? About Luminae Construction on Equinox

[Project_gal]

Sorry. I'm not buying these "facts." The claim that somehow Celebrity will experience a meaningful downturn in its revenue because it's not able to renovate a restaurant while at sea is specious at best.

 

Clearly that, as the construction of the new restaurant is a surprise to you, you have not been aware of the facts. Celebrity really had to do something to retain their guest booking higher-end suites. The new suite restaurant, along with the rest of the new suite class perks, was a much needed improvement. I have read other threads where suite guests complain bitterly that Celebrity are not introducing the full package earlier than they are. As it is, it make the best sense to introduce the new suite restaurant during the final cruises of one season so that everything is bedded in for the start of the new season.

[wallie5446]

Ok ya'll, lighten up on Sean here. It is clear he is not happy with the thought of going on any cruise, and is only doing this one because his Wife is taking a class being offered on the ship.

 

It is clearly not where he would have liked for her to enrich her mind at. So he comes here to complain, instead of being frank and honest with her. No amount of conversation will help, she is in for a sad 'I told you so' 7 days.

Let it go.

[matt0148]

They have updated the online deck plans now to show Luminae.

[sportfishers]

Letter to guests sailing on Reflection: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=45534678&postcount=12

 

I have posted my thoughts on the Reflection Luminae Construction Feb 7 2015 thread:

 

I am dismayed that this degree of construction is taking place in a major public venue like the MDR during a sailing. This is another example of chasing revenue...this ship and the others undergoing conversion should be taken out of service for a quick trip to the boatyard and come back online with ALL improvements complete, 100% operational and ready to function exactly as advertised. This is such poor planning and shows total disregard for the comfort and enjoyment of all guests, suite and non-suite. Cruising in a construction zone does not resemble anything in their marketing materials...I expect to get away from that kind of activity when I'm living in my parallel universe, sailing on the high seas...I don't want to see it, hear it, smell it or know anything about it.

Hi Curt,

OK, so then I suggest they do this work during a planned dry dock and roll out the improvements ship by ship over an extended period of time. I am not a shareholder, but a paying customer and my expectation is to have a pleasant and uncomplicated cruise experience. This current scope of work is beyond a nuance and I have never experienced anything like this during any cruise, ever. This work is not a necessary repair or ongoing maintenance. Regarding hotels, most hotels give a heads up about construction during the booking process, whether it's on property or in the immediate vicinity. If my stay at a hotel is being disrupted by construction activity it's pretty easy for me to pick myself up and check in somewhere else. I really feel that this is an inconsiderate move on Celebrity's part and yes, you're right, it's all about revenue.

Julie

Celebrity is my preferred cruise line and I continue to sail with them; however, I am disappointed that they are making decisions that diminish the onboard experience. I think they can do better...and still make a nice profit. Suite passengers won't be getting the advertised experience; the dedicated kitchen will not be in place. I think this is very haphazard and thoughtless planning.

[cle-guy]

 

Celebrity is my preferred cruise line and I continue to sail with them; however, I am disappointed that they are making decisions that diminish the onboard experience. I think they can do better...and still make a nice profit. Suite passengers won't be getting the advertised experience; the dedicated kitchen will not be in place. I think this is very haphazard and thoughtless planning.

 

We don't even know that a dedicated kitchen is actually happening - we here on CC have said it has to happen (well, not WE as I personally don't see the need for a "dedicated" kitchen, but I'll digress on this issue). They have been doing test menus on ships as far back as August for this - I've done a kitchen tour and observed this when I asked what was happening. Suite perks don't officially start until April anyway, so any new benefit being offered before then is something EXTRA, even if it is the same MDR menu served in the new private location.

 

What is your suggestion they do better to make a nice profit, I've shown the mathematics relative to taking the ship out of service to do this which shows that's not a legitimate option, me and others have explained why phasing it in over several years over the fleet during scheduled dry-docks is not an option, so kindly offer a suggestion, rather than yet more rhetoric and opinion.

