Luminae - lunch

[gcgold]

Perhaps the (much) bigger risk is if the news media or shows like 60 minutes or its equivalent start to focus on any of the unilateral decisions made by cruise companies...not necessarily limited to celebrity perhaps. No contract involved....just accurate reporting. That's also the consumer advocate getting involved issue. Lawyers never think of that potential problem...and consumers do turn to those folks if they feel something is questionable.

 

There are different situations, of course, but the risk is that someone, someone's brother or child is a producer for a "consumer advocate" show...or a newspaper with an investigative reporter....and they feel slighted, cheated, etc.

 

I'm not trying to prolong this discussion, but those who cling to "celebrity can do anything they want at any time" with impunity should think about the larger picture....the social media, media in general which are far more damaging (and helpful) with no legal or arbitration costs.

 

The net is that companies should try to do the right thing because reputation and public opinion are not regulatable the way contracts are

.

 

 

indeed.

 

One thing said here I would have a slight issue with is the remark about lawyers. Lawyers that I know (and know very, very well ) would always advocate using all procedures and avenues of complaint before litigation. In the event , unlikely as a norm, that it ends up in a Court of Law then demonstrating that one has exhausted all reasonable avenues open to them puts the complainant in a strong position. If the poster was referring to the lawyers acting for the cruise line then perhaps that could be the case , but I would be surprised.

Edited June 5, 2015 by gcgold

[gcgold]

In the UK, there is a recognized complaints procedure. Similarly, here in the US, it would be difficult to get a court to take up a law suite until the arbitration process required by the cruise contract is complete. Complaint procedures in the UK and US arbitration procedures are probably different but in neither case can one just 'file a lawsuit'.

 

I would not consider it to be presumptions to tell someone to read their contract. Every one should read and understand the contract prior to placing a deposit. Telling someone to read the contract prior to filing a law suit is good advice regardless of the country of origin. Very difficult to go to court unless one is sure of what they have agreed to and to what they are entitled.

 

 

perhaps the Contract itself isn't that important. Who would have thought that a norovirus outbreak on a ship could result in compensation for curtailment ! http://m.travelweekly.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=54387.

 

The other threads about changing Caribbean itineraries after non-refundable deposits paid could be buzzing now [emoji41]

Edited June 5, 2015 by gcgold

[RocketMan275]

perhaps the Contract itself isn't that important. Who would have thought that a norovirus outbreak on a ship could result in compensation for curtailment ! http://m.travelweekly.co.uk/Article.aspx?cat=news&id=54387.

 

The other threads about changing Caribbean itineraries after non-refundable deposits paid could be buzzing now [emoji41]

 

If the outbreak is bad enough, then compensation is justified. However, only losing a single day would be considered 'minor' in Celbrity's UK/EU contract and would not force compensation. But, that is the key point. Fred Olsen is doing this voluntarily and is not being forced to do so by the UK/EU.

 

Lots of similarities between this thread on lunch in a suites only restaurant, the five euro bus ride, and the cancelled port in the Caribbean. Lot's of entitled folks.

[gcgold]

If the outbreak is bad enough, then compensation is justified. However, only losing a single day would be considered 'minor' in Celbrity's UK/EU contract and would not force compensation. But, that is the key point. Fred Olsen is doing this voluntarily and is not being forced to do so by the UK/EU.

 

 

 

Lots of similarities between this thread on lunch in a suites only restaurant, the five euro bus ride, and the cancelled port in the Caribbean. Lot's of entitled folks.

 

 

I do not wish to get too technical here but in UK / Euro legislation the cruise line terms and conditions are not the 'contract' merely a part thereof.

 

I am sure Fred Olsen's T's & C'. are very similar to Celebrity's. Equally sure of their limitations . Whilst strictly correct that FO have not been 'forced' to pay compensation , surely the word voluntarily is stretching things ?

 

the reason why the FO case is referenced is to demonstrate that the Cruise Lines cannot ignore Consumer rights to fair treatment, irrespective of the line's T's & C's.

 

Personally I find it rather strange the Cruise line is held responsible in the noro circumstances, but I am not privy to all the details.

 

I find it odd that the champions of UK consumer rights on these boards are derided by those who do not enjoy the same privileges. The UK / Europeans pay a significant surcharge for the same cruise so sometimes it works for you sometimes not.

 

I love Irony .

