thread seem incapable of doing. The world ain't as black and white as you or they seem to think, nor as white and black as those subjected to communist propaganda seem to think.

 

Lets take cronyism, or more accurately nepotism, as an example.

I think we can agree that Castro's engineering his brother to be vice-President, and consequently to take over the reins, is an example of nepotism.

But of course no American president would ever appoint his brother to Attorney-General, would he.

Nor would there be any other family dynasties in US politics.

No Indian Prime Minister's wife would succeed him as Prime Minister.

And there was no Marcos dynasty in the Philippine government.

Or 5 members of the Churchill family in the UK parliament.

Here are some examples of cronyism, courtesy of Wiki, but I'd better forewarn you, they're not all communists ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism

 

Nepotism & cronyism are an unacceptable part of life. But they're not unique to lefties.

 

Please don't blindly suggest that education & healthcare aren't excellent in Cuba, because every resource will confirm that they are.

But then education ought to, because according to UNESCO 10% of its budget is spent on education, compared to 2% in the US & 4% in the UK.

And the ratio of doctors to population increased five-fold from the end of Batista's government - according to the World Bank only the US & the UK have a higher ratio. Infant mortality is lower than in the US, and Cuba's healthcare is free to all. Is that such a bad record?

 

Do those things make Cuba a better place to live than the US or UK?

Not for me they don't, but life for Cubans ain't all doom & gloom.

As I'm sure my impending cruise will confirm.

 

JB :)

 

one of the greatest posts/responses ever on this site...well played sir.

[luddite]

Well, there were at least half-a-dozen attempts ;)

But that didn't answer my question.

If the US embargo wasn't imposed because of Castro's seizure of foreign assets in Cuba as I stated, why was it imposed?

 

JB :)

 

If someone tries five times to have YOU killed, what do you think your response might be?

[John Bull]

If someone tries five times to have YOU killed, what do you think your response might be?

 

We're going way off-topic here, Luddite, but your response doesn't make sense. :confused:

The assassination attempts were on the life of Castro, but the embargo was implemented by the USA.

And the embargo started in 1960 whereas the assassination attempts (it seems my "half a dozen" was out by a mere 630 or thereabouts :D) continued for years after.

So the embargo can hardly be in response to the assassination attempts. :confused:

 

JB :)

[sail7seas]

We're going way off-topic here, Luddite, but your response doesn't make sense. :confused:

The assassination attempts were on the life of Castro, but the embargo was implemented by the USA.

And the embargo started in 1960 whereas the assassination attempts (it seems my "half a dozen" was out by a mere 630 or thereabouts :D) continued for years after.

So the embargo can hardly be in response to the assassination attempts. :confused:

 

JB :)

 

Thank you, John Bull.

I read that twice and couldn't figure out what the response was supposed to mean. Castro didn't impose the embargo....... the U.S. did.

 

And for the poster who said most Americans don't know it is only U.S. which bans its citizens to travel to Cuba but for specific exemptions, I think most educated people know this.

 

[American Bear]

Why we think Cuba will open for American tourists sooner then later!:)

1) OIL, Cuba has huge oil deposits in their waters! Oil companies will promise low gas prices to get Americans to sign on!

2) Corporate greed! Imagine the hotel/casino/resorts that would be built!

3) Cruises/Air travel vacationers! Money made here and there!

4) Cubans here in America, many do have the money to live a comfortable life style in Cuba!

5) The Batista's who left Cuba 50 years ago are dying off, and each generation has less hatred!

 

All the talk about why an embargo '60 years ago', really? I can't remember yesterdays lunch!-))

Edited December 18, 2014 by American Bear

[sliderturk99]

I feel it would be about 5 to 10 years before there will be any movement in regard to "open" tourism in Cuba.

 

Do I think this is a step in the right direction? Absolutely.

Would i travel to Cuba one day? Yes

 

 

BTW what does this now mean for Bacardi, considering they left after the Coup.

To my knowledge Cuba does not consider Bacardi to be "Cuban"

 

Yes, I cannot wait to buy my first bottle of Havana Club Rum.

[slidergirl]

Americans are now permitted to bring Cuban cigars and Cuban rum into U.S. with maximum value of $100.