[blueboro]

I am a Celebrity loyalist but it just amazes me the number of kool-aid drinkers that, regardless of the situation, think Celebrity is never wrong and anyone who dares bring up an issue has some kind of axe to grind or really never wanted to cruise in the first place. Geez.

[cle-guy]

They have updated the online deck plans now to show Luminae.

 

Thanks for this!

 

Having reviewed the new Reflection deck plan,

• Suite Dining can seat 84 guests
  
• The Section of MDR opposite in the same space can seat 134
  
• Lost seating is 50 guests per fixed-dining seating
  

Not near as bad as originally thought.

Edited February 11, 2015 by cle-guy

[C 2 C]

I have a suggestion for the passenger...wait until boarding the ship, and see if there are any disruptions to their cruising experience. Preconceived attitudes and actions can only create undue anxiety. JMHO...

 

You need not be humble about that opinion...

 

How can one be upset before boarding about a situation that is not intrusive for the people who are enjoying the cruise right now?

[sportfishers]

Hi Curt,

 

I am a simple person. All of your facts and figures are very impressive and I appreciate the time you have devoted to supporting your opinion...sorry if I overlooked this, but have you accounted for the trades that are occupying staterooms and eating on board, or is all of this work being done in-house? RCL seems to be performing quite nicely, but maybe not good enough for you, and I understand that stockholders always want their stock to perform better. There are many ways to improve the bottom line and not all of them fall on the side of diminishing the customer experience. My opinion has not changed and I think that undertaking this scope of work is not a very classy move on Celebrity's part. Alternatively, they could arrange a wet dock in Miami or Ft. Lauderdale or other "home" port, mobilize ahead of time, knock out the COMPLETE job in one week or less, resume their schedule and provide the type of experience that they work so hard to create.

 

Julie

[cle-guy]

Hi Curt,

 

I am a simple person. All of your facts and figures are very impressive and I appreciate the time you have devoted to supporting your opinion...sorry if I overlooked this, but have you accounted for the trades that are occupying staterooms and eating on board, or is all of this work being done in-house? RCL seems to be performing quite nicely, but maybe not good enough for you, and I understand that stockholders always want their stock to perform better. There are many ways to improve the bottom line and not all of them fall on the side of diminishing the customer experience. My opinion has not changed and I think that undertaking this scope of work is not a very classy move on Celebrity's part. Alternatively, they could arrange a wet dock in Miami or Ft. Lauderdale or other "home" port, mobilize ahead of time, knock out the COMPLETE job in one week or less, resume their schedule and provide the type of experience that they work so hard to create.

 

Julie

 

A "wet" dock for a week would cost $3,500,000 in lost revenues. I don't think "keeping it "classy" is valued at $3,500,000. It would also incur costs of mooring etc., that certainly would be less than a drydock cost, but it wold come with cost. Handling at sea alleviates these expenses.

 

Assuming they brought trades on board, likely they have, there is cost to that and is certainly budgeted in the cost of installation versus the increased suite revenues they are seeing. And likely the trades are occupying standard cabins, thus removing from the paid "body count" on the ship and further alleviating stress on the MDR, as staff eat in Buffet. It costs only $12-$13 per person per day to feed people based on figures in the SEC filings, and that tradesmen are using Buffet not MDR, it's even less than that, so cost of feeding the tradesman is nearly non existent in the scheme of things ($12 x 20 guys x 14 days = $3,360). And as this season RCL is reporting lower than normal sales, in line with their prior forecasts many months ago, there are likely a few unoccupied cabins anyway, so the cost of housing is nearly nothing. To my estimation no more than 10 or 20 tradesmen need brought on for this, which equates to only 5 or 10 cabins used up, I feel confident in this relatively small number in that it is taking 2 weeks to do, versus a full on all hands on deck approach to do it over a few nights.

 

Similarly, there was cost to add BLU to M class ships (which was phased in during dry-docks, but the M class dry-docks all happened to be within about 2 years time of each other) and also BLU isn't driving the dramatically increased revenue for cabins that Suite Perks will be doing. My guess is they learned a lot doing the BLU retrofits that is lending itself to the decision to do these at sea rather than drydock, it's pretty much the exact same thing going on, carve out space in MDR, new carpet walls lighting and furniture.