 

Our 2016 Caribbean cruise is booked via a USA TA . This was to save significant costs . Managed to obtain excellent transatlantic flight prices. Happy days[emoji41]

 

CelX now make big changes to itinerary & I am 'snookered' Personally am amused by being 'hoisted by my own petard'.

 

Incidentally whilst the legal firm detailed in the FO article are an extremely reputable practice , 'others ' are also available [emoji33]

Edited June 5, 2015 by gcgold

[ghstudio]

 

Our 2016 Caribbean cruise is booked via a USA TA . This was to save significant costs . Managed to obtain excellent transatlantic flight prices. Happy days

 

CelX now make big changes to itinerary & I am 'snookered' Personally am amused by being 'hoisted by my own petard'.

 

au contraire...since you booked with a USA TA, you should be able cancel without any penalty....unlike those who booked with a UK TA.

 

I think your petard is very safe :)

[Ma Bell]

I do not wish to get too technical here but in UK / Euro legislation the cruise line terms and conditions are not the 'contract' merely a part thereof.

 

I am sure Fred Olsen's T's & C'. are very similar to Celebrity's. Equally sure of their limitations . Whilst strictly correct that FO have not been 'forced' to pay compensation , surely the word voluntarily is stretching things ?

 

the reason why the FO case is referenced is to demonstrate that the Cruise Lines cannot ignore Consumer rights to fair treatment, irrespective of the line's T's & C's.

 

Personally I find it rather strange the Cruise line is held responsible in the noro circumstances, but I am not privy to all the details.

 

I find it odd that the champions of UK consumer rights on these boards are derided by those who do not enjoy the same privileges. The UK / Europeans pay a significant surcharge for the same cruise so sometimes it works for you sometimes not.

 

I love Irony .

 

Our 2016 Caribbean cruise is booked via a USA TA . This was to save significant costs . Managed to obtain excellent transatlantic flight prices. Happy days[emoji41]

 

CelX now make big changes to itinerary & I am 'snookered' Personally am amused by being 'hoisted by my own petard'.

 

Incidentally whilst the legal firm detailed in the FO article are an extremely reputable practice , 'others ' are also available [emoji33]

 

I don't think anyone derides your consumer rights at all, just that there is a difference in levels of what one may consider a grievous abuse of them. This thread has nothing to do with changing itineraries or norovirus or any of a number of other subjects. It's a new dining program...and lunch we've been discussing.

[gcgold]

au contraire...since you booked with a USA TA, you should be able cancel without any penalty....unlike those who booked with a UK TA.

 

 

 

I think your petard is very safe :)

 

 

if the cruise is the petard what is the non-refundable airfare haha .

 

No great alternatives and will probably go on the cruise laughing about the 'petard' [emoji41]

[gcgold]

I don't think anyone derides your consumer rights at all, just that there is a difference in levels of what one may consider a grievous abuse of them. This thread has nothing to do with changing itineraries or norovirus or any of a number of other subjects. It's a new dining program...and lunch we've been discussing.

 

 

well that may be your understanding.

 

To us it is whether Celebrity ( mainly UK) sold us something that they may or may not deliver.

 

The comparisons to Novovirus were made to demonstrate the extent of the UK / Euro legislation. I am impressed that the legal firm quoted in the article persuaded Fred Olsen to 'see the light' so to speak.

 

Other legal firms are also available [emoji12]

 

Many non europeans will be surprised that the Cruise line can, apparently be held responsible in the case of such an outbreak. Whether this is fair / moral etc is subjective( and personally & IMHO is stretching things a tad [emoji32])

 

The one thing clear is that the North American version of ' contracts' and the UK version are very different.

 

It is similar to the tipping culture divide. I am an unashamed non-tipper and from previous posts you appear to be a fully paid-up member of the tipping brotherhood.

 

Neither of us are right or wrong in our opinions, and it is wonderful that we can express them freely.

Edited June 5, 2015 by gcgold

[Karynanne]

well that may be your understanding.

 

To us it is whether Celebrity ( mainly UK) sold us something that they may or may not deliver.

 

The comparisons to Novovirus were made to demonstrate the extent of the UK / Euro legislation. I am impressed that the legal firm quoted in the article persuaded Fred Olsen to 'see the light' so to speak.