 

I wonder if this will extend to those little cross-border trips to Canada??? I'd love to bring back some Havana Club when I visit Calgary!!! I already "smuggle" back some Cuban coffee beans - my very nice coffee place up there puts on a "local blend" coffee label on the bag ;)

[csmjfmbe]

I agree with you, I rate freedom as perhaps the most important human right.

I didn't "defend" Cuba because of its healthcare and education, I simply used them as examples of the pros as well as the cons, to get an accurate balanced & non-partisan viewpoint - something which a number of folk on this thread seem incapable of doing. The world ain't as black and white as you or they seem to think, nor as white and black as those subjected to communist propaganda seem to think.

 

Lets take cronyism, or more accurately nepotism, as an example.

I think we can agree that Castro's engineering his brother to be vice-President, and consequently to take over the reins, is an example of nepotism.

But of course no American president would ever appoint his brother to Attorney-General, would he.

Nor would there be any other family dynasties in US politics.

No Indian Prime Minister's wife would succeed him as Prime Minister.

And there was no Marcos dynasty in the Philippine government.

Or 5 members of the Churchill family in the UK parliament.

Here are some examples of cronyism, courtesy of Wiki, but I'd better forewarn you, they're not all communists ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism

 

Nepotism & cronyism are an unacceptable part of life. But they're not unique to lefties.

 

Please don't blindly suggest that education & healthcare aren't excellent in Cuba, because every resource will confirm that they are.

But then education ought to, because according to UNESCO 10% of its budget is spent on education, compared to 2% in the US & 4% in the UK.

And the ratio of doctors to population increased five-fold from the end of Batista's government - according to the World Bank only the US & the UK have a higher ratio. Infant mortality is lower than in the US, and Cuba's healthcare is free to all. Is that such a bad record?

 

Do those things make Cuba a better place to live than the US or UK?

Not for me they don't, but life for Cubans ain't all doom & gloom.

As I'm sure my impending cruise will confirm.

 

JB :)[/quote

 

Dear JB

Superb post, I think we may bump into you in January on the Dream.

If the diplomatic differences can be resolved, it will benefit both Cuba and the USA. On a very selfish note, we are glad to be going before it is opened up ( so to speak ).

All the best

 

Mike

[motleyfan]

I agree with you, I rate freedom as perhaps the most important human right.

I didn't "defend" Cuba because of its healthcare and education, I simply used them as examples of the pros as well as the cons, to get an accurate balanced & non-partisan viewpoint - something which a number of folk on this thread seem incapable of doing. The world ain't as black and white as you or they seem to think, nor as white and black as those subjected to communist propaganda seem to think.

 

Lets take cronyism, or more accurately nepotism, as an example.

I think we can agree that Castro's engineering his brother to be vice-President, and consequently to take over the reins, is an example of nepotism.

But of course no American president would ever appoint his brother to Attorney-General, would he.

Nor would there be any other family dynasties in US politics.

No Indian Prime Minister's wife would succeed him as Prime Minister.

And there was no Marcos dynasty in the Philippine government.

Or 5 members of the Churchill family in the UK parliament.

Here are some examples of cronyism, courtesy of Wiki, but I'd better forewarn you, they're not all communists ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism

 

Nepotism & cronyism are an unacceptable part of life. But they're not unique to lefties.

 

Please don't blindly suggest that education & healthcare aren't excellent in Cuba, because every resource will confirm that they are.

But then education ought to, because according to UNESCO 10% of its budget is spent on education, compared to 2% in the US & 4% in the UK.

And the ratio of doctors to population increased five-fold from the end of Batista's government - according to the World Bank only the US & the UK have a higher ratio. Infant mortality is lower than in the US, and Cuba's healthcare is free to all. Is that such a bad record?

 

Do those things make Cuba a better place to live than the US or UK?

Not for me they don't, but life for Cubans ain't all doom & gloom.

As I'm sure my impending cruise will confirm.

 

JB :)[/quote

 

Dear JB

Superb post, I think we may bump into you in January on the Dream.

If the diplomatic differences can be resolved, it will benefit both Cuba and the USA. On a very selfish note, we are glad to be going before it is opened up ( so to speak ).