 

It's certainly OK for people to get all worked up over this, but they should be reassured when presented with the reality of what;s being done. As people actually sailing the ship that is being retrofitted are reporting, it's hardly noticeable, and not harming their vacation in any way or "diminishing the customer experience". I respect the "opinions" of those experiencing it as much as I respect facts and figures, not so much opinions of those who are making problems up without being there. Yes there will be a very few people who may never cruise X again, but anyone who is not sailing on the affected cruses has no beef at all in this, it is a moot point for them, and a mot point for the vast majority sailgib ON the affected few cruises.

 

X is a for-profit business, bottom line, they are not a charity to give people everything they want without regard for the costs. They have worked hard the last couple years to increase revenues and profits, and even though there is all the moaning, whining and complain on these boards, the ships are sailing at capacity, and stock prices are more than double. So there's proof that for all the "i'll never sail again they stole my orange juice" there are an equal number of new people coming on willing to pay higher fares and incremental revenues to replace them. This makes the new folks good customer's the others bad customers not worth keeping around. For 2 years these board have been full of "over time, they will lose money", well it's still not happening, quite the opposite.

[JFontaine]

You need not be humble about that opinion...

 

How can one be upset before boarding about a situation that is not intrusive for the people who are enjoying the cruise right now?

 

Arno - you said you are having every dinner in a specialty restaurant at 6:30. Have you looked in on select dining at 7:00 or 7:30 to see if there are lines, or what the situation is once passengers are seated? Thanks

[Earthworm Jim]

...Factor in those guests who don't do MDR even though they have a seat waiting on them (i.e. specialties, buffet etc) there will still be empty, unused seats in the MDR. each night.

 

...The lost seats are in the fixed sections, where many seats go unused every night anyway, likely more than the net loss of seats.

 

But I'm not sure having a couple empty MDR seats at a table one or more nights because those pax ate at the buffet or a specialty restaurant really helps them. They can't really reassign those seats to anyone else, since those pax will, or at least may, be back the next night. For that matter they might just show up 25 minutes late that day, so their seats have to be kept open.

 

From a different post:

 

The letter issued by Celebrity stated that Fixed seating diners, and BLU diners would be unaffected.

 

In fairness, they didn't really say fixed (MDR) diners will be unaffected. they said those guest "will still be accommodated during their preferred dining time". But that doesn't necessarily mean the accommodations will be of the previous quality. Maybe the tables will be closer together, or the staff to diner ratio will get worse, or they'll have fewer small tables for those who prefer them.

 

Or maybe not. But it's premature to say the MDR is unaffected.

 

MDR guests will have more attention paid to them without all those pesky suite guests occupying their server's time.

 

Now that is rather far-fetched. Are you suggesting the elimination of suite guests from the MDR will improve the staff to diner ratio there? At best, it would remain unchanged. But it would not be at all surprising if more than the suite passengers' share of MDR waitstaff went with them in the move the Luminae.

 

Unless you just meant the staff to diner ratio will improve in the MDR during the actual construction. That could possibly be true, if they didn't decrease the normal amount of MDR waitstaff and have fewer MDR diners during construction. But I'd think some of that waitstaff might need to be reassigned to the specialty restaurants to cover the extra load from suite diners eating there during construction.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Earthworm Jim

[cle-guy]

But I'm not sure having a couple empty MDR seats at a table one or more nights because those pax ate at the buffet or a specialty restaurant really helps them. They can't really reassign those seats to anyone else, since those pax will, or at least may, be back the next night. For that matter they might just show up 25 minutes late that day, so their seats have to be kept open.

If you look at the MDR, you will see many fully open tables on any night. Many people book 2 and 4 tops, and dine together and will decide to dine elsewhere in a night. X only assigns MDR seating to a finite number of diners, as all have a seat assignment, Once the MDR fixed seats are full, they close off that inventory, and only sell Select dining, based on how many passengers there are. There are no "double booked" fixed dining seats. They can also tell with their computers which tables have signed up for specialty dining, so know in advance the bulk of passengers who won't be using their assigned seats in a night - the variable remains the last minute deciders and buffet eaters. I often hear dining room staff say things to the remaining table mates like "sir, I see tonight 6 of your table mates are dining elsewhere, would you like me to move you to a table for 2 this evening, or perhaps ask other diners if they would join you" so people don''t feel silly sitting at an 8 top with only 2 sitting there.