 

Other legal firms are also available [emoji12]

 

Many non europeans will be surprised that the Cruise line can, apparently be held responsible in the case of such an outbreak. Whether this is fair / moral etc is subjective( and personally & IMHO is stretching things a tad [emoji32])

 

The one thing clear is that the North American version of ' contracts' and the UK version are very different.

 

It is similar to the tipping culture divide. I am an unashamed non-tipper and from previous posts you appear to be a fully paid-up member of the tipping brotherhood.

 

Neither of us are right or wrong in our opinions, and it is wonderful that we can express them freely.

 

 

What does this have to do with Lunch in Luminae? Do you feel if lunch isn't offered everyday, you will seek litigation?

Edited June 5, 2015 by Karynanne

[gcgold]

What does this have to do with Lunch in Luminae? Do you feel if lunch isn't offered everyday, you will seek litigation?

 

 

i would suggest you read some previous posts and try and open one's mind to other views .

[ghstudio]

What does this have to do with Lunch in Luminae? Do you feel if lunch isn't offered everyday, you will seek litigation?

 

Let's all start with agreeing with Celebrity marketing's assertion when announced, Luminae was going to serve breakfast, brunch/lunch and dinner....three meals a day. That has changed at least on some ships, on some cruises....irrespective of "Celebrity cruises" statement here that irrespective of the way things started, Luminae is now going to serve three meals a day....various reports of phone calls reinforcing that statement and so on.

 

Some are OK with two meals a day or three on some, two on others...but some other folks are not happy that they aren't getting what they thought they were buying.

 

So that got this topic on the legalese in the contract where celebrity can do anything they want and the discussion that, not so fast, the UK has consumer protection laws.

 

Each person will do what they feel they need to do. Some will shrug it off..."any day at sea is a good day" and others will feel that Celebrity should compensate them in some way. Whether that results in litigation, arbitration, negative internet posts or through some consumer advocate, social media (or 60 minutes type program)...that's up to them. Those in the UK have different laws which some in the US just don't acknowledge or don't understand. I suppose everyone thinks their position is correct.

 

let's agree that there are two sides to this issue....stop trying to tell the other side they are wrong....and move on.

 

Let's also agree that there is no consistency across celebrity ships and cruises on this issue.....and there's no consistency from Celebrity on how many meals will be served when on their ships...and there's no consistency in Celebrity's communnications.

 

Sadly...that last paragraph sums up the reason for this and many other threads on cruise critic....and the view that cruise critic or some posters are often negative on issues

Edited June 6, 2015 by ghstudio

[Ma Bell]

Let's all start with agreeing with Celebrity marketing's assertion when announced, Luminae was going to serve breakfast, brunch/lunch and dinner....three meals a day. That has changed at least on some ships, on some cruises....irrespective of "Celebrity cruises" statement here that irrespective of the way things started, Luminae is now going to serve three meals a day....various reports of phone calls reinforcing that statement and so on.

 

Some are OK with two meals a day or three on some, two on others...but some other folks are not happy that they aren't getting what they thought they were buying.

 

So that got this topic on the legalese in the contract where celebrity can do anything they want and the discussion that, not so fast, the UK has consumer protection laws.

 

Each person will do what they feel they need to do. Some will shrug it off..."any day at sea is a good day" and others will feel that Celebrity should compensate them in some way. Whether that results in litigation, arbitration, negative internet posts or through some consumer advocate, social media (or 60 minutes type program)...that's up to them. Those in the UK have different laws which some in the US just don't acknowledge or don't understand. I suppose everyone thinks their position is correct.

 

let's agree that there are two sides to this issue....stop trying to tell the other side they are wrong....and move on.

 

Let's also agree that there is no consistency across celebrity ships and cruises on this issue.....and there's no consistency from Celebrity on how many meals will be served when on their ships...and there's no consistency in Celebrity's communnications.

 

Sadly...that last paragraph sums up the reason for this and many other threads on cruise critic....and the view that cruise critic or some posters are often negative on issues

 

Funny thing is no one ever said Celebrity can do anything they want and all the other exaggerations are your interpretation of the issue. The discussion is about lunch in Luminae. Some want to make it more than that but that's another topic. Frankly, the idea that someone would call a consumer group, expect compensation or take legal action about something that they have not even experienced is a bit over the top.

 

As far as reading and understanding your contract, it's always a good idea wherever you're from. I'm sure most of us are well aware that the UK has different protections and we're not ignorant although it's obvious that some seem to think so. I think we're also aware that there still has to be a certain level of harm to a consumer for them to apply.