All the best

 

Mike

 

Going to Havana would be awesome

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Forums mobile app

[chrispb]

Please don't blindly suggest that education & healthcare aren't excellent in Cuba, because every resource will confirm that they are.

 

 

JB :)

 

Excellent post and glad to see you confirmed what we've known for years. Cuba was always touted as the "best" place" to be ill when travelling.

[John Bull]

Have a great time, Cuba is beautiful and still not overrun with tourists. At the moment. :)

 

 

Dear JB

Superb post, I think we may bump into you in January on the Dream.

On a very selfish note, we are glad to be going before it is opened up ( so to speak ).

All the best

 

Mike

 

Hi, Mike.

Cashew's post got me thinking exactly the same thing.

We all want to visit unspoilt areas but of course by doing so we're all playing our part in spoiling them. Catch 22.

(Yes, Cashew, can't promise a full cruise review, but certainly our experiences in Havana)

 

We're aboard 6th Jan for two weeks. Cabin 5120 if you want to share a beer or two.

 

RollCall (of sorts) at

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2006448

 

JB :)

[sail7seas]

I wonder if this will extend to those little cross-border trips to Canada??? I'd love to bring back some Havana Club when I visit Calgary!!! I already "smuggle" back some Cuban coffee beans - my very nice coffee place up there puts on a "local blend" coffee label on the bag ;)

 

I would expect it will not be legal for Americans to bring Cuban products into this country from anywhere. If you buy Cuban cigars in Canada, you should be able to bring them home.

 

Verify Customs Rules as to how much/how often and how long you have to be out of the country to get the duty free deduction.

 

[Cashew14]

Hi, Mike.

Cashew's post got me thinking exactly the same thing.

We all want to visit unspoilt areas but of course by doing so we're all playing our part in spoiling them. Catch 22.

(Yes, Cashew, can't promise a full cruise review, but certainly our experiences in Havana)

 

We're aboard 6th Jan for two weeks. Cabin 5120 if you want to share a beer or two.

 

RollCall (of sorts) at

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2006448

 

JB :)

 

Thank you very much, John. :)

 

We are flying out to Gran Canaria on the 5th of January for 4 weeks to escape the winter partially and to play a lot of golf. But I will toast to you across the Atlantic. And who knows, maybe one day we will be able to have a beer or two. In Havana ;)

[motleyfan]

Thank you very much, John. :)

 

We are flying out to Gran Canaria on the 5th of January for 4 weeks to escape the winter partially and to play a lot of golf. But I will toast to you across the Atlantic. And who knows, maybe one day we will be able to have a beer or two. In Havana ;)

 

JB I'm definitely jealous lol

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Forums mobile app

[donaldsc]

It looks like there will be changes in the Cuba travel ban. What do you think? Will there be cruises to Cuba soon? This could be a big boost to US based cruise lines. Short trips mean lower fuel costs. The island is huge with beaches, mountains, diving and snorkeling, and lots to do.

 

There have always been cruises to Cuba and there will continue to be cruises to Cuba - just not from the US and on ships that visit the US. Try typing "cruises to Cuba" into Google. Lots and lots of hits.

 

It is interesting that most Americans have the attitude that if the cruise company is not one of the cruises under the umbrella of the big two and if it does not leave from a US port, it does not exist. A very parochial attitude.

 

We recently did a Canadian cruise and were talking to one of our guides about Cuba. She said that she has been there 4 times and it was a wonderful place to visit. We are doing a RoadScholar trip to Cuba in February and I guess that we will find out.

 

DON

Edited December 18, 2014 by donaldsc

[luddite]

We're going way off-topic here, Luddite, but your response doesn't make sense. :confused:

The assassination attempts were on the life of Castro, but the embargo was implemented by the USA.

And the embargo started in 1960 whereas the assassination attempts (it seems my "half a dozen" was out by a mere 630 or thereabouts :D) continued for years after.

So the embargo can hardly be in response to the assassination attempts. :confused:

 

JB :)

 

The embargo stays because the US can hold a grudge.

We don't give a fat frog's keister about other country's politics, religion, drug dealings, threats to our sovereignty.....it's a long list.