 

Bottom line, it's the Maitr'd's JOB to manage table inventory and seating, to ensure there is little stress to diners. He gets about $2 out of the daily gratuities for this service. That's a lot of money so I trust he does the job well to have the position.

 

So any effect will be felt on Select diners, and if there is a big deal there, they can just walk select diners downstairs to tables open after the 30 minute cut off, or tables known to be at Specialty restaurants. I trust the Dining room staff to be able to manage these rare instances of issues well, since the vast majority will be able to be seated in the same manner as they currently have been. Perhaps Maitr'e d can even ask tables with several open seats if they mind having other diners join them, when I travel in groups, we always consolidate our tables when others leave, leaving large tables, open, sometimes several 10 and 12 tops open. That people often argue they want MDR fixed seating to meet new people, why would they then not allow new people to join them. Clearly this won't work in all cases, but there are also plenty of folks who don't mind it, and it will only take a very small percentage of people to accept the offer for this to make to all work well.

 

I was on a charter cruise, with NO fixed seating, entire MDR was select dining, show up and be seated. Maitre'd asked if I wanted a private table or to join others, I always joined others, and met many great new people that way. It was a GREAT experience. I've taken time post cruise to visit 2 of thee table groups at their homes since that cruise.

 

 

Originally Posted by

cle-guy

MDR guests will have more attention paid to them without all those pesky suite guests occupying their server's time.

 

Now that is rather far-fetched. Are you suggesting the elimination of suite guests from the MDR will improve the staff to diner ratio there? At best, it would remain unchanged. But it would not be at all surprising if more than the suite passengers' share of MDR waitstaff went with them in the move the Luminae.

 

I'll admit this was stated rather tongue in cheek, as many posts seem more aimed at people not pleased with Suites getting more perks, if you follow multiple threads about the Suite Perks program. Thus the use of the word "pesky" in my comment :D

Edited February 11, 2015 by cle-guy

[sportfishers]

X is a for-profit business, bottom line, they are not a charity to give people everything they want without regard for the costs. They have worked hard the last couple years to increase revenues and profits, and even though there is all the moaning, whining and complain on these boards, the ships are sailing at capacity, and stock prices are more than double.

Passengers work just as hard for the money they spend on their cruise; for many this is a long-awaited, once-in-a-lifetime special vacation, especially falling around Valentine's Day. I am not currently on board either of these vessels but I do have empathy for anyone who would receive that letter in their stateroom and have their cruise disrupted or spoiled in any way by this construction activity. Having been a long-time and very satisfied Celebrity customer I was surprised to learn that they would choose to do this...this is not their normal modus operandi. The comfort and satisfaction of the guests on board is my primary concern and for any company to chase profit at all cost makes me think a little less of that company.

 

You can spin it any way you want, it is clear that we will never agree...but I do enjoy a lively debate.

[Earthworm Jim]

I often hear dining room staff say things to the remaining table mates like "sir, I see tonight 6 of your table mates are dining elsewhere, would you like me to move you to a table for 2 this evening...

 

I don't know what the pre-Luminae dining room plan looked like, but checking the new one on Summit the Cosmopolitan Restaurant has no tables for 2 at all on the lower level (Deck 4), and only 13 two tops on Deck 5. It would seem likely to me there would be at least 13 couples wanting their own table for each MDR seating, which would limit the staff's ability to relocate others to those tables for one night. But I'll defer to your much greater expertise that it does indeed happen.

 

Only 13 tables for 2 isn't not very comforting for those shy people among us that much prefer to be by ourselves rather than having to make small-talk with others each evening. I'm feeling a little discouraged about that.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Earthworm Jim

[Karynanne]

You need not be humble about that opinion...