 

As I said before, it's usually a good idea to have some true experience on a subject before crying foul.

[Pushka]

After checking the price of Suites compared with even Aqua cabins, I would expect to have the choice of getting what was advertised.

[richsea]

Mmmmmm,16 pages about lunch. Is Celebrity trying to starve these poor people? And so many attorneys! Who knew?:confused:

[need2bespoiled]

I've been sailing on Celebrity ships since 1994 and there have always been inconsistencies, just as there are in hotel chains. If you notice, everything posted on the website gives general information with the disclaimer that your daily program will be your guide.

 

Yes, they should try their best to keep things consistent, but there are different Captains, Hotel Directors and Food and Beverage Managers who occasionally do things a bit differently depending on what is happening on a daily basis and what the passenger mix is dictating. For example, there are times when they made need some people for a particular group event or there may be a port where it is relatively sure that people will not be staying on board where they need to have some flexibility. There are differences in itineraries and ship board activities that change the need for staff participation. The idea that each ship needs to be an exact carbon copy of another is just not very realistic or desirable as far as I'm concerned.

 

Well put. I wouldn't expect two Marriotts or two Ws to be the same, why should to ships?

 

I've received different responses to my question as to whether or not the lunch menu changes daily.

Are there two menus which alternate daily, or is there a fourteen day menu as there is allegedly for dinner.

Now it seems like there are days on some ships that don't offer lunch on a daily basis, and if they do it's during a one hour window that ends at 1:00pm ( what's up with that? ). I thought lunch now officially lasted until 1:30, though it should be 2:00

One of the things I dislike about Blu is the arbitrary early end to breakfast service on many days...(9:00am).

 

If you look for Sue's post, she's posted 14 different dinner menues It's not allegedly that they exist, they most certainly do.

 

 

SNIP

 

Our hope was that eventually BLU would be reserved for AQ guests exclusively for dinner, thus eliminating any possible confusion about how suite guests are admitted on a space available basis.. On the best menu nights it can get crowded and confusing ...as each ship sets its own way to work it out.

 

With limited breakfast hrs and the dinner menu getting mid range reviews, it seems more suite guests will be coming to BLU for breakfast and for dinner regulary or on best menu nights..

 

hopeful they will eventually get that special place and leave BLU less congested at peak times.....once it is working well we may splurge on the suite experience unless we move up to Azamara...

 

You can hope for this all you want, but it's not going to happen. They are continually going to give those spending the most on their cabins the "run of the ship" for the foreseeable future.

 

As a suite (Celebrity suite) guest, what in room benefits should I ask for? I know they deliver afternoon "snacks" and always have ordered breakfast and coffee in the morning, but what else have you requested and received? I would like not to have the generic afternoon snacks, but be able to customize it to our tastes.

What are your experiences in asking for a little customization?

 

Ask for whatever you want, or like, or wish for, and you'll likely get it. Our standard requests are alternating cheese and crackers and shrimp cocktail, so we don't get bored. Some days we ask for both. On our last cruise, my partner got turned on to scones (with cream and jam) and tea every afternoon, and so it appeared. Figure out what YOU want and will make YOUR cruise special, and your butler will likely make it happen, just don't expect them to read your mind.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

Edited June 6, 2015 by need2bespoiled

[Project_gal]

How on earth has this thread deteriorated into discussions of consumer law, arbitration, law suits, etc?

 

Luminae and Suite Class are in their early days. Celebrity are still eagerly seeking feedback on the experience. Guests should be putting their energies into making constructive written feedback to Celebrity.

 

I know. I sent an email following our latest cruise. The UK office forward it to Miami. Someone from Miami rang me to thank me for my feedback [which she had clearly read] and let me know that it was on the agenda for the Food & Beverage Department meeting the next morning.

[Karynanne]

How on earth has this thread deteriorated into discussions of consumer law, arbitration, law suits, etc?

 

 

 

Luminae and Suite Class are in their early days. Celebrity are still eagerly seeking feedback on the experience. Guests should be putting their energies into making constructive written feedback to Celebrity.

 

 

 

I know. I sent an email following our latest cruise. The UK office forward it to Miami. Someone from Miami rang me to thank me for my feedback [which she had clearly read] and let me know that it was on the agenda for the Food & Beverage Department meeting the next morning.