What could the people who Kennedy was trying to kill possibly have done to engender such a grudge by us? Hint: JFK cannot tell us....because he is dead.

[luddite]

I feel it would be about 5 to 10 years before there will be any movement in regard to "open" tourism in Cuba.

 

Do I think this is a step in the right direction? Absolutely.

Would i travel to Cuba one day? Yes

 

 

BTW what does this now mean for Bacardi, considering they left after the Coup.

To my knowledge Cuba does not consider Bacardi to be "Cuban"

 

Yes, I cannot wait to buy my first bottle of Havana Club Rum.

 

Probably about a week after the brothers are dead.

[dolittle]

I agree with you, I rate freedom as perhaps the most important human right.

I didn't "defend" Cuba because of its healthcare and education, I simply used them as examples of the pros as well as the cons, to get an accurate balanced & non-partisan viewpoint - something which a number of folk on this thread seem incapable of doing. The world ain't as black and white as you or they seem to think, nor as white and black as those subjected to communist propaganda seem to think.

 

Lets take cronyism, or more accurately nepotism, as an example.

I think we can agree that Castro's engineering his brother to be vice-President, and consequently to take over the reins, is an example of nepotism.

But of course no American president would ever appoint his brother to Attorney-General, would he.

Nor would there be any other family dynasties in US politics.

No Indian Prime Minister's wife would succeed him as Prime Minister.

And there was no Marcos dynasty in the Philippine government.

Or 5 members of the Churchill family in the UK parliament.

Here are some examples of cronyism, courtesy of Wiki, but I'd better forewarn you, they're not all communists ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism

 

Nepotism & cronyism are an unacceptable part of life. But they're not unique to lefties.

 

Please don't blindly suggest that education & healthcare aren't excellent in Cuba, because every resource will confirm that they are.

But then education ought to, because according to UNESCO 10% of its budget is spent on education, compared to 2% in the US & 4% in the UK.

And the ratio of doctors to population increased five-fold from the end of Batista's government - according to the World Bank only the US & the UK have a higher ratio. Infant mortality is lower than in the US, and Cuba's healthcare is free to all. Is that such a bad record?

 

Do those things make Cuba a better place to live than the US or UK?

Not for me they don't, but life for Cubans ain't all doom & gloom.

As I'm sure my impending cruise will confirm.

 

JB :)

There are so many things that are off base I will run out of space but here it goes . Everyone hates nepotism as far as U.S. political dynasties in my country and yours they have to run against some one ,they win and lose in both , how many Castros have lost in Cuba.To me it is a puzzle how a country could be strangled by the embargo and still have the best health care it would seem unlikley with all the modern machines they cannot afford.As far as your numbers 10% of Cuba's budget is far less than 2% of ours and 4%of yours.B.T.Y. there is no correlation (at least in th U.S.)money spent and how smart you are the worst schools in the U.S.spend about same and private (catholic schools)spend less and get more.It is trendy among many to think all countries are equal and it is just a matter of opinion and lets look at the good parts . I wonder would you have looked at the good parts of east Germany or Poland and been non -judgemental .It is not a fluke that people will do anything to get into the two great countrys we are lucky enough to live in. Have you ever noticed very few people went east over the Berlin wall or that know one gets on a raft in Florida and goes to Cuba.It may be obnoxious but it is so that most countries in this world are hell holes of poverty and repression and Cuba is one of them.People without judgement are people without standards.No one thinks life in Cuba is all doom and gloom they are a great and smart people I hope they will be able to join the modern world soon .

[Underwatr]

President does not have the power to change THis law. Congress will not be in a hurry to do that.

Republicans in both houses have said they will be introducing legislation to open up more US travel to Cuba.

[temple1]

Republicans in both houses have said they will be introducing legislation to open up more US travel to Cuba.

 

But not all are from Florida or planning to run for higher office in 2016. Some from mid western states are probably being encouraged by their constituents to make it much easier to trade with Cuba - especially big farma.

 

As a nation we have done many things over the years that we should be ashamed of - from the first European settlers on. We have conducted foreign policies since the early 1900's that have caused great turmoil around the world. To be the only nation participating in a 50+ year embargo against a small nation because we have issues that no one today is even able to articulate

"why Cuba?", it is time for our folks in DC to grow up and put an end to it.