 

How can one be upset before boarding about a situation that is not intrusive for the people who are enjoying the cruise right now?

 

Exactly. I just don't understand the personality of a passenger that isn't on the ship right now, and already complains about a situation that he/she hasn't experienced.

 

I can remember a cruise on an M-Class ship, quite a few years ago, where electrical re-wiring was being done throughout most of the public areas in the ceilings. They had these areas blocked off, and we walked around that affected area. We weren't informed...we weren't inconvienced...we weren't upset. We realized that major changes (in this case if I remember correctly...computer re-wiring) had to be done.

 

Now this may have upset some of the passengers. We didn't hear a word.

 

I guess I'm a "go with the flow" type of person. And a realist. Change occurs. It's constant. Either you adapt and enjoy yourself, or make your miserable and go into a situation upset.

 

You have a choice...

 

Karyn

[cle-guy]

I don't know what the pre-Luminae dining room plan looked like, but checking the new one on Summit the Cosmopolitan Restaurant has no tables for 2 at all on the lower level (Deck 4), and only 13 two tops on Deck 5. It would seem likely to me there would be at least 13 couples wanting their own table for each MDR seating, which would limit the staff's ability to relocate others to those tables for one night. But I'll defer to your much greater expertise that it does indeed happen.

 

Only 13 tables for 2 isn't not very comforting for those shy people among us that much prefer to be by ourselves rather than having to make small-talk with others each evening. I'm feeling a little discouraged about that.

 

The seat map changes cruise to cruise based on customer requests, the total number of seat remains relatively the same. Sometimes they make 10 tops 12 tops, sometimes they move 3 4 tops close to make a 10 top, sometimes they take 2 tables for 2 to make a table for 4. But total seats available remains the same.

 

They even change the table layouts between seatings based on needs, such as our large groups eating late tend to prefer large tables, so they move tables together. They have "fake table tops" that lay on top of smaller tables to make them go from 6 to 8 tops for example. You never know once a table cloth goes over top.

 

The banqette seating in BLU or SDR for example, the 2-tops just slide to the neighbors to become tables for 4, 6 or 8. MDR has no banqette seating, so all tables and chairs move as needed.

 

Stand around after an early seating and before late seating and watch the magic happen. it's well orchestrated and choreographed. Actually watch after the late seating as they refit for the next nights early diners too.

 

It's all very fluid, but the number of chairs remains relatively the same, the number of individual tables can change and why there is no set map of table numbers, as the numbers change as well, sometimes more table numbers sometimes less table numbers.

Edited February 11, 2015 by cle-guy

[Earthworm Jim]

Thanks for the info Curt.

[Celebrity Cruises]

It was not my preconception. Celebrity itself sounded the warning in its letter to passengers. Perhaps the renovations will turn out to be nothing, but when even the cruise line is hedging its bets, I believe that they should have erred on the side of doing the work in dry dock.

 

Hi there,

 

We want to address this. When we were made aware of these changes, we had a decision to make. Do we post this information - so that our guests can be made aware ahead of time, even if we don't have any issues, or do we not share this information in hopes that it doesn't become an issue.

 

We decided to post this information, because good or bad news, we think that we should give our passengers as much information so that they don't experience any surprises. Again, this isn't to cause stress or any headache, but to be a bit more transparent.

 

If we don't post, people will be upset. However, in this case, people may be upset about posting this news, even if it proves to be nothing more than a simple inconvenience for most passengers.

 

We will continue to try this approach in the future.

[RickT]

Hi there,

 

We want to address this. When we were made aware of these changes, we had a decision to make. Do we post this information - so that our guests can be made aware ahead of time, even if we don't have any issues, or do we not share this information in hopes that it doesn't become an issue.

 

We decided to post this information, because good or bad news, we think that we should give our passengers as much information so that they don't experience any surprises. Again, this isn't to cause stress or any headache, but to be a bit more transparent.

 

If we don't post, people will be upset. However, in this case, people may be upset about posting this news, even if it proves to be nothing more than a simple inconvenience for most passengers.

 

We will continue to try this approach in the future.