 

 

Constructive critiques (emphasis on constructive) are well received within the Celebrity administration.

 

I have found that Celebrity does listen to common- sensed criticisms, and will correct an issue, if needed.

[need2bespoiled]

How on earth has this thread deteriorated into discussions of consumer law, arbitration, law suits, etc?

 

Luminae and Suite Class are in their early days. Celebrity are still eagerly seeking feedback on the experience. Guests should be putting their energies into making constructive written feedback to Celebrity.

 

I know. I sent an email following our latest cruise. The UK office forward it to Miami. Someone from Miami rang me to thank me for my feedback [which she had clearly read] and let me know that it was on the agenda for the Food & Beverage Department meeting the next morning.

 

"Cruise Critic" ?

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[MicCanberra]

Constructive critiques (emphasis on constructive) are well received within the Celebrity administration.

 

I have found that Celebrity does listen to common- sensed criticisms, and will correct an issue, if needed.

 

That is good to know, too bad there is a lot of criticism but not a lot that is constructive. Perhaps CC should change their name or does the shoe fit?:(

[gcgold]

just off Reflection

Luminae provided 3 meals per day every day including embarkation day , as promised in the UK

 

Only had 1 of each meal on different days. Frankly it is simply an overhype IMHO.

 

Beautiful room , attentive staff, very good quality crockery and cutlery .

 

Food same as MDR but a very limited choice . Food quality very good same as MDR.

 

a bit like the famous Shakespeare play IMHO [emoji12]

[DYKWIA]

Well put. I wouldn't expect two Marriotts or two Ws to be the same, why should to ships?

 

 

 

...

 

These hotel companies run 100s (possibly 1000s of hotels around the globe) compared with Celebrity running about 10 ships.

 

The individual hotel will usually each have their own web site stating the services offered at that specific hotel (including in many cases the hours of the operations, which of course vary according to local circumstances). To the best of my knowledge they don't pretend to offer the same experience and services across all outlets, Celebrity does appear to.

 

If Celebrity finds it necessary to alter or tailor the precise experience on a cruise by cruise basis why not simply spell out the important changes to the standard product on the itinerary details before booking is completed.

Edited June 22, 2015 by DYKWIA

[DYKWIA]

just off Reflection

Luminae provided 3 meals per day every day including embarkation day , as promised in the UK

 

Only had 1 of each meal on different days. Frankly it is simply an overhype IMHO.

 

Beautiful room , attentive staff, very good quality crockery and cutlery .

 

Food same as MDR but a very limited choice . Food quality very good same as MDR.

 

a bit like the famous Shakespeare play IMHO [emoji12]

 

Never seen a Julius Caesar Salad or Shrew in the MDR, and I wouldn't eat any part of a Coriol let alone its... any way all's well that ends well. Glad it wasn't a comedy of errors.

 

Don't understand why Celebrity didn't do a soft opening on Luminae - charge a slightly lower price to start with and admit "it's a work in progress". Sounds like they didn't do enough market research beforehand,

[gcgold]

Never seen a Julius Caesar Salad or Shrew in the MDR, and I wouldn't eat any part of a Coriol let alone its... any way all's well that ends well. Glad it wasn't a comedy of errors.

 

 

 

Don't understand why Celebrity didn't do a soft opening on Luminae - charge a slightly lower price to start with and admit "it's a work in progress". Sounds like they didn't do enough market research beforehand,

 

 

Much Ado About Nothing [emoji12].

[emoji33][emoji12][emoji636]

[Karynanne]

Never seen a Julius Caesar Salad or Shrew in the MDR, and I wouldn't eat any part of a Coriol let alone its... any way all's well that ends well. Glad it wasn't a comedy of errors.

 

Don't understand why Celebrity didn't do a soft opening on Luminae - charge a slightly lower price to start with and admit "it's a work in progress". Sounds like they didn't do enough market research beforehand,

 

Celebrity DID do soft openings on their ships. We were on Reflection...the 2nd week that Luminae had been open, and they weren't serving three meals a day. We were told that it would take a few more weeks to be fully operational and serving three meals daily.

 

As far as charging a lower price? There is no additional fee. All Suites use this venue.

[DYKWIA]

C

As far as charging a lower price? There is no additional fee. All Suites use this venue.

 

I meant, did they offer the suites at a promotional price because Luminae was in soft opening / work in progress?

 

Was it clear to those people that had booked it was in soft opening?