 

For those who cannot get over Cuba's human rights issues - how well have we conducted ourselves in the "War against Terror?" How are our friends the Saudis doing with their routine beheadings? A lot of problems around the world and a lot of corrupt politicians. At home and abroad. Why single out one country for all that self rightousness?

 

I look forward to visiting Cuba, it sounds like a very different place from our father's Cuba, but worth checking out.

Edited December 19, 2014 by temple1

[John Bull]

I don't think either of us is going to be persuaded by the other, and we're heading way off the topic of cruising, so I'll answer as briefly as I can:

 

In all countries, incl. US & UK, some posts are un-elected appointments, so gerrymandering is widespread. In the UK it's called "the old boys network" & it affects both the public & private sectors.

Where elections are involved, voters choose a party rather than the individual so candidates need the backing of one of the major parties to have any chance. If my cousin the UK Prime Minister or your buddy the UK President wanted us in the Govt., they'd make us their party's candidate in "safe" seats. Easy.

 

Three people headed the Cuban revolution, the Castro brothers & Che Guevara. So with or without an election, it was probable that Raul or Che would replace Fidel. Che was disqualified partly because he was Argentinian but mainly because he was dead.

 

It's easy enough to spend a much bigger proportion on education & healthcare, instead of other sectors such as fighting foreign wars.

Agreed throwing money at something is no guarantee, but you do need to accept what the whole world is telling you about Cuban education & healthcare - no matter how contrary that is to your political beliefs.

 

I have always accepted that all countries are NOT equal, something which is surely obvious to all. But I've stressed that neither are they at one end of the spectrum, black or white.They are 50 shades of grey.

And I'd certainly agree that Poland pre- Lech Walesa, & East Germany pre-demolition of the wall, were way down at the dark grey end of the spectrum, hence the exoduses. Politically both are westernised now, but migration has continued for economic reasons - as will always be the case. Ergo that same one-way exodus from Mexico to the US, and from Algeria & Morocco to France & Spain. And since the enlargement of the EU the massive influx of post-communism eastern European migrants into particularly Germany & the UK, currently a political hot-potato with the potential to see the UK leave the EU. There's far more migration in the world for self-advancement than to avoid oppression.

 

Perhaps the tolerably cordial nature of our exchanges means the mods have over-looked how you & I in particular have strayed from "cruising". Each time I open the forum I wonder whether I'll have found this thread deleted for that reason, so lets not push our luck by continuing to shift each other from entrenched views. ;)

 

Many thanx to all those who've wished us well on our up-coming cruise, when I get back I'll do my best to give you the lowdown on the locals, the sights, the classic cars, Hemingway's bars, etc, and how the place has changed in the past 30 years.

 

JB :)

[csmjfmbe]

Hi, Mike.

Cashew's post got me thinking exactly the same thing.

We all want to visit unspoilt areas but of course by doing so we're all playing our part in spoiling them. Catch 22.

(Yes, Cashew, can't promise a full cruise review, but certainly our experiences in Havana)

 

We're aboard 6th Jan for two weeks. Cabin 5120 if you want to share a beer or two.

 

RollCall (of sorts) at

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2006448

 

JB :)

Hello JB

We arrive on the 13th so I can pick your brains about the ship over a beer or two.

Cheers

Mike

[Cashew14]

Hello JB

We arrive on the 13th so I can pick your brains about the ship over a beer or two.

Cheers

Mike

 

Looks like my alcohol consumption is rising regarding toasting across the pond. :cool:

[John Bull]

Hello JB

We arrive on the 13th so I can pick your brains about the ship over a beer or two.

Cheers

Mike

 

Yes, no worries, Mike,

 

We already have a similar arrangement with someone whose cruise starts the week before ours.

That will only cost me a pint. :)

 

If similar contractual terms are acceptable, the price is the same :)

Unless you also want the previous week's quiz answers, in which case the price goes up to a Pina Colada :D

 

Bell us, or nail a note to our cabin door.

Cabin 5120

 

See you on-board

 

JB :)