 

I for one thank you for posting this information. The only request I would have is to try and provide as much information as possible including plans by Celebrity to deal with any known issues caused by this.

 

I'm on the Equinox in a little over 3 weeks and assume the construction will be complete. I personally wasn't too concerned about this even if I was lucky enough to be boarding sooner.

 

Thanks for all your posts/responses and feedback. Nice to see Celebrity is keeping an eye on things even if it's unfortunate that you can't please everyone (the advance notice in tip % thread for example).

[JFontaine]

Hi there,

 

We want to address this. When we were made aware of these changes, we had a decision to make. Do we post this information - so that our guests can be made aware ahead of time, even if we don't have any issues, or do we not share this information in hopes that it doesn't become an issue.

 

We decided to post this information, because good or bad news, we think that we should give our passengers as much information so that they don't experience any surprises. Again, this isn't to cause stress or any headache, but to be a bit more transparent.

 

If we don't post, people will be upset. However, in this case, people may be upset about posting this news, even if it proves to be nothing more than a simple inconvenience for most passengers.

 

We will continue to try this approach in the future.

 

Were you made aware of these changes prior to when a cruiser started this thread, because clearly Celebrity has been planning this for many months? True transparency would have been to tell us about this (here, on your website and through the travel agents) as soon as Celebrity made the construction schedule - so that the passengers could have made a choice about their vacation.

 

My issue isn't with you (whoever is posting from Celebrity Cruises, so no offense is intended) - my issue is with the timeliness of the communications.

[Oxo]

Hi there,

 

We want to address this. When we were made aware of these changes, we had a decision to make. Do we post this information - so that our guests can be made aware ahead of time, even if we don't have any issues, or do we not share this information in hopes that it doesn't become an issue.

 

We decided to post this information, because good or bad news, we think that we should give our passengers as much information so that they don't experience any surprises. Again, this isn't to cause stress or any headache, but to be a bit more transparent.

 

If we don't post, people will be upset. However, in this case, people may be upset about posting this news, even if it proves to be nothing more than a simple inconvenience for most passengers.

 

We will continue to try this approach in the future.

Thank you for taking the time to post this. Can you post a current schedule of what ships are being worked on now and the completion date of those that are being worked on now. Thank you!

We are on the Equinox 2/23/15.

[Celebrity Cruises]

Were you made aware of these changes prior to when a cruiser started this thread, because clearly Celebrity has been planning this for many months? True transparency would have been to tell us about this (here, on your website and through the travel agents) as soon as Celebrity made the construction schedule - so that the passengers could have made a choice about their vacation.

 

My issue isn't with you (whoever is posting from Celebrity Cruises, so no offense is intended) - my issue is with the timeliness of the communications.

 

Hi there,

 

Good question. We will for the most part always have an advance on some of this information. To answer your question, we posted within a week of having the necessary information that we felt was enough to tell what was happening. Our goal is to post as soon as we are able to, similar to the gratuity thread.

[Celebrity Cruises]

Thank you for taking the time to post this. Can you post a current schedule of what ships are being worked on now and the completion date of those that are being worked on now. Thank you!

We are on the Equinox 2/23/15.

 

Hi there,

 

Everything is going smoothly as of this time, and we have no reason to believe that the April dates will not be met for the opening of Luminae.

 

We recently posted the dates of construction per ship:

 

On 2/8, Reflection, Solstice, and Silhouette construction will start. Equinox started this week, and will continue.

 

On 3/1, Millennium, and Infinity construction will begin.

 

On 3/7, Constellation, and Summit construction will begin.

 

On 4/1, Eclipse construction will begin.

[cle-guy]

I boarded Summit the week after the drawings for Luminae were first published. I asked the Michael's' Club Concierge about the installation process, and she said that they had only the day before received the drawings, (we had them here on Crusie Critic a week prior) and did not yet at that time have any idea about an installation schedule. I even showed her how they had already been published to the Celebrity web site.

 

This was January 24 when i boarded. If anyone on the ship would know, certainly they would have let the Michael's Club Concierge (Suite Concierge) know, so I believe that the plans ramped up relatively quickly within the last month or